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United Plans New Order For 150 Jets  
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35895 times:

At long last ...

Link here

298 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35887 times:

Long time coming for UA. Now we can speculate as to who will win the competition.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15747 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35867 times:

Sounds like yet another round of A350 vs. 787.  box 

I don't know what they are looking at to replace the 757s. I would have to think that it is between the 737 and A320 series (probably 321). I'd give the 321 the advantage there due to commonality and it probably could do the West Coast to Hawaii flights. I don't see any 757s getting replaced with widebodies since UA does not fly them to Europe, but we can always hope.

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35829 times:

Hmm...I'm guessing A321s and 787s. The real battle will be between the 787 and 350 with Boeing pitching the 747-8 in the mix.

Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35657 times:

A321s are a given, to take over the routes the 757 is overbuilt for.

I find the A380 unlikely. Not sure if UA will buy any more VLAs right now, even if they start retiring 744s. They might simply choose the A350 to cover 280-350 seats. But I'm also pretty sure they have access to earlier 787s than other carriers, and could combine a 787+748 order if the price is right.

Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineArabAirX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35632 times:

Who cares what they intend to order - its the battle for financing this pipedream that will be the most interesting aspect.

I'd expect the Chinese lenders to step in like they have done for other deals for European airlines.

Quite why they'd want to fund UAL's misadventure is another debate altogether.

User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35570 times:

How about the 739ERs instead of the A321s, to be inline with CO?

The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35526 times:

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 6):
How about the 739ERs instead of the A321s, to be inline with CO?

US flies A319s and A320s. They do not fly 737NG. A321s are a given, unless of course Airbus realizes this and refuses to give a discount, but I doubt they would do that to UA, especially since they will also be trying to sell A350s and A380s.

Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6769 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35496 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
I'd give the 321 the advantage there due to commonality and it probably could do the West Coast to Hawaii flights.

Actually, I don't believe the A321 has the range for Hawaii. The 739ER does have the range (and CO will be using it). But United has some relatively new 757's that could be kept around if needed, so that's not a deal-breaker. I'd still give the edge to Airbus here given the A320s & A319s in the fleet.

User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 35361 times:

From my arm-chair:

747-400 to be replaced by both 747-8 and 777-300ER
767-300 to be replaced by 787
757 to replaced by 787 or 321
All their 777s are still relatively new compared to others in UA's fleet. If replacement is considered then the 787 vs 350


Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19738 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34999 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
A321s are a given, to take over the routes the 757 is overbuilt for.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 8):

Actually, I don't believe the A321 has the range for Hawaii. The 739ER does have the range (and CO will be using it).

The A321 doesn't have the range to reliably do JFK-SFO in the winter, either. Not if you have to fly up over North Dakota. That can turn into a 7-hour flight (I should know; I was on a VS A319 for 7 hours on that flight...all seven hours in the air with no holding patterns).

The 739ER does. As does the 738 and the 73G.

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3357 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34885 times:

Couldn't they pop a domestic-configured 787 on the route? It's a given that there's no one aircraft that's as versatile as the 757.

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34867 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
US flies A319s and A320s.

I think you mean UA.  Wink  duck 

Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10899 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34752 times:

Quoting ArabAirX (Reply 5):

This was also what I was wondering about. How are they going to finance this right in the middle of their cost cutting program where you hardly get a blanket and food on the flights, cf. my last experience with them on my mileage run to Buenos Aires via IAD.

Any chance they strike a deal and announce it during the Paris Air Show?
Both manufacturers would be very happy. It would give them more publicity.
They like closing deals during air shows.

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34754 times:

Damn I'd sure love to see 737-900ER as well as the other model in UA colors. This could defenitly be Boeings big break for additional 747-8i orders. Ever see UA bringing back United Cargo with 5-10 converted 767-300ER's or is there no money in cargo?

Desmond in ILM,

Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34749 times:

I will weigh my guess in here..

UA and CO are getting very comfortable with each other. United is retiring all of it's Boeing narrowbody aircraft and some Airbus. United has all Boeing widebody aircraft. So who do I give it to?

I can see United continuing their Boeing widebody tradition. I believe the reason they went Airbus before was because Boeing did not offer them what they were looking for at the time. I can see the widebody being the following to replace the 767, 777..


I can see the 757 replacement being the following...

737-900 (see CO)

I can see the narrowbody being the following to replace the 737-300, 737-500, 319, 320...

737-800 (see CO)

I think I read somewhere above that the UA-US would lead to Airbus, but that tie is VERY loose compared to the UA-CO tie. I think perhaps they would be looking at bettering themselves for the potential merger.

Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34741 times:

With what money are they going to buy new airplanes with?

Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15747 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34653 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Any chance they strike a deal and announce it during the Paris Air Show?

I doubt it. The article made it sound like UA was just starting to shop. I would think that any resulting order is months rather than weeks away. This could also be part of the answer to how they will pay for them. By the time they are ready to order the planes they could be in a decent, or at least less bad, financial position and credit may be easier to obtain at that time. Also, if I'm not mistaken, financing arrangements (other than a deposit and progress payments) do not need to be finalized until delivery.

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10899 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 34654 times:

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 16):

Would Continental be able to come up with some of the money for buying the new aircrafts?

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 34627 times:

With the way UA has been cutting mainline, I figured the bidders would be Embraer and Canadair not Boeing and Airbus.

User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 34607 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
This was also what I was wondering about. How are they going to finance this right in the middle of their cost cutting program where you hardly get a blanket and food on the flights, cf. my last experience with them on my mileage run to Buenos Aires via IAD.

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 16):
With what money are they going to buy new airplanes with?

There are still a lot of banks who are giving credits. Credits are not as cheap as 2 years ago, but still possible to get.
In addition, government export credit vehicles has got a lot of funds in order to stimulate businesses.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Any chance they strike a deal and announce it during the Paris Air Show?

To early to strike a deal at Paris Air Show.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8568 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 34605 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Any chance they strike a deal and announce it during the Paris Air Show?

the article linked by the op says that an order could come by autumn ('fall' in American usage ) - so very unlikely to be in time for the Paris Air Show

...United could sign a major order as early as the fall , the newspaper notes, if Boeing or Airbus agree to certain conditions ...

[Edited 2009-06-04 00:26:16]

Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15747 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 34589 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Would Continental be able to come up with some of the money for buying the new aircrafts?

Probably, but I am not convinced that this order will be affected based on whether or not there is a merger with CO. Though the order may not come soon, I think that any merger would happen later on. Then again there could be a surprise in the works, but if I were UA I would pick the best planes for UA and cross the merger bridge when I come to it.

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 34543 times:

If Airbus win this contest I would imagine UA's fleet eventually becoming
300x A320 family aircraft
120x A350 family aircraft

2 Aircraft types and 420 aircraft... airbus may need to increase the range of the A321 slightly for JFK-SFO year round with reserves... perhaps a GTF A320 family will achieve this???
Dont be surprised what manufacturers will do to with this order.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15747 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 34519 times:

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 23):
300x A320 family aircraft

Could UA find themselves in a corner if they do not hold out for whatever Airbus and Boeing will offer to replace the A320 and 737 as some other airlines seem to be doing?

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Pyrex : Given the likelihood that airlines will end up on the government trough sometime soon I wouldn't be surprised to see UA order Boeing just to please th
26 Etoile : The article states it is a winner-take-all contest. If UA abides by that, then, in view of the impending CO integration, Airbus has a slight advantage
27 HNL-Jack : I think it is possible that the relationship with LH may just as important, or perhaps even more so than the relationship with CO. And, in the Pacific
28 BMI727 : I really hope that UA management has enough stones to not fall for that crap. CO is a loyal Boeing customer, and gets preferential treatment from the
29 Mir : The 321 doesn't really have the legs for West Coast to Hawaii. But that's ok, because UA isn't going to get rid of the 757s entirely, and those sort
30 QANTAS077 : does UA have the capital for this type of purchase?
31 Etoile : You are right that neither vendor would fail to bid on any tender, but in any CO tender Airbus already knows it is behind Boeing by at least the cost
32 Danfearn77 : As soon as i read of the 757's being retired i thought immediately about the 739ER's. Would do a great job as some people have pointed out the A321 do
33 Carpethead : Is UA even thinking about having GE engines on its aircraft? If no, then one can eliminate the 77W & 748 immediately.
34 Brilondon : Could this be a way of CO investing in UA or possibly a route toward merger? This seems to be the most logical. Too early. This deal is going to take
35 DeltaL1011man : UA? "as well as some of its 97 older Boeing 757 narrow-body planes, these" Some not all guys. IMO the 748 has a better chance. They can go GEnx on al
36 Olympic472 : The financials of both manufacturer's proposals will be first and foremost. UA knows where they want to be in terms of their network. What is unpredic
37 PM : No-one has mentioned the A330 yet. I always thought that the A330 would be very useful for UA.
38 DeltaL1011man : with Trent 700s. IMO the 330 is to "old" for UA. UA has young 767s and 777s to do the same thing. At this point UA will more than likely look into th
39 Avek00 : CO will have little to do with UA's fleet acquisition considerations. In fact, part of the value of the CO/UA partnership comes from the fact that the
40 Par13del : Why is the A321 not considered "old technology" as the B-757, because it came out a few years later or because it is still in production, other than n
41 NA : Very unsure about narrowbodies, what the mix of A, B, C, or E could be. The 757s need replacement, so the only thing I want to say here is some A321s
42 UnitedTristar : Just to throw in my 2cents here, I think the 777LR has a chance here for a hand full of orders. I could see UA wanting to use them for routes such as
43 PM : Well, now you mention it...
44 Joost : Boeing nor Airbus stops bidding on Ryanair. They are just playing a media game. There is no way that any manufacturer does not bid on any 100+ aircra
45 MadameConcorde : Here is my choice as a UA Million Miles flyer most always long haul. I would like to see them buying B-777-300 ERs and B-747-8s.
46 Ual777 : All of the Airbus 320/19s are staying AFAIK. They are pretty young. Question. Why on Earth would UA replace the 150 some-odd airbusses (most of which
47 Carls : Why are they going to get an old desing when they can order the A380? If the A380 is too big then the A351 or the 773 will do the job in much better
48 Bmacleod : It can be a certain given that UA will order the 787. I can't see the A380 flying in UA colors so it remains to be seen if UA still needs a 747 size a
49 TISTPAA727 : "By staging a winner-takes-all competition between the two airplane makers, United's parent, UAL Corp.(UAUA Quote), is hoping to obtain better terms t
50 Jfk777 : 787-9 will be in the mix, I don't see how United could not have that airplane when all of Asia and Australia are going to have it as well as American
51 DeltaL1011man : yes. the 737-900ER. But it isn't much better. the 321 and 739ER both lack the range to replace a 757. the 900 has a more range than the 321 which cou
52 Isitsafenow : Any airline exec that thinks he is going to replace a 757 with an A321 needs to get out of the airline biz into something else. Damn stupid move to re
53 AA777223 : As much as I am not a huge airbus fan (especially narrowbodies) I do think the A330 is the sexiest plane in the sky (soon to be closely followed by th
54 Tayser : anything that would allow UA to decouple their MEL flights from SYD and be able to fly to LAX or SFO or both year round non-stop to MEL with a dramati
55 Rheinwaldner : It's not about technology but weight. Because the A321 is not "overbuilt" it delivers a large portion of the 757 capability much more efficient. The
56 Post contains links and images Tjwgrr : A350 Aviation-Design.Net:Design © Raydon DesignsTemplate © Airbus A332 Aviation-Design.Net:Design © EdineyTemplate © French Fogs Airslides A321 Av
57 787KQ : Airliners are pretty much asset-based financing, more so than cash flow lending, so a strong financial position is not as important as many think. Ai
58 Joost : Looking at airlines that operate both the 757 and the 321 (BA, US), they have very similar seat counts. The 757 is a very versatile aircraft, but on
59 TylerDurden : Good for United. This is one of the few I think will have some political interference---two Illinois based companies and a former senator from Illino
60 Scorpy : Exactly.. and UA uses their 757's for a wide varity of routes - some very much use these capabilties like transcons and hawaii, but they are also use
61 MCOflyer : It appears to me that Boeing will offer them a mixed fleet of 739ER's, 748I's, and 787's. All three will be equiped with GE engines. Airbus will offer
62 EA772LR : Well if the 748I is good enough for LH, why isn't it good enough (if it can fulfill UA's needs) for UA as well? I dunno about the 739ERs. It wouldn't
63 ERJ170 : United has already parked some 320 family aircraft. THOSE are the birds to which I am referring. Not the ones currently flying. Why would they need s
64 Revelation : Somehow DL and AA are quite happy with the prices Boeing gives them, without the need for investing in Airbus products to keep Boeing happy, NW integ
65 EA772LR : Boeing doesn't offer the 739 anymore, only the 739ER.
66 Isitsafenow : Most interesting points you made. In the USA we have/had America West,TWA,AA,UA,CO,NW,DL, using the 757 and only USAirways with the A321 and some for
67 FlyBoy84 : Well, since everybody ELSE has chimed in with THEIR , I'll add MINE... I think UA should order the most efficient planes for the intended missions the
68 EA772LR : Agreed, it is compelling. But to be fair, so is Airbus's line up: A330-200 A330-300 A350-800 A350-900 A350-1000 A380-800 Now granted there are some s
69 FlyBoy84 : I realize in my post above that the 787 carries way MORE than 150 pax., I was referring to the idea of both wide and narrowbodies being ordered!
70 FUN2FLY : International Fleet - per UA website: 747 - 24 777 - 46 767 - 21 Total: 81 I can't find the number of domestic units - figure 30 if the article is rig
71 BlueSky1976 : Boeing might have a slight edge with the 787-8 capacity, as it is more directly aimed at the 767-300ER replacement United flies. However, Airbus has a
72 United1 : No they haven't all 152 are in service....the only A320 that has left the fleet was a lease rejection in BK back in 2003/4.
73 MogandoCI : this is my first post, so please excuse me if I've missed stuff others have mentioned/explained already. is it just me, or the government will practic
74 United1 : The current fleet is at.... 744-26 772-52 763-35 UA is supposedly not planning on replacing the 777s and the 14 domestic 763s are late 90's /early 20
75 CV880 : Employees' Pensions
76 LH506 : This order will in my opinion replace some 50 757s 30 747s 35 767s some 30 777s all 777As plus the oldest 777ER which makes it roughly 150 planes. I a
77 Tigerotor77W : I'm surprised no one sees a sure Airbus victory -- although the Europeans are asleep at the moment. Consider this -- the oldest narrowbodies are the 7
78 Tjwgrr : Guess we know where FedEx will be getting a bunch more 757's.
79 EA772LR : Considering what was on offer at the time, it was either the 777, MD-11, or A340-200/300. The 777 even at the time looked most attractive, and still
80 Wjcandee : Remarkable that 1/4 of UA's fleet is 757s. They'll be around for a while.
81 Par13del : US govt. traditionally does not get involved in domestic airline purchases, if they did, UA would not have its current fleet of A320 a/c or NW its A3
82 DC8FanJet : Not a lot of capital needed-lease financing/etc. will cover. Only A320 "parked" was a lease rejection during Ch11.. And while A-net is obsessed with
83 Carls : You are right, then I think they will order all Airbus. A320 Family due to the fact that they already fly it. A330 for Medium hauls and Domestic A350
84 Clipper136 : Lets start with FACTS. UA favors A32X for their NB fleet. UA favors IAE engines for their NB fleet. As we don't know the actual make-up of the order (
85 SEPilot : I do not think that UA's current fleet of A319/A320's is going to influence this decision. After all, they are replacing 757's, not A321's, so if they
86 Sancho99504 : I've skim read this thread and keep seeing the "A321 doesn't have the legs". I do have to say that the A321-100 doesn't have the legs to do PHL or IAD
87 Contrails : Agreed. The article didn't say anything about how UA would pay for the planes. Good luck, UA.
88 Tigerotor77W : Beg to differ in that the A330 was also an option at the time. These planes were to replace the DC-10s of the fleet, and the performance shortcomings
89 EA772LR : Not anymore. Take a look at DL/NW (read: DL now) 753 763/763ER 764 A332/333 777 744 This is how I see it happening. Make both manufacturers happy.
90 Drerx7 : A split order is the best option...but if it is a winner take all order then it really is going to come down to who has the best deal.
91 Post contains links Lightsaber : It isn't sure for either vendor. Tilton is being blunt: "Glenn Tilton, chairman and chief executive of Chicago-based United, told employees in a mess
92 SEPilot : I do not understand why people keep insisting that business executives do not mean what they clearly say. UA said it is "winner take all." That to me
93 EA772LR : Yeah, but the A330 is not in the same class as the 77E and UA would not have ordered 20+ A330s then 20+777s...why split the fleet up like that? So ag
94 Jfk777 : Any airline ordering the 748 now would still be a launch customer. If UA ordered 20 or 30 748's Boeing would give them a huge discount, Boeing needs
95 ER757 : I wouldn't say a sure victory, but I think they have the advantage. UA has already shown their narrowbody preference with their A320 series fleet. If
96 Astuteman : Don't get the first of these. Airbus has a plane currently flying that is so close to the 787-8 in size, that the 787-8 could well be mistaken for a
97 Post contains images EA772LR : As far as I know, UA has the traffic across the Pacific to justify the A380, or am I way off base? Perhaps UA could be the launch customer for the 78
98 Lightsaber : This is really tough actually. If I were on the UA negotiating team, I would be trying for the best price from either. This order is large enough tha
99 FlyVail : I agree totally that the 77W is probably the plane they want/need, but my (wildly speculative) guess is that they will go for the 748i based on nothin
100 Bluesky02 : From Glenn Tilton today: Glenn Tilton's Message to Employees - Investing in Our Future Dear fellow employee: We have been talking with you about the p
101 MogandoCI : All those orders (if I recall) were made during either ( a ) a non-obsessively-pro-union president, or ( b ) when the airline wasn't bankrupt and/or
102 ItalianFlyer : UAL will def have new metal on the property...then the 73-7/8//900s/76-400s and 75-300s from CO are integrated into a common O.C. lol While this is re
103 Bluesky02 : I love it!
104 EWRkid1990 : I don't think any US carrier is going to be thinking about the A380 for a long while, if ever.
105 AADC10 : Financing will probably be part of the bid. If Boeing or Airbus can line up financing or leasing companies that could swing the deal. While I am sure
106 Par13del : You like conspiracies, try this one, what percentage of AF fleet is Boeing and what percentage is Airbus, what percentage of EU fleets are Boeing ver
107 Phllax : My bet is: 737-900ER as the 757 replacement (and later 700's and 800's to replace 319/320) 767-400 as a 767-300 and 777-200A replacement 787
108 EA772LR : The 788 is a 763 replacement. the 789 is a 764/332/can be a 333 and 772 replacement. The A358 is a 764/A332 replacement, albeit much longer range. Th
109 United1 : Just as a reference point for folks as they make their predictions here is a list of the UA 744, 763ER, 772 (non-ER) and 752 fleet and the year that t
110 DocLightning : Some thoughts on the 748i for UA: UA and NW both bought the 744 back in the '80's to bolster their trans-pac networks. Until the 744, there was no A/C
111 PITrules : Traditionally, yes. However, over the past year the US gov't became owner of banks, GM, and who knows what else Business executives and ethics? Trans
112 Post contains links United787 : Hopefully my username will finally make some sense... With the poor economy and orders being cancelled at both Airbus and Boeing, United could be look
113 WESTERN737800 : I'm kinda a pessimest, thats what I first thought when I read the thread title. I think the 319/320s will be in the UA fleet for years to come. I see
114 FlyLKU : My Assumptions: 1) Entire order to 1 supplier 2) UA will not fly anything larger than 777-200 size aircraft in the future (retire 747s) Early deliveri
115 Zvezda : Cabin floor areas in square meters: B767-200 154.9 B767-300 184.5 B767-400 214.1 B787-8 223.8 A350-800 243.5 B787-9 257.4 B777-200 279.0 A350-900 279
116 Stitch : Personally, I think Airbus has the inside track - especially if UA is ordering with the intent to remain an independent operating entity and not merge
117 Revelation : Talk about putting some pressure on the suppliers!
118 Isitsafenow : That's the business world, pal. It happens every single day all around the world, no matter what you buy.......or sell. safe
119 EA772LR : Nice post I'm still wondering why WSJ is reporting this will be a "winner take all" order, since in no where in Tilton's letter he mentions "winner t
120 Par13del : Based on the number produced, I don't think either OEM needs to have a B-764 replacement. Well a couple years ago Boeing finally realised that market
121 CFBFrame : I seem to remember UA had one A321 in their fleet for a very short period. Does anyone remember what happened to that a/c? The results of that usage m
122 FlyLKU : I agree! None of the other U.S. carriers have pulled the trigger on the 77W or 747-8i let alone the A380. I don't see UA bucking that trend. But, may
123 Galapagapop : Even though the UA operates tons of A320's, would any of their remaining 737OG's still be around when first deliveries begin? If so, why would it be a
124 Ikramerica : Yes, them too. Winner take all contests for an entire fleet seems like a stupid way of doing business. It necessarily makes you consider and buy the
125 Rj777 : When was the last time United ordered new jets? the 777 order?
126 Post contains links and images Keesje : Yes they have big Pacific hub hub operations with restricted slots, overfly rights and landing rights. UA is big long time time VLA operator and a bi
127 777Mike : President Obama is from Illinois. United is a Chicago-based company. So is Boeing. An mutual understanding, topped with some tax-incentives for both p
128 EA772LR : Stitch what if Boeing were to launch the 787-10? UA could launch that, as a 787-10 could be ready by the time the 777s are ready to be replaced and a
129 Post contains images KGAIflyer : OMG ! It's beautiful !!!
130 Keesje : I think both 787 and A350 have their uncertainties. Both have production lines filled until 2015/16 .. The combi : A330s next yr and A350s later on pr
131 SEPilot : Hey, business executives are people, too. Some are ethical, some are not, just like the rest of us. It's the unethical ones we read and hear about, b
132 Post contains links FFlyerWorld : Whoa! Not so fast out of the gate everyone! Another take on this makes some sense. Read carefully... http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...boeing-onc
133 ER757 : " target=_blank>http://www.fool.com/investing/genera....aspx I don't agree with this analysis - I think Boeing would very much like this order and wi
134 SEPilot : This makes some good points. It does no good to build planes that the customer then cannot pay for. If UA orders a bunch of planes and then goes bank
135 KGAIflyer : Well okay then. (1) UA *does not* fly the 757 transatlantic -- it does fly the 757 to Hawaii. Btw, USAir flies the 321 PHL-SFO which is about the sam
136 413X3 : that mock United A380 has the US flag pointing the wrong direction
137 Stitch : It would have to match at least UA's de-rated 777-200ERs in payload-range performance. UA is heavy into transpac and West Coast to Europe, so they ne
138 Drerx7 : I disagree... Whoever wins this order will have a foot in the door for the next gen narrowbody game IMO. This is a chance for Boeing to get a former
139 DLSLC : Amen to that. Who would possibly want to fund that mess? That is all they are..a mess.
140 Ytib : United will not operate any 737's by the end of 2009, so they could be out of the 737 flying business prior to a decision on any additional aircraft
141 Viscount724 : If not mistaken, UA previously announced plans to retire ALL their 737s by the end of this year.
142 Viscount724 : Just curious what source do you use for the floor area data? Thanks.
143 SixtySeven : The A321 is the worst fit UAL could ever pick to replace the 757. The A321 is an underpowered dog that is best used for inter europe high density flig
144 Viscount724 : However that makes the A321 more efficient and economical than the 757 on 90% of the routes currently operated by the 757. Using an aircraft that can
145 SixtySeven : Good point, however in Canada at least we seem to push that thing to the limit. YZ YYC is a challenge for that thing. They fly it full and it cant get
146 EA772LR : I don't think the A321 is underpowered at all. It's thrust to weight ratio with the V2533s is much better than the 739ER. Run the numbers if you don'
147 DC8FanJet : UH....NO...never been an A321 on the UA property.
148 Keesje : The 5 hrs segment. And the A321 is rooomier, far more efficient and carries cargo containers. The A321 was launched 10 yrs ago has sold 750 and will
149 NCB : The aircraft must be able to replace B763ER/B757 very urgently B772/B744 from 2015 on. B763ER/B772/B744 can be replaced by A350 family or by a combina
150 SixtySeven : I think I mentioned the small wing did I not? Everything on that airplane is small. They just used too much from the smaller 320 and it was just too m
151 KGAIflyer : I don't understand what you mean by "can't get up." I know some of you guys are pilots while I'm simply a frequent flyer. So I don't get your points
152 Tigerotor77W : Agreed, but I think Airbus has the advantage. No, it's not. It doesn't have to be -- the 330 takes the place of the 767; the 350 takes the place of t
153 EA772LR : I stand corrected. You are the pilot...I am just an armchair enthusiast Perhaps, but you did notice I was 'stirring the pot'
154 EASTERN : I have also traveled transcon on A321s. I do find them roomier and much more comfortable than a 757. The newer ones that I've flown on with US are nic
155 MEACEDAR : Recession my ass...I don't understand UA's mentality. Aren't they on the verge of bankruptcy?
156 Ual777 : Just a thought...... Glenn said something very interesting. To paraphrase it was something along the lines of "deliveries will extend many years into
157 Ual777 : No they aren't. Its a common ANET myth that has been floating around since 2001.
158 ElBandGeek : While I'd prefer to see Boeings in UA's fleet I think the 321 is still gonna be the best NB option they have. It's assumed they'll be keeping enough 7
159 STT757 : The 737-900ERs can do West Coast - Hawaii, plus anything inside the Continental US. Since UA has not nor plans to fly their 757-200s on trans-Atlanti
160 Okie : " target=_blank>http://www.fool.com/investing/genera....aspx Financing, financing, why does this smell of TWA. Okie
161 Jet-lagged : Over the years, they've used more and more 777s to Narita and fewer 747s. If they can't pack Tokyo full of 747s, where can they? Thus, I doubt they wi
162 Tigerotor77W : Very good point. Any of my "arguments" are moot anyhow because I'm certainly not the one with UA's checkbook! I want Boeing to win... but I'm afraid
163 777STL : Simple economics. Demand is low right now for aircraft so UA has greater buying power than they would if the economy was in better shape. My guess is
164 Manfredj : Now this is my kind of speculation. I think this all depends on what's happening in the background with CO as mentioned. Given CO's extreme relationsh
165 EA772LR : While this could be an option, they absolutely have to begin their fleet renewal of their widebody fleet. Many of the 767/747 need to be replaced soo
166 Ual777 : UA has wanted the 773 for a while. I heard it back in 2000. We will see if it finally comes to fruition this time around.
167 Par13del : One of Airbus primary selling points is type commonality, that is meant to encourage customers to stay within the OEM's product line, since Airbus ha
168 TISTPAA727 : Exactly. While I think it is an interesting read the analyst seems to miss the bigger picture. A company is not made or lost in one or two quarters (
169 LDVAviation : As this article makes clear, Boeing has to protect the profit margins on its commercial plane business. Offering United any special discount or speci
170 Stitch : UA has two tranches of 767-300ERs. The first 23 were delivered from 1991 to 1993 and the second tranche (14) were delivered between 1998-2001. So even
171 777law : Following the LH order for the 748i, I've long seen UA as a top candidate for it. My guess is Boeing is relatively anxious to sell the plane to anothe
172 Stitch : Well UA's 77Es have an artificially low MTOW, so they could pay Boeing to kick that up, but I don't know if their PW4000's can put it to good use. Air
173 RayChuang : I think UA is definitely in the running to buy the 777-300ER to slowly replace their 747-400 fleet. The 773ER has low enough CASM that they can be use
174 Alphaomega : I had thought that the 773 only had the GE90-115Bs offered on it, but I know the first few 773 going to KE has PW4090s, B777-3B5 HL7532, HL7533, and
175 SeaBosDca : As a Seattleite from before my first birthday I am rooting for Boeing in any deal like this... and, I think, even if Airbus wins there will be no A33
176 PM : This has achieved the status of A.Net myth. In reality, there was no "controversy".
177 SeaBosDca : The 737NG was still years in the future when UA ordered its first A320s. The A320 was ridiculously better than the 737 Classic. The UA A320 order sho
178 Stitch : The 777-300 and 777-300ER are two different models. The 777-300 is effectively no longer in production (nobody has ordered it for some time) and the
179 Etoile : UA is committed to 42 more Airbii, or to lose a deposit that averages to about $2 million each, IIRC.
180 Ordpark : I've waited so long for this....I was beginning to wonder if we were ever gonna buy a new airplane! I feared us shrinking to point where we would beco
181 777den : UAL gave up those options a year or so ago.
182 Behramjee : If I was in charge of the new fleet planning committee of UAL, I would opt for the following: 1. Replace all B 757-200s with A 321s. 2. Replace Boeing
183 SixtySeven : There is no doubt the 321 would likely be much more comfortable passenger wise. When I mentioned the 321 is an underperformer I meant piloting wise. T
184 Post contains links Etoile : I see, you are right, and UA wrote off the deposit: http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1...000095013709001460/c49215e10vk.htm So there are 105 millio
185 Philly65 : You're giving Nobama too much credit...LOL!! I wondered about the Chicago connection and not sure that will play into this too heavily. Just not sure
186 UAORD2000 : Ummm, Ted is going to be completely gone in a few months and the planes are well into the reconfigurations.
187 HNL-Jack : Given the current state of the economy, GM, etc, I think it is fair to say that there will be intense political pressure on UA, Boeing, suppliers and
188 Phllax : A lot of the US transcons on the 321 top off at 26 or 28 for the first 3 hours or so before they can eventually climb up to the 30's. I also don't th
189 Post contains links DL Widget Head : BusinessWeek is reporting an interesting take on this (as first reported by the WSJ)... http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...2009/db2009064_857013.h
190 Bananaboy : 260? Their 747's take around 340 pax. The A380 would mean more seats, but not as many as you suggest. Also, it's important to remember that money is
191 Wjcandee : The 321 is a modern, snazzy, comfortable plane from a passenger perspective, but it's an underperformer on longer routes. I don't care what the purpo
192 Post contains images Keesje : Contrary: the A321 will continue to replace 757 and soon out sell it. Comfort, cargo and most of all : economics ! A321-200 (CFM) Operating empty 48,
193 Rheinwaldner : Any airline must be in a position to afford fleet renewals from time to time. If today UA is not in position to invest in a new fleet, how would they
194 SEPilot : By the time this is built it will probably cost 75% of what a totally new aircraft would cost. It will not happen-Airbus & Boeing are both planning n
195 MilesDependent : I agree. It will come down to which offers the better deal. UA could make it work either way.
196 Trent1000 : Yes! Is it really a case of 787 = really new product = better for advertising, travel experience for pax? Is the 787 better for use vs the 737NG seri
197 Keesje : Except if there is demand, the risks are low and they can sell 1400 without competition. I think the GTF and GENX are dimension to go up to at least
198 SEPilot : If indeed they could sell 1400 of them then you might be right. However, if there was that much demand the 757 would still be in production. The fact
199 Carls : Wowo first time I heard that Boeing is looking to buy the A350 XWB.....must be good..... I couldn't resist.
200 RayChuang : Oops! But still think United will NOT buy the A350-900XWB due to parts commonality issues with United's 777-200A/777-200ER fleet.
201 VC10er : I know emotional decisions may not factor in this but it seems like UA likes to be a launch customer like the 777. Would the 787-9 make a potential de
202 UAORD2000 : Correct, well kinda. It was already a huge blow in the 90's when UA ordered the A319/320 series.
203 Bananaboy : I doubt it would be any more of a blow for Boeing than when they went for the DC-10, or for the A319's and A320's. That's not to say it wasn't a big
204 Stitch : Which could favor the 747-8 since it offers significantly more revenue cargo volume (after passenger bags are boarded) then the A380-800.
205 SEPilot : United was not started by Boeing; Boeing owned United briefly in the 30's. They also owned P&W at the same time, but that hasn't stopped them from us
206 KGAIflyer : Interesting deduction given that **all four** aircraft types currently operate -- for various airlines -- out of DEN *year-round.*
207 Par13del : If we follow that logic, the A380 for UA is doomed, since UA presently does not operate any a/c with that much capacity, and have been reducing the n
208 United1 : UAs beginnings are traced back to Varney Airlines however it was not until Boeing purchased Vareny and merged them in with Boeing Transport that the
209 Zvezda : UA have positioned themselves as a more premium carrier amongst the US airlines with, for example, Premium Economy and International First. Therefore
210 Rheinwaldner : Great thoughts! If that "strange" idea from Boeing (not even sacrificing a bit of efficiency for medium ranges but go for the real short segments onl
211 Olympic472 : Yes. This sums it up for UA's replacement of its VLA fleet. 744-8 for long sectors (SFO-SYD), and also where capacity is utilized (SFO-FRA). 77W for
212 NorthStarDC4M : Boeing Air Transport merged with 2 other airlines (Varney and National Air Services) to form United Airlines which was owned by United Aircraft and T
213 EA772LR : I don't know if UA would even care to be a launch customer, and at this point, what could they launch? The 787-10 or next gen NB? If they ordered the
214 Brons2 : If the A3510 were closer to EIS it would make a lot more sense to go all-Airbus as they could replace 767 and 777 with the A350 product series and ha
215 MasseyBrown : Jamie Baker of JP Morgan today has an even more interesting take. In cutting UA to "underperform" he says that the new plane order is Tilton's admiss
216 SEPilot : As I understand it, the CASM of the 757 is surprisingly competitive with other planes; in fact, IIRC according to a chart that was posted on this for
217 LDVAviation : Airbus might be crazy enough to do this, but if Boeing did this it would have to do something similar for customers like Delta, AA, and CO. So, as I
218 Keesje : Agree the A350-1000 has a disadvantage in not being available before 2016-2017 and that's 7-8 yrs ahead.. The 777-300ER is very good, available and h
219 Brons2 : Didn't Airbus give US DIP financing when they were in bankruptcy? As I understand US has paid it back. But would they give UA a capital increase? Som
220 United1 : I'm not so sure if I buy what Jamie Baker (or anyone else who is viewing this proposed order as anything but a positive thing) is saying, but I agree
221 Par13del : You comparing these seat widths to the a/c below which Airbus is not directly competing with - B787 - or the B-777 which only one model so far is goi
222 Brons2 : What about the 772ER? You've only got 90 widebodies in your numbers there, and don't mention the 772ER. UA currently has 111 widebodies. For an Airbu
223 United1 : I don't see the 772ER going away for the next 10-15 years, according to the article UA is looking at replacing the older aircraft in the fleet so I w
224 EA772LR : Yes but neither the 350-900 nor the 350-1000 really compete with the 77W/L. The 359 is a 77E/343 replacement, while the 3510 is a cross between a 346
225 Phllax : Yes, all 4 types do operate there year round, but there are only 2 daily 321 flights compared to the rest of the types, and none of them are going We
226 Alphaomega : True - I forgot they didn't have the NGs then - there were quite a few aircraft better than the 732 but the A319s and A320s could pull circles around
227 EA772LR : Unfortunately this doesn't coincide with this:
228 United787 : I think Keesje is on to something, the A321 may not perform as well as the 757 but if the carrot is big enough, Airbus may convinced they need to mak
229 Post contains links A342 : To all of you who claim that the 739ER has more range than the A321...Do you know what you're talking about? Let's have a look at the payload-range ch
230 DocLightning : Which raises an interesting issue. Does this mean that we might start to see a return to widebodies on transcon and Hawaii routes? If the 757 is over
231 MasseyBrown : There was amplification in a later release saying that neither Airbus nor Boeing was considered likely to make a large investment in or loan to UA ou
232 Keesje : A342 thnx. I didn't check / pay attention, but its remarkable everybody (me) automatically starts adopting info being corrrect if it is stated / used
233 DC8FanJet : Realistic projections...old & new technology will win out. 777-300ER to replace the 744's 787-8 to replace the 767 and the A321 will partially replace
234 Post contains links EA772LR : Good question, as the numbers you display are interesting to counter the "739ER has more range than the A321" argument. However, what about cost to o
235 Brilondon : Would UA be able to tap into the stimulus money if they were to purchase from Boeing?
236 N1786b : No, but if they buy Airbus, they will be able to tap French, German, and UK export bank funds and/or support.
237 A342 : I don't know if there is a significant difference, and if yes, how great it is. I was merely adressing the range issue. But due to UA's A319 and A320
238 EA772LR : I agree I think the ones suggesting UA should go with the 739ER to do the Hawaii/Transcons are maybe forgetting that UA is keeping several 757s. Keep
239 Post contains links and images Keesje : The A321 is capable cargo platform compared to 737 and 757. It can carry 10 standard containers and /or pallets on its automated loading system.
240 Stitch : While Boeing's ACAP only shows "bulk cargo" for the 757, I am sure I have seen ULDs loaded into the hold at airports.
241 Post contains links Keesje : Stitch I don't think so. It's an Airbus NB selling point. I'm sure the 737RS will have it. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.mai
242 Stitch : Fair enough. Still, I wonder how often ULDs are used on narrowbodies since it takes time to load and unload them and then carry them out to the plane
243 KGAIflyer : Trust me -- I'm not a pilot, but I understand your point. But, I was over on Flightaware comparing average flight altitudes for airlines flying the 3
244 MSPNWA : My dream is an 748i, 77W, 787 series, and 739ER order. But I think it will be a mix of A321, 77W, and 788.
245 NCB : The gap in passenger seats is big, but the A358 will have operating costs close to that of the B763ER. Those additional 50 seats will be just free ca
246 Briguy1974 : This is a Boeing order in the making. This will be a 777-300/787 order with the possibility of a large 737-900 order. There is no real replacement for
247 KGAIflyer : As has been stated elsewhere on A.net, the 737-900 is no longer manufactured by Boeing. Perhaps you meant 737-900ER?
248 Seemyseems : I just watched the video on this from the BBC, what sort of wide bodies jets would they go for, is they B737NG a possibility?
249 Brons2 : Here's a question. Is UA still anti-GE due to UAL232? I've seen it mentioned in this forum that after that particular accident UA became very anti-GE.
250 United1 : Understood, I haven't had a chance to read Bakers letter directly and as usual what is posted on Yahoo News/Marketwatch is slanted a bit. Indirectly
251 Briguy1974 : I have trouble seeing the A321 in UA future. The mainstay of the 757 routes flown for UA are cross country and Hawaii. It is my understanding that the
252 Brons2 : But UA has a lot of 757's...and they will be keeping many examples for the service you speak of, transcon and Hawai'i service. It doesn't seem like p
253 Gigneil : SImple- the A321 was constantly improved over its lifetime, and started at a much more advanced state. Assuming for the moment one ever gets delivere
254 United1 : I think the 319/320 fleet is going to be a huge factor in this decision. The 321 is a perfect fit for UA on 99% of its 752 flights on routes out of D
255 Phllax : I forgot to mention that CO is going to run LAX-HNL with the 900ER in September. It will be interesting to see how it performs. Their configuration is
256 Pellegrine : Personal Dreamfleet: A321 to replace old 757s (but probably not all) 787-8/9 to replace 767-300ERs No decision on 77W or A350 yet. 15 or so B747-8i.
257 Zvezda : The only plausible future VLA routes for UA are: SFO-PEK, SFO-PVG, SFO-NRT, LAX-NRT, ORD-NRT, ORD-PEK, and ORD-PVG. The reason is the limited availab
258 SunriseValley : Is this the time for Boeing to offer the long awaited "improved" 77W or would it be premature for them to disclose what they have in mind since the "
259 KGAIflyer : Uuuum. Yeah. USAir's CLT-DEN-CLT flights do not go west over the rockies. Why would they? What is the point you're trying to make?
260 Post contains links Stitch : UA has confirmed they are not looking at a VLA-class airplane. Chicago Tribune Article I think UA will choose the 777-300ER if they want planes before
261 KGAIflyer : Then I'm puzzled how AC, AF, AZ, LH, MS, OZ, QR, and SK criss-cross Africa, Asia, Canada, and Europe with the 321. For instance, Canada is way way wa
262 MasseyBrown : Canada isn't smaller, but the principal Canadian transcon routes are shorter. For example, YYX-YVR is 1811nm; JFK-SFO is 2247nm.
263 Stitch : That certainly seems to be the case. The 747’s time has passed just as it has for the 707, the 727 and the 757. Boeing will have to come out with a
264 EA772LR : Huh? It's been delayed, how does that turn into "if it ever gets delivered"??? I'm sure this downturn will help open up slots for UA deliveries shoul
265 Thestooges : The cities that UA fly it's 757's from ORD and DEN to, which are all routes the A-321 would be perfect for, are . . . ORD to BOS, BDL, LGA, EWR, PHL,
266 Post contains images KGAIflyer : You mean YYZ-YVR, right?   I get your drift So . . . we're talking about Canadian transcon routes, right? Just a point, YHZ to YVR is 2390nm -- thou
267 Post contains links VirginFlyer : It would seem as though it is more John Leahy who is saying this rather than anyone at United, unless I misread the article. Conceivably they *could*
268 Rj777 : NOTE TO MODERATORS: I think it's time to start a 2nd thread....... But I seriously think here's what'll happen: A321s to replace the 757s: 773s and 74
269 Phllax : My point is that the 321 is not operationally challenged going East out of DEN as it would be going to points North and West. How would you like to b
270 AirNZ : How do you see them being operationally challenged going west, or north, from Denver?
271 FrmrCAPCADET : American airlines have been extremely conservative in fleet replacement/renewal/updates. This order may simply be essential if they are to continue i
272 Stitch : But if the A380-800E or the A380-900 offers significantly better economics or capabilities, it will become the preferred model and outsell it. The 77
273 Gigneil : What? The A321 is not operationally limited out of Denver, period. It can get off the runways there at MTOW in all but the most drastic of conditions
274 KGAIflyer : How would I like it? Probably the same way I would feel flying AF, AZ, or LH to cross the Alps or the Pyrennes during the winter when it's in the low
275 Post contains images KGAIflyer : You seem to speak with authority. But what I really hear is the restatement of folklore and urban legend. So . . . do you have any evidence, fact, or
276 FrmrCAPCADET : I would expect an updated 380 about 5-10 years into service, closer to the later. As the only game in town they will get all of the sales in that nich
277 Danny : They could just about cover the same with one type - A350XWB.
278 Post contains images KGAIflyer : Okay, I been doing a little research vis a vis European 321 operations. Take Innsbruck Austria for instance. It has altutude, mountains, and a realtiv
279 Briguy1974 : The A321 will have no restrictions in and out of ORD or DEN and probably makes the most sense with the fleet commonality, the issue is the SFO to BOS,
280 SDQ777 : Why not just replace the engines on the 757 with more fuel efficient engines? cheaper to operate and not as expensive as a new airplane.
281 EA772LR : With what? There's no engine that delivers the same thrust that's anymore efficient than the PW2000/RB211-535. In fact, there's no other engines out
282 Post contains links A342 : I beg to differ: http://www.kmpo.ru/hke.htm And of course, there's the PS-90.
283 Gigneil : The bottom line to that is that said engines are not readily available for the plane. Boeing would have to certify them, and that costs money. It woul
284 SDQ777 : Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's been a russian made turbofan installed on a Boeing aircraft.
285 Brons2 : The runways are much longer at DEN, so it has that additional advantage as well. Clearly we have beaten this A321 vs 757 topic to a pulp. UA will kee
286 A342 : Of course. I was just a bit providing a bit of food for thought.
287 Theginge : But using that logic UA would not have bought their Airbuses. Parts commonality is part of the decision but it would not be the overiding factor. It
288 EA772LR : My bad, there are other engine in the 38K-43K thrust class...but Boeing would probably NEVER use a Russian designed engine on any of their commercial
289 Post contains links Cosmofly : Not if Boeing bites the bullet now and add anther 100 seats to the crown space. http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/A380Buescher.pdf It will give th
290 Zvezda : Sorry, but there is no way that Boeing could get passenger seating certified for the crown space between of emergency evacuation requirements. Boeing
291 United Airline : The B 747-400s will stay on for a while that's for sure. Things can still change if CO merges with UA. My guess: 1) More A 319/320 to replace the outg
292 United Airline : Interestingly a lot of their B 747-400 flights run out full
293 Stitch : But often not year-round. UA moves them about the network throughout the year, tailoring them to where the demand is. So a certain route will be a 76
294 STT757 : 1.) It would be more 737-800s and 737-900ERs, especially to replace the 757s domestically. 2.) 787-8s to replace the 767-300s, 787-9s to replace the
295 United Airline : 15-25 I expect. Add ORD-HKG to the list. Also SFO-NRT, SFO-FRA etc.
296 Lightsaber : Better at this time to replace them with A333's. Sadly, the 84k PW4000's will have little resale value as they can not be upped to 90k. Unlikely. Boe
297 Post contains images A342 : Not at all, or would it be VERY expensive? I know, I know. But I still think that the NK-93 has the potential to put Russian engines on par with west
298 Post contains links Scbriml : This thread is now too long. Please continue discussion here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4438930/
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