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OAG Changes 6/06/09: AA/CO/F9/FL/NW/UA  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7526 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9561 times:

OAG changes often don't hit GDS until Monday. Comparison is versus last week's filed schedule, not the current schedule. In other words, these are NEW changes that were just implemented.

AA
DFW-MAD Daily to 5/week; eff. 12/09
DFW-CDG 14/week to 12/week; eff. 12/09

CO
Day of week reductions for September on nearly all domestic routes
BRO-IAH 6rt to 5; Oct. only
STL-IAH 6 to 5; Oct. only
TUL-IAH 8 to 7; Oct. only
EWR-ITH Summer service gap reinstated with 3 roundtrips. Last week CO added 4rts effective in September, that is now reduced to 3 rts to match the Summer.

F9
DEN-ASE 5 to 4; Oct to mid-Dec
DEN-MKE 3 to 4; Jul/Aug only; WN response?

FL
ATL-BKG now 2 daily flights eff. in July, rather than 8 to 10/week depending upon the month
ATL-MKE 4 to 5; eff. 7/09
MKE-BKG CXLD 4/week to 0; eff. 7/09

NW
HLN-MSP CXLD 1 to 0, EFF. 09/09
JMS-BRD CXLD 1 to 0, EFF. 09/09
MSP-FLL NEW 0 to 1, Service now operates in 09/09, previously service was suspended only during 09/09. Service is now continuous without a gap.
MSP-RSW NEW Exact same situation as MSP-FLL
MSP-MHT CXLD 1 to 0, EFF. 09/09
MSP-RIC CXLD 1 TO 0, EFF. 09/09

UA
ELP-ORD NEW 0 to 2, EFF. 09/09
BKW-IAD CXLD 1 to 0, EFF. 09/09
LIT-ORD NEW 0 to 3, EFF. 09/09

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9520 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
HLN-MSP CXLD 1 to 0, EFF. 09/09

I find this odd since the route is subsized by the Federal Bank...



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3845 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9515 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BKW-IAD CXLD 1 to 0, EFF. 09/09

Arent there 2 or 3 flights out of BKW that stop in SHD?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 25527 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9435 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-MKE 3 to 4; Jul/Aug only; WN response?

Oh, I don't think so. As you point out, it ends in August and Southwest doesn't start service at MKE until November.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9358 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ELP-ORD NEW 0 to 2, EFF. 09/09
LIT-ORD NEW 0 to 3, EFF. 09/09

ELP-ORD will be against established AA (except they have only 1x daily) and established WN (also 1x daily MDW-ELP)... but I wish them luck.

LIT-ORD will be against WN MDW-LIT, and a route they tried before (also 3x daily CRJs with Air Wisonsin a bunch of years back.)

Good luck with both of these to United.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7751 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9271 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DFW-MAD Daily to 5/week; eff. 12/09

This is seasonal and should go back to daily in the spring.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DFW-CDG 14/week to 12/week; eff. 12/09

Dont you mean JFK-CDG? DFW-CDG is daily not 14 weekly.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineIndyWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9222 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
LIT-ORD NEW 0 to 3, EFF. 09/09



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ELP-ORD NEW 0 to 2, EFF. 09/09

What equipment is being used for these flights?


User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9169 times:

It was just announced in the Tulsa World business section that F9 is returning to TUL eff. Aug. 2nd. Well, Lynx anyway with 2x Q400s back to DEN. I will be glad to see them back here. Now if they would take the abandoned Pinnacle gate next to us, I would be happy to watch the Q everyday!

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2977 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9108 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-MKE 4 to 5; eff. 7/09
MKE-BKG CXLD 4/week to 0; eff. 7/09

The plane which was scheduled to go to Branson is instead going to do another Atlanta trip. MKE-BKG departs at 10:41am (with the 6/11 schedule), and when BKG ends, it's replaced by a MKE-ATL trip departing at 10:41am.

It will be interesting to see if 5x holds up on MKE-ATL when they do the next re-work of the schedule.


User currently offlineColts001 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8992 times:



Quoting IndyWA (Reply 6):

ORD-ELP - 2 daily CR7

ORD-LIT - 2 daily CRJ & 1 daily CR7


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8911 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8859 times:



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 1):

I find this odd since the route is subsized by the Federal Bank...

Can't say I'm surprised though - SLC is quite closer than MSP, so it does make sense to route passengers over the SLC hub here rather than send a CRJ on a longer, thin route out to MSP.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3975 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8648 times:

Interesting developments regarding MSP-HLN. They're upgaguing for the summer from a Pinnacle oeprated -200 to a Mesaba operated -900. Then the drop it in the fall/? Weird. They must be focusing HLN connecting traffic over SLC instead. With regards to BRD-JMS... the tag along sectors for DVL and JMS seem to change all the time. When more capasity is needed to ABR, they tag on JMS to BRD. TVF, INL, BJI also ones that changes with the season. Regarding MSP-RIC... interesting too. It seems they're really trying to get rid of a lot of the long haul CRJs out of MSP. RIC is probably better conected via ATl or even DTW.

User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3858 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8518 times:



Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
ELP-ORD will be against established AA (except they have only 1x daily) and established WN (also 1x daily MDW-ELP)

WN doesn't fly nonstop between ELP & MDW.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8085 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
AA
DFW-MAD Daily to 5/week; eff. 12/09
DFW-CDG 14/week to 12/week; eff. 12/09

AA’s DFW-CDG is 7x weekly now and that won’t be changing.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
ELP-ORD will be against established AA (except they have only 1x daily) and established WN (also 1x daily MDW-ELP)... but I wish them luck.

AA flies ORD-ELP twice daily with mainline equipment.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
LIT-ORD will be against WN MDW-LIT, and a route they tried before (also 3x daily CRJs with Air Wisonsin a bunch of years back.)

And against AA’s ORD-LIT which is flown 5x daily with 2xCR7 and 3xER4.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4428 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7830 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MSP-FLL NEW 0 to 1, Service now operates in 09/09, previously service was suspended only during 09/09. Service is now continuous without a gap.
MSP-RSW NEW Exact same situation as MSP-FLL

I find it appalling the lack of service between Minneapolis and the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area. While a lot of the MSP traffic is destined for western Florida and Orlando, I still believe the eastern coast of Florida is under served. It's tough to get a connecting flight to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale in MSP without having to go to DTW as well.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7526 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7812 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
Dont you mean JFK-CDG? DFW-CDG is daily not 14 weekly.



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 13):
AA’s DFW-CDG is 7x weekly now and that won’t be changing.

LAXDude1023 was correct, it is a typo. It should read:

AA JFK-CDG 14/week to 12/week; eff. 12/09

Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):

Oh, I don't think so. As you point out, it ends in August and Southwest doesn't start service at MKE until November.

Regardless, it is doubtful the addition is related to profitability since UA/YX/F9 and now FL fly the route with WN soon adding it. It's hard to believe a market with 4 airlines in it and another on the way is worthy of more capacity due to profitability.  Smile


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8911 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7795 times:



Quoting Iowaman (Reply 14):
While a lot of the MSP traffic is destined for western Florida and Orlando, I still believe the eastern coast of Florida is under served. It's tough to get a connecting flight to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale in MSP without having to go to DTW as well.

I've never had a problem in the winter time getting a direct flight to MIA or FLL out of MSP, and I've flown both routes a few times in the past year. Same with MCO. It was about 3 daily to MIA, 4 daily to FLL and if I needed something at an alternate time, I could go through Atlanta.

In the summer and fall though, it makes sense to cut back on Florida. Summer at least schoolkids will go, but in the fall, South Florida is much quieter - families want their kids in school for those first few months, retirees aren't ready to come back down yet, etc. Around November is when the increases start to ramp up.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 25527 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7745 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 15):
Regardless, it is doubtful the addition is related to profitability since UA/YX/F9 and now FL fly the route with WN soon adding it. It's hard to believe a market with 4 airlines in it and another on the way is worthy of more capacity due to profitability.

At the time of the capacity increase, there are not four airlines flying the route, and the capacity increase is ended before the fourth airline enters that market.

What message does it send to Southwest?

Frontier: "We're going to make hay while you're not around."

Southwest: "Go for it. Why should we care? We're not there."

 confused 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1727 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 17):
At the time of the capacity increase, there are not four airlines flying the route, and the capacity increase is ended before the fourth airline enters that market.

Check that again. There are four airlines flying the route during the increase (non-stop service from YX, UA, FL, F9). The capacity is apparently withdrawn before the fifth airline starts the route. While it may not be sending a message to WN, it may be sending a message to UA/FL/YX that they have no intention of running away once WN enters. Considering it is a route where someone is almost certain to blink, it may be an important message to send.

[Edited 2009-06-05 13:45:17]

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 25527 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7657 times:
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Quoting Steex (Reply 18):
The capacity is apparently withdrawn before the fifth airline starts the route.

You're right, it is five. But the principle is still the same - I don't see how it is any possible message to Southwest.

I doubt it is a message to United, who would simply shrug - United and Frontier are old sparring partners from DEN and United, Frontier and Midwest have co-existed on this route for some time.

It may - stress "may" - be a message to Airtran, but given that Frontier and Airtran have a FF relationship, I'm not even sure about that.

But then, I don't buy into this concept of testosterone wars. I accept what Frontier says (about the additional summer capacity) at face value.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1727 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7446 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
But then, I don't buy into this concept of testosterone wars. I accept what Frontier says (about the additional summer capacity) at face value.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, it's obviously complete conjecture on my part. I do not think this kind of action would be equivalent to the usual "responses" though (i.e., NW announcing LGA-DFW in response to AA LGA-MSP). On a route where new competitors are entering, it makes perfect sense for F9 to increase its flying to show that it's an important route for them (especially if they know they can still fill the planes). I don't think it's aimed at anyone in particular, just a signal to all that this is a route where they are happy to increase capacity rather than leave.

Conversely, I could also see a situation where it's not really a message to anyone, but an attempt to capitalize on the FF base that AirTran is growing at MKE (which is at the expense of FL, but not really a message or attack). They may figure there are now more people who are looking to earn AirTran miles, but might prefer to fly F9's superior product if given the choice over FL. If I was an MKE-based passenger, that's what I would do.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 25527 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7401 times:
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Quoting Steex (Reply 20):
Conversely, I could also see a situation where it's not really a message to anyone, but an attempt to capitalize on the FF base that AirTran is growing at MKE (which is at the expense of FL, but not really a message or attack).

That may well be some part of it. Given the Frontier/Airtran FF deal, I have been surprised by a couple of Airtran actions.

MEM-MCO was always a very bad idea for Frontier, but Aitran starting the route immediately after Frontier announced it surely didn't help. Airtran might be able to claim MCO as their turf but surely not MEM.

And while MKE-DEN is an obvious route for anyone building a focus city at MKE, the partner airline does already fly the route.

So just very gently in the recesses of my mind, there is a nagging doubt about Airtran, on the lines of: "with friends like these...."

In which case, the concept of a small message to Airtran is not totally unthinkable.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

Is MSP-HNL really cancelled at least seasonally? Couldn't this just be something that hasn't been updated in the system? I expected this but not this soon

User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6600 times:



Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
Is MSP-HNL really cancelled at least seasonally? Couldn't this just be something that hasn't been updated in the system? I expected this but not this soon

It says HLN, which is Helena, Montana, not Honolulu.

Jeremy


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

Has OAG listed AA additional flights to/from SJU effective Nov/2009? The press release from the government of Puerto Rico came out last week. According to the press, AA would reinstate SJU-IAD; daily, SJU-ORD and SJU-BOS; both a 2nd daily and SJU-LAX an additional weekly frequency. A total of 4 additional departures per day...good news for SJU operation.

25 DeltAirlines : That being said, MSP-HNL is not going to be a daily flight this fall - it'll be either 4/5 times a week until the winter schedule ramps up.
26 Enilria : I just want to make sure that nobody thinks a market with 4 (soon 5) airlines in it is worthy of additional frequency due to profitability. They are
27 ERJ170 : I don't know when it starts, but I see the B6 is taking RDU-JFK down to 2 flights a day in September.. 1 E90 and 1 320. Anyone know why or for how lon
28 Mariner : Even if that is true, I don't think the message is from Frontier to Southwest. If you don't mind a "fanboy" answering, this was addressed - by me - o
29 Knope2001 : As I have pointed out elsewhere, the 4th Frontier trip being added (for summer only) increases MKE-DEN capacity to close to (but still short of ) wha
30 F9Fan : OK, what's going on at MKE? First, DL/NW starts using it as a focus city, then FL joins the party. Also, WN is starting up sometime late this fall. Is
31 Mariner : To add fuel to the fire, the wild card is Republic. As they have shown at least twice already, they will do whatever is necessary to protect their co
32 Enilria : I think that was posted in the OAG thread several weeks ago. I'm fairly certain that the only power they have with YX is the ability to withdraw the
33 Post contains links Mariner : I guess we see the ownership position differently. I don't think it is Republic's to sell. I'm not aware that Republic has any ownership stake in Mid
34 IgneousRocks : Just checking San Antonio, what was (I believe) 4x daily Frontier flights last summer is only two this year. But 9 overall n/s in the market - between
35 Knope2001 : Very true. But this year fuel is dirt cheap with oil down in the 30's. Oh...umm...wait a minute...
36 Enilria : It is "known" that YX is attempting to convert the overdue payments to Republic into equity. I expect it will translate into a fairly large share (th
37 Sideflare75 : When was this information made "known"? The latest information I saw said that Republic expected full payment to be made by the end of May. Even if t
38 Mariner : That would require the approval of the present shareholders, the present owners of Midwest. Even if they agreed, the missed payments aren't very larg
39 Post contains links Mariner : That's my understanding, too: http://dev.www.jsonline.com/business/45879832.html JSOnline - May 23: "Republic also disclosed in a recent financial re
40 Enilria : That's not the way it works. If REP forgives a $25 million debt and the company is currently worth just $50 million then they would get 1/2 ownership
41 Sideflare75 : I'm sorry but how can you possibly know this? First you were talking about the overdue payments that as far as anyone knows were repaid by the end of
42 Mariner : You weren't talking about the $25 million loan. You were talking about the late payments. In which case, $3 million would not buy very much equity. I
43 Enilria : Both are due and both will likely be converted to equity unless REP gets scared by WN. Let's just wait and see then... Just for clarity, you are sayi
44 Mariner : I think it is a very good chance that Republic will end up with a stake in Midwest. A week ago, I would have said it was almost certain - I am slight
45 Mdw22l31c : Looks like UA added a 4th flight to ONT from DEN.
46 Post contains links Mariner : And now I am back to where I was last week - fairly certain: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...small-aircraft-to-the-current.html "Republic ups
47 Enilria : They are working together I did not imply otherwise. I think, OTOH TPG is tired of devoting their time to YX and is eager for it to go away even at a
48 PSU.DTW.SCE : DTW-RIC picks up an extra frequency starting in Sept. to offset the loss of MSP-RIC. Come Septemeber, there is a HUGE rebalancing of flights across t
49 Enilria : BTW, this relatively small infusion of cash through debt makes it pretty clear that they will not have the cash to repay that loan coming due and in
50 Mariner : It is already a considerable loss, TPG's holding has been seriously written down - either 35% or 90%, depending on whom you believe. Given that, I th
51 Mariner : Oh, not really. Republic is simply "helping to buy" a new contract, a second contract, just as they "helped to buy" the E170 contract. In terms of th
52 Enilria : Whatever...
53 Post contains links Mariner : Yes. Just as they "helped to buy" the contract with Mokulele with a loan - $8 million - to "help them get started." http://industry.bnet.com/travel/1
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