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No More V Australia Plans From MEL :(  
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10646 times:

Hey guys,
Originally I posted this in the Australian Aviation thread but thought others maybe interested.

It appears V Australia has decided not to go ahead with its services out of Melbourne at this stage, Toll Dnata as VA's ground handler in Australia has let go of all staff hired for their Melbourne operations (two or three will stay to do EK PR and CZ the rest are off on their own).
Disappointing but not unexpected. Hopefully we will seem them here at some stage. Good luck to all the TDAS staff many of who left jobs to join, only to feel the brunt of the industry's fickle nature....

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10631 times:

A shame.

What about the plan to extend the SYD-LAX service to MEL instead? Is that still on the cards?


User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10618 times:



Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 1):
What about the plan to extend the SYD-LAX service to MEL instead? Is that still on the cards?

Nope, that was the original plan until September but they will not have any staff to do this now so one will presume it has been canned completely but plans have been put in place in-case it comes back into play soon but no one is holding their breath...


User currently offline747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10579 times:



Quoting Smi0006 (Thread starter):
Good luck to all the TDAS staff many of who left jobs to join, only to feel the brunt of the industry's fickle nature....

Shame, i know a few of them, will be interesting to see what comes up for them  Sad

Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 1):

What about the plan to extend the SYD-LAX service to MEL instead? Is that still on the cards?

I was looking forward to having a hop on the service between MEL and SYD.



Flown on:DHC8Q200,DHC8Q400,EMB145,E170,E190,A320,A332,A333,A343,A380,MD80,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10530 times:

Dissapointing news. In all honesty though VA seem to be in a very pracarious situation, with reported lower loads on both its routes, with a low yield on BNE flights. They are currently in process of trying to direct pax via BNE from SYD by cancelling one weekly frequency in order to do this.

They have reported interest in Japan, which is not likely to generate very successful results at current trends on the routes there, and South Africa is another destination. Somehow though I am unsure if any of these routes will work and you may see VA a victim of the current situation. DJ are not in the position to subsidise loses over a long period of time.

It would be interesting if they based these decisions on the current booking rate on flights from MEL. Unsure how they were tracking.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10371 times:



Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
It would be interesting if they based these decisions on the current booking rate on flights from MEL. Unsure how they were tracking.

If they were to start MEL flights it would also cannibalise the SYD flights. Currently there are a lot of MEL connecting pax (as well as BNE/ADL/PER) pax on the SYD flights.... If SYD is only getting 60% loads currently it would be foolish to start MEL and run both with much lower loads.


User currently offlineJetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10179 times:
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Man I was trying to get a trip in the works to be able to do the MEL flight. Maybe when the economy worldwide improves it might work but who knows how long that will take.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1985 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9568 times:

Well... Virgin Blue/V Australia have got other plans to do. They may fly to Japan, Asia and other pacific islands.


The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9523 times:



Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 6):
Man I was trying to get a trip in the works to be able to do the MEL flight. Maybe when the economy worldwide improves it might work but who knows how long that will take.

So was I. But if the economic situation was better, they could possibly just operate MEL-LAX without that stop in SYD anyway like planned, so we'd probably miss out anyway. I guess I'll just settle with the A332 on SYD-MEL.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9163 times:

Flame if you like, hate me if you must. A number of travel agents have stopped pushing VA. The hype around the airline has died. Inflight service, comfort and poor connections in LAX has meant that it is no where near QF's standard. If you have flown on them you wil understand. Its a shame, there was an opportunity but passenegers to LAX dont want LCC type service with a few trimmings.


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8478 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 9):
Flame if you like, hate me if you must. A number of travel agents have stopped pushing VA. The hype around the airline has died.

...and this highlights where the vulnerability lies in the greatly increased competition between the the US and OZ.


User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

With VA rejecting MEL, here's an opportunity for DL to start a fresh and fly to MEL direct going head to head with QF and steal passengers from United's via SYD service.

in saying that however - there's 0 brand awareness of Delta in Australia - is there any advertising in SYD, given they're starting to fly there next month?!?!


User currently offlineAirbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

A pity really, and shades of Ansett International ... the right idea at (with 20/20 hindsight in VA's case) the wrong time.

And although I have not flown on VA - just from what I've read here, and on the Skytrax site - the difference between the two being that AN Intn''l was a class act from the outset. I was fortunate enough to fly to HKG & KIX a few times in both Y & J.


User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8364 times:



Quoting Tayser (Reply 11):
h VA rejecting MEL, here's an opportunity for DL to start a fresh and fly to MEL direct going head to head with QF and steal passengers from United's via SYD service

I would have thought that if there was sufficient market then then the UA flight would be non-stop and QF would have kept the QF26 originating in MEL no? Would be nice though....

Perhaps with UA's improved premium product we could see their market share increase resulting in the non-stop flight.

On a further note would DL have the aircraft to fly the route?


User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8338 times:

On a further note would DL have the aircraft to fly the route?

According to many sources the the Delta 772LRs do no thave the range to make it to MEL.

Delta only started proper advertising of this route a few weeks ago - when they got the final go ahead(not sure by which dept or govt, but this allowed them to finally advertise the service).


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8292 times:



Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 14):

According to many sources the the Delta 772LRs do no thave the range to make it to MEL.

They should easily be able to make it to MEL.

DL flies ATL-JNB (8,439) and ATL-BOM (8,510) with the 772LR. LAX-MEL is only 7,921 miles.


User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8224 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 15):
They should easily be able to make it to MEL.

But even if the aircraft can make it do they have any that are not currently allocated to a route?


User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Does anyone know how DL and V australia are selling in the market versus United and Qantas?

User currently offlineSFOFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7782 times:

FYI... I just checked V Austalia's website and put in a random date of Tuesday, Sept 15th and was able pull up VA11 (MEL-LAX) and return on Thursday, Sep 17th on VA12 (LAX-MEL).

Wonder if they have not yet pulled the flights from their system...



UA 1K Million Mile Flyer
User currently offlineQFMel From Australia, joined Jun 2009, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7753 times:



Quoting Smi0006 (Thread starter):
Good luck to all the TDAS staff many of who left jobs to join, only to feel the brunt of the industry's fickle nature....

Agreed, tough times, best of luck to them.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 5):
If they were to start MEL flights it would also cannibalise the SYD flights. Currently there are a lot of MEL connecting pax (as well as BNE/ADL/PER) pax on the SYD flights.... If SYD is only getting 60% loads currently it would be foolish to start MEL and run both with much lower loads.

Exactly right, that's what I'd heard too. Not a happy place to be if the SYD load factor is considered comparably good- and this is at a time of record low fares when you might otherwise anticipate more bums on seats, GFC or not.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 7):
Well... Virgin Blue/V Australia have got other plans to do. They may fly to Japan, Asia and other pacific islands.

Yep, although other than flights to RSA, a 773 is going to be overkill with respect to most of the options they'd be looking at. As discussed (in the Aus aviation thread?), there's no reason why Japan shouldn't be an option at some point, provided they grow the market, rather than chasing dwindling numbers by basing their Japan flights out of BNE, CNS or OOL.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
I guess I'll just settle with the A332 on SYD-MEL.

It's a hard knock life, really!

Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 13):


I would have thought that if there was sufficient market then then the UA flight would be non-stop and QF would have kept the QF26 originating in MEL no? Would be nice though....

Yep, although as discussed elsewhere flights originating in SYD or going via SYD do tend to draw more pax from PER, ADL, CBR, BNE etc. With MEL you'd think it would be much more likely to be a reduced number of ADL connections and/or HBA, LST etc. For the life of me I would avoid flying via SYD- when I couldn't get on QF9 once I opted to fly via PER instead.

Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 16):

But even if the aircraft can make it do they have any that are not currently allocated to a route?

Thought that's what you meant, although this does seem to be a moot point, I really don't see how it would be worthwhile for DL.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7720 times:

Chinese media have reported VS' intention to extend the PVG service to Australia within 18 months. My bet is on MEL. I hope it will be BNE but MEL is more possible.

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7335 times:
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I hope VA makes it! They seem to offer a decent product and better in flight options than UA does (except for FF program). Their Y product is miles ahead of UA as well.

User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7293 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 21):
hope VA makes it! They seem to offer a decent product and better in flight options than UA does (except for FF program). Their Y product is miles ahead of UA as well.

I hope they make it too, but I am worried. Very poor reception from the USA origin traffic. No FF program for USA citizens is one main issue and very limited interlining means that UA and QF/AA are getting all the frequent travellers/critical buisness class and the bulk of all traffic from outside of LAX.



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4830 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7265 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 15):


Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 14):

According to many sources the the Delta 772LRs do no thave the range to make it to MEL.

They should easily be able to make it to MEL.

DL flies ATL-JNB (8,439) and ATL-BOM (8,510) with the 772LR. LAX-MEL is only 7,921 miles.

The 77L is the longest range aircraft out there... if QF can do it with regular 744 (although with restricted payload) or with 744ER (which have less range than 77L) then even if DL has a heavy onboard config it should still easily make the flight most of the time and perhaps be mildly restricted when the headwinds pick up (same as QF with its 744ER flights).



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7059 times:

As I've written in the NZ aviation thread, I'll be extremely surprised if Air New Zealand doesn't acquire V Australia - and possibly Virgin Blue - this year.

They can address almost all the problems in terms of USA-originating traffic, given that flights would earn miles on UA, CO, US and AC.

Having said that, it's also not out of the question that Virgin Blue and V Australia might end up as Continental Australia, although there would be a lot of regulatory hurdles there. The group would be at least as good a fit for CO as Continental Micronesia, and with Guam ramping up as a military fortress with increasing numbers of American servicemen there is a certain logic to it.


25 ETA Unknown : Flight Centre is advertising SYD-SFO in biz class for under $3K. When you go to the website for more info, the airline isn't listed BUT the same fare
26 Jetfuel : I hope you right. DJ/VA need some long trem experience behind it
27 Koruman : I can only assume that this is a wrongly-loaded Premium Economy fare or one-way Business Class: Best Flights are currently selling V Australia, Air N
28 Airbear : Hi Koruman, that would be a dream outcome, but I can't see anything like that happening until the GFC has well and truly passed. IMO hard to see any
29 MEA : Interesting prediction... Air NZ to acquire Virgin Blue/V Australia, hopefully we don't see a repeat of the Air NZ/Ansett Australia situation.
30 QFMel : It's size is increasing as other forward bases are scaled back or closing- there has been a pronounced shift in troops from ROK and Japan to Guam- II
31 DeltaL1011man : Yes but they would become very tight on 777s again something IMO they want to do (so tight that if a bird has to leave for a HMV or something they ha
32 Brons2 : Huh? DL's 772LR can make it with near MZFW. I think you need to fire your sources. Yeah, nobody in the US really knows about V Australia other than a
33 QFMel : In the words of the former Lord Mayor of Melbourne, 'everyone is welcome'. Would be great if this came to pass, but then again I won't hold my breath
34 Alangirvan : Is there a bit of V Australia trying a bit too much too soon with a fleet that will only have four planes this year? SYD LAX was the obvious route to
35 DeltaL1011man : hahaha I wouldn't count on it because I believe SYD is going to fail......and fail very badly but if it does somehow work MEL will be looked at for t
36 Lightsaber : First, interesting tidbits on Virgin Australia in the thread. I was under the impression that QF effectively cornered the travel agent market through
37 WorldTraveler : . No restrictions of any kind are needed... nor are 115s. The 110 is the standard engine on the LR and the LR/110 combination is more than capable of
38 Smi0006 : I think people have a tendency to overestimate the Melbourne USA market, UA are not even non-stop and QF only have one flight daily with the QF26 via
39 IndianicWorld : I think that UA's issue with MEL non-stops is its aircraft not being capable of flying the routes year round without weight restriction. The market i
40 QANTAS077 : VA has some crazy fares out for industry too, less than $3000 for a return from BNE to LAX, just on $1000 in Y+ and less than $700 for economy.
41 VirginFlyer : I've thought for some time now that it could make sense for the two of airlines to pursue some form of cooperation between Australia and the USA. I'm
42 DeltaL1011man : Thats because they haven't had the loads that they thought they would. Fact is its been running with alot of upgrades and Non-revs in C and Y is next
43 ANstar : Great idea if you have spare seats up fro grabs - get people onboard and talking about your product. Everyone in this threads seems very quick to jum
44 Cruiseshipcrew : I'm booked on V Australia on July 21st. I got RT flights to Mel from LAX for just shy of $700. I almost paid $200 extra to fly on Delta. The reason wh
45 Hikarufree : I certainly am eager to try them as well. I'm taking them to SYD via BNE from LAX on 15 July. (Also gives a chance to try DJ, even though I can't say
46 ETA Unknown : The suspected V Australia Australia-LAX fare is still advertised on week later, so doubt its a premium economy fare error at this stage.
47 Sydscott : Three points of note; 1. Air New Zealand is majority owned by the New Zealand Government. Given the Australian Governments unofficial policy to China
48 Gemuser : Err? The fact that NZ has some 20/25 years more exprience than SQ makes this a very strange statement. Gemuser
49 Sydscott : So what? Experience isn't just measured in years. And if it wasn't for the NZ Government NZ's "experience" would have come to an abrupt end in 2001.
50 Airbear : Hi Sydscott and all & sundry... it still amazes me that after all this time (since 1999/2000) that anyone still believes that SQ will be the Great Wh
51 Alangirvan : Why do people think Singapore Airlines is a bottomless pit of money? They invested a huge amount of money in Virgin Atlantic, I am not sure if this mo
52 Cruiseshipcrew : Have LFs come up on V's flights to SYD? I'm flying them in Y on the 20th of July..wonder what the odds are of getting a empty seat next to me are.
53 Post contains links Mariner : To be fair, it isn't just this thread. Articles like this one - citing Macquarie as a source - do the same: http://www.etravelblackboard.com/showarti
54 Sydscott : I don't think that. I'm a QF fanboy just ask anyone. They could always do a deal with SRB. Get rid of the shareholding in Virgin Atlantic which has n
55 Post contains links Mariner : It the article making the claim, not I. As in: "Industry insiders say that the Virgin Blue Group is struggling to stem major losses at two of its sub
56 OzTech : Not a hope in hells chance.. We are ramping up NZ Domestic with 2 more 737NG and 2 Emb a/c..
57 Mariner : Something may have to give - somewhere. Like most places in the world, the New Zealand travel market is finite and there are now three airlines chasi
58 NZ107 : Wow. -700s or more -800s? This could be the move to get them that much better than Jetstar in terms of frequency and service within New Zealand. I'm
59 PIESCF : This is a very interesting post, as others have said there is a great deal of competition on the route, and prices are falling. There is a good chance
60 Aussie_ : Has anyone actually confirmed MEL-LAX is gone? It is still for sale and my info is that despite looking at it, VA have decided to stick with the route
61 Sydscott : I note that they aren't clarifying exactly who the "industry insiders" are as well. Again, I'm sure Brett Godfrey wouldn't be re-deploying aircraft t
62 Mariner : They do name Macquarie Equities, who are part of Macquarie Bank. As in: "Macquarie Equities estimates that Pacific Blue will lose $11 million loss be
63 NZ107 : No they're not, but who told them that whatever happens in the Australian market is duplicated when talking about the New Zealand market? This, espec
64 Post contains images Mariner : Since they also have offices in New Zealand, I assume they analyze the New Zealand business market as well. They say they do. Whether anyone trusts t
65 DJ738 : Can I politely query where this info comes from? We haven't heard anything of the sort at PB in NZL...
66 Sydscott : They're not exactly drongo's at buying assets, loading them up with debt and flogging them off during boom times to make money for themselves that's
67 ANstar : It still shows a sbookable in the GDS systems and they are still advertising it in the press.
68 Airbear : You are forgiven! Have you anything else to confess, my son? Yes.And that's another thing! It has always amazed me that a truly great carrier such as
69 Thegeek : I agree. They mightn't have as deep pockets as QF, but surely they can sustain a few losses in the first few years. Although Delta starting SYD-LAX d
70 Mariner : Of course. But you said that the article didn't name its sources, and I was simply pointing out that they did name at least one. That doesn't mean I
71 Smi0006 : I can't confirm for you that they aren't going to stick with the route in the future, but for now they have fired all their Melbourne groundstaff, so
72 Jetfuel : I am asking that this topic be deleted or locked. There is no news from VA that MEL-LAX has been dropped. From VA website - Melbourne - Los Angeles is
73 Smi0006 : It will certainly be interesting to see how this route preforms then with no check-in agents.......
74 ANstar : Is it possible they have given the business to another ground service provider?
75 Jetfuel : Original Poster Age: 16-20 Country: Australia Location: Melbourne Occupation: Ground-Staff
76 Scbriml : In view of the lack of firm news confirming this, there seems little point in continuing the discussion. Thread locked.
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