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AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 12  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 57690 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

This is part 12 regarding the disappearance of AF flight 447, continuing from the previous thread:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4436220/

As requested before:

We understand that media reports are often littered with errors, especially regarding technical areas of aviation. While it may be worth pointing these out, please avoid having the discussion focus on these points - these will be considered off-topic contributions.

Please also remember that it will be likely that the media will be checking this thread; please try to make sure that your posts are conducive to a constructive discussion and are based on facts. Please try to steer away from wild speculation.

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273 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 57314 times:

Does anyone have a video link to this morning's press conference in Paris?

Thank you.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10906 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 57211 times:



Quoting Comorin (Reply 2):

From the BEA briefing this morning:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-acars-sent-24-error-messages.html



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 57042 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):

Thank you Madame !


User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 57087 times:

Anyway, if someone can point me to more reliable source than "people from AF that would like to remain anonymous" of speculation that AF is quickly replacing all pitot tubes on all Airbus aircraft , please feel free to do so.

User currently offlinePmk From United States of America, joined May 1999, 664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 56898 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 6):
Anyway, if someone can point me to more reliable source than "people from AF that would like to remain anonymous" of speculation that AF is quickly replacing all pitot tubes on all Airbus aircraft , please feel free to do so.

How about the associated press.

Fair use excerpt:

"An Air France memo Friday said it is replacing Pitot tubes on all medium- and long-haul Airbus jets."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090606/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane
Accessed 6/6/09 9:14AM EST.

PMK


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9156 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 56583 times:



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
you must have an opinion.

My opinion, out of respect of those has been lost will not make it to a.net. Unscrupulous persons (or even the press) may take that information out of context, and it may in turn cause distress to the friends/families/colleagues of those lost. A plethora of professionals are working on finding not only the aircraft, but also the probable cause. They will make their findings available in due course when they have the full weight of available information. It is still very early days.

I have a number of theories on the list of cascading messages, but they are only bounced off people who are in the game, or on the simulator. Those messages in my view are only symptoms, nothing in that list should bring down an A330, but what would I know, only been flying them now for over 10 years.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 56544 times:



Quoting Pmk (Reply 5):

How about the associated press.

How about the actual text for the memo:

Quote:

Par ailleurs, l’ensemble des actions concernant les risques de perte
d’informations an€mom€triques, d€finies ant€rieurement dans nos plans
d’actions, est maintenu avec notamment, l’am€lioration des mod‡les de
pitots install€s sur l’ensemble des flottes Airbus moyens et longs courriers.

A ce titre, une campagne de remplacement des pitots par de nouveaux
mod‡les est en cours. Elle doit s’achever dans les prochaines semaines.

Also for those wondering about the timing,etc:

Quote:
PARIS – The agency investigating the crash of Flight 447 says Air France had not replaced instruments that measure air speed on the plane, which the manufacturer had recommended.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090606/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane

1 Hour old, and seems to indicate AF had *potentially* faulty hardware onboard the AC.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2761 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 56355 times:

No debris found from the plane, that crashed into the sea five days ago.
Has there ever been a similar case?
I mean how long took it to find debris from the Adam Air B 737 or the Egypt Air B 767 (or maybe other cases)?


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 56194 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):
My opinion, out of respect of those has been lost will not make it to a.net. Unscrupulous persons (or even the press) may take that information out of context, and it may in turn cause distress to the friends/families/colleagues of those lost.

Opinion noted - and genuinely respected, Zeke. 'Shouts' professionalism,which I deeply respect and understand.

Problem is (and I've faced similar dilemmas myself, though fewer of them likely to be fatal) - if there IS a problem, and it remains unresolved, the same damn thing could be happening AGAIN as we speak.......

Not recommending any sudden 'volte-faces.' Most of my professional career was spent devising remedies for problems AFTER they'd happened, only very rarely before..........

Anyway, hopefully some conscientious professional bugger - like I used to be, and you still are - will blow the whistle before it's too late.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 56100 times:



Quoting N14AZ (Reply 8):
No debris found from the plane, that crashed into the sea five days ago.
Has there ever been a similar case?
I mean how long took it to find debris from the Adam Air B 737 or the Egypt Air B 767 (or maybe other cases)?

I've written in previous part:

- TWA Flight 800 wreckage was found almost instantly (due to proximity to land)
- SAA Flight 295 "Helderberg" wreckage was found within 12 hours some 500km from the coast of Mauritius
- Adam Air Flight 574 was found in about a week less than 100km off the coast of Sulawesi

add to this:
- EgyptAir Flight 990 found by the morning (some 4-6 hours perhaps?), ~150-200km from land

- AF447 missing for more than 6 days now, albeit it is probably the most remote sea crash so far


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 56019 times:

Ok, so now its the official statement that the weather was "normal with no anomalies" when before it was heavy thunderstorms, and also pictures were showing that. A bit strange.

As things develop or are made public it looks more and more like technical faults at least contributed or initated the desaster.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 8):
No debris found from the plane, that crashed into the sea five days ago

Didnt the Brazilians say they had detected aircraft seats and debris in different locations far away from another? Are ALL those parts found in different places just "normal" ocean trash, including the "kerosene" trail? Seems some people talked rubbish again or they are hiding something from the public. At least they must know by now wether the fuel found is kerosene or a ship diesel fuel, dont you think? That cant be difficult to find out. Why is nothing said about that?

Quoting Borism (Reply 4):
AF is quickly replacing all pitot tubes on all Airbus aircraft , please feel free to do so.

If true I guess thats only a precautionary measure. Unless something AF knows already is hidden from the public.


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 55558 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
Problem is (and I've faced similar dilemmas myself, though fewer of them likely to be fatal) - if there IS a problem, and it remains unresolved, the same damn thing could be happening AGAIN as we speak.......

Although we don't yet know that it wasn't a single point event that caused this crash, the fact that the A330 fleet could fly hundreds of thousands of hours (or more) over the course of a decade + before a unique set of circumstances lines up in just the right sequence to cause a crash speaks volumes for the safety of the A330 and the air transportation system in general.

I must wonder if the 737 fleet had been limited to just, say, 500 airframes vs 6000 if the rudder problems ever would have surfaced.... Likewise we will never know what problems might have surfaced in the Concorde, Space Shuttle, or Mercure programs had they been built in large numbers....



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User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 55498 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Didnt the Brazilians say they had detected aircraft seats and debris in different locations far away from another? Are ALL those parts found in different places just "normal" ocean trash, including the "kerosene" trail? Seems some people talked rubbish again or they are hiding something from the public. At least they must know by now wether the fuel found is kerosene or a ship diesel fuel, dont you think? That cant be difficult to find out. Why is nothing said about that?

They said that nothing they picked up from debris field was from plane. Oil wasn't Jet-A either.

They don't hide anything, they simply still don't know location of the plane themselves.

They also said that they won't speculate anymore, until they find conclusive proof (detail with part number that belongs to F-GZCP) that debris is from AF447.


User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 55491 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 10):
the most remote sea crash so far

I believe that it is the reason - flight was not tracked by radars, position was not reported by pilots...



I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 55362 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
At least they must know by now wether the fuel found is kerosene or a ship diesel fuel, dont you think? That cant be difficult to find out. Why is nothing said about that?

They do. It was shipping oil (I don't know the specifics of if it was diesel or bunker fuel). I believe it was stated in either the previous thread or the one before it.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1603 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 55363 times:

Still it is a kind of misterious that virtually nothing is found. Not a sibgle artifact.

Assuming that a/c became desintegrated, so to say, at such an altitude - it is odd to me that nothing is /was floating.
No seat parts, no safe jackets - nothing.

Tomorrow will be a week, and all sorts of things that can float - may be brought by currents hundreds miles away from the site. Currents are very strong there.

Guess debries will not help at this point.
Thus, sending submarine makes sense.
Actually having in mind how huge the space to search is - one submarine may be not enough.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 55203 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 13):
They also said that they won't speculate anymore, until they find conclusive proof (detail with part number that belongs to F-GZCP) that debris is from AF447.

Good. Anything else will just create useless media hype.

Quoting LH648 (Reply 14):
Quoting Borism (Reply 10):
the most remote sea crash so far

I believe that it is the reason - flight was not tracked by radars, position was not reported by pilots...

There are a few more unresolved jet airliner losses at sea, although those happened long time ago. I vaguely remember a Varig (?) freighter with a lot of paintings on board.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 54756 times:



Quoting Pmk (Reply 5):
"An Air France memo Friday said it is replacing Pitot tubes on all medium- and long-haul Airbus jets."

That's being largely explored by Brazilian media and I fear that Air France will suffer a big image crisis here. Here is an example of a headline: Air France knew about the problem in the sensor.


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 54580 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
That's being largely explored by Brazilian media and I fear that Air France will suffer a big image crisis here. Here is an example of a headline: Air France knew about the problem in the sensor.

The sad/scary part of that headline is, it's more accurate than about 80% of the 'news' that/s been released about this accident. After all, AF was advised to replace the parts by the manufacturer (please don't mistake what I'm saying as a shot at AF... I'm *100%* positive no one expected the replace to be urgent or that replacing as time permits would possibly result in an accident of any kind. No one (really) wants to kill or injur others.)



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 54523 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Seems some people talked rubbish again or they are hiding something from the public.

My guess is that they don't have anything LIKE the 'capacity' required, NA.

Been to Brazil a couple of times. Lovely people. No exaggeration, IMO they're the world's most charming and engaging nation.You were genuinely 'in their hearts' within five minutes - or even 30 seconds.......

But in terms of investigating an accident that happened the best part of 1,000 nms. away, in the 'other' hemisphere, forget it. They don't HAVE the capacity; and, not living in the shadow of a nuclear 'war to the death,' they don't even need it........

They're kind of 'more realistic.' Or maybe just more sensible......



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13140 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 54402 times:

Here in the USA, the media attention as to the loss of AF447 has continued at a high profile into this morning. CNN, other sat/cable news stations, national broadcast stations and some local stations news programs in NY CIty all have given some attention to it every day, some with more extensive reports as to the potential causes. This seems to be exceptional as it doesn't involve a USA airliner, a flight to/from the USA, few Americans on board. Perhaps is it is still a story due to the tremendous mystery still existing as to the cause of this loss, the lack of evidence as to the aircraft itself, that 200+ people are lost.

Hopefully in the next few days we will see some evidence, like some parts from this a/c, the recovery of the recorders and we can hear in the news about some preliminary understanding of what happend to cause this terrible loss.


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 54341 times:
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Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 16):
Still it is a kind of misterious that virtually nothing is found. Not a sibgle artifact.

You are underestimating 3 things:

1. The size of the Atlantic Ocean, even when reduced to a "reasonable" search area.

2. The "spotability" of an A330 when broken up into small pieces and set against the item in #1

3. The ability of a handful of human eyeballs in 10 aircraft (maybe more now) to find "anything" given #1 & #2.

Needle in a haystack would be childs play in comparison.



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User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10906 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 54025 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 16):
Assuming that a/c became desintegrated

As to the Comet Air pilots report, could this accident possibly be due to a meteorite strke?
I am just asking a question. No conspiracy stuff intended.  alert   airplane 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 53954 times:



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 19):
The sad/scary part of that headline is, it's more accurate than about 80% of the 'news' that/s been released about this accident.

My problem with it is the accusative tone. People will just reproduce the accusations 1 to 1 without context and after G31907 and JJ3054, Brazilians have become very sensible when it comes to plane crashes.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 20):
But in terms of investigating an accident that happened the best part of 1,000 nms. away, in the 'other' hemisphere, forget it. They don't HAVE the capacity; and, not living in the shadow of a nuclear 'war to the death,' they don't even need it........

If you don't correct that sentence to "the Brazilian military forces don't have the capacity" (and they really don't), I'll be offended. Brazil really doesn't make that kind of investment in the military, but millions are being spent now in order to look for the debris.


25 Bramble : A problem with this memo is that I read it to mean they are going to replace all the pitot tubes as a matter of routine MX. The media reads it as "AF
26 Borism : Well, they shouldn't have claimed on Tuesday 2nd of June that it was definitely AF447. Confirming that oil spill, wooden box, oil drum and a "large p
27 Post contains links Bennett123 : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8086860.stm It looks to me that they were manoevering away from the worst of the storm. The bit about Autopilot be
28 RobertS975 : There are many reasons that the interest is so high in the USA... First, this is a most unusual accident in that it occurred at cruise more or less m
29 Post contains links N14AZ : It's not stupid - it was mentioned in at least on of the 11 threads before and I remember there was a "near miss" before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik
30 TSS : My thoughts as well. Look how long it took to find the wreckage of Steve Fossett's crashed Bellanca... granted it was a much smaller aircraft, but it
31 FCA767 : Aren't the papers just reporting the Old 2002 Pitot Replacement and making it look like new news?
32 ThrottleHold : I've seen various posters here and reports on media outlets about the A/P being "switched off". Just to clarify: The automatic A/P disconnection is a
33 Post contains links AVLNative : More rampant speculation in the press... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ir-France-plane-was-it-a-bomb.html Air France plane: was it a bomb? An
34 Mir : The flight plan is programmed in before takeoff, but it can easily be modified any time after that, including in flight. Number of waypoints shouldn'
35 Osiris30 : Well that's always the rub with the media.. *just* the facts is boring and doesn't sell papers/ads. Having said that we (the pulblic) are reasonable
36 Khobar : Yes, a bomb could very easily be "technically" responsible for the loss. And what are the so-called experts basing their dismissal on? No radar, no r
37 NAV20 : Sincere apologies, CO10T3 - as far as you reckon they are required. But to my mind the basic difference between the two hemispheres is that a large p
38 ThrottleHold : Length of flight isn't directly related to the number of waypoints. I've done 3 hour internal European flights which have twice as many waypoints as
39 Haggis79 : well, above all there's the fact that the ACARS message about pressure loss came about four minutes after the first error messages.... if it had been
40 IFly2Eat : Autopilots being off in cruise is not strange at all. I would not even consider it "out of the norm." Back in the 727 days autopilots would disconnect
41 ContnlEliteCMH : About what are you offended? I don't understand. You just admitted "and they really don't." Even they have admitted "they really don't". For example,
42 Post contains links Sniffmom : That headline seems to be presupposing that there was a general problem with those sensors. Has such a problem been reported ? (Edit: Reported after
43 KingFriday013 : The post C010T3 was responding to referred to Brazilians in general; obviously this is not true. Regarding their military, on the other hand, that ma
44 Post contains links Ba6590 : Bodies found according to BBC... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8087303.stm
45 Post contains images Mandala499 : It can only explained one part of what happened, how and to what extent can not be pinned down to the degree needed in an investigation. I do however
46 TommyBP251b : According to CNN 2 bodies, a seat an some debris was also found. Let's hope this time it belongs to AF 447.
47 OA260 : Yes I hope so also. I doubt they would say it unless it was true after the last announcement that turned out to be un true.
48 TommyBP251b : BREAKING on CNN 2 male bodies have been found. Furthermore a AF flight ticket and a Bag with a Laptop.
49 Borism : I wonder what was the location of the findings?
50 Slinky09 : BBC Says 400 miles North East of the islands of Fernando de Noronha.
51 Post contains links Woodentom : the bbc say that two bodies were founds along with objects linked to passengers 400 miles NE of Fernando de Noronha. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/
52 Ellehammer09 : As an employee in the media business, I must imply you to be aware of the circumstances regarding matters of this kind. Allmost anyone working in the
53 Post contains links KingFriday013 : http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...6/06/brazil.plane.crash/index.html -J.
54 Vfw614 : AP says it was close to the suspected crash site, whatever that means.
55 FuturePilot16 : Well two male bodies have been found along with more debris. The article also stated that ocean currents could have scattered debris far along the oce
56 Cytz_pilot : Thank you for posting that. It gave me some fodder when I wrote an angry letter to the editor of a newspaper that I read. I said that if you're going
57 Vfw614 : Btw, the details have apparently been leaked by one of the relatives of the victims who were briefed earlier today by the defence secretary. Official
58 MadameConcorde : PPRune post The Brazilian AF issued a number of releases earlier this afternoon, indicating that two bodies had been located and retrieved, along with
59 MadameConcorde : From same PPRuNe poster in Rio de Janeiro (copy/paste) Further to my previous post, Brazilian Navy corvette Caboclo is currently carrying out retrieva
60 Post contains images Hardiwv : Brazil Air Force now confirmed that 2 bodies and plane parts were collected from Atlantic Ocean today in the morning as follows: - 2 males bodies, one
61 Zilla : Within the first 24hrs there was a report of a TAM flight which had seen fiery debris on the ocean. This plane arrived in Brazil and then discovered A
62 CityhopperNL : Wow, this is pretty fresh news, and pretty good news as well although that sounds a bit strange of course. It is strange however that it was found in
63 Post contains links MadameConcorde : From The Aviation Herald Crash: Air France A332 over Atlantic on June 1st 2009, aircraft impacted ocean Crash: Air France A332 over Atlantic on June 1
64 Post contains links Loalq : Also reported today that IB6024 GIG-MAD left Rio 7 minutes after AF447 and was following AF (with around 10 min separation) up to the moment that the
65 Cc2314 : There still has been no specific info on where the tam flight was,cant find anything on the net about its routing etc
66 Post contains links Hardiwv : This is very interesting. Also today published in Brazilian media information that about 70% of the flights between Europe and South America have to
67 NAV20 : Shoot! 'They' have been talking about anything up to 800nms North-East. As an ex-artillleryman, all I can say is what they used to say to me when I m
68 Post contains links Carls : From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/brazil_plane By MARCO SIBAJA and EMMA VANDORE Marco Sibaja And Emma Vandore – 30 mins ago RECIFE, Brazil – Search
69 Pylon101 : Those the findings mentioned remind us of the tragedy - still it is the very first - and important - step in the investigation. As to US public reacti
70 757GB : Welcome aboard Ellehammer09! Thanks for the perspective. I must say I agree with your post 100% Regards, GB
71 Ellehammer09 : Well, maybe a bit off topic, but still to be concidered in the conclussions made in here - anyways, thx
72 David L : Apples and oranges. You would have been aiming for something, the location of which was pretty well known. You would very possibly have observers at
73 Post contains links and images Hardiwv : As illustration of the magnitute of the operation carried out so far, here are the pictures of some of the Brazilian aircraft and ships used: R-99. S
74 UALWN : I read this as: "The set of actions concerning the risks of loss of anemometric information, previously defined in our plans of action, are maintaine
75 MadameConcorde : I will say thank you to the Nation of Brazil for deploying all this equipment and hard work to help locating the AF447 aircraft parts and human remain
76 Post contains links and images Matheus : Very nice post Hardiwv. If you excuse me, just correcting the R99 photo. The one in your post is used for Amazon airspace surveillance, and the one th
77 Post contains links Alianza : The two bodies and a suitcase found on Saturday morning "...about 70 kilometers (45 miles) south of where Air Flight 447 emitted its last signals —
78 Trystero : Pretty impressive. I hope this shows to many people, specially here in Portugal, that there is another Brazil, much different than the one we're used
79 Post contains links Dc10s2hnl : As in previous posts, this highlights the issue of the horrendous amount of trash in the ocean. If a trans-Pacific flight crashed into the Great Paci
80 Borism : Did R-99 really find the bodies? I would think it either was a ship or a helicopter, not a plane? Either way, they at least know where about to look f
81 Loalq : Coordinates for the location that the bodies were found: 03 34.08º N, 030 27.30º W.
82 Comorin : AFAIK, to look into the ocean, you have to be in the ocean? Does the R-99's mission extend below sea level? I thought the air/water interface was mos
83 Vfw614 : A Swiss newspaper quotes French paper Le Figaro that one of the bodies was still strapped to its seat and carried the boarding pass
84 Post contains links Hardiwv : I dont have this information, but you may find some sources here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_R-99 You may also search on Embraer's defense w
85 Khobar : Not necessarily - depends on the size and type of the bomb and where it went off. For example, Philippine Airlines Flight 434 experienced an inflight
86 PPVRA : Yes, that is the information in the Brazilian press as well. RIP, AF447
87 FCKC : Two bodies were found and a seat , which is confirmed as being really one of the A330 , referring to the serial number of it.
88 Hardiwv : The serial number of the aircraft seat is 237011038331-0. The leather suitcase contained an airline ticket of Air France and one bag with laptop insi
89 Post contains images Mandala499 : Which are? Most of these items are located below deck, and in front of the front doors... The lower hold is pressurized too. And the A330 don't have
90 Ellehammer09 : Suddenly not the first ones with the news, but maybe the first to pin out the gruesome details of the crash - which I would concider to be kind of un
91 PPVRA : There's an article in the Brazilian media suggesting a rudder failure, as in complete structural failure. It cites a message sent in the last four mi
92 Gigneil : It indicates a rudder travel limit exceeded. Which as has been pointed out in other threads, by people that know, could mean very little since it coul
93 Vfw614 : Arte you talking to me or about the paper...? Whatever, the information that a body was still buckled up and strapped to the seat may very well be im
94 David L : The last message on the list of ACARS messages we've seen showed a warning about the rudder travel limiter, not that the rudder had failed. A lot had
95 David L : Does it? Or does it mean there was a problem with the limiting fuction?
96 Mandala499 : PPVRA, Not sure, but what kind of rudder failure are they talking about? If rudder failure as a result then yes, but at 0214GMT or after. If it was ru
97 Mandala499 : Well, as we've discussed before, for one, the limiting function need airspeed data, which, we see, flag on the PFDs and the autopilot quittings may h
98 Gigneil : My understanding is that the message occurs when the travel limiter is exceeded, which could indicate massive force or presumably it could also mean t
99 Post contains links Hiflyer : [quote=]A Swiss newspaper quotes French paper Le Figaro[/quote] and they told two friends and they told two friends and so on and so on. It just sorta
100 Iberiadc852 : My thoughts for the bomb possibility: Prior to the crash What are the chances of any combination of malfunctions/human errors/wheather events that lea
101 Honeythief : Well said Ellehammer09. I see no need to post details over and above what's required for the discussions that are taking place on the forum to contin
102 David L : ... or that limits were no longer being imposed on rudder travel because the system no longer knew what the limits should be? If the rudder had been
103 Scarebus03 : The pitot probe issue is a red herring and is because some idiot journalist was looking for something to blame on the two biggest protagnists in the d
104 Vfw614 : Well, it has also been reported by Brasilian media (see above). Most news these days comes from news agencies. I doubt that Le Figaro or the Swiss ne
105 Vfw614 : The "graphic details" some of you are so afraid of discussing will probably be the most useful clues to what has happened to AF447 if the flight data
106 TristarSteve : You are imagining a lot. Rudder Travel Limiter is not unusual to see. I see it at work about once a month. I reset the computor and it usually goes a
107 FCA767 : That's 500 miles almost directly north of the fernando island...did it really fly that far past? I keep running this horrible accident through my min
108 N14AZ : While I agree with you in general, I don't think that this was a gruesome detail. I am not an expert, but - if it turns out to be true - the fact tha
109 AirlineCritic : Thank you for a very informative post! I have a couple of additional questions. Where are the satellite uplink antennas located, physically? Where do
110 Mandala499 : Insensitive as this may sound but this is a simplistic answer: Never had the successful ditching many had hoped for... If they bodies don't have life
111 David L : It's not a question of whether or not we're "afraid" of discussing such details on this internet forum. It's a question of what's fair for the victim
112 Honeythief : I'm not afraid to discuss anything that's relevant, but I don't see the significance of that piece of information. After all, where would we expect t
113 AirlineCritic : Impact site = last known location + normal flight from there (including possible weather avoidance maneuvers) + any flying the A330 did during the ac
114 Sniffmom : In this case I think the fact that a body was found strapped to his seat is a detail of the informative kind. The way that body was found is an instan
115 Laxboeingman : Is it true that bodies and a brief case were found near the "scene". Was there a cargo ship that sank in the same area as to where the plane went down
116 Hiflyer : Sorry if I was misunderstood....a slew of media have reported the finding of bodies and the finding of a seat....but not a body strapped in a seat. I
117 Loalq : Yes...and in fact it is just 70 km (around 40 mi) from the location of the last automatic report sent by the aircraft, but take into consideration th
118 Laxboeingman : Have they located where the bodies have been found, and have they searched for the remains of anything else in that area?
119 Pygmalion : Pax not in seat that died by drowning points to far different scenario (failed ditching perhaps) than finding a pax belted into a seat that died from
120 Mandala499 : I have just closed the FCOM a few minutes ago to get ready to sleep... let me look it up or maybe someone can answer. Off the top of my head... Satco
121 Khobar : The ACARS messages are reactions to whatever happened - they do not point to a specific cause. Oddly enough, at least some A320/A330/A340 do, in fact
122 DeltaWings : What about that report of a Spanish pilot,-I assume of the IB flight to MAD that took off something like 20 min later - who mentioned seeing some kind
123 Vfw614 : Come on guys, this political correctness is bordering absurdity. An aircraft that has departed with 228 souls on board has crashed with no survivors -
124 David L : The investigation has barely begun. I'm not sure what you mean. Whoever found the bodies would have known where they were when they found them.
125 LH648 : My calculations gave me only 9.3 km
126 Mandala499 : In addressing the pressure drop... I agree... That's why it can only be determined as unlikely, but doesn't mean an unconditional no. There's just no
127 PhB95 : Speaking of the state of the body or of missing parts would be the graphic elements you (and me) don't want to hear about. The fact that a passenger
128 ThrottleHold : The F/CTL RUD TRVL LIM FAULT message has been generated due to the NAV ADR DISAGREE message and NOT due to a fault in the Rudder Travel Limiter itsel
129 Mandala499 : At least we are all (I hope) not into the "Horror"/"Terror" headline bandwagon and use that for our discussions... Didn't mean to lecture, but just c
130 Scarebus03 : Throttlehold, I stand corrected, welcome to my RU list. It has been a few years since I last dealt with the A330 and your information is certainly a b
131 David L : As I pointed out, I was not taking issue with that particular news item. I was taking issue with your implication that anything that's useful, no mat
132 Vfw614 : I was not referring to you, no need to worry. Despite the fact that some folks may feel offended, I want to ask this question in relation to the fact
133 Mgmacius : Jesus, thas it mean, that the plane transmitted all messages seconds before crash? Is it possible then (not jumping to any conclusions), that it coul
134 Zeke : Your post has a number of inaccuracies, because you are trying to use the FCOM to understand AMM/TSM codes, a number of conclusions you are drawing a
135 Borism : IMHO (a) and (c) are unlikely if he indeed was still strapped to seat, as forces are too high in (a) and too low in (c). Sorry if anyone feels offend
136 Sniffmom : If I remember correctly, that happened in Lockerbie.
137 Post contains images Akhristov : I'm going to disagree with both of you here. You're reading a topic about a plane crash. Many people here keep asking for more information, and that'
138 Honeythief : Let's look back to the post (shown above) that has prompted this 'sub-discussion' about what is appropriate to post. Perhaps we should just stop disc
139 Avek00 : Air France will be "in legal trouble" no matter what -- it's strictly liable for the deaths of those on board. The only questions remaining are 1) to
140 N14AZ : Yes, I think so too. I had just written almost the same sentence when I saw your post. If I remember correctly the seat has been found in a tree.
141 Scarebus03 : It is certainly true that AF will bear a certain liability for this incident as the operator. What I find interesting is the fact that the following
142 Post contains links Borism : 08h07 - The C-130 visually confirms the existence of debris in the area. 08h14 - The Corbeta Caboclo arrives to collect a blue armchair with serial nu
143 Post contains links Vfw614 : Well, if you check the various news reports, there are quite a few that say that one passengers was in his seat. Sources quoted for that are either B
144 FCA767 : I see now...had a look on google earth before i read your posts...I used Wikipedia to see where the last contact co-ords where... Thanks anyway
145 Post contains links Hardiwv : Media source in Brazil said that France's Le Figaro stated that one body was in his seat and also carried his boarding card. However, the media sourc
146 Vfw614 : Thanks. That would explain why I could not find it at lefigaro.fr., but only on various other sites quoting Le Figaro. Problem is that a lot of respe
147 Spartanmjf : From the most recent statement of Air France on its website. They report the initial issues with tubes to involve A320 series aircraft and that a repl
148 Post contains links Borism : Frankly, I don't care what "media sources in place X" say. I follow SAR mission web site of Força Aérea Brasileira at http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/
149 Honeythief : I don't think that you can really draw any conclusions as to the likely scenario. Whether the aircraft disintegrated at altitude or on impact, I thin
150 Hardiwv : " target=_blank>http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/capa/in...oo447 I agree and it is from FAB webiste that I built post 73. You are welcome. There are no d
151 Post contains images Pihero : If I may, again, I'd ask posters to be very careful with their arguments, as it is very obvious that what we write in this forum and a very few others
152 Vfw614 : " target=_blank>http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/capa/in...oo447 Thanks for the link. Although I would suspect the FAB to now hold back some information
153 Hardiwv : This is normal considering what is at stake and the enormous media pressure. Honestly, I think there is no reason for the French or anyone else to be
154 Aerdingus : Nicely put, if not beautifully. Although parts of this thread have been very educational in how the A330 works, I think sometimes we get vulture like
155 Scarebus03 : The point from the website is well taken however even if all the pitot probes froze in cruise the barometric altimeters would still work and the rada
156 Denverdanny : Well, intact bodies says to me inflight break up. With Swissair 111, AA 191, and any other high speed impact crashes, there wasn't much to pick up, at
157 Pilotaydin : Things may or may not have happened quickly...we can't really tell, using as a baseline the fact that pilots did not radio a lot or at all, is worthle
158 Ellehammer09 : Sry, I wasn't specifically talking about you, but the media as a whole.. It was just meant as an request to keep the threads clean from dramatic deta
159 XT6Wagon : Doesn't mean that it broke up, or was breaking up at that time. It could be that the automatic control was offline and the pilots definitely had bett
160 Vfw614 : Thanks. That was the sort of information I was hoping for. That's absolutely true. Nevertheless, I am under the impression that the Brazilian offical
161 OA260 : These things are always going to come out as they did with Pan Am over lockerbie. We dont need to know these things but they always come out in the e
162 FrmrCAPCADET : I suspect that if any of us were victims of a fatal crash, and our bodies were able to provide some useful information about the cause, we would want
163 Khobar : Statistically, flying is safer than driving - except for every single person who died on that flight. Your point?
164 C010T3 : I beg your pardon? Thank you.
165 Khobar : I absolutely agree with you!
166 Type-Rated : Plus a medical examiner can reveal a lot of things about a way the person died after examining the bodies. Bodies can also "trap" projectiles, and rev
167 Ellehammer09 : You said it, I rest my case
168 PlanesNTrains : I have had moments where I'd like to comment or question things in this thread, but I am beginning to feel that this is not acceptable outside of some
169 Canoecarrier : Sorry to proceed down the morbid, but I find it hard to believe he was still strapped in his seat. I've picked up several airline seats before and th
170 Pihero : Whether or not that person is authorised is irrelevant. That seat can now be traced...to its position in the cabin. It did not need to be advertised.
171 Vfw614 : Not the airline's seat number was reported, but the producer's serial number of the seat. That's something totally different (a unique 12 digit or so
172 Borism : Pihero, but the seat was empty, without a body! Besides, can you really trace passenger in the cabin by seat part number? Whether release was authoriz
173 Vfw614 : Just to avoid confusion (cannot edit my above post) - this.... ...should read: "a handful of people within Air France will be able to identify the ser
174 Bramble : Whether or not the body was strapped to a seat, there can be no way the boarding card was in hand. Less dramatic media states 2 male bodies recovered
175 Ellehammer09 : Maybe, while awaiting trustworthy information, one or more of the people in here with the needed knowledge and experience, would spend a little time t
176 Summa767 : The emphasis on the seat serial number is clearly to do with providing a "proof" that it does belong to the doomed airplane, after the setback on the
177 SXDFC : I do have a question with regards to the seat they found, was it from Affaires (Business) or Tempo (Economy)?
178 Versabob : Regarding file data recorder search and possible search and recovery, I listened to remarks by the French Transport Minister. The net of his message w
179 Ellehammer09 : Ok, as far as I'm informed the black box emits a signal detectable to depths of 3-4 km of water. Although the size of kitchenpot, it would surprice me
180 ChrisK2 : Hi again everybody, Thanks a lot for the summary. In case some of you tried to get ahold of some more info about those planes, C-105 was a tougher one
181 Starlionblue : In theory sure. I'm guessing from the serial you can know where it was mounted. Then you cross reference with the passenger seating chart... Not that
182 WingedMigrator : The French government fully intends to retrieve the black boxes. There was never any doubt about that. Deep water salvage equipment is on the way, to
183 Dvautier : Can somebody explain how the A330 autopilot behaves when the plane enters turbulence. Do the pilots have a button that says “good weather”, “bad
184 Gigneil : The actual distance is 1km. NS
185 Carls : Looks quite evident he is talking about MEDIA, not about you. While I agree with you on this, I have to say that this kind of thing is better to keep
186 ChrisK2 : Hello, Beyond the other points made about the whole "body found" story ... Please don't forget about statistical significance of the condition of one
187 SXDFC : "Carls" see below: Which Is Why I asked....[Edited 2009-06-06 20:20:04]
188 Mir : It behaves quite normally. Some other aircraft have a button that de-sensitizes the autopilot so that it won't respond as abruptly to the bumps (i.e.
189 Post contains links Sniffmom : If you're right, how are we to understand the below quote? "Mary Schiavo, a former inspector general for the Department of Transportation, said Satur
190 Post contains links BOACVC10 : Would it be possible for any a.net member that has access to sea surface meteorological data to create an animation / graphic presentation of the curr
191 Jbernie : Should they be able to recover the bodies of passengers known to be sitting in different sections of the aircraft (mainly front vs back) there could
192 Post contains links MarSciGuy : I can try, tomorrow night, to discover if there is an auto-updating website using the PIRATA buoy array in thr Atlantic though I can't give any guarr
193 Boacvc10 : Thank you for your help. I can assist in the animation of a few slides and posting to a flash enabled video website (perhaps, a.net assigned area in
194 Ikramerica : No, I don't think that's it. I think it's more lowering expectations before the fact. What I found strange and a bit lame was when Paul-Louis Arslani
195 Starlionblue : If you're referring to the speed displayed on AirShow (or equivalent) in the cabin, that's the ground speed. It has no little significance in these m
196 Avek00 : That's not speculation, that's the honest-to-God truth. Neither AF nor Airbus stand to gain from any accident conclusion that indicates a problem wit
197 AirlineCritic : I asked: And now it seems that there's an answer from Air France: That is, pitot probe icing can be a problem in commonly occurring weather conditions
198 NAV20 : Sorry again, CO10T3 - when I said 'capacity' I meant military-style capacity - the sheer numbers of ships, aircraft, submarines etc. that would be (a
199 BMI727 : Would the pitot tube icing possibly cause the cascade of failures of the various electrical, computer, and autopilot systems?
200 Starlionblue : Do you really think the NTSB, while not investigating, will not cry foul? After all the 330 is widely used by US carriers.
201 Hardiwv : See reply 73 for information in this regard. Rgs,[Edited 2009-06-06 23:07:46]
202 Hardiwv : Could you please explain because I did not follow the Concorde investigation. Perhaps with the involvement of the Brazilians the French investigation
203 C010T3 : I'm glad we're on the same page here.
204 Mandala499 : Firstly, I don't know if they found someone strapped to the seats or not, but for the purpose of answering such a question IF this was the case then:
205 Post contains links Hardiwv : This is correct it is called CASA-295 in other places because it is built by EADS-CASA Seville, Spain. The EADS CASA C-295 (or C-105 Amazonas in Braz
206 Post contains links Klwright69 : Regarding the bodies of the victims, the MayDay Investigation Series episode on the BOAC accident with the Dehaviland Comet is particularly interestin
207 Post contains links Hardiwv : The R-99 (or P-99 for maratime use) - or iEMB 145 MULTI INTEL from factory - is produced by Brazil's Embraer. It has been the "star" of the operation
208 Klwright69 : Also I read that it took them 2 weeks to recover AI182's black boxes, they were at 2,000 meters. Investigators got all the information they sought and
209 Mir : Very possibly. Remember that this isn't something that happens all the time, so it's important to diagnose the problem and really understand what the
210 Post contains links NAV20 : This Reuters) story sheds a bit more light on the pitot tube issue. Apparently Air France decided to change the pitot tubes on its own initiative; Air
211 Hardiwv : This is really serious and a major breakthrough in the investigation. This piece of information is vital. But why has AF only informed this now, 1 we
212 ChrisK2 : Hello, I was stressing that the people in this forum, when speculating about the condition of the plane based on things like "what if the poor guy was
213 Zkpilot : That would depend on what equipment you are using to detect the signal... a lot of military equipment could hear a signal like that from hundreds of
214 SlowFly : Can I drop a thought into the speculation (or should we call it "analysis") pool? It was triggered by Sorry Pihero, no intention to rub in a statement
215 ChrisK2 : Hi, The point is not so much the problem of recovery (which *will* be a challenge in deep waters). The problem is finding them in the first place, one
216 FlySSC : Maybe because Air France main concern is to know really what happened, and not to say "this is not my fault" ?[Edited 2009-06-07 00:32:06]
217 Boeing747_600 : To describe the sort of maintenance called for in the Airbus directive as "knee-jerk" may very well have been the mindset behind the decision that ma
218 ChrisK2 : Hello, It's an interesting thought, if only because (after all these messages!) I haven't read it before. Sounds plausible, considering the plane bein
219 Hardiwv : More information regarding the operation by Brazil Air Force: Parts of AF447 wings and more seats have been found by the R-99 and collected from the o
220 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : German magazine stern.de now reports that wing pieces and seats have been found: http://www.stern.de/panorama/:Air-Fr...hteams-Airbus-Fl%FCgel/702917.
221 Rabenschlag : It is very weird that some people generally seem to think that France and french companies are corrupt. Do you think that, for example, US authoritie
222 ChrisK2 : Thanks for keeping us updated, Hardiwv ! Quite a number of little needles in a huge haystack! ChrisK2
223 Mandala499 : It's a conspiracy!!! In the light of this accident, I can now conclude that there IS a conspiracy within Air France! It took 12 months in the plannin
224 ChrisK2 : Hi, Well. Let's just assume that every company of a significant size has a certain "lobby" influence on politics and institutions. We shouldn't wonder
225 Type-Rated : I think the perception is not so much that the French companies may be corrupt, but the French do have their own way of doing things. It's not that i
226 Pihero : My mistakes are mine and I'm not afraid of owning them, so it's OK No, waves travel very much like the ones for your cell phone.You can have a conver
227 Gigneil : Satcom antennae on aircraft may be solid state phased arrays, but they still have to be facing skywards and within line of sight of the device in que
228 Mir : My description of "knee-jerk maintenance" refers to the idea that because you've noticed a problem that might be pitot tube related with one of the a
229 Post contains links NAV20 : The plot thickens...... Here's the head investigator saying the direct opposite of what Air France said:- "The agency investigating the crash of Flig
230 Babybus : Hope this isn't a diversion from our discussion but I wouldn't like to be a passenger flying a twin jet from Brazil to Europe now, especially if the w
231 Post contains links N14AZ : Here is another example on how the press is working. Three openers of three different German on-line newspapers at 10 am: 1.) Die Welt Translation: Ai
232 76er : Would you care to elaborate on that? A twin usually has a lot more excess performance than a trijet of quad. I'll take the twin anytime. And what's t
233 AirNZ : Sorry, I don't see anything particularly "...doubly odd..." about it. At this point the cause of the tragedy is completely unknown so equally it woul
234 Ikramerica : After seeing how AF and the French government behaved during Concorde investigation, looking for any way possible to lay blame outside of the country
235 PhB95 : First right, then wrong. It must have an antenna, whatever it is, but there are omnidirectionnal antennas, which are for sure used here. I know zilch
236 Ikramerica : Especially because the weather wasn't severe as first thought, and if the crash is due to a defect, it's not in any way related to being a "twin" or
237 SlowFly : I think we are talking about satcom via Inmarsat, operating at L-band (about 1.5 GHz). The antenna is directional. It is solid state, but the beam ge
238 David L : That information will be crucial to the investigators... but that doesn't mean every gruesome detail about the victims should be paraded around in pu
239 PhB95 : This is what you see on mobile inmarsat gear (so-called inmarsat suitcase), but the antenna is in fact an array which the system "tunes" itself from
240 TristarSteve : before 1982 we had an Air Data Computor in a big box, and an IRS which was a 30kg box of gyros. Then the Ring Laser Gyro came along, and the digital
241 Post contains links Jetterrosie : It's worrying to see the comments the public are making on online press articles... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...us_and_americas/article6446
242 Ellehammer09 : Thx for your support, thought I had to raise the subject to avoid some people from indulging in visualizations not needed.. The particular quoting wa
243 NAV20 : Oh dear, DavidL....... Oddly enough, though, I tend to agree with Airbus rather than Air France. I think that it's unlikely that the pitot tubes are
244 Hardiwv : Please, this is now going too far. Do you know the number of twin jets flying everyday between Europe and Brazil? In my calculation there are over 20
245 David L : What I see is that Airbus initially didn't think different sensors would help. Then they proposed testing different ones. Then AF decided to start ch
246 LHRspotter : Other known accidents (Aeroperu, Birgenair etc) caused by pitot tube problems happened at night, over water. It could well be a coincidence but flyin
247 AirNZ : Yes, but however, there were very established factors from 'outside the country' which were very highly involved and which many seem to both convenie
248 Thomson735 : I agree with your, but its interesting as we all know this as we are intrested in aviation and understand its a very very safe form of transport but
249 FCA767 : I've been thinking about this...If Airbus (Who I used to love and actually chose Air France to go on the A340, A318 and A320 1 month ago) if they have
250 Ellehammer09 : If we jumped to the conclusions, that the plane in some way were at its coffin corner due to instrumental defects, and secondly flew into a storm, whi
251 Iakobos : Attitude has to do with communications, there is no antenna that radiates and captures in all directions and at all angles (except in theory and it i
252 Bramble : The poster (Babybus) is referring to the mood of pax. I wonder how many pax have rebooked OFF the GIG-CDG route over the last week. In DUB yesterday
253 Zeke : The codes are supposed to be used in conjunction with the maintenance manuals, for example the item 27-93-34 reported by EFCS1 has different meaning
254 Post contains links Loalq : "O Globo" just brought up the case of the Varig 707 cargo plane that went missing after leaving Japan in 1979, but in this case no trace of the plane
255 BackSeater : Am I correct in assuming that the list of ACARS messages appearing in several of the posts is only a list of summaries or message headers, enabling a
256 Trystero : Europe stuff and Off-topic, but tottaly right. Sometimes this forum can useful outside it's limits.. This accident brings the problem of the radar co
257 PhB95 : Thanks a lot for your detailed post, and for these details in particular, which made me learn something more.
258 Post contains links 2175301 : It is reported that the US Navy is sending some portable towed listening gear to help find the black boxes that can be used by tugs or other ships, at
259 ZANL188 : Yeah, the size of the unit is only important if you are trying to find it in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, under tons of wreckage, with an ROV, d
260 Iakobos : AERO-L is character only and at slow speed, thereby ACARS sends only abbreviated "text" without any details. Reliability of the system (downlink, a/c
261 Hardiwv : It does happen and the situation is similar to the Southern Atlantic ocean. The best to cover the area is via CINDACTA III in REC and the DKR station
262 Post contains links NAV20 : Full marks, Zeke - except that I think it was the A320, not the A330? About six years ago. "The Direction Générale de l’Aviation Civile of France
263 Post contains links Borism : AFAIK those are full decoded ACARS transmissions. ACARS is very short message only stating what's broken and data link is very slow, because over lan
264 BackSeater : Thank you for that info. I certainly was not expecting a lot of detailed data given the very low speed of the transmit channel and the fact that the
265 OA260 : Well it goes without saying that those thoughts will of course be in peoples minds. However the one in a billion chances there might be of it happeni
266 Ciaran : Regarding file data recorder search and possible search and recovery, I listened to remarks by the French Transport Minister. The net of his message
267 Post contains links Borism : Wouldn't passive ADS-B Mode-S reception do the job? Few enthusiast receivers in Sweden and Finland cover pretty much whole Northern Europe: http://ww
268 COEWR787 : There is no radar coverage in the North Atlantic Oceanic area either. Traveling on UA flights while listening in on ATC on Channel 9 it is very obvio
269 AirNZ : Hmmm! I don't think the poster was referring to city pairs such as you quote, and am quite perplexed as to where you got that from. I took him to be
270 NAV20 : Just about the ONLY thing that we can be sure of about this accident is that the aeroplane didn't have engine trouble. In fact, had the aeroplane bee
271 Hardiwv : Thanks for the information. I thought so. Rgs,
272 Comorin : Thank you Mir, Hardiiw, Zeke, PiHero and DavidL for your tireless efforts in keeping this thread in the realm of the rational. Let's see: we now have
273 Post contains links Moderators : Please continue the discussion here: AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 13 Per forum policy, any posts that appear after this message will be deleted. If
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