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South African And World Cup  
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Just watching the U.S. world cup qualifying game against honduras and thoughy about SA. We are about a year from the World cup. How is the World Cup influencing their business plan as well as other airlines? Are other airlines such as VS and other european companies increasing the amount of flights to JNB and other airports. I expect this to be huge in terms of growth for SA because countries like Japan (I think) and Australia already qualified for the World cup.

Just as an afterthough this post is not related to http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3352420/


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3910 times:
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Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
Just watching the U.S. world cup qualifying game against honduras and thoughy about SA. We are about a year from the World cup. How is the World Cup influencing their business plan as well as other airlines? Are other airlines such as VS and other european companies increasing the amount of flights to JNB and other airports. I expect this to be huge in terms of growth for SA because countries like Japan (I think) and Australia already qualified for the World cup

Because of the world cup, TAM is about to begin a flight to JNB. Also, charters for sure will be organized connecting other places in Brazil.
Furthermore, South African has plans to begin services to Rio de Janeiro GIG
I believe we shall see more charters than anything else.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3902 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
Just watching the U.S. world cup qualifying game against honduras and thoughy about SA. We are about a year from the World cup. How is the World Cup influencing their business plan as well as other airlines? Are other airlines such as VS and other european companies increasing the amount of flights to JNB and other airports. I expect this to be huge in terms of growth for SA because countries like Japan (I think) and Australia already qualified for the World cup.

I have traveled a couple of times on DL down to JNB, and look forward to it becoming a non-stop, but I don't forsee them adding any service during this time. At best I see them just commanding higher yeilds on the flights.

On a side note, I cannot help but wonder if the SA construction crews will ever get the stadiums completed in Durban, etc. I hear that they keep tying to strike...


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

Regarding international airlines, I think what we are gonna see the most are charters... For the ones already operating there, I see space for equipment or frequency upgrade during April-10, May-10, June-10.... Regardig domestic market, this one will surely see a huge increase in demand during these months..

On Brazils side, as LipeGIG said, JJ will start JNB service. This was confirmed to me from a close friend who works and Bain & Co. and is consulting for JJ. He didn't have info about equipment. Today, IIRC, JJ still has 4 A332s on order, as well as 4 77Ws.. I don't know when these birds are expected, but I'd bet on the 77W if available by the time.

[Edited 2009-06-07 18:07:51]


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User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2382 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3702 times:

Wasn't Emirates the official airline of this world cup too?


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3646 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Furthermore, South African has plans to begin services to Rio de Janeiro GIG

Not to my knowledge. They started EZE at the beginning of April 2009.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 4):
Wasn't Emirates the official airline of this world cup too?

 checkmark 


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3547 times:



Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 2):
On a side note, I cannot help but wonder if the SA construction crews will ever get the stadiums completed in Durban, etc. I hear that they keep tying to strike...

It will get done. Remember the same questions were asked of the Greeks for the Olympics recently? I have no doubt it will get done.


User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3485 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 6):
It will get done. Remember the same questions were asked of the Greeks for the Olympics recently? I have no doubt it will get done.

I was just in South Africa for 2 weeks, and I didn't see a crane move once on the stadium in Cape Town. I hope they pull it off. I adored the country and want everyone that travels there for the World Cup to have a blast.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineNYC2TLV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Well don't forget that Emirates is starting flights to Durban. I expect El Al to substitute a 777 on the route for the 767 and perhaps increase the number of flights.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3410 times:
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Quoting SA7700 (Reply 5):
Not to my knowledge. They started EZE at the beginning of April 2009

It has been said two or three times and re-affirmed by South African director for Brazil.

http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...copa-de-2010_38587.html?pesquisa=1

http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...frica-do-sul_40260.html?pesquisa=1



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3377 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
It has been said two or three times and re-affirmed by South African director for Brazil

Thanks for the links LipeGIG.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3319 times:
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Quoting SA7700 (Reply 10):
Thanks for the links LipeGIG.

You're welcome.
And for your info and for JNB spotters. Three A332 operations from REC to JNB and from JNB to GIG

CBF (Brazilian Confederation of Soccer) charter flights for the Confederations Cup:

June 11
JJ9354 REC 0200 (0500 UTC) JNB 1100 (1400 UTC)

June 22
JJ9443 JNB 0900 (1200 UTC) GIG 1910 (2210 UTC)

June 29
JJ9443 JNB 0900 (1200 UTC) GIG 1910 (2210 UTC)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3272 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):

Will be JJ's Felipe?

I wonder how much does CBF pays for such flights.... Must be a furtune..



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3233 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
TAM is about to begin a flight to JNB



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
JJ will start JNB service. This was confirmed to me from a close friend who works and Bain & Co. and is consulting for JJ.

I think TAM will use the A345 for JNB-GRU. This is an important market and for your info SA's JNB-GRU is one of the airlines most profitable flights.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
He didn't have info about equipment

I think A345.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 5):
Not to my knowledge. They started EZE at the beginning of April 2009.

EZE will be increased again in May by an additonal frequency, it will have 4 weekly flights.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3173 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
I think A345.

I'd say will get rid of it's two A345s when they manage to get more 77Ws and 332s.... Wouldn't it be money saving due to fleet padronization? My impression was that they just got this birds becouse they couldn't get any more 332s or 777s in time..



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3126 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 12):

Yes, it will be JJ equipment, and may be with special livery.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 14):

I'd say will get rid of it's two A345s when they manage to get more 77Ws and 332s.... Wouldn't it be money saving due to fleet padronization? My impression was that they just got this birds becouse they couldn't get any more 332s or 777s in time..

Not in fact. JJ does not have equipment to replace the A345 on MXP route, but they might come with an increase from 7 to 10x weekly A332 to release the A345 during the world cup. I expect TAM to run around 20 charters for the World Cup but the route will begin with A332 4x weekly.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

What is the change of EK launching AMS-DXB now Holland has quallified and EK being the official carrier?


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3058 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Not in fact. JJ does not have equipment to replace the A345 on MXP route, but they might come with an increase from 7 to 10x weekly A332 to release the A345 during the world cup. I expect TAM to run around 20 charters for the World Cup but the route will begin with A332 4x weekly.

Is that 20 charters from Brazil or 20 charters from other South American countries?

I'm really wondering whether or not SA will take advantage of advertising the world cup on their planes. Preferably, a world cup logo a346, that would be really nice



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7390 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3040 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
Are other airlines such as VS and other european companies increasing the amount of flights to JNB and other airports.

This does not usually happen.

For example the 2008 European Champions League Final was in Moscow. As it happened the two finalists were both English. So the demand for flights between the UK and Moscow went through the roof.

Many fans travelled indirectly through some other major European city. But in one TV interview in Moscow a British father and daughter said they had reached Moscow by flying on scheduled airlines from London to Beijing and then from Beijing to Moscow. So assuming they returned the same way - the interviewer did not ask how they were going to get home - what should have been a 3,000 mile round trip was actually more than a 17,000 mile round trip.

Of course for the FIFA World Cup in South Africa the finalists will be known much further in advance than was the case for the European Champions League. This might allow for some flexibility. But I very much doubt that there will be many (if any) extra flights. The first hurdle (assuming an airline has the spare capacity available) is to get approval from the authorities for flights not covered by the existing bilaterals, and this is not always easy. And it not only requires the approval of the authorities at both ends but also of those whose territories are over flown.

I think this is one of the reasons why so many new routes to South Africa are due to start before the World Cup Finals.


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3040 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Not in fact. JJ does not have equipment to replace the A345 on MXP route, but they might come with an increase from 7 to 10x weekly A332 to release the A345 during the world cup. I expect TAM to run around 20 charters for the World Cup but the route will begin with A332 4x weekly.

But what I am considering is a fleet padronization, in mid-term, when they manage to get more widebodies, and are not short of them for expansion plans.... In, let's say, two year time, when they will have at least 20 A332s and 8 77Ws, won't be a problem to have just a couple of 345s? Wouldn't be smarter to get a two extra 77Ws, padronizing the fleet?

For short term (World Cup), I agree that the 345s will still be around... But anyway, why not using the 332s for JNB 10x to 12x weekly, offering more time options, istead of movingo MXP equipment?



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User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2979 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
June 22 JJ9443 JNB 0900 (1200 UTC) GIG 1910 (2210 UTC)

I guess I will have to sneak over from my hotel room at the Intercontinental to see if a can catch a view...  Smile


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineFlymad From South Africa, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2929 times:



Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 2):
On a side note, I cannot help but wonder if the SA construction crews will ever get the stadiums completed in Durban, etc. I hear that they keep tying to strike...

According to a a press article this past weekend ( which I cannot trace right now), ALL the stadiums will be complete by the end of the 2009. IIRC at least 50% have alreday been completed and are already in use!


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2921 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
What is the change of EK launching AMS-DXB now Holland has quallified and EK being the official carrier?

The fact that EK does not fly DXB-AMS is a big mysteri. In the meanwhile KL flies AMS-DXB 10 x week B777.

Btw, Holland is now in no. 2 in FIFA ranking, behind Spain.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 17):
Is that 20 charters from Brazil or 20 charters from other South American countries?

As Lipe mentioned, it will be at least 20 charters from Brazil (and I say at least). We dont know the other countries in the region which will qualified, but at the moment the standing is.

Brazil
Paraguai
Chile
Argentina
Uruguay

You can expect that by and large traffic from Paraguai, Chile, Uruguay will be routed via GRU to JNB. These countries will also feed charter traffic in Brazil.

Argentina already has EZE-JNB by SA and EZE-CPT-JNB by MH.

Quoting Flymad (Reply 21):
According to a a press article this past weekend ( which I cannot trace right now), ALL the stadiums will be complete by the end of the 2009. IIRC at least 50% have alreday been completed and are already in use!

You are correct. I have a friend who works for FIFA in ZRH and he just came back from South Africa's inspection and he told me they expect the South Africans to complete the work on the stadium by beginning of 2010.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 19):
For short term (World Cup), I agree that the 345s will still be around... But anyway, why not using the 332s for JNB 10x to 12x weekly, offering more time options, istead of movingo MXP equipment?

This is another option, but I think the 345 could be better fit for JNB. TAM will also realise how strong the JNB market is (because of JNB hub of Star partner SA, etc), this leads me to think that GRU-JNB will be one of TAM strongest routes. GRU-JNB is one of SA top routes at the moment.

The ideal would be for both SA and TAM to coordinate their schedule, allowing for different schedule. Currently SA morning departure in JNB does not allow for many intra-African connections.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2771 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
This is another option, but I think the 345 could be better fit for JNB. TAM will also realise how strong the JNB market is (because of JNB hub of Star partner SA, etc), this leads me to think that GRU-JNB will be one of TAM strongest routes. GRU-JNB is one of SA top routes at the moment.

The ideal would be for both SA and TAM to coordinate their schedule, allowing for different schedule. Currently SA morning departure in JNB does not allow for many intra-African connections.

I'm also with big expectations regarding JJ's GRU-JNB serive... Actually, I think they could offer it GIG-GRU-JNB, or put it on schedule that offers immediate GIG connection.



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User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

A problem for the major European carriers, is that (apart from the Netherlands) nobody else has qualified for the tournament yet, so it would be dangerous to expand the fleet too soon...

Further, teams don't know where in South Africa they will be playing yet, so that until the draws are made, fans won't know where they'll want to base themselves initially, and direct flights to the Cape Towns and Durbans etc would be more atttractive than funneling everyone through JoBurg and relying on onwards transport.

Planning for the Olympics is much easier, as there is only one host city, and people tend to go there for the general sporting atmosphere and events, rather than to support a particular team, thus numbers from each country are more predictable.



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
25 FuturePilot16 : I don't think you have to worry about teams such as France, Italy, England, Holland, Spain, ETC. I'm sure they will all make it. Well, I would expect
26 LipeGIG : As mentioned by Hardi, i believe we shall see: 25,000 Brazilians (5,000 flying thru Europe or Dubai, 5,000 with South African regular flights, 15,000
27 Hardiwv : There is no question here, this is obvious decision. Lets hope that by 2010 SA already starts GIG-JNB. If there is no nonstop GIG-JNB I expect a huge
28 LipeGIG : I believe they will try at least during the world cup to run a 3x weekly flight. The question is if South African Airways will have capacity to deal
29 JJ8080 : Maybe to China or Japan in a near future.... We also may see PumaAir on this cenario... They will be starting GRU-LAD (4x weekly) and GRU-REC-LAD (3x
30 LipeGIG : I think they again (considering G3 wet-lease) lose the timing. The bilateral was changed by the request of TAAG because of Puma Air approval to fly t
31 Hardiwv : I will only believe when I see it. And then people ask why do airlines fail. Rgs,
32 JJ8080 : So you guys don't think there is space for them both? In this ceneario, we would have: GIG-LAD TAAG 4x wekkly GRU-LAD TAAG 3x weekly + Puma 4x weekly
33 LipeGIG : If they are smart, they would fly SSA-REC-LAD 2x weekly and REC-SSA-LAD 1x weekly. Airlines need to learn that demand come from all around Brazil, no
34 JJ8080 : That's the point. Also why RG didn't do well on the last internantional expansion... Doesn't meter if an airline is flying the most profitable and de
35 LipeGIG : True, put on your calcullation: comfort, entertainment, fare, connections, marketing, period of time to begin services and schedule. If you fail on m
36 JJ8080 : Having all this said, maybe the right thing for PumaAir to do is just to dedicate themselves to international charters, were the equipment and service
37 LipeGIG : And where such chances are ? In my view they are very limited and would demand a lot of energy. We may think about CNF-EWR/JFK, Northeast-MIA for the
38 JJ8080 : Their product limits them a lot, but I see an opportunity for Northeast-MIA and Northeast-Europe flights... I would add CNF and BSB as origins also..
39 LipeGIG : If they're smart, they could prepare crews for use on World Cup charters.
40 JJ8080 : They could even start negotiations with travel agencies for such charters... We are "almost" there...
41 Swallow : The first stadium, in Port Elizabeth, has been completed and handed over. South Africans know how to put on a show. They successfully hosted the rece
42 LipeGIG : Good to know they have a good previous record of events. I'm sure they will show to the world a very nice event.
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