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TAM To Temporarily Reduce GRU-JFK Operations  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6505 times:
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Due to a reduction on advance bookings, as well as because of the introduction of the GIG-JFK service, JJ has noticed that the day light flight to New York is not perfoming so well as during 2008.
Some flights has been cancelled during the past weeks without big announcements, but now the airline decided to reduce it's capacity on the route during off-season period:

From Aug 08 to Sep 1

JJ 8082/8083 operates 5x weekly (except Tu/Th)

From Sep 15 to Oct 1

JJ 8082/8083 operates 4x weekly (except Tu/We/Th)
* Here i believe TAM will operate one or two of the flights on the week of the general assembly of UN.

From Oct 13 to Oct 22

JJ 8082/8083 operates 4x weekly (except Tu/We/Th)

From Nov 3 to Dec 3

JJ 8082/8083 operates 4x weekly (except Tu/We/Th)

Eff Dec 4 UFN (until further notice)

JJ8082/8083 operates Daily

* Sep 7 week - Holiday (Independence Day in Brazil) and Brazilian Day in NYC - Very high demand
* Oct 12 week - Saint Aparecida Day (Patron of Brazil) - Also very high demand.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

I think that the reduction in service can be attributed to recession in both countries. Also TAM faces strong competition from three large American carriers, AA, CO, and DL in the metro New York market. Let's wait and see if JJ operates a reduced schedule next year during low season.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6270 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 1):
think that the reduction in service can be attributed to recession in both countries. Also TAM faces strong competition from three large American carriers, AA, CO, and DL in the metro New York market. Let's wait and see if JJ operates a reduced schedule next year during low season

Agreed and they are not the only one. AA is updating their schedule and the second DFW flight will be reduced to 3x from 5x weekly. Some AA flights to MIA have been cancelled till last week also and they decided not to add frequencies to GRU-MIA during July peak season.
So far the only addition is GIG-MIA (from 7 to 11 as last year) and GRU-DFW (now 10x against 12x last year).
DL is not flying LAX yet as well as reduced JFK flights to 4x weekly, and will not run daylight flights to ATL (last year 2x/4x weekly)
UA will not begin GIG-IAD until IATA winter begins (last year Sep 03)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6241 times:

This surprises me a bit.

I'm very frequent flyer on JJ's services to JFK and It's always hard and expensive to get premium tickets unless with one or two month in advance. Is true that 80% of the times I'm on JJ8080 red-eye, but the times I'm on the daylight service, this impresion doesn't change at all. I also use AA frenquently for this route and their flights ara equally with good ocupation.

I imagine, considering this frenquency drop, that they must not be doing so well on Y, since, as I said, C and F are always with high loads and yields...

Is it confirmed Felipe? If you can say, which is the source?



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6207 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
I'm very frequent flyer on JJ's services to JFK and It's always hard and expensive to get premium tickets unless with one or two month in advance. Is true that 80% of the times I'm on JJ8080 red-eye, but the times I'm on the daylight service, this impresion doesn't change at all. I also use AA frenquently for this route and their flights ara equally with good ocupation.

This was true for last year. For this year, i manage to buy and i can buy any time a round trip on Business Class for around US$ 2,400.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
I imagine, considering this frenquency drop, that they must not be doing so well on Y, since, as I said, C and F are always with high loads and yields

I come back last month on JJ8082 departing from GIG, and i was alone on First Class. Business was around 50% and you have to imagine that some passengers are non-rev, frequent flyer, employees of airline.... yields are not so high, and be in mind, TAM needs to block 6-8 seats on Business Class for crew use. The daylight is facing less demand since TAM begin GIG-JFK and this is a fact.
It's not only TAM, DL is not able to run it's daily service and even AA and JAL need to reduce fares to fill it's flights to New York.
If there's a city pair between Brazil and US that suffer more, for sure is JFK-GRU.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
Is it confirmed Felipe? If you can say, which is the source?

It's confirmed. The source is TAM.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6187 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
This was true for last year. For this year, i manage to buy and i can buy any time a round trip on Business Class for around US$ 2,400.

Very good price... Does you have any special condition?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
I come back last month on JJ8082 departing from GIG, and i was alone on First Class. Business was around 50% and you have to imagine that some passengers are non-rev, frequent flyer, employees of airline.... yields are not so high, and be in mind, TAM needs to block 6-8 seats on Business Class for crew use. The daylight is facing less demand since TAM begin GIG-JFK and this is a fact.

It's curious... In January I flew JJ, both red-eyes on F and it was full both on GRU-JFK and JFK-GRU... Business must have had 70%, and didn't look at coach. On March, flew AA, on business, there was 3 or 4 available seats only, F had 10 pax and coach looked pretty loaded..
The third one this year was last month, for ITAU Conference. Flew GRU-JFK on JJ's F again, and it had all seats occupaid again, business class was equally full and didn't look at coach. For the return, i was o JJ, but on business, that was OVERBOOKED...

But anyway, numbers don't lie, JJ has them all and they know what they are doing...



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6032 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
Very good price... Does you have any special condition?

No , i just purchase my tickets with 50/60 days in advance or i pay almost full economy with 90 days and use FF privileges and miles to upgrade.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
It's curious... In January I flew JJ, both red-eyes on F and it was full both on GRU-JFK and JFK-GRU... Business must have had 70%, and didn't look at coach

January is a high season month.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
On March, flew AA, on business, there was 3 or 4 available seats only, F had 10 pax and coach looked pretty loaded..

March begins strong (because of Carnaval) but last weeks of March were very bad for airlines in Brazil-US market

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
The third one this year was last month, for ITAU Conference. Flew GRU-JFK on JJ's F again, and it had all seats occupaid again, business class was equally full and didn't look at coach. For the return, i was o JJ, but on business, that was OVERBOOKED

May be because of the conference and many people purchase the same itinerary from Brazil. It's the same on holidays, Brazilian Day.... but during the week days, believe me, numbers are very soft.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7564 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

Back in July of 2008, I was scheduled to fly the red-eye GRU-JFK (Monday night I believe), but due to heavy overbooking and some interlining fiasco involving AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ, AM and UA that prevented me from getting my boarding pass at VIX (where my trip originated), I got bumped off the flight, so I ended up flying the next day (daylight flight) and the load was very, very light, probably around 50%. I don't know if AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ constantly experiences a situation where the night flight is full and the daytime flight has a poor load.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5988 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
Back in July of 2008, I was scheduled to fly the red-eye GRU-JFK (Monday night I believe), but due to heavy overbooking and some interlining fiasco involving AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ, AM and UA that prevented me from getting my boarding pass at VIX (where my trip originated), I got bumped off the flight, so I ended up flying the next day (daylight flight) and the load was very, very light, probably around 50%. I don't know if AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ constantly experiences a situation where the night flight is full and the daytime flight has a poor load.

Hi Eddie. During 2008 flights were very, very busy. I never paid so much to fly like past year and i experienced even in October situations i never expect. On a Thursday night returning from GIG to JFK i had to purchase a full fare C GIG-MIA on TAM for the last seat (!) and had to connect at MIA because with a full fare F AA ticket because there was no Seats on flights to JFK that night.
Of course was different because i had to wait for my passport from the consulate and they only delivery it to me by 2 PM but i never experience that.
But as you mentioned JJ use to do that, overbook sometimes the overnight and offer many upgrades for the daylight flight



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5954 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
No , i just purchase my tickets with 50/60 days in advance or i pay almost full economy with 90 days and use FF privileges and miles to upgrade.

With full-fare Y + FF miles upgrade i have been getting quite good deals on AA. I'll be flying GRU-MIA-GRU on July and will be paying USD 1.900 + 30.000 miles for a C ticket... To JFK, I usually pay 2.100-2.200 + 30.000 miles.... For a paid C-ticket, on AA, I've been paying USD 3.000-3.500, depeding on the day.... On JJ, it's been a while since my last good deal...

Have info about DL's prices? What about JAL? Heard they have interesting fares for GRU-JFK-GRU...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
bad for airlines in Brazil-US market

Do you have a clue about numbers for the first 4 ou 5 month of 2009 on Brazil-USA?



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5911 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 9):
Do you have a clue about numbers for the first 4 ou 5 month of 2009 on Brazil-USA?

Not official but traffic seems to be 20% lower than 2008 levels with 8% more offer than 2008.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5878 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Not official but traffic seems to be 20% lower than 2008 levels with 8% more offer than 2008.

So, making some superficial calculations, load factors must be 15-20% under last year's...Big retraction..



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5778 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 11):
So, making some superficial calculations, load factors must be 15-20% under last year's...Big retraction..

Yes, big retraction. To be more clear, that's what will happen during peak summer iata season compared to last year:

- GRU-DFW (AA) will see capacity reduction of 2 weekly flights (from 12 to 10x weekly)
- GRU-MIA (AA) will see no extra flights (just the 19x/21x weekly)
- GRU-ATL (DL) will not see daylight extra flights (last year IIRC 4x weekly)
- GRU-JFK (DL) will see just 6x weekly flights (last year was daily)
- GRU-JFK (JJ) will see some cuts on daylights (like Friday July 3rd)

of course, this will be compensated with SSA-REC-MIA, CNF-MIA, MAO-ATL, REC-ATL, FOR-ATL, GRU-LAX, GRU-MCO, GIG-MIA and JFK-MIA new operations.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32686 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5764 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
GRU-MIA (AA) will see no extra flights (just the 19x/21x weekly)

Those flights have always been winter-only.



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5672 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
From Aug 08 to Sep 1

JJ 8082/8083 operates 5x weekly (except Tu/Th)

From Sep 15 to Oct 1

JJ 8082/8083 operates 4x weekly (except Tu/We/Th)
* Here i believe TAM will operate one or two of the flights on the week of the general assembly of UN.

From Oct 13 to Oct 22

JJ 8082/8083 operates 4x weekly (except Tu/We/Th)

From Nov 3 to Dec 3

JJ 8082/8083 operates 4x weekly (except Tu/We/Th)

Eff Dec 4 UFN (until further notice)

JJ8082/8083 operates Daily




Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
AA is updating their schedule and the second DFW flight will be reduced to 3x from 5x weekly.

It must be said that this is temporary reduction only.

Besides, the above period involved holidays which in fact creates reduction of business traffic.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
Yes, big retraction. To be more clear, that's what will happen during peak summer iata season compared to last year:

- GRU-DFW (AA) will see capacity reduction of 2 weekly flights (from 12 to 10x weekly)
- GRU-MIA (AA) will see no extra flights (just the 19x/21x weekly)
- GRU-ATL (DL) will not see daylight extra flights (last year IIRC 4x weekly)
- GRU-JFK (DL) will see just 6x weekly flights (last year was daily)
- GRU-JFK (JJ) will see some cuts on daylights (like Friday July 3rd)

Indeed, there is some retraction but schedule continues quite vast and solid! The numbers are still very impressive, thanks for sharing!

NYC-GRU will continue to see TAM, AA, JAL, DL, CO, which is an excellent seat supply and variety of frequency!

TAM: 14 weekly JFK-GRU A332, temporary reduction to 12 or 11 weekly;
AA: daily JFK-GRU-GIG B777;
CO: daily EWR-GRU B767;
JAL: 3 weekly JFK-GRU B747;
DL: 4 weekly B767.

If we consider TAM temporary reduction (say 11 weekly) we still will see 32 weekly flights. This is more than we had in 2007 when TAM operated only a daily JFK-GRU and there was no DL in the route!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Those flights have always been winter-only.

Thanks.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5534 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
GRU-LAX

Is GRU-LAX finally going to take off?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
CNF-MIA

When is this going to happen?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
NYC-GRU will continue to see TAM, AA, JAL, DL, CO, which is an excellent seat supply and variety of frequency!

And I'd add that we still have giant Brazil-MIA service....



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5186 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 15):
Is GRU-LAX finally going to take off?

Yes, July 1 IIRC

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 15):
When is this going to happen?

It's on 4x weekly by AA B763

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Those flights have always been winter-only

Thanks for the correction. I got the impression that last year AA increased GRU-MIA with 2 additional flights during summer (making the daylight daily), and GIG-MIA with 4 weekly.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
NYC-GRU will continue to see TAM, AA, JAL, DL, CO, which is an excellent seat supply and variety of frequency!

No doubt, and the small reduction in my opinion in because of the new flights but even more because of the financial institutions situation (mergers, TARP, less activity, etc). As you know i work on this industry and see a lot of reduction in activity, with a lot of Brazilians that use to work here in NYC, losing their jobs and returning to Brazil. And i'm talking about people that use to travel 12x a year, mostly times on Business & First.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5150 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
Yes, July 1 IIRC

Really? I lost track of DL LAX-GRU because they posponed it so many times. Has DL confirmed LAX-GRU? But I assume it will be seasonal only (July only), correct?

Rgs,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32686 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5046 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Really? I lost track of DL LAX-GRU because they posponed it so many times. Has DL confirmed LAX-GRU? But I assume it will be seasonal only (July only), correct?

Six weeks. Ends August 16th, IIRC.



a.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4006 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5008 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Six weeks. Ends August 16th, IIRC.

It will get interesting if travel continues to soften and 2010 comes around with more new bilateral rights for the US airlines to bid on. Are we going to see SJU-MAO flown twice daily with Shuttle America's E-175?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4984 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Really? I lost track of DL LAX-GRU because they posponed it so many times. Has DL confirmed LAX-GRU? But I assume it will be seasonal only (July only), correct?

Rgs,



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Six weeks. Ends August 16th, IIRC.

Correct, and probably wont return before December.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 19):
It will get interesting if travel continues to soften and 2010 comes around with more new bilateral rights for the US airlines to bid on. Are we going to see SJU-MAO flown twice daily with Shuttle America's E-175?

AA continues to see opportunities in Brazil and i believe they will bid for JFK-GIG and something to BSB or CNF.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32686 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4950 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
AA continues to see opportunities in Brazil and i believe they will bid for JFK-GIG and something to BSB or CNF.

I expect AA will bid for 4w BSB and 3w FOR from MIA.



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4902 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
Correct, and probably wont return before December.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Six weeks. Ends August 16th, IIRC.

DL should leave LAX-GRU for KE, just leave KE in peace! It is great for Brazil to have KE landing in GRU as it keeps Brazil link to ICN. KE is the only SkyTrax 5* airline landing in Latin America therefore lets hope DL does not spoil KE operations.

Btw, KE made 1 year in GRU this month!!!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
AA continues to see opportunities in Brazil and i believe they will bid for JFK-GIG

AA missed the boat on JFK-GIG, it had the opportunity but has not shown interest. And TAM still flies its errant 4 weekly JFK-GIG...Probably AA will bring back JFK-GIG seasonal for 4 weeks during December/January a la DL LAX-GRU, and even this I am not sure. Any confirmation?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
I expect AA will bid for 4w BSB and 3w FOR from MIA.

Agree. Plus perhaps BEL.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4882 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
AA missed the boat on JFK-GIG, it had the opportunity but has not shown interest. And TAM still flies its errant 4 weekly JFK-GIG...Probably AA will bring back JFK-GIG seasonal for 4 weeks during December/January a la DL LAX-GRU, and even this I am not sure. Any confirmation?

Loads on JFK-GRU-GIG keep strong but giving the current economic situation, i don't know if AA will venture again on JFK-GIG. But i believe a 3x weekly between DEC19 and JAN31 will be very interesting. I'm waiting for July to check on DOT how the seasonal performed in January.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32686 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4878 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
AA missed the boat on JFK-GIG, it had the opportunity but has not shown interest.

AA did not miss the boat. AA wanted to offer year-round service, and it was not awarded to them even though JFK-GIG would likely have been far more beneficial than CLT-GIG.

Though maybe when US Airways exits the GIG market, then AA will go for JFK-GIG again.



a.
25 B752OS : Do you believe US will be successful with CLT-GIG? Not being aware of market sizes, how much larger is JFK-GIG then CLT-GIG? Large or small?
26 MAH4546 : CLT-GIG's annual O&D is about 1,000. JFK-GIG is 80,000+.
27 LipeGIG : JFK-GIG is "just" around 90,000 pax a year for an offer of just 78,720 non-stop seats CLT-GIG is 5,000 Of course, with connections, situation is diff
28 Hardiwv : Thanks I forgot AA actually applies for the frequencies but they were awarded to US and CO. Perhaps AA could try to complain to DOT about UA dormant
29 MAH4546 : No, it's not. CLT-GIG's O&D is 1.1 PDEW.
30 LipeGIG : But this does not restricts access to seasonal extra flights. In fact will be 14 for June 2010, for any point of Brazil except Sao Paulo. 1,462 is th
31 JJ8080 : So wouldn't PHI-GIG be a smarter choice?
32 LipeGIG : PHI is a larger market but at the same time, far from other markets like Florida. In this regard, CLT is better.
33 C010T3 : No, PHL is not as well geographically positioned as CLT and the GIG-PHL isn't that broad to justify bypassing CLT, not to mention the fact that CLT i
34 JJ8080 : But is closer to markets like NY, Chicago, Whashington and even Canada... Plus the higher O&D numbers...
35 C010T3 : What's the point? Connect to those delay prone RJ services out of PHL? Chicago is closer to CLT, but that's not even the issue here. CLT has a good S
36 LipeGIG : NY and Washington already have services to GIG. Chicago has non-stop to Sao Paulo. As explained by Coiote, the more south is the gateway, better.
37 JJ8080 : Ok so if we are talking about connecting to Florida, MIA is already served non-stop from GIG, not mention GRU. MCO also, from GRU. Surely, becouse of
38 C010T3 : Yes, it is, but low-yielding passengers will go where the fares a lower, so they will connect at CLT as well and the Floridian market is huge.
39 LipeGIG : Miami is served, but between the top 10 markets to GIG there's also Orlando and Tampa. Still, CLT it's closer and better to build a future network of
40 WorldTraveler : Every US carrier has shown decreased traffic to Latin America. There are NO markets for ANY carrier that continue to perform at levels comparable to w
41 C010T3 : Considering the fact that the US-Brazil bilateral will most probably stay unchanged for some years, I think that carriers will still go with full pow
42 JJ8080 : So, you are saying that any carrier starting SouthAmerica services should always chose a departing point as south as possible? IIRC, United, during i
43 LipeGIG : Yes, but it's early to say something. Lets wait for January numbers for both DL and AA.
44 C010T3 : No, I'm saying that the location plays an important role in the planning. The Southeast has the advantage, because it's closer to Brazil, just like L
45 LipeGIG : Correct, UA probably in on the worst position right now to deal with South America.
46 WorldTraveler : I have no doubt that the DL numbers will be weak... that is obvious by the cuts they have made. But the 70% LFs that some have said AA is generating
47 MAH4546 : The route launched in NOV08 with a sixty day window for bookings. Of course you would base them off the November LFs. AA has publicly said the LF's h
48 C010T3 : Yes, it came out wrong. MIA is far too peninsular for domestic-domestic connectivity. What I meant was that there was no international service that w
49 WorldTraveler : I never saw anything from AA saying this. Would you like to share a link to a story?
50 JJ8080 : Almost sure they were not. IIRC, UA dropped MIA-GRU after 9/11 crises... So here we go again. If neither ORD or IAD are good enought to put UA on a g
51 C010T3 : Do you honestly think that IAD and ORD have the same potential as JFK and MIA? I'm pretty sure LipeGIG meant the current players. US as a new entrant
52 EwRkId : Would there be chance JJ could move its ops to EWR in the near future to feed into CO's domestic connections? Maybe JJ could do EWR-GIG as CO doesn't
53 C010T3 : I really doubt it, since they have been serving JFK sucessfully for years, but CO has the chance to apply for EWR-GIG next year.
54 EwRkId : I'm sure CO well act upon that chance and apply for it, and I wonder how the loads and cargo are for the EWR-GRU on the 762 does anyone know?
55 JJ8080 : I don't understand your question. Waht I said was that US's hubs wouldn't put them on a good position regarding South America operations, considering
56 LipeGIG : Performs well on passengers. Cargo numbers are also good considering it's a 762. For DEC/08, the most recent data available EWR-GRU - 4127 pax - 171t
57 C010T3 : Well, yes, Florida is the 4th largest state in population. I said that UA doesn't have at ORD and IAD the same potential it had at JFK and MIA. That'
58 EwRkId : Thanks for info, had a feeling it was a fairly well performer.
59 JJ8080 : Although they will increase their costs in NY market a lot by oppening a new base on the city. Maybe the bottom line would be better if they just kee
60 LipeGIG : For them just make a difference. They offer limo service for their F/C customers, so the high yield will continue to count with service. If they want
61 C010T3 : Not substantially. Passengers from South Carolina, for example, that today drive to ATL, could decide to drive to CLT instead, reducing the amout of
62 JJ8080 : I can't see any advantage for JJ to move it's NY base to EWR neither to open a second base there. IMO, they should stay +- like you said: GRU-JFK dai
63 LipeGIG : The advantage is that, at EWR they have access to connections. With 65-75% loads, they could got additional loads.
64 JJ8080 : And they don't have access to connections at JFK?
65 LipeGIG : With interline agreements yes, but JJ won't sell them thru their website.
66 LipeGIG : That's my suggestion, considering market and possible connections: JJ8080 remains JFK JJ8082 and JJ8078 changes as follows (current time zone differen
67 JJ8080 : Sorry, I may be missing something, but why in EWR they would be able to seel them thru their website? CO, which has a hub at EWR is not *A member..
68 C010T3 : But it will be.
69 LipeGIG : I think you do not realize CO on *A as Coiote said. CO is the largest NYC operator thanks to it's massive hub operation at EWR.
70 JJ8080 : Was unaware of that. Are they gonna jump off SkyT?
71 EwRkId : Yup they announced it last year i believe they are transitioning into Star Alliance around Nov.
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