Usafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5332 times:
Thanks Greg. I flew TWA dozens of times in the mid l980s on Air Force "TDYs". The glory days of full gates on "C" and "D", L-10lls and other heavies down at 42 to 44 on the "C" are gone. "D" is all but empty save for Great Lakes Airlines (B-1900s) and I think one Frontier gate. "C" is half AA RJs and half AA mainlines, but pretty much ends at Gate 32. My wife's brother was a long time TWA A&P is now at AA's MCI facility hanging on. I always liked TWA even though I rarely got upgraded as a military peon back then (AF Captain). My last TWA flight was l993, L-1011, SFO-STL-SFO, my wife and I got first class upgrade on that flight.
Although I'm Exec Plat on AA, I sure miss the TWA fleet, even the 727s and 707s of days gone by. Service was always good- Ozark better, but that's another thread. STL is a shell of it's former self on the C and D concourse, mostly MD-80s and a few 757s. AA long hauls mostly require changes in DFW and ORD. We have about one, maybe two direct flights daily on mainlines to major cities such as ORD, DFW, LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, MIA, but fairly good service to LGA, DCA and a few other like cities. Smaller cities are on RJ's- ugh. I'd say we are a mini AA hub but could do more as we have a new long, but unused runway, better weather than ORD and plenty of gate space.
The airport commission is doing some upgrades at Lambert, they have re-done 5 out of the 6 luggage carousels, they are redoing the Saarinen ceilings in the main building but the concourses still leak when it rains! The local community just renovated the USO--it is a show place for our troops to visit and enjoy some quiet time. I'm retired military and it is the best USO in the country, IMHO.
The airport does appear cleaner this year than last and we have a few restaurants on "C" other than hot dogs and pretzels, such as Chili's and a California Pizza Kitchen. "A" Concourse is still fairly blah (UA, DL, US) and has weak food choices. East Terminal (WN) is pretty nice but showing some wear but weak food choices, but most folks just coming and going as this is a mini WN hub.
I think parking is $$ compared to BNA, CLT, etc as I see their rates as I travel about. Plus, the traffic flow all around STL is about as bad as LGAs, except for not having all the taxis. I feel bad for first time drivers trying to find their way around. I see confused looks all the time.
My dream would be to move the whole thing over to the Boeing complex across the main runways, equal airports like new Indianapolis and BNA, get a central rental car lot and better parking and eliminate the millions of shuttle vans!
DFW13L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5242 times:
I'm glad you posted this. For me, being from Shreveport, the comparison has always between SHV and JAN for BNA, MEM, STL, and CVG hub service. In the case of TWA, they held onto SHV for the duration, but ended the JAN service in 1997. The SHV service started in April 1995, and I flew on TWA my first time in late May of 1995 IND-STL-SHV (72S and DC9) to make it to a graduation.
It shifted to TWExpress flying in 2000. That always upset me because if the DC9 service had remained one more year, SHV could have had AA mainline service again for a little while.
I was also surprised to see that there were 2 LGW flights in 1998. I wasn't aware of that.
Thanks for your work in putting this together!
B595 From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 305 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5130 times:
6-8 daily departures to CID from '97 to '01. And in some of the years, all 8 departures were TWA mainline. I caught the tail-end of those times, and it was like CID was a TWA fortress. I think in the early mornings you could see 3 TWA DC9s parked at the terminal together.
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5886 posts, RR: 28 Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4839 times:
Nice chart, but I found an error. You have EVV listed as Evansville, Illinois. EVV is Evansville, Indiana. There is an Evansville, IL, but it is a really small town and doesn't have an airport. I see that EVV was all "commuter" even back in the 80s. Who was flying that route for TW and what were they flying?
Steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4792 times:
I really enjoy your detailed hub reviews, they're very informative! It's interesting to see the kind of service that STL once had compared today, regardless of whether the service is on AA or anyone else. It's hard to even fathom seeing widebodies to LGW, FRA, and CDG lined up in the current environment. I also didn't realize that TW did so much moving around of their Chicago service...sometimes all ORD, sometimes all MDW...sometimes all mainline, sometimes almost half express...sometimes a few flights a day, sometimes nearly 20.
BTW, in addition to the typo Falstaff mentioned, "Toronto" is misspelled.
JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4778 times:
Good stuff, thanks. I went to school in Missouri (MU) during the last years of Ozark and have fond memories of St. Louis as a great place to watch aircraft, what with all the TWA activity and Ozark thrown into the mix. Not only did TWA have a large number of operations out of STL, but they also had a large proportion of widebodies, primarily L-1011s and 767s with a few 747s thrown into the mix. I also remember a visit to my sister's house in suburban St. Louis in the early 1980s and seeing a lot of TWA 707s on final for STL. Visiting STL today for me is a sad experience.
Also, Lincoln, NE is LNK, not LKN, and Fayetteville, AR is FYV, not FAY (Fayetteville, NC). Otherwise, great job as usual, Greg! Also, in your other hub listings, you have Puerto Vallarta, Mexico as PVT, it's PVR.
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2840 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4554 times:
I only got to fly TW once, in the mid-90's MSY-ORD thru STL both ways. That was in the "More Room Throughout Coach" days. It was so awesome to see all that red & white parked at the gates (even though WN was already sizeable at STL then). Getting to see the L1011's in something besides DL colors, along with 747 Classics, was truly a treat!
I don't think I'd even want to go to STL now - would be too depressing.
I was blessed to fly them very often back in the day from about 82 through 90. TWA was very much a class act. A lot of my flying was STL to PHX, CMH, MKE, TPA and the Ambassador service was outstanding. I was on every aircraft type they flew including the 717.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6349 posts, RR: 50 Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4509 times:
I flew them once in September, 2000....MSY-STL-BOS on two MD-80's.
I remember walking onto the plane and immediately being impressed with the small flight route map and flight information posted on one of the bulkhead walls. It was flight 436 and I remember seeing the strange routing on the map: MSY-STL-RSW. Lots of through passengers on that one, don't ya think?
By then in flight service was not remarkable, but I remember the flight crews were all very pleasant and we were served a snack in a white plastic bag with the TWA name printed on them. Wish I would have saved that one.
LambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2055 posts, RR: 37 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 10):
I don't think I'd even want to go to STL now - would be too depressing.
I certainly hope aviation isn't depressing for you. And if it is, there are probably some bigger issues we need to talk about.
The unfortunate part to the whole St. Louis situation is that Ozark Airlines never got a chance to really become a major player on the aviation scene. Ozark was widely regarded to be the airline of choice in St. Louis and when it was absorbed into TW, I'm told by my elders that it was regarded as a sad day. At that point, Ozark was "ours" as TW was still New York based. People that I speak to liken it to Midwest of today, yet it was a more profitable operation.
JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4373 times:
They got a lot of business from my company back in the mid-90s when they had a policy whereby you could upgrade to first class (if space was available) for the price of full coach. Back in those days if you weren't staying over a Saturday night you were paying $1,000 for many coach airline tickets and as a result we used TWA quite a bit - why fly coach when you could fly first? I have fond memories of shuttling between BDL and CID via STL during that period. Probably the most interesting time was when we got a several-hour delay at the gate at CID due to thunderstorms in STL. The first class cabin drank the galley dry of booze, except for champagne, before we even pushed back. Fortunately they had plenty of champagne (well, sparkling wine really) on hand. I flew first with them quite a bit and they had the best domestic service of any carrier I've flown, they just waited on you hand and foot.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2152 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4326 times:
Quoting B595 (Reply 4): 6-8 daily departures to CID from '97 to '01. And in some of the years, all 8 departures were TWA mainline. I caught the tail-end of those times, and it was like CID was a TWA fortress. I think in the early mornings you could see 3 TWA DC9s parked at the terminal together.
yep TWA was big here in CID, and it always seemed like those mainline flights were pretty full too. I remember when they even advertised all mainline 8 x per day back in 2000 or so. Its probably the reason why AA is big here today, although most is routed to ORD and DFW, but we still get 2 STL flights. I flew thru STL on AA to ORF last summer and on other previousl occasions after AA downsized STL. C still had a bustline feel to it which was nice, of course the airfield wasn't a busy and D was viturally a ghost town.
B767300ER From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 184 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4255 times:
I remember the STL-JFK scheduled in the AM included either the TLVor CAI 767-300
being used to STL to operate the STL-OGG flights and the return STL-JFK service bringing
back the 767-300 to operate to TLV or CAI. Even though the return to JFK of the plane sat
in STL for a many hours there was many times the plane was not properly prepared for
the CAI/TLV service and JFK commisary/maintance would be upset as they had less than
two hours from its arrival for the overseas departure. Therefore since there was less than two hours
between the arrival from TLV/CAI to the departure to STL the plane was sent out in less than
stellar condition for the STL-OGG flight. Up and till the end this problem was a thorn in the
side of both JFK and STL.
B595 From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 305 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4046 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 18): yep TWA was big here in CID, and it always seemed like those mainline flights were pretty full too. I remember when they even advertised all mainline 8 x per day back in 2000 or so. Its probably the reason why AA is big here today, although most is routed to ORD and DFW, but we still get 2 STL flights. I flew thru STL on AA to ORF last summer and on other previousl occasions after AA downsized STL. C still had a bustline feel to it which was nice, of course the airfield wasn't a busy and D was viturally a ghost town.
I was happy to see that the a.net database has a few shots of TWA at CID