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Will AC Ground The 8 A330?  
User currently offlineSmeagol From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16096 times:

Although Air Canada has a relatively small A330 fleet (8 a/c as I remember), after the AF447 disaster, I am curious whether AC will ground the A330?


When you look at a pig, no matter from what angle you look at it, it is a pig...
88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16116 times:
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And why on earth would they do that??


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16093 times:

I highly doubt it. And it's been hinted that AC will be acquiring more A330s in the very near term, possibly 3 or 4.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16091 times:

Grounding a fleet of aircraft is not a lightly made decision.

It would depend on whether or not they use the Thales pilot tube or not, and if they did, if it had been replaced per the Airbus directive.

If the planes have been fixed or never had the bad part, then why would they be grounded?



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4755 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16091 times:

They just refurnished their A 333s interiors and in-flight product to bring it in line with their B 763ER J and Y class product. So I would not bet on the A 333s being phased out any time soon.

They are useful aircraft to be used on EU-Canada-EU services.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15947 times:

I thought AC would replace the A330s (and of cause the less capable 767s even before) with 787s in a move to an all-Boeing-widebody fleet.

User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8507 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15656 times:
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Quoting Smeagol (Thread starter):
Although Air Canada has a relatively small A330 fleet (8 a/c as I remember), after the AF447 disaster, I am curious whether AC will ground the A330?

- You are kidding right?

This looks like a one in a billion type accident, just remind me, how many accident free cycles have AC & it's A330 had since they entered service? - And the rest of the A330 for that matter?



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15480 times:

I highly doubt that AC would consider such a move. I'm certain they are making the effort to replace the tubes (as is DL/NW amongst other North American operators of the A330), if they haven't already. Not certain if AC uses any of these on southern hemisphere routes from YYZ to the likes of GIG etc...

[Edited 2009-06-10 10:43:22]


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15404 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):

Quoting Smeagol (Thread starter):
Although Air Canada has a relatively small A330 fleet (8 a/c as I remember), after the AF447 disaster, I am curious whether AC will ground the A330?

- You are kidding right?

This looks like a one in a billion type accident, just remind me, how many accident free cycles have AC & it's A330 had since they entered service? - And the rest of the A330 for that matter?

Yeah, its rubbish to think AC would park their A330s because of the Air France accident. There is no reason so far to think it was a technical cause that brought down AF447. But it was a technical cause that brought down BA´s 777 last year. Did AC or anyone else one ground their Triple Sevens because of that even if other 777s were affected by the same problem? No.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15376 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 5):
I thought AC would replace the A330s (and of cause the less capable 767s even before) with 787s in a move to an all-Boeing-widebody fleet.

That was the plan, but delays and finances have adjusted that plan to reality.

NS


User currently offlineSmeagol From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15284 times:

The only model I haven't try is their B772LR and A333... Big grin


When you look at a pig, no matter from what angle you look at it, it is a pig...
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24891 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15207 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 4):
They are useful aircraft to be used on EU-Canada-EU services.

Not just Europe. AC also currently uses the 333 YVR-NRT-YVR.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7472 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15188 times:

AFAIK the Black Boxes have yet to be located for AF447.

If so, why ground planes without knowing what caused the crash.


User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7068 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15108 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):
This looks like a one in a billion type accident, just remind me, how many accident free cycles have AC & it's A330 had since they entered service? - And the rest of the A330 for that matter?

Since we are being technical, has anyone stopped to consider that the problem with the pitot tubes could be related to age and wear, in which case, the fact that the a/c has already flown countless hours without incident could be a negative and not a positive? I take the OP question to be related to the issue already reported, AF is now ensuring that all their a/c have the "proper" part installed, other airlines are doing the same thing, if they have to be grounded while they replace or simply replace during a regular maintenance cycle is up to the airlines, so a client can be justified in asking the question.

Until a interim report is released, all is open to speculation, so far the first item for speculation has been the a/c speed, now that remains have been recovered, we will pretty soon know whether the terrorist angle is officially off the agenda, no one suspected that and the authorities advised as such, but that was also speculation on their part.


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3007 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15039 times:



Quoting Smeagol (Thread starter):
Although Air Canada has a relatively small A330 fleet (8 a/c as I remember), after the AF447 disaster, I am curious whether AC will ground the A330?

Why would they do that, the A330 has an excellent overall safety record...

The AF accident was the first fatal crash in commercial service for the type.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15003 times:
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another bs topic on the A330...

What will be the next one ???  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  scratchchin   scratchchin 



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineDanielb From Canada, joined May 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15004 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):


Quoting NA (Reply 5):
I thought AC would replace the A330s (and of cause the less capable 767s even before) with 787s in a move to an all-Boeing-widebody fleet.


That was the plan, but delays and finances have adjusted that plan to reality.

NS

I wish!! Hopefully one day, they'll have an all Boeing Fleet.

Danielb.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14483 times:



Quoting Smeagol (Thread starter):
Although Air Canada has a relatively small A330 fleet (8 a/c as I remember), after the AF447 disaster, I am curious whether AC will ground the A330?

Threre is still a lot of speculation out there but one thing for sure the A330 is one of the safest planes out there! Yes there seemed to have been an issue on the A332's with the pitot (speed sensors) nevertheless airlines were informed and also if issues arised the plane is still capable to be flown in a controlled matter not jepordizing the safety of passengers. Therfore at the momment it looks like that the final reason for the crash was human error. Again this is all speculation and no body knows what really happened in those last minutes of this AF flight therefore we need to wait and see. But one thing I am very certain about is that the reason for the crash was not because something is wrong with the fleet type Airbus A330-200!


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5316 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

I think any airline with the number of high-volume TATL services that AC flies would be very happy to have A330-300s in the fleet. They will be the best aircraft for those services for a long time to come.

User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13695 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):

It's a fair question however improbable. Beyond the problems with cockpit systems, if I were an investigator, I'd be paying attention to the vertical fin seperation, a curious event in this accident. If something found there ,grounding is possible since it may be first time with type but I'll bet by design the fin box is the same as the A300. But I do agree these days groundings are rare if at all...would have to be a strong case.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13384 times:
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Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 15):
another bs topic on the A330...

My thoughts entirely. Are we going to see a thread for each airline that has the A330 asking if they are going to ground their fleet because of one crash that has yet to be investigated?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1401 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12283 times:

Maybe a little off topic...

Air Canada uses the A333 on the YVR-NRT-YVR route, correct? Well if they do that, why do they use the Boeing 767 for the YVR-ICN-YVR route?

(a) Is it because of load factors (demand of passengers)?
(b) Because the Boeing 767 is more efficient on that route... though I'm a little confused about that part... I thought the A333 is better on fuel than the 767.



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12093 times:

I own a Ford Fusion. I read where somebody somewhere in the USA was involved in a fatal crash while driving a Fusion. Do you think I should get rid of mine?

Really.....what's the difference between my question and the thread starter?


User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5018 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11833 times:



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 19):
if I were an investigator, I'd be paying attention to the vertical fin seperation, a curious event in this accident. If something found there ,grounding is possible since it may be first time with type but I'll bet by design the fin box is the same as the A300.

1) There was nothing wrong with AA587's fin box design, it failed beyond ultimate load. As has been pointed out to you on several previous occasions;
2) There are NO indications at this point that AF447 crashed because the fin broke off. The fin being found relatively intact means very little, and isn't even that uncommon (look at the unrelated NZ A320, where the fin was found basically intact floating in the water as well, even though it had nothing to do with the crash).

Look, we know you don't like the idea of composite fins. You've made that clear. But it looks like that dislike is causing you to ignore evidence / findings or things numerous others, with more knowledge on the subject than you, have pointed out to you, only to repeat the mantra ("it was the composite fin") ad nauseum, in several threads. That sort of thing doesn't do anybody any good.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5316 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11326 times:



Quoting Vio (Reply 21):
Air Canada uses the A333 on the YVR-NRT-YVR route, correct? Well if they do that, why do they use the Boeing 767 for the YVR-ICN-YVR route?

Less demand. An A333 is a *much* bigger plane than a 763.

The A333 has lower CASM if you can fill it, but substantially higher raw trip cost.


25 NicoEDDF : Which exactly would change what? That an aircraft called Boeing is transporting passengers happily rather an aircraft called Airbus?
26 NicoEDDF : Sorry for being unclear. An aircraft called Boeing would transport passengers happily rather than an aircraft called Airbus would transport passengers
27 Ikramerica : It depends on what people mean by "ground" the fleet. AA "grounded" it's entire MD80 fleet at one point, in phases, in order to check/fix something. M
28 Danielb : Sorry, I didn't correctly read your comment. I have no proof that one is better than the other. I only prefer Boeing's to AIrbus's, don't get me wrong
29 SunriseValley : To add to SeaBosDca's comments; AC have their 333 setup for 265 passengers in 2-class and their 763's at 211 passengers in 2-class. Considerably less
30 Danfearn77 : Well, his involved a question about a jet powered airliner, and yours involved a car powered by a few mice under the bonnet! But i agree. One acciden
31 ZBBYLW : AC's 333s do not have the extra range that the later models have. The YVR-ICN-YVR route would be too far for the bird. Infact NRT was "just" inside w
32 Heathrow : Of course they will! It is obvious that the A330, and all airbus for that matter, are now unsafe, and they will deffinately ground their fleet. On a s
33 Viscount724 : Assume you mean 787s. I believe AC only has one 777 still to be delivered.
34 CFBFrame : I don't think the thread was started primarily to discuss the grounding of the A333 fleet due to the AF 447 crash, but to ask whether the a/c would be
35 Heathrow : yes thank you! I think you might want to double check that sir
36 Gigneil : You need to stop posting this . You've been disproven. He better avoid 777s then. NS
37 BeechNut : It was reported in the local press today that Air Canada's A333s do not have the model of Thales pitot tubes involved in the A332 service bulletin/AD.
38 SunriseValley : Do you know which Weight version they have? The current payload/range chart dated July 01/05 shows a TOW of 233t. There are versions with TOW/ MZFW o
39 FLALEFTY : This "ground the A330" nonsense is really absurd. The A330 had a flawless safety record, over 15 years, until a couple of weeks ago. The AF447 acciden
40 Post contains links Nomadd22 : http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ALeqM5iGMCXWVNgsMt8wt9Xb-aCgh7VbMg "An Australian budget flight from Japan was forced into an emergency landin
41 FLALEFTY : Look, I had the pleasure of taking one of the first DC-10 flights after it was (wrongly) grounded back in the late 1970s. As I recall, there were 15
42 LongHauler : Air Canada's A330s have a MTOW of 230,000 Kgs, a MLW of 185,000 Kgs, and a MZFW of 173,000 Kgs.
43 Chinook747 : No they use 767 and in Dec will temporarily use their 777 also YYZ-YVR
44 Pellegrine : So they are presumably WV020 models (or could be WV050 which are same weights). They will only have a small range penalty over 233t MTOW models. Does
45 CFBFrame : Sorry Heathrow- my mistake. I must have had a brain fart, putting my thoughts in the place of the thread originator.........................
46 YVRLTN : Why pick out AC?? Why not ask the same question of TS (who actually fly 200's) or the dozens of other A330 operators including AF??
47 Soon7x7 : No I don't like carbon fibre superstructures...i've seen a brand new carbon fibre trim tab on a 737-400 frackture in half under normal loads...same w
48 Viscount724 : I find it amazing that anyone would suggest grounding an aircraft that just had its first fatal accident after almost 15 years of service (plus an Ai
49 Soon7x7 : Look at it this way, your healthy till your not...your first visit to a doctor may be in a hospital because your body failed for some reason...and und
50 Usafdo : The poster has been on this site for 4 years....why would you arbitrarily single out AC and ask if they are grounding their 8 A330's? I can't imagine
51 YULWinterSkies : LOL. They actually need them before the 787 comes. Which is at least a few years. And why they just got a refurbished cabin. Otherwise no, AC will no
52 Hamster : I though Boeings were indestructible. After flying a AirAsia 320 recently, I think Airbus planes are equally good. After seeing those Boeing 777 wing
53 Scorpio : So, in other words, the NTSB, with people who know far more about this than you, were simply wrong in their report? Yes, that's of course the best wa
54 Brilondon : It a bad aircraft falling out of the sky and killing all those people. Pilots refusing to fly them in France where they are made.... I am kidding of
55 BeechNut : That does not paint a complete picture and the DC-10 did indeed have many design weaknesses some of which contributed to the AA crash; the loss of an
56 Bmacleod : Why would AC ground their A333s? The A333s are in top condition and have been very econmoical in AC's routes particulary in Europe. Last year AC repla
57 Soon7x7 : Nope...I'll never believe that an over zealous pilot ripped the tail off any aircraft, especially in a cruise configuration resulting in total airfram
58 Pnwtraveler : I have always like the AC A333. I haven't flown on any XM versions yet. AC has excellent maintenance creds so I wouldn't be at all nervous to fly on t
59 RussianJet : So we can expect to start seeing 787s falling out of the sky left right and centre in the coming years, right?
60 EA772LR : Well the A333 is substantially larger than a 763, and for certain routes, though the A333 can produce better RASM with adequate passengers, it will a
61 Babybus : Too true. We forget that any doubts about Airbus construction or operation has ramifications for Boeing too, FBW, composites, twin jets doing long ha
62 Burnsie28 : Early indications based off the photos of the tail was the plane broke up in-flight... of course its too early to tell.
63 Soon7x7 : "From Russia with Love"!...I new that was coming!,...787?,I don't think so,...Joking aside I have not followed the progress of the 787 at all however
64 AirNZ : Why is it a "curious event in this accident"? Firstly, not one shred of evidence has emerged as to exactly what caused it. Secondly, if the a/c broke
65 Scorpio : Translation: You'll keep on saying it's the plastics, facts be damned. And let's be honest: for yourself, you've already decided that the same thing
66 Viscount724 : Unfortunately the FAA prematurely grounded the DC-10 for almost 3 weeks in 1979 a month after the AA191 crash at ORD when the #1 engine and pylon sep
67 Pictues : Also the fact is the Pitot tubes on Air Canada's A330's were made by a different company then the ones on Air France's and are NOT covered by the serv
68 Soon7x7 : I have no clue what brought down the flight...neither do you, neither does anyone else here and I never said the fin brought down the flight, that wo
69 Dz09 : Planes are not designed to have a pre-determined number of fatal accidents. One accident is too many. If this model is unsafe under certain condition
70 DZ09 : Is it then wise to keep flying knowing that the same problem can happen again?
71 C010T3 : What does that have to do with anything?
72 Post contains links Viscount724 : If your policy was followed, almost every aircraft type would be grounded after many accidents. It often takes a year or more before the causes of ma
73 DZ09 : Maybe not. But this thing just fell from the sky at cruising speed. When was the last time something like this happened? There is always some initial
74 Rafaelyyz : If I were a language lawyer, I would say that it'd be an even sillier airline that flew airplanes when they knew there is a problem. If you know ther
75 Post contains links Viscount724 : That's happened several times, a few examples below which were all either at or not far from cruising altitude. In all those events it took some time
76 YVRLTN : I cant believe what I read on here sometimes... Ever been in a 747?? Or a DC10? Or a turboprop?? After one fatal crash in 15 years, the cause of whic
77 LongHauler : This is an interesting thread only because it made me think ... What aircraft ever were grounded due to design errors? The last one I can think of is
78 Soon7x7 : Amen...a refreshing whisp of common sense!...The statusticians that keep going on to say that "the model has a perfect safety record"...well not anym
79 RussianJet : No. I have been on an A340 a few times and have noticed nothing of the sort.
80 NorthStarDC4M : Since the 60s, only the Dc-10 has had an official grounding. Reasons for the DC-10 grounding at the time were valid, and there are many design issues
81 Scorpio : And yet, it's the ONLY thing you keep hammering on. While pretty much everyone else is looking at other clues, and other possible causes, you just ke
82 Soon7x7 : Your doing the hammering here...on me...whatup?! You know if we all agreed on our aspects of this event it would make for a boring thread. The bottom
83 TheGMan : Will any other operators ground their A330s? A lot more airlines use A330s than AC you know.
84 FlyingAY : If you're only making this decision based on rational reasons, I'm sure you're not flying the Boeing 737 either. The KQ 738 crash is still unsolved -
85 Soon7x7 : When you say "any other", have in fact any groundings occured regarding this event? I would imagine...don't know this to be fact but wouldn't the elc
86 Soon7x7 : The 737 has had many crashes all due to various reasons, but has proven to be a trooper of an airplane. The only design issue I have with the airfram
87 Aircellist : Concorde, also...
88 Post contains images Gofly : Given that this thread is drifting largely off-topic, a topic that was slightly spurious to start with, it's probably time to put a lid on it. Any dec
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