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Divestment Deadline..Jamaican Thread #15  
User currently offlineHummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 3164 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11608 times:
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As we are well aware, the deadline for the divesment of our national carrier was moved to the end of June...Currently, we are down to the final bids from Thomas Cook and Caribbean Airlines...Their proposals will be presented to The Jamaican Senate for a final review...

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magaz...HOMAS_COOK_MAKE_PLAY_FOR_AIR_J.asp


This thread, we will dedicate to the transitional years of JM...After 40 years of serving the Jamaican interest, our national carrier is still strong and going further..........


The Early Years...
.....................................................................................................................................
April,1969...

First Flight..




Inflight Fashion Show on Lovebird's DC-8s service..



The diverse Lovebirds who provided consistent service..The pilots who maintained JM's safety record..





http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/yardieindubai/AirJamaicaDC8LACstyle.jpg
.....................................................................................................................................

The 80s.










.....................................................................................................................................

AJAG to current..












http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/yardieindubai/70740_1225997468.jpg


Play Safe..

[Edited 2009-06-10 23:04:25]


When you feel tired, never stop..Keep climbing
221 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11622 times:

Awesome pics Hummingbird. Gives one goosebumps..:D


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineHummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 3164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11607 times:
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Quoting Captaink (Reply 1):
Awesome pics Hummingbird. Gives one goosebumps..:D

Thanks...

.........................................................................................................................................


These is my opinion why an integration will not work, especially in this economic climate..They would be in a better position working with a regional co-operation...


Economies of Scale...The Caribbean market is not as large as compared to markets in Europe and Asia...The market is well served by legacies from core North American cities.....Over the last two years, the market has evolved in one which is price sensitive....The US carriers with it's lower economies of scale will definately flood the market with cheap fares which would kill the yields of our "integrated carrier"...Regardless of what we believe and our insistence on brand loyalty..The reality is US carriers have been slowly encroaching in our territory.e.g,DL has been rapidly expanding in the region and have increased flights to the important cities such as KIN and POS...B6 is a new kid on the block and will definately be expanding services..In order to efffectively compete with these legacies, the integrated carrier will have to operate on a cost effective concept and with a diverse fleet, it would be a hindrance...


We have yet to consider the populace at large..Is this in their best interest or a mission of personal accomplishment for some governments.......LI has a monopoly on ceratin routes in the Caribbean, how often we have heard that fares within the region are over-priced..Will integration solve this problem????.....Also, as with past experiences we will have political interference, that will lead to dictatorship on the route network...Currently, LI serves some routes that are not profitable, but merely for political reasons..Will integration solve this problem or cause further dissention???..



When you feel tired, never stop..Keep climbing
User currently offlineCaymanair From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2004, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11566 times:

What makes you think the fleet would be particularly diverse? ~19 737-800 and ~23 Dash 8 sound like good fleet planning to me. There are instant savings because there are numerous stations served by BW/JM/LI that could be consolidated, staff would be reduced significantly (there only needs to be one call centre in the Caribbean, three sets of management would be reduced to one and so on) there is hardly any route overlap, all three airlines are doing very well. Economies of scale would definately exist.

JM wouldn't be reduced to some 'regional' carrier... i doubt its route network would change much from its current state. BW/JM wouldn't go made trying to connect the dots across the Caribbean. a united BW/JM/LI could connect almost anywhere in the caribbean with their existing networks within one stop. KIN-SKB via ANU or BGI-HAV via KIN dont require any changes except some slight time adjustments.

And this idea that JM would become owned by TnT is beyond me... I thought the Jamaican Government was intending to maintain a significant minority stake in the company? if the companies merged, essentially the J'can Government would own a bit of Caribbean Airlines, and if Air Jamaica was kept as subsidiary then Jamaica would still own a part of it.

In terms of foreign carriers competing with local ones... this situation already exists. And a larger carrier with lower cost structure would be more able to compete successfully.


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11564 times:



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 2):

We have yet to consider the populace at large..Is this in their best interest or a mission of personal accomplishment for some governments.......LI has a monopoly on ceratin routes in the Caribbean, how often we have heard that fares within the region are over-priced..Will integration solve this problem????

But the point is nothing much would change should BW buy stakes in JM. I mean this move is being made in an effort to save JM from its financial woes not to cure the problems of Caribbean aviation as such.

Cayman guy said it well, much is not expected to change in terms of routes, except a few connecting of the dots here and there, maybe fleet etc. The biggest change really is in who owns the company. I think we are looking at this entire thing wrong, looking at it as if the two were trying make one airline with one hub, covering the entire Caribbean and being safe from outside competition. NO. Maybe one day but not right now. The right now possibility is, that BW may practically own JM. That is it. They would face the same competition from the NA carriers, hopefully if BW runs things better, the funds would be there face this said competition effectively.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineCaymanair From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2004, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11553 times:

And one other thing.... I assume if JM became part of Caribbean Airlines, they would benefit from the same fuel hedge (artificial government subsidy) that Caribbean Airlines has from Trinidad.

User currently offlineJm02 From France, joined Mar 2009, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11541 times:



Quoting Caymanair (Reply 3):
And a larger carrier with lower cost structure would be more able to compete successfully.

Excellent post Cayman! you really hit the nail on the head there in terms of the economies of scale that could be achieved. I would only add that maintenance costs will be reduced considerably with a all Boeing fleet for short haul flights. All maintenance could be centralised in POS eliminating the cost of having manpower in Mexico. Aircraft availability should increase owing to a reduction in transit times.

Jamaica, Cuba and Cancun were the only Caribbean destinations to record growth for the just completed Winter season. Cancun registered growth of 4.7% for the January-March period followed by Cuba 2% and Jamaica with 0.2%.
In 2008 the profile of Jamaica's tourist markets was: USA - 65.1%, Europe - 16.1%, Canada - 13.4% and others - 5.4%. The Dominican Republic with figures of 33.8%, 27.4%, 16% and 23% respectively, has the most diversified visitor base. www.hospitalityjamaica.com

Following the recent GOJ guaranteed loan of $101 million, JM is set to require a further $49 million and is projected to make a loss of $63 million for the financial year. www.radiojamaica.com

Good to see this thread off to the usual Bolt like start.


User currently offlineHummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 3164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11519 times:
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Quoting Caymanair (Reply 3):
What makes you think the fleet would be particularly diverse? ~19 737-800 and ~23 Dash 8 sound like good fleet planning to me.

Easier said than done.....I hope you realise that re-fleeting the company would be a costly exercise....You have to factor that all pilots, cabin crew and maintenance staff will have to be re-trained...All aircraft spares will have to be replaced.....To return all aircrafts prior to the commencement of their leases will be the heaviest overhead..If they plan to sub-leae the aircrafts, there will hardly be any gains as the price JM is paying for their airbus is above market prices......Easily we are loking at a figure close to US$100 million..

Quoting Caymanair (Reply 3):
And this idea that JM would become owned by TnT is beyond me... I thought the Jamaican Government was intending to maintain a significant minority stake in the company? if the companies merged, essentially the J'can Government would own a bit of Caribbean Airlines, and if Air Jamaica was kept as subsidiary then Jamaica would still own a part of it.

I suggest you keep abreast with the current affairs...There has been a backlash at the recent behaviour of Trinidad towards Jamaican patties and The Jamaican manufacturers who were denied entry into T&T..This has been permeating the media and The Min of Industry has openly stated his disgust at their behaviour....
Regardless of the minority stake of the Govt, it will not be easy to win the loyalty of these Jamaican travellers ...Jamaica is well served from North America and I can guarantee the legacies will easily take advantage of the situation....

I have yet to hear of a "Jamaican" who supports this integration...



When you feel tired, never stop..Keep climbing
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11523 times:



Quoting Caymanair (Reply 3):



Quoting Captaink (Reply 4):

Very well said both of you! I agree wholeheartedly. Any interest by the GoTT and BW in JM is from the perspective of the synergies that could be gained and reduced costs of a larger operation.
Speaking plainly, the only routes JM stand to lose would be GND and BGI to JFK. To me, JM stands to gain from a large recapitalization, probably expanded route network in North and Central America, and potentially, though not necessaily immediately, a new fleet of Boeing 737s.
Further interest by Caribbean Airlines would be to secure new and future revenue streams.

Whichever bidder the GoJ eventually chooses for JM, I think one thing we can all agree on is that we want the best for JM and I for one want to see JM and succees no matter which carrier gets the proverbial nod.

My concern now is whether or not the GoJ will meet its (revised) June 30th deadline? Do we have any indication that they will? I believe we were fed much rhetoric back in March that the parties involved were working towards the deadline and expected to meet it. Anyone with more info could shed some light on this?

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineAirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11488 times:



Quoting HummingBird (Thread starter):
This thread, we will dedicate to the transitional years of JM...After 40 years of serving the Jamaican interest, our national carrier is still strong and going further..........



Quoting Captaink (Reply 1):
Awesome pics

Agree. Especially the A300 shot. Memories.

The manager of the Cement Company states his opinion on the issue...................

Merge Air Jamaica, Caribbean Airlines, LIAT

'' The Jamaican government wants to sell Air Jamaica. Like Carib Cement, no one is forcing them to sell or is stealing the company. Air Jamaica has been losing millions of taxpayers' dollars because, like Caribbean Airlines, it is a national airline. National airlines cannot survive in the current environment, but regional governments are stubborn and do not realise that the only solution is for Air Jamaica, Caribbean Airlines and LIAT to merge, just like the three cement companies: TCL, Arawak in Barbados and Carib Cement in Jamaica. ''

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/lette...AICA__CARIBBEAN_AIRLINES__LIAT.asp

Watch Cuba's tourism

'' The opening up of Cuba as a tourism destination is going to murder Jamaica's tourism industry. Please criticise my opinion, I surely hope that I am wrong on this one. ''

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/lette...53203_OBS_WATCH_CUBA_S_TOURISM.asp

The opening up of Cuba will have an effect on other Caribbean islands where tourism is concerned but to say ' murder ' Jamaica's tourism industry is a bit dramatic IMO. If the big picture is looked at there are spin off benefits than can be attained by Jamaica when they open up.

Cruise ship turned away from St Lucia, Antigua over swine flu fears

MIAMI, Florida - '' A United States cruise company says one of its ships has been turned away from St Lucia and Antigua over fears that the vessel was carrying the H1N1 virus, more commonly referred to as Swine flu. ''

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/tools/breakingnews/bnm.asp?bn=1628

A bus from Chile was stoned in Argentina as people believed that it was carrying people with H1N1. This pandemic may put somewhat of a damper on summer travel but from all indications it still promises to be a busy one for JM.



greenheart
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11483 times:



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 7):
Easier said than done.....I hope you realise that re-fleeting the company would be a costly exercise....You have to factor that all pilots, cabin crew and maintenance staff will have to be re-trained...All aircraft spares will have to be replaced.....To return all aircrafts prior to the commencement of their leases will be the heaviest overhead..If they plan to sub-leae the aircrafts, there will hardly be any gains as the price JM is paying for their airbus is above market prices......Easily we are loking at a figure close to US$100 million

Yeh but I think we can assume that if said merger goes through, we would not see a switch to all Boeing anytime soon.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
Speaking plainly, the only routes JM stand to lose would be GND and BGI to JFK

BGI maybe, but why GND? Unless you meen BW would run that route themselves, as that is a stella route for JM, they don't fool around on the GND route.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineA340Jamaica From Jamaica, joined Nov 2008, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11426 times:



Quoting Caymanair (Reply 3):
What makes you think the fleet would be particularly diverse? ~19 737-800 and ~23 Dash 8 sound like good fleet planning to me. There are instant savings because there are numerous stations served by BW/JM/LI that could be consolidated, staff would be reduced significantly (there only needs to be one call centre in the Caribbean, three sets of management would be reduced to one and so on) there is hardly any route overlap, all three airlines are doing very well. Economies of scale would definately exist.

Such a fleet would be inadequate. I don't know about BW, but JM needs an aircraft of at least the size of the 321 for JFK in particular and to a lesser extent YYZ. A 737-800 is significantly smaller than a 321; almost a 30 seat difference). The Dash 8 is also a problem as the Q400 (the only newly available Dash 8) is too big for LI but could probably work for JM or BW. I could probably agree that an ATR mixed fleet of 42's for LI and 42's/ 72' for JM/BW could work.

There necessarily will have to be three almost completely separate operations for it to have any chance of working because the routes are very different. Please tell me how a central management operation will effectively and cost efficiently coordinate the island hopping nature of LI with the long regional of BW versus the intermediate regional of JM that have completely different market focuses? Having central management that knows very little about each others markets will not help. The only JM routes that are in any way similar to BW routes are the JFK to BGI/GND routes. All the others are very different with different aircraft requirements, different competitive environments etc. Established airlines have completely separate operations for this divergence of requirements. How much savings in the grand scheme of things do you realistically expect from consolidation of stations. The Caribbean stations are almost a non issue. MIA, JFK and YYZ are the only areas where I could potentially see some level of savings. Is that enough?

In any case, irrespective of all of these expected cost savings, the new airline still will not be profitable. Far bigger airlines than the proposed sizewise will in the future have trouble being profitable. Energy prices and availability will ensure that!! And before you argue that cheap energy from T&T will mitigate that, pay attention to what is happening now with relatively cheap energy prices; the consumer has already been hammered owing to recent high energy prices thus precipitating the current economic situation and thus the airlines still suffer from falling demand despite low fuel prices :- They effectively can't win the energy game!! That's the new reality.

In my opinion, a few opportunities do exist such as connecting BZE amd some other Central American markets with the greater Caribbean basin but such an operation does not require a merged single regional carrier. I guess we will see. I know however that the manner in which this is handled be very carefully thought out as what could effectively happen is that the very fact of the merger, could result in a loss of identity in the minds of Jamaican travellers that will threaten the viability of the Jamaican side of the merged operation negating any grand goals. Note the behaviour of B6 and DL of late, they smell an opportunity!!!


User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11413 times:



Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 11):
Such a fleet would be inadequate. I don't know about BW, but JM needs an aircraft of at least the size of the 321 for JFK in particular and to a lesser extent YYZ. A 737-800 is significantly smaller than a 321; almost a 30 seat difference). The Dash 8 is also a problem as the Q400 (the only newly available Dash 8) is too big for LI but could probably work for JM or BW. I could probably agree that an ATR mixed fleet of 42's for LI and 42's/ 72' for JM/BW could work.

Wasn't there a story about JM aquiring some 757's? I heard that they might do to replace some of their aircraft after they retired the a340. IDK, but a 752 could definately fly any route that the a321 could fly. But the pilots might object to this.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7665 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11398 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
Wasn't there a story about JM aquiring some 757's? I heard that they might do to replace some of their aircraft after they retired the a340. IDK, but a 752 could definately fly any route that the a321 could fly. But the pilots might object to this

757 was ideal for the Caribbean market, however, the time to acuire the a/c has long since past, they are no longer manufactured and those in use are in high demand for their unique abilities.

Funny how in all this talk about integration essentially what we are talking about is air service between the Caribbean and various points to North America and Europe. Until we have economic integration, air travel between Caribbean islands will still be easier and cheaper via a non-Caribbean port. Bummer


User currently offlineA340Jamaica From Jamaica, joined Nov 2008, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11325 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
MIA, JFK and YYZ are the only areas where I could potentially see some level of savings. Is that enough?

Should have specified FLL rather than MIA.


User currently offlineHummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 3164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11311 times:
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Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 11):
In any case, irrespective of all of these expected cost savings, the new airline still will not be profitable. Far bigger airlines than the proposed sizewise will in the future have trouble being profitable. Energy prices and availability will ensure that!! And before you argue that cheap energy from T&T will mitigate that, pay attention to what is happening now with relatively cheap energy prices; the consumer has already been hammered owing to recent high energy prices thus precipitating the current economic situation and thus the airlines still suffer from falling demand despite low fuel prices :- They effectively can't win the energy game!! That's the new reality.

     

Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 11):
In my opinion, a few opportunities do exist such as connecting BZE amd some other Central American markets with the greater Caribbean basin but such an operation does not require a merged single regional carrier. I guess we will see. I know however that the manner in which this is handled be very carefully thought out as what could effectively happen is that the very fact of the merger, could result in a loss of identity in the minds of Jamaican travellers that will threaten the viability of the Jamaican side of the merged operation negating any grand goals. Note the behaviour of B6 and DL of late, they smell an opportunity!!!

     

Quoting Par13del (Reply 13):
Funny how in all this talk about integration essentially what we are talking about is air service between the Caribbean and various points to North America and Europe. Until we have economic integration, air travel between Caribbean islands will still be easier and cheaper via a non-Caribbean port. Bummer

     

Lets face the grim truth, economic integration will never happen....

[Edited 2009-06-12 09:00:28]


When you feel tired, never stop..Keep climbing
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10006 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11307 times:



Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 11):
I know however that the manner in which this is handled be very carefully thought out as what could effectively happen is that the very fact of the merger, could result in a loss of identity in the minds of Jamaican travellers that will threaten the viability of the Jamaican side of the merged operation negating any grand goals.

Why is this local identity so important? JM has been suffering for years which eventually was at the cost of the locals themselves due to the GOJ keeping to pour money of the Jamaican taxpayers in a loss making company. Doesn't that ring a bell among locals that running an efficient airline will be good for them as well? I think that local pride should not play any factor in any acquisition or what negative consequences any merger would be. What if a Arabian airline, Chinese airline or any other foreign airline was interested in JM but with the plan to completely change JM to make it more efficient, will that foreign airline also be unsuitable?

Will JM ever be taken over by any foreign airline if the local identity or pride keeps pushing any interested airlines away? Mergers are normal and in some cases even necessary to survive. Look at KL and AF, LH and LX etc.

What is better: Saving your airline by merging to become more efficient or saving your identity by paying for it through millions of dollars due to annual losses?

A388


User currently offlineA340jamaica From Jamaica, joined Nov 2008, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11285 times:



Quoting A388 (Reply 16):


Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 11):
I know however that the manner in which this is handled be very carefully thought out as what could effectively happen is that the very fact of the merger, could result in a loss of identity in the minds of Jamaican travellers that will threaten the viability of the Jamaican side of the merged operation negating any grand goals.

Why is this local identity so important? JM has been suffering for years which eventually was at the cost of the locals themselves due to the GOJ keeping to pour money of the Jamaican taxpayers in a loss making company. Doesn't that ring a bell among locals that running an efficient airline will be good for them as well? I think that local pride should not play any factor in any acquisition or what negative consequences any merger would be. What if a Arabian airline, Chinese airline or any other foreign airline was interested in JM but with the plan to completely change JM to make it more efficient, will that foreign airline also be unsuitable?

Will JM ever be taken over by any foreign airline if the local identity or pride keeps pushing any interested airlines away? Mergers are normal and in some cases even necessary to survive. Look at KL and AF, LH and LX etc.

What is better: Saving your airline by merging to become more efficient or saving your identity by paying for it through millions of dollars due to annual losses?

The issue is A388 that in the minds of Jamaicans, changing the identity is effectively saying JM is no longer a Jamaican airline and so what the heck. "Why bother supporting a non- Jamaican entity? What is the difference between them and AA or DL or BW or whomever you care to name?" That is how Jamaicans think regarding JM believe it or not and why rolling it into a regional carrier will not pass their test. That association and identity is a very critical asset that has over the years managed to keep JM soldiering on. I agree, no one may be interested in JM with such requirements but the way I see it, regional air travel will never be profitable in any case and the sooner we realize it, the better.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10006 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11279 times:



Quoting A340jamaica (Reply 17):
That association and identity is a very critical asset that has over the years managed to keep JM soldiering on.

Thanks for the explanation A340Jamaica. So to the Jamaican population it is better to soldier on at huge losses annually instead of actually earning money on an airline, in this case JM?

Quoting A340jamaica (Reply 17):
changing the identity is effectively saying JM is no longer a Jamaican airline and so what the heck. "Why bother supporting a non- Jamaican entity?

In other words, the Jamaican population prefers paying their own money to subsidize an airline with a bottomless debt?

A388


User currently offlineCaymanair From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2004, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11250 times:



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 7):
Easier said than done.....I hope you realise that re-fleeting the company would be a costly exercise...

It wouldn't take place overnight. The 737-800 would be a fine replacement for the airbus fleet, but there would be time to evaluate other aircraft in the 737 family if demand really required it. Would the 737-900 be a more suitable replacement for the A321? While they're at it they could go for the 737-700 as well, as it would suffice for smaller markets and have the 737-700/800/900 would give them greater flexibility. The ATR may well be the commuter aircraft they go for, but again they have a bit of time to sort that out.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 7):
it will not be easy to win the loyalty of these Jamaican travellers

It seems that whoever buys JM you think Jamaican customers will simply leave the airline in droves. What would be different if JM was bought by a little known airline from the UK? If Jamaicans truly believed that the airline should be owned by Jamaicans, then they should just fork over the cash the airline looses annually and stop complaining.

Although somehow I dont think the average Jamaican will abandon JM just because it has a non-Jamaican owner. I could see them doing so if the new owner butchered the brand and didn't understand the Jamaican traveller, but I don't think thats a risk you take with BW.

In fact, I would prefer an Emirates or someone like that to take JM. But if J'cans truly dislike the idea of owning JM jointly with Trinidad, I can hardly see them entertaining an airline owned by Arab oil money.

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 7):
I have yet to hear of a "Jamaican" who supports this integration...

me?

Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 11):
Please tell me how a central management operation will effectively and cost efficiently coordinate the island hopping nature of LI with the long regional of BW versus the intermediate regional of JM that have completely different market focuses?

I imagine the structure would be similar to LIME. C&W operated as entirely seperate companies in each country prior to the changes, while now they have a centralised management (reducing function duplication across the Caribbean) and each country has a country manager. So I assume there would be one CEO and a VP responsible for the Western Caribbean (Air Jamaica), the Southern Caribbean (Caribbean Airlines) and the Eastern Caribbean (LIAT). Something like that...


User currently offlineA340jamaica From Jamaica, joined Nov 2008, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11243 times:



Quoting Caymanair (Reply 19):
It seems that whoever buys JM you think Jamaican customers will simply leave the airline in droves. What would be different if JM was bought by a little known airline from the UK? If Jamaicans truly believed that the airline should be owned by Jamaicans, then they should just fork over the cash the airline looses annually and stop complaining.

Yes, that is exactly what is going to happen if they change the identity of JM. They will leave!!! Call it cultural, political or whatever, that is the reality. People will start going with DL to JFK, AA, NK etc. and price will be paramount. Jamaicans will not identify with a regional carrier replacing JM. If you notice I did not say they object to a change in owners. The only way this venture will succeed is if the operations, marketing and identity are kept separate.

The 737s can do nothing that the Airbus fleet does not for the purposes of JM. There is very little that separates them performance wise. The 321s have slightly more capacity than even the 900's and the Airbus fleet have a perception among Jamaican passengers of being slightly more modern.


User currently offlineCaymanair From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2004, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11238 times:



Quoting A340jamaica (Reply 20):

The Air Jamaica identity will remain... it is a requiement set down by the government. So regardless of who gets JM it will stay as JM.

Either way, the visual identity will undergo some sort of change.


The Airbus fleet works very well, which is why it will not change in the short term. However, as a unified company begins to renegotiate leases and begins to hunt down the tech savings they will want to rationalise the fleet. It may even turn out cheaper to go all Airbus and get rid of the 737's. The perception Jamaicans have of the Airbus being more modern was good marketing under AJAG, good marketing will easily make the 737-800 look better as well. And considering the average passenger doesn't have a clue what aircraft they are on, I don't see it as a prority to go around informing the public of a fleet change.


User currently offlineAirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11226 times:

Here are some more details regarding the Government's additional injection to JM.........

Shaw said "already the airline is showing marked improvement in its operation since putting the new plan in gear" which included cutting loss, making markets including Los Angeles, Atlanta, Grand Cayman and flights from Jamaica to the Eastern Caribbean.

"All the routes that have been kept are now seeing an operating profit. We are going in the right direction," Shaw noted.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magaz...HER__US_____MILLION_INTO_AIR_J.asp

I think many people are over-looking or downplaying the significant improvements JM has made since their restructuring process for divestment... focusing predominantly on core VFR routes, elimination of unprofitable routes, fleet reduction, staff reduction etc. On time performance and flight completions have also seen marked improvements and recently it was reported that they have actually surpassed expectations where operations were concerned. They still have ( a lot ) of work to do and still have humongous debts to clear but from what were have seen so far with proper management and planning ( and sticking to that plan if it works ) JM can operate profitably though inevitably they will still face the challenges all other carriers are currently facing.

Quoting A388 (Reply 18):
So to the Jamaican population it is better to soldier on at huge losses annually instead of actually earning money on an airline, in this case JM?

Well that's the thing. Many people are of the opinion that a merged entity here in the Caribbean will guarantee profits for the carrier. I agree that there are several benefits that could be attained by such a venture but there are also many factors that would effectively make such a plan equally challenging as well which were out lined in a few previous posts, including but not limited to politics, population, cost associated with fleet change, crew training, lease agreements etc. And yes identity/brand is also an important factor here. That's precisely why Mr. Wehby made it clear that the name Air Jamaica should remain. A340jamaica is quite correct when he states B6 and DL smell an opportunity in light of the proposed changes. They are very much aware how the Jamaican travelers may react and though they were already eyeing KIN and carrying out Caribbean expansion, they are effectively lining themselves up to take advantage of a ' situation ' so to speak.



greenheart
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6350 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11198 times:

Looking from afar at this T&T Jm debate...I think everyone is loosing sight of the fact that JM must do this to survive. IMHO it is divest or die.

We in the caribbean should support the fact that someone from our Caribbean family is trying to save one of our own. Lets support that idea....the idea of working together.

I assure you..if DL or someone else (other than BW) bought JM...the moment it starts losing money again...it is gone ...forever......a la TWA!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineJMBWEEBOY From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11145 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 23):
We in the caribbean should support the fact that someone from our Caribbean family is trying to save one of our own. Lets support that idea....the idea of working together.

Very well said!

JMBWEEBOY


25 A340Jamaica : I might be stirring the pot here but it is my honest opinion. BW is not trying to save one of our own. BW is trying to grow regionally and that's the
26 Post contains links HummingBird : Most persons have under-estimated the essentials of brand recognition...Most Caribbean nationals have been instilled with a sense of national pride a
27 Post contains images AirJamaica : Not only have you hit the nail on its head...you have hit it very hard !    Agree. The fact that they are able to actually see positive results alr
28 JM079 : The bid from Trinidad to the divestment committee for a sake in Air Jamaica has nothing to do with the strategic growth of the national carrier, the
29 Captaink : So the point is basically that regardless of what JM needs or BW wants to do, Jamaicans would not identify with a foreign owned airline be it regiona
30 JM079 : For the record: My opposition to Caribbean Airlines interest in Air Jamaica lies in the fact that I don't believe they can provide the synergies and o
31 HummingBird : As we have previously mentioned, DL has increased capacity to MBJ..Today, 3 757s were used from ATL..Tommorrow 4 757s are scheduled from ATL...The las
32 AirJamaica : Interesting perspective. Think they used the MD83 on ATL-KIN on Friday. Why are they in town ? Arrives MBJ about 6:30 am.[Edited 2009-06-12 22:34:42]
33 Trintocan : Well well, I have been very busy of late and have missed a lot of goings on in the region. I am quite upset about Trinidad's treatment of the Jamaican
34 LimaMike : Agreed wholeheartedly. Following this JM/BW debate for the past week it amazes me how the issue of the divestment of JM (which is the real issue) has
35 JM079 : Lets bear in mind as well that Thomas Cook is also one of Canada largest leisure company. It merged with My Travel Canada which owns Sunquest/Vacances
36 A340Jamaica : Hence my questioning the need for replacing the fleet. By the way, the 321 is quite bigger than the 900 by about 8 - 10 seats which could be quite us
37 Captaink : Don't question me. I didn't say it was necessary. HAHA.. In fact I also mentioned that if BW were to buy JM, replacing the entire fleet almost 2 as b
38 Post contains links HummingBird : They have a ground time of 12++ hours..... Talks are underway between Tourism Ministers of the Caribbean and the United States State Department, for
39 Caymanair : Everything noted above is valid... of course a BW bid is based on expanding their business and not on Caribbean integration (although I believe it wou
40 HummingBird : Dec Stats.. AA DFW-MBJ 3700-2794 76% FLL-KIN 4440-2344 63% JFK-MBJ 3463-3051 88% MIA-KIN 14329-11316 79% MIA-MBJ 16284 12821 79% North American flight
41 Post contains links JM079 : There are only two options that we have been made aware of and from where I am Thomas Cook integrated business structure so far comes across as viabl
42 Post contains links and images VirginFlyer : I've seen this sort of sentiment suggested about Air Jamaica for some time - that the attraction to its customer base is its 'Jamaicaness'. I'm wonde
43 JM079 : it goes to show that high load factor is not a measure of how a route performs. Since August we have been monitoring the info on this route and it ha
44 Post contains links and images HummingBird : MBJ has been experiencing torrential rainfall..These pics were taken within the last three hours..The pics were taken from a phone, excuse the quality
45 Captaink : I am very upset with Delta for using JM to get their foot in the market then giving them the boot and now find themselves capable of running 4 757s i
46 HummingBird : DL and US has been undercutting fares to Jamaica..They are now popular with the VFR market...JM has been able to maintain such healthy loads due to t
47 JMBWEEBOY : Nobody was a bigger fan of Air Jamaica in its first 39 years than myself. But as I posted earlier this week. the "Air Jamaica" name that so many are s
48 AirJamaica : Wonder why they stay in MBJ for so many hours during the day ? Great loads. If they did JM would only be operating from JFK and FLL into MBJ. They ar
49 Captaink : I was explaining to a member how that particular behaviour would change should JM be foreign owned and especially if the name changes. Jamaicans woul
50 HummingBird : Divestment Update ---- RUMOUR As I already mentioned to some a.netters, preference was being given to BW for JM..However, due to the recent trade wars
51 Captaink : As we say in Grenada.... GOOD TALK.. If JM pulls off doing this by themselves, kudos to them.. That would be awesome.
52 Caymanair : Totally agree, we need to bring them back into the fold! Very good to hear that! I have been saying all along that JM could be profitable... its good
53 AirJamaica : Very commendable accomplishment indeed.
54 A340Jamaica : Don't mean to sound defeatist but I don't think over the long run JM or any Caribbean carrier can be profitable. What can happen is that they are eff
55 LimaMike : I too am happy that JM could turn an operating profit, even for just one month (one has to grateful for small mercies) With regards to a possible ext
56 Post contains links HummingBird : The JM management have been following the quick turn tactics that were implemented by the GRA Consultants..If they can complete the aircrafts re-nego
57 HummingBird : CO EWR-MBJ 3146-2737 87% IAH-MBJ 3260-2520 77% DL ATL-KIN 1745-1405 81% ATL-MBJ 9876-8704 89% JFK-MBJ 2197-2014 92% NK FLL-KIN 1885-1737 92% 2610-2248
58 JM079 : The talk radio shows that are streamed live are all reporting that the MT proposal is generating a significant amount of interest from the tourism an
59 Post contains links AirJamaica : Kingston back on the map - New tourism campaign, hotel gives Jamaica's capital well-needed push '' Admittedly concerned that there are people who are
60 VirginFlyer : Out of interest, how popular with the Jamaican public is the actual concept of the government getting out of the airline? V/F
61 Post contains links JM079 : The perception of the public is more along the line of seeing the carrier becoming profitable and the removal of political appointees. The effort of
62 Post contains links JM079 : Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) released a study back in 2006 about the economic impact of Air Jamaica on the Jamaican society. The findin
63 Post contains links HummingBird : This was the period between Dec 19 and 31st..KIN has the potential for a new carrier ex JFK.. During last winter, NK reduced frequecies to 2 to KIN a
64 HummingBird : AA will now suspend KIN-FLL effective Aug 26,2009..
65 Post contains links AirJamaica : When will they resume services ? Think I read elsewhere that they will be back in the fall and discontinue again after the Christmas holiday season a
66 HummingBird : I had a discussion with a friend regarding the Thomas Cook bid...."If " they were to be awarded the bid, they would be pumping millions of dollars in
67 JM079 : Much is being made of the two interesting parties that wants a stake in the national carrier. This interest, obviously has generated a lot of discussi
68 LimaMike : Even if AA undertakes a seasonal suspension of the FLL flight one would expect them to return in Dec for the holiday season, especially since FLL-KIN
69 Post contains links AirJamaica : US court frees Air J bomb suspect '' Brown was arrested at Orlando International Airport in Florida on April 1 last year for attempting to carry bomb
70 AirJamaica : An update on JM's summer schedule: FLL - 5X daily ORD - 5X weekly MCO- 6X Weekly * JFK- 4X Daily BWI - 1X Daily PHL- 1X Daily YYZ - 1X Daily NAS - 3X
71 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.newsday.co.tt/commentary/0,102214.html George Alleyne commentary in the Newsday daily of Trinidad calling for a regional airline has confir
72 JM079 : There is. GND and BGI should be added as well.
73 HummingBird : I was thinking the same, however I assume, they are trying to rebuild the market for the summer travel period..AA has a sizebale market from FLL-KIN,
74 HummingBird : IMO.. Hidden in the body of that article is the explicit statement that ownership of such a merger is going to be the GOTT..The GOTT's interest in JM
75 JM079 : Interestingly enough the FLL and NYC are strong JM markets. If you notice that AA, DL and others have cleaned up there house and have all indicated k
76 JM079 : I am agreeing to that view as recent movement by the GOTT in fostering economic development supports that position. Anyone who has been following all
77 Post contains images AirJamaica : Agree.    Made that posting while I was on the job. Was rushing. That is the part of the equation I have a problem with. Thats quite a '' gesture '
78 JM079 : I don't think the GOJ intended to pursue a strategy in which it offload JM to another regional government. If that was the case then what would have
79 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=161492091 Reginald Dumas is asking his government stop important questions about there atte
80 Post contains links AirJamaica : Not the impression I got either based on the requirements outlined by the divestment committee. Quite an interesting read. Thanks for sharing. 800 st
81 Post contains links HummingBird : A great move to foster the needs of these young children and for them to get a wider exposure to the aviation industry.. Thanks for your journalistic
82 Post contains links JM079 : There is a lot of info that is out there about the MT and its financial state yet still this is private company that normally is quite reticent about
83 Post contains links HummingBird : Agree.. Thanks for the input.. Also, JM is the preferred carrier for Island Jam that will be held at Grand Lido Braco from June 25-28... http://jis.g
84 Post contains links JM079 : The crew of the Canjet flight that experienced the attempted hijack in Montego Bay was received by the Governor General of Canada, Her Excellency the
85 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.enerjet.ca/flightschedule.html Enerjet has released there summer schedule which shows flights out of YVR and YYC to MBJ
86 Post contains links JM079 : Bruce Noble has revealed his vision for Air Jamaica in this interview. Interestingly enough a member of the Jamaica Senate asked this question; ...."T
87 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/18999/52/ Jamaica is in London lobbing the UK Government to rescind there decision to increase the travel tax
88 Post contains links AirJamaica : Again Ed and the team must be commended for their hard work. Agree. People may lament about how much millons JM has lost over the years, which routes
89 Ilanbwoy : You know....for a world economy which is supposedly doing bad...there are a lot of people travelling. I went to "yard" last week and unfortunately had
90 JM079 : I can't help but to see the bigger picture in your posting. You have confirmed what we have seeing in those loads posted on a monthly basis that Jama
91 HummingBird : Am not surprised MBJ has been able to have a year round service from YYC and YVR.. The reason the current utilisation will remain low is due to the r
92 JM079 : The issue is about accountability and openness. When you have state entities using tax-payers money and not reporting to an oversight body such as th
93 Post contains links JM079 : It is being reported that one of the major summer attractions for the region. The inaugural staging of the first ever sporting event - The Caribbean G
94 AirJamaica : No wonder they have decided to increase their frequencies again. Good to hear that the NK flight was a pleasant experience. I have read a couple TR's
95 HummingBird : I would love to see a flight operating to Asia, however my only concern is why not have a flight that operates with a fuel stop in ANC..To route the
96 JM079 : In one of the updates that were given recently the minister responsible for JM he advised that one of the three serious bidders was only interested i
97 Post contains links JM079 : AIR JAMAICA is returning to Barbados for Crop-Over. The airline will begin a twice-weekly service from New York on July 1, and will continue operating
98 AirJamaica : That is good news. If memory serves me correctly when JM recently operated the YYZ-MBJ legs ( when was this again...Christmas I think ) it did well.
99 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...mas_Cook_Aviation_Video-14837.html The audacity of hope......lol
100 Post contains links JM079 : This observation of yours some how seems appropriate as this bit of news is a strong indication of what is to come: ........"JetBlue on June 18 launc
101 HummingBird : I hope the new owners will change the flight times to BGI for December.. Yep....The December loads were exceptional... I realised with vertical integ
102 Post contains links JM079 : I am looking at some info about the performance of TAM ( http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1245370652.html ) and it highlights the performance of the
103 JM079 : Radio Jamaica is reporting that St Lucia is calling for a forensic investigation into Liat's operation due to what it seems as gross mis-management of
104 Post contains links JM079 : CARICOM leaders will be meeting in Guyana for there annual meeting in July and there is a report on www.jis.gov.jm that there agenda has changed so t
105 AirJamaica : ........Cool A330 video clip. I remember in a recent post someone suggested that the JTB should be targeting this market. Wouldn't be surprised. Expe
106 JM079 : I was day-dreaming of seeing it in a different color scheme - I really think so too as his public comments on the approach he is using to regain stab
107 HummingBird : Yesterday, JM received an A321 from MEX...This will add to the other A321 that is being used soley on the JFK-MBJ-JFK-GND-JFK run...The aircraft will
108 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/19057/26/ The Tourism Minister Ed Bartlett is predicting that Jamaica could lose up to 50 million pounds if B
109 OB1504 : Would anyone happen to know the exact date of JM's first flight and the aircraft type used? I know it's a bit of a strech, but is it possible that the
110 AirJamaica : April 1st 1969. MIA operated with a DC-9 and JFK with the DC-8. Not certain of the registration numbers though.
111 A340Jamaica : Why? Isn't NK and the limited AA service enough. That will drive down yields and threaten the very resurgence of JM that we are all talking about. NK
112 A340Jamaica : As stated, A Douglas DC9 left Kingston April 1 1969 For Miami International while simultaneously a DC8 departed John F Kennedy for Kingston.[Edited 2
113 Post contains links JM079 : Ever since Port of Spain submitted a bid for Air Jamaica there has been a firestorm of comments from various sectors of the Jamaican society such as t
114 HummingBird : The officials at KIN are now scouting for new carriers to operate into KIN..They were already successful with B6 from JFK and believe their entrance
115 Post contains links JM079 : http://caribbeannetnews.com/news-17232--7-7--.html Adrian Loveridge a local hotelier in BGI has written to complain about Liat's fare and to highligh
116 Post contains links FuturePilot16 : Quick question. I saw this photo of a North American operating as JM 70 to MBJ. Who would fly this aircraft and why did they switch equipment? http://
117 LimaMike : " target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...5884e JM had seasonal wet-leases with NA, especially during summer/christmas periods. Usually
118 AA1818 : I ask myself this question all the time. Something needs to be done about LI. Earlier this year it was cheaper to fly from POS-MIA/ FLL than POS-BGI/
119 Post contains links JM079 : If the tourism and aviation minister is correct in this statement: ....."citing all sorts of reasons why the fares should be cheaper including ‘the
120 Post contains links JM079 : Virgin has announced that it will be adding the 330 to its fleet soon. There is speculation that it will be based at LGW and could be a replacement fo
121 AirJamaica : True. The good thing though is that fares will be competitive for the traveler and the carriers will be forced to maintain good service levels on the
122 Post contains links HummingBird : For that period they operated 9 rotations to ORD... With the configurations more suitable for Caribbean operations, we may eventually see daily servi
123 Post contains links JM079 : The point must be made that Air Jamaica carries over 350,000 people last year out of South Florida and has maintained that number from previous years
124 HummingBird : So basically, by charging high fares to St Lucia, LI is able to sustain other loss making routes...I was told by a reliable source that this behaviou
125 HummingBird : Tis is the week for the "big" announcement....Major structural changes ahead.....
126 Post contains links and images AirJamaica : Bartlett lashes UK flight tax "The structure of APD as an environmental tax suggests that the impact of a flight to Jamaica or Barbados is greater tha
127 JM079 : I am more looking forward to next week as the Cabinet meets every monday and yesterday session was dominated by other economic matters. You know wher
128 JM079 : JM summer schedule has commenced and there are some changes to the GND and MBJ route with the carrier switching to a 757 from North American Airlines
129 HummingBird : Lol..Am with you 100%.. Oh boy!....... In addition to FRA-UVF-TAB-FRA....DE will be launching FRA-HOG-NAS-FRA for winter 09....
130 Post contains links AirJamaica : Would be great if we could get some feedback from someone in GCM on the current situation at KX. I too would have expected them to adjust their sched
131 HummingBird : The latter addition is new.. It was reported on CNN that Jamaica is seeing the highest outbreak in the region... In today's Gleaner, Caribbean Airlin
132 Post contains links JM079 : I highly doubt a response will be forthcoming but in the interest of a health discussion a major feed back would be most welcome. I am curious as to
133 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.travelagentcentral.com/go...nual-golf-tournament-jamaica-15922 Air Jamaica will be the official airline of the 4th Annual Jamaica Invitatio
134 Caymanair : Public companies in Cayman must also report to the L.A., but these reports are sealed and not pubic documents because they refer to companies and the
135 Post contains links JM079 : Sorry, I am having a hard time buying that as public funded companies such as airlines, bus companies, water and electric are accountable to the publ
136 JM079 : I can advise that the decision of the divestment committee will be sent to the GOJ by the middle of July and the bidder will be know then. In a Q & A
137 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161496395 There is some major news out of Trindad tonight as the Prime Minister has announced
138 HummingBird : Never.... Another extension... This leaves Thomas Cook as the only viable contender..I have a funny feeling we may hear of an unannounced bidder.. If
139 JM079 : We need to follow President Obama's example. Well, I am taking my cue from the specific requirements of the divestment committee and the fact that th
140 HummingBird : Which one, lol... With this being said, we can start to speculate the future of JM and the role the new bidder will play in developing the tourism in
141 Bw415 : Too much pride perhaps?.. when CAL becomes the one and only and JM is no longer an entity...there will really be no need for two threads but only in
142 HummingBird : If that is the case (which has a 5% probability)....We will have to cross that bridge when we get there... Another DAsh8/B737NG base....
143 HummingBird : A further update on the divestment. Deadline not met..Parliament will be advised on Monday...
144 Bw415 : Are you sure its not 5.21%?.. what support do you have for this?.. pm me if you don't wish to put it on the main forum.. but unless you are on the di
145 Post contains links HummingBird : Unless CAL can bring forth a plan to increase tourist arrivals to Jamaica versus the established global tour operator Thomas Cook, we can all assume
146 Post contains links JM079 : I think we have enough confidence in our government to make decisions that are in the strategic interest of the Jamaican people so when they decided
147 Post contains links JM079 : Guyana is complaining that Caribbean Airlines fares are too high. We have St Lucia complaining about LIAT so what is really going on. http://www.jamai
148 JM079 : From what I gather then T & T will be moving the existing facility at POS to Grenada in the near future and this is being done to increase trade or f
149 Bw415 : Don't pick apart my post and take things out of context to make a point.. Unlike you I am not standing on my soap box preaching "firmly" that anyone
150 Post contains links JM079 : Dennis Morrison, a former head of the JTB has advised that the commericial agreement with Brazil has ensured a special role for Air Jamaica on the rou
151 Caribbean484 : Some analysis in the statements of operational market analysis is needed before making comments. I suggest that you look in the Caribbean forum where
152 Caymanair : I'll believe it when I see it. Neither Caribbean Airlines or Thomas Cook provide what Jamaica really needs... I say it would be better of there was j
153 AirJamaica : Indeed. Thanks for the details. But 2 for 1 offer on GCM-KIN/MBJ during summer where it is the only carrier is clear indication that the demand has d
154 JM079 : I am really sorry but no offense please but I am having difficulty understanding the logic in your posting . What are you trying to say? wow. really!
155 JM079 : Yea am curious though as that issue seems to be glossed over in these discussions as it is a major criteria in the divestment process. Are we the onl
156 AA1818 : Because the GoJ isn't interested in a merger. They want cash in exchange for JM and have a certain vision that it may be maintained somewhat independ
157 HummingBird : This is sending a wrong message...This shows how the Caribbean markets are under-devolped in terms of competition... Interesting developments... To b
158 Ilanbwoy : Hello all, Been away for a few days and must say that i have never been interested in reading the caribbean aviation thread, but after reading some of
159 A340Jamaica : Let's just say that both the Jamaican government and the Trinidad government know what the result will be if JM is sold to CAL. It will not work. Hav
160 Drbird : What are the possibilities of any surprises when the government make that announcement in July? And I still can't figure out why CAL & Thomas Cook are
161 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magaz...LAN__FOR_AIR_JAMAICA___PART_II.asp This is the second part of Air Jamaica's president interview in which he out
162 Bw415 : If only wishes were horses.. I totally agree that we shouldn't call names though.. these perpetrators know who they are.. and the immaturity is just
163 AirJamaica : Agree. And not one that will just acquire JM for their sole interest. Real food for thought there. Agree. When the Jamaican Thread was created it was
164 Caymanair : And who will that be? Why would anyone aquire JM for any other reason?? You want to have your cake and eat it too. Anyone who buys JM will butcher it
165 Post contains links JM079 : http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/19242/52/ The Ministry of Tourism is reporting that there has been a 5% increase in arrival for the month of
166 JM079 : No, the arguments that have put forward was based on JM and BW merging to form a regional entity. Others have suggested it will be an indigenous regi
167 JM079 : I am going to add something to this comment as I think it is crucial - not aviation related. Someone wrote that there is a serious undertone of ethno
168 HummingBird : Mr Golding is sending a strong message..I don't think we should concentrate on the BW bid.. You have the support of myself and other Jamaicans..... T
169 AA1818 : Thank you Caymanair for restoring my faith in A.Netters! I was wondering the same thing. Infact, I have it on good sources from CAL, at the very high
170 AirJamaica : Great stuff indeed. Again Mr Bartlett must be commended for his hard work. I really like the pro-active approach that is being taken. Very commendabl
171 HummingBird : Apparently one aircraft is down in YYZ....Between yesterday and today, NA 752 did the following legs.. 11-10-18-15-14 JFK-MBJ-JFK-KIN-JFK.....Hopefull
172 JM079 : Why does this sounds like an essay based on a topic (The Divestment of Air Jamaica) that was given by a teacher to her class to write on a particular
173 HummingBird : Does this mean, The Committee may have re-visitied these alternatives with the hopes that one may be another serious bidder..... Take a hint.... Am s
174 Post contains links JM079 : Jamaica's effort in lobbying the British Government to rescind the Air Passenger Duty (APD) to be introduced in October will bear some results. It is
175 A340Jamaica : If Thomas Cook hopes to have any reasonable return on their investment should they win, they will keep the JM name. It does not matter whether it is
176 AA1818 : Don't apologize for that, Trinis are proud as well, though we are proud through actions not merely words! Why would the GoJ approach POS? It would in
177 Post contains links JM079 : A case of the devil in the print. "We are unapologetically proud to be Jamaicans Am sure your govt will disagree with that statement as they are quit
178 Post contains images AirJamaica : No doubt politics will also play a role in this decision. One very interesting aspect of this project is the following disclosure by the Government:
179 JM079 : The decision to sub-lease the 320s was perhaps a prudent one but as JM CEO admitted it is now problematic. I can understand that for good measure as t
180 HummingBird : I can imagine the traffic at MBJ when all these properties are completed...This should further enhance the diversification process of the tourism ind
181 Post contains links Caribbean484 : Sorry but that is incorrect, from the latest data as of April 2009 and for the entire year 2008, Nonstop cities from JFK 1) MBJ, 2) POS, 3) KIN, 4) B
182 A340Jamaica : The thing though is that it is hard to separate out MBJ and KIN regarding VFR/business. There is a significant percentage of VFR traffic from JFK tha
183 JM079 : That report from the Port Authority has provided some clue to the volume of traffic out of JFK by Air Jamaica. Quite and interesting reading. I have l
184 BWIA 772 : I really do not see how you can make the above statement when the claim of cost savings resulting from a BW take over of JM (as it relates to the fle
185 JM079 : I am still standing by my position and suggest you revisit the threads from 63 -65 in the Caribbean forum and read the various positions that were ar
186 Post contains links JM079 : I think you will appreciate this link which gives a broad view of the subject matter and puts into focus the tenuous nature of things and how it rela
187 AirJamaica : Very true indeed. Many people tend to over look that. That's why I would really like JM to operate YYZ-MBJ services as I am positive it would also ge
188 Post contains links JM079 : The MBJ leg is quite competitive as Air Canada, Skyservice, Air Transat, Westjet and Sunwing dominates. In the past when Air Jamaica was on the route
189 Drbird : So we should look to see JM serving at least 2 other Canadian destination from MBJ should Thomas Cook becomes the preferred bidder?
190 Post contains images Beeweel15 : BW / JM merger what do you think.
191 HummingBird : Due to the delay of the announcement, I will have a part 2 verion of the current thread.. A Miami Air B738 arrived from LAX last Monday..The aircraft
192 JM079 : At the moment based on the current air service agreement with Canada JM can serve YUL and one city west of Ontario to Jamaica. I am also trying to un
193 VirginFlyer : Canadian? Isn't Thomas Cook Group registered as a British public company, 52.8% owned by a German company (which is presently in insolvency)? What pr
194 Yellowtail : For those who read the caribbean and Central American forums....you will be somewhat up to date on this... MW is finally launching its regional carrie
195 Captaink : If and when BW/JM merger, we will not be seeing the riddance of 10 A320s any-time soon.. Such a replacement would be extremely costly especially afte
196 Bw415 : I beg to differ on that one depending on your definition of immediate future.. they won't be gone as soon as the buy out is completed but rather when
197 BWIA 772 : I think you are stating the obvious regarding the time frame. With regards to the cost of switching switching the fleet, as I stated earlier, the res
198 Post contains links AirJamaica : Air Jamaica begins seven weekly flights to Orlando today EFFECTIVE today Air Jamaica is flying seven weekly times between here and Orlando, having add
199 Post contains links AirJamaica : Just came across this one.................. Air J workers restive, in the dark about airline buyer '' The employees are said to be concerned that the
200 JM079 : Thomas Cook brand in Canada is registered under the name of North American Leisure Group -A Canadian federally-incorporated tour provider based in To
201 JM079 : An A.netter once criticized this route as the worst performing in the route network and I was quite puzzled by that position as MCO has always been t
202 AirJamaica : I vividly remember as well. MCO may not be a FLL, JFK or YYZ yield wise but there is a reason why during the summer its daily and outside of summer t
203 HummingBird : The ATR can handle all three legs..Finally we have a carrier bridging the gap between BZE and the rest of the Caribbean....I can assure you the Cayma
204 Jmc777 : Thomas Cook is indeed a UK registered company. The group fleet is operated as detailed below for Summer 2009: Thomas Cook Airlines - UK A320 - 12 A321
205 HummingBird : Thanks for the info..I did not realize that Thomas Cook had so may European subsidaries..This will bode well with the tourism interests..It will offe
206 JM079 : So, why didn't the team travel via London on VS or BA. That seem far more logical. Or is there a problem too with the UK not granting intransit visas
207 HummingBird : A correction to the previous statement....They will fly KIN-MBJ-HAV-MAD-VER.. Here is a quoute from the article.. The Jamaican sports fraternity has
208 AirJamaica : Thanks for the exact breakdown. Would be a welcome assistance to routes such as JFK-GND etc. The visa issue is always a sour point with these meets.
209 Yellowtail : Because it needs about 70 seats a day to KIN (not MBJ), on a reasonable fast aircraft (IIRC the JM 320 flying time was about 90 min), and it needs to
210 Post contains links HummingBird : Finally, no more baggage issues, lol.. http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=b...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE= According to The G.C.M, the flight d
211 JM079 : Are you sure about that as the divestment of Air Jamaica calls for the GOJ to retain a 30% interest in the company? Your comparison to what occurred
212 A340Jamaica : JM's MCO flight pulls its passengers from much further than MCO/TPA. Add Daytona Beach, Melbourne/Palm Bay, Ocala, Gainesville to that list. I know o
213 AirJamaica : Very true indeed. I know people in West Palm Beach who use JM at MCO to get to Jamaica when they want to, even though FLL & MIA ( airports which they
214 Post contains links JM079 : It was highlighted recently that the carrier achieve betters loads and yield on flights that it operates from point to point unlike hubs where it com
215 Bw415 : CAL is currently solely owned by GOTT.. GOJ's relationship with the airline will be much of the same as GOTT with CAL...just because you own doesn't
216 BWIA 772 : Are you aware of the variants of the Boeing 737 NG family? Boeing 737 600 basically competes with the A318 Boeing 737 700 basically competes with the
217 Captaink : I have to beg to differ on that as well. Replacing that many Airbus with Boeings in two years would prove to be VERY expensive and really doesn't mak
218 A340Jamaica : Assuming Caribbean Airlines gets JM, I can assure you they will not be needing 20 jet aircraft as 1/2 to 3/4 of JM's former load will vanish to DL, N
219 Captaink : Well JM loads vanishing to the competition is another speculative possibility. Regardless, unless the new entity reduces the JM side of things then a
220 Ilanbwoy : I agree with u Captaink. I dont think the loads will vanish that quickly. Some might go, but not all. Who ever will eventually get this company will
221 Post contains links HummingBird : Ok..However as you can see airlines are not scrambling to operate the B737-600 and B737-700 in mass numbers due to it's high CASM..These aircrafts ar
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