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TAM Marks 10 Years In CDG  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4716 times:

On 10 June 1999 TAM landed for the first time in Europe, in CDG. Today TAM makes 10 years in Paris, CDG a route which formed the base of its European expansion.

As a coincidence 2009 is also the Year of France in Brazil.

10 years ago TAM started flying to CDG with a 3 x week flight, today TAM operates 3 daily flights in CDG, 2 x day GRU-CDG A332 in 3 classes and 1 x day GIG-CDG A332 in 3 classes. CDG was TAM second long-haul route after MIA.

Since the start of CDG flights TAM carried more than 2.3 million pax on this route.
10 years ago TAM was Brazil's 4th biggest airline, today TAM is not only Brazil's no. 1 for domestic and international flights, but also Latin America's no. 1 airline.

10 year ago TAM only operated MIA and CDG as long-haul destinations, today TAM serves MIA, JFK, MCO (in the US) and CDG, MXP, LHR, FRA, and MAD (in Europe). GRU-JNB is expected to be the next long-haul route, while in South America TAM flies to EZE, MVD, ASU, SCL, VVI, CCS, LIM, CBB, AGT and BRC. TAM also flies to 79 domestic destinations Brazil.

TAM has 24,000 staff and its current fleet is composed of the following 132 aircraft:

20 A319
82 A320
5 A321
16 A330
2 A345
4 B773
3 B763

TAM has also started the process of joining Star Alliance and has agreements with UA, LH, TP, LX, AC, BD, CA, PU and LA. TAM Fidelidade FF program has 5.5 million members making it among the biggest in the world.

Rgs,

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4692 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Since the start of CDG flights TAM carried more than 2.3 million pax on this route.

And I was on this route four times with them!

Parabens! Congratulations to TAM!  champagne 


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4632 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
10 years ago TAM started flying to CDG with a 3 x week flight, today TAM operates 3 daily flights in CDG, 2 x day GRU-CDG A332 in 3 classes and 1 x day GIG-CDG A332 in 3 classes. CDG was TAM second long-haul route after MIA.

From the 2x daily GRU, twice weekly the planes make stops creating GRU-SSA-CDG and GRU-REC-CDG.

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
10 year ago TAM only operated MIA and CDG as long-haul destinations

Plus FRA/ZRH that they dropped a few months later. And that's why they at that time made a wet lease of 4 A332 to Etihad as they only need 6 planes for 2 CDG and 2 MIA flights.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4608 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
From the 2x daily GRU, twice weekly the planes make stops creating GRU-SSA-CDG and GRU-REC-CDG

Thanks for this important information because it means TAM creats a nonstop link between REC and SSA to CDG.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
Plus FRA/ZRH that they dropped a few months later. And that's why they at that time made a wet lease of 4 A332 to Etihad as they only need 6 planes for 2 CDG and 2 MIA flights.

I think TAM must have regretted the decision because soon after the market recovered. It was a time TAM management was very conservative and the airline was growing very slowly, but it was important to create the foundation for what TAM is now.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4599 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
I think TAM must have regretted the decision because soon after the market recovered. It was a time TAM management was very conservative and the airline was growing very slowly, but it was important to create the foundation for what TAM is now

The big issue at that time was the power of RG being a Star player. LH+RG just destroyed any chance of JJ, at that time, to access FRA market. In 2005, RG power was not so huge and JJ begin to, step by step, grow and take over some spaces at LHR and JFK.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

When the economy recovers, and JJ acquires more long-haul aircraft, which new destinations do you think TAM will add in North America, or across the Atlantic? Also, do you think that JJ is exploring whether to return to some of east Asian destinations that RG once served, such as NRT, NGO, or HKG?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4561 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 5):
When the economy recovers, and JJ acquires more long-haul aircraft, which new destinations do you think TAM will add in North America, or across the Atlantic?

In my view, ZRH, BCN and FCO in Europe are possible destinations (plus GIG-FRA/LHR). In North America, ORD or more services to MIA. MEX come as a possible destination



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4554 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
The big issue at that time was the power of RG being a Star player. LH+RG just destroyed any chance of AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ, at that time, to access FRA market. In 2005, RG power was not so huge and AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ begin to, step by step, grow and take over some spaces at LHR and JFK.

This is correct.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
In my view, ZRH, BCN and FCO in Europe are possible destinations (plus GIG-FRA/LHR). In North America, ORD or more services to MIA. MEX come as a possible destination

I think GIG-FRA, no need for explanation.

Then comes markets such as ZRH or LIS in Europe, and in the US more MIA services as you said, LAX (which is UA's Star hub) or ORD. MEX now has really had a big hit (AM is operating with loads of 30%) - but hope this is temporary.

Elsewhere I would not be surprised with a come back of NRT (perhaps via ORD or LAX?) or even PEK.

Rgs,


User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4542 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
As a coincidence 2009 is also the Year of France in Brazil.

poor timing, or just a jinx ?  indifferent   indifferent 


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4539 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
AM is operating with loads of 30%

Really, I thought they had managed to stay in 50s, while MX was really on the 30s. I really feel sorry for MX. They had the wrong timing for the route. They are even running constant ad campaigns in Rio, which is something AM never did.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4534 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Really, I thought they had managed to stay in 50s, while MX was really on the 30s. I really feel sorry for MX. They had the wrong timing for the route. They are even running constant ad campaigns in Rio, which is something AM never did.

That's i info i had for MX before the Flu crisis, around 30% and with a huge possibility that they drop the route very soon.
I would put to your list (timing and route), the schedule. Daylight to MEX wasn't a good idea.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4526 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Really



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
I really feel sorry for MX. They had the wrong timing for the route.

See second para. of the below report:

http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...ermina-em-sp_48035.html?pesquisa=1

AM had load factor of 33% last month in MEX-GRU. But this is widespread and all routes are suffering, US-MEX routes are the hardest hit, Europe-MEX are also very, very bad. I am sure MX load must have been below 30%. For you to have an idea, hotel occupancy rates are below 30% in Mexico. To make matters worse Mexico insist in asking visa for Brazilians and in a desperate measure they opened a Consulate in POA.

I am really sorry for Mexico and lets hope they recover quickly.

Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 8):
poor timing, or just a jinx ?

I think this was good timing...

Rgs,


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4483 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
ZRH, BCN and FCO in Europe are possible destinations (plus GIG-FRA/LHR). In North America, ORD or more services to MIA. MEX come as a possible destination



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
I think GIG-FRA, no need for explanation.

Then comes markets such as ZRH or LIS in Europe, and in the US more MIA services as you said, LAX (which is UA's Star hub) or ORD. MEX now has really had a big hit (AM is operating with loads of 30%) - but hope this is temporary.

Elsewhere I would not be surprised with a come back of NRT (perhaps via ORD or LAX?) or even PEK.

Maybe when all is said and done, TAM may eventually rebuild Varig's international route network with some minor adjustments.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4458 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 12):
Maybe when all is said and done, TAM may eventually rebuild Varig's international route network with some minor adjustments

The fact that are markets with service in the past increased the O&D flow and for sure, with a few exceptions (BCN, SVO, DXB/DOH) the previous RG markets will become the first JJ markets.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4440 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
SVO, DXB/DOH)

As far as I remember, RG never served SVO, DXB, or DOH. However, RG flew to BCN.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4436 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 14):
As far as I remember, RG never served SVO, DXB, or DOH. However, RG flew to BCN

They were the exceptions i mentioned (BCN i was not expecting to have been served by RG in the past)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4421 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
exceptions i mentioned

Did RG operate charters to SVO, DXB, and DOH on an extended basis? Flights to these cities never appeared in RG timetables. When did RG operate these routes?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
BCN i was not expecting to have been served by RG in the past

I no longer have the old timetables, but RG flew to BCN in the late 1980s and 1990s. Some of these flights may have stopped in MAD.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4387 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 12):
Maybe when all is said and done, TAM may eventually rebuild Varig's international route network with some minor adjustments.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
The fact that are markets with service in the past increased the O&D flow and for sure, with a few exceptions (BCN, SVO, DXB/DOH) the previous RG markets will become the first JJ markets.

I agree and we see this clear pattern with TAM routes which by and large follow RG previous operations. The only difference is that in some markets TAM is operating more frequencies such as JFK, MIA and CDG, and some other markets served by RG in the past and which TAM has not yet started flights, among them JNB (due to start soon), LAX, NRT, AMS, CPH and HKG. Out of these ones I think there is real chance of TAM to operate in JNB, LAX and NRT.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 16):
Did RG operate charters to SVO, DXB, and DOH on an extended basis? Flights to these cities never appeared in RG timetables. When did RG operate these routes

No, but we already had Aerolflot flying to Brazil. What Lipe said is that these are new emerinmg markets. What was of DXB or DOH about 10 years ago, at the time of RG.

Rgs,


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4368 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
among them JNB (due to start soon), LAX, NRT, AMS, CPH and HKG. Out of these ones I think there is real chance of TAM to operate in JNB, LAX and NRT.

I think that LAX, NRT, and one city in China (HKG, PVG, or PEK) are likely candidates. In North America, ORD, YYZ, and IAD may be possibilities later on. In Europe, I think that FCO, LIS, BCN, and ZRH should be TAM's priorities. After JNB, I doubt that JJ will add other destinations in Africa for a long time, although a route to LAD would probably prove profitable. I don't expect JJ to fly to IST or Middle Eastern destinations with its own aircraft until far in the future.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4353 times:
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Quoting IAD380 (Reply 16):
Did RG operate charters to SVO, DXB, and DOH on an extended basis? Flights to these cities never appeared in RG timetables. When did RG operate these routes?

SVO, DXB and DOH as exceptions of previous RG routes, i.e. RG never flew.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4267 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
AM had load factor of 33% last month in MEX-GRU

These numbers are I surprise for me. I was two times ont his route, in 2005 and 2006, both AM, and flights were full. Also, I had the impresion that both RG and AM used to do very well on the route. If weren't for these numbers, i'd bet on MEX as a JJ potential next destination.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 5):
When the economy recovers, and JJ acquires more long-haul aircraft, which new destinations do you think TAM will add in North America, or across the Atlantic?



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
and some other markets served by RG in the past and which TAM has not yet started flights, among them JNB (due to start soon), LAX, NRT, AMS, CPH and HKG. Out of these ones I think there is real chance of TAM to operate in JNB, LAX and NRT.

I agree that ex-RG routes are likely to be JJ next ones. I believe on a LHR-CPH and CDG-AMS (GRU service) tags. Also, I see possibility for a MAD-BCN tag, combined with the start of GIG-MAD non-stop that would take some pax out of GRU-MAD service. Non-stop Europe likely destinations, IMO, would be LIS, FCO and maybe ZHR. I believe a lot on a Asian destination, that could be either PEK or NRT. In NRT's case, could be combined with a new LAX service (GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT). For PEK, I'd bet the stop would be either on MAD or JNB. If in MAD, they could code-share flights with Air China.



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4238 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 20):
These numbers are I surprise for me. I was two times ont his route, in 2005 and 2006, both AM, and flights were full. Also, I had the impresion that both RG and AM used to do very well on the route. If weren't for these numbers, i'd bet on MEX as a JJ potential next destination.

This is just temporary due to internal factors in Mexico (violence, flu, natural disaster, etc). I also used AM twice on business and my flight with AM was close to 100% load. MEX-GRU is a very profitable route with very high yields. It is AM best performing business class route. As I said, this is temporary, but we do not know yet when the Mexican market will recover, it could take some months from now. MEX-GRU is one of the most important city pairs in the world as it links to major emerging economies and two of the world's biggest cities.

But as I said, MEX should be one of the next destinations of TAM, but certainly not this year or next year.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 20):
I agree that ex-RG routes are likely to be JJ next ones. I believe on a LHR-CPH and CDG-AMS (GRU service) tags. Also, I see possibility for a MAD-BCN tag, combined with the start of GIG-MAD non-stop that would take some pax out of GRU-MAD service

TAM does not like to operate tag flights. They have high operational cost this is why I do not think CPH or AMS will come back.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 20):
Non-stop Europe likely destinations, IMO, would be LIS, FCO and maybe ZHR. I believe a lot on a Asian destination, that could be either PEK or NRT. In NRT's case, could be combined with a new LAX service (GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT). For PEK, I'd bet the stop would be either on MAD or JNB. If in MAD, they could code-share flights with Air China.

I agree with possible future nonstop destinations, including LAX, LIS, ZRH or FCO (or perhaps more MXP frequencies). For Asia, NRT comes first, in the case of PEK currently TAM is codesharing the destination with CA via MAD. This was one of the deals which made CA decide not to come back to GRU.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Congratulations. I'm flying on JJ 8055 (CDG-GIG) on July the first.

I hope I'll fly on their newest 330, the one with mood lighting and IFE with VOD. Their IFE even has cameras (pointing towards the ground and the front of the airplane). It's brillant.

Any chance of some detail on their fleet of A330s ?



Cheers
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4131 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
TAM does not like to operate tag flights. They have high operational cost this is why I do not think CPH or AMS will come back.

If they don't, they don't. But I think this would be the only way for us to see JJ flying to CPH or AMS, considering what you said to me in another threat, O&D numbers for AMS and CPH are very low.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
But as I said, MEX should be one of the next destinations of TAM, but certainly not this year or next year.

Agreed.


On South America, I'd bet they will have in a near future GIG-GRU-CCS non-stop. Also, they may consider GIG-GRU-BOG, SSA-EZE and GIG-SCL.



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4118 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 23):

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
TAM does not like to operate tag flights. They have high operational cost this is why I do not think CPH or AMS will come back.

If they don't, they don't. But I think this would be the only way for us to see JJ flying to CPH or AMS, considering what you said to me in another threat, O&D numbers for AMS and CPH are very low.

with JJ joining Star surely destinations such as AMS and CPH can be handled by codeshares - a tag is likely to operate only two or three times per week , but multiple daily connections could be made using their *A partners eg GRU JJ LHR/FRA/CDG SK CPH or GRU JJ LHR BD AMS etc etc



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 C010T3 : Didn't he say that the O&D traffic on RG was low? I don't recall reading that he considered the O&D market in general to be too small. The problem wi
26 Hardiwv : You are correct, I said RG had low traffic density to AMS because of among other issues low poor frequency, stop-over in CDG, no partner in AMS. The
27 LipeGIG : I took the continuation of this flight CDG-GIG to go to JFK last month. TAM is using the newest A332 on the route, now with First Class service and n
28 Hardiwv : I do not think so. The problem of flight connections in Scandinavian countries is more complex. SAS and Finnair have success in their Asian routes be
29 LipeGIG : You're right about the fact that people still have the choice to fly AF or other airline.
30 C010T3 : That's the beauty of it all. CPH can be a connecting point for Brazil-East Asia. For example, GRU-CPH-ICN would be shorter than through LAX.
31 JJ8080 : This is what Hardi said the other day making me consider O&D numbers low. Sorry if i missunderstood you. Regarding CPH non-stop flight, I think this
32 LipeGIG : That's why i mentioned CPH-GIG sound a great idea. Business, VFR, leisure and connections!
33 Hardiwv : Your forget that you cannot fly to ICN from CPH. ICN is served by Finnair from HEL and is not even daily, and I cannot see in any forseable future FY
34 LJ : I wouldn´t think that JJ management was very conservative at the time. They seriously intended to fly to AMS (as a tag to their CDG flight). Unfortu
35 C010T3 : That's why I said that it "would" rather than "is". Geographically CPH is as good as any other Western European airport when it comes to the Far East
36 Viscount724 : For a fleet of 132 that seems like a very large number of employees. For comparison, following is DOT employee (full time equivalent) per aircraft da
37 Hardiwv : You highlighted an important issue, the importance of cargo market in AMS-Brazil traffic. In fact VarigLog operated cargo flights in the Netherlands;
38 Viscount724 : Correction (too late to edit), the figure for TAM should read 182 employees per aircraft (24,000 divided by 132 aircraft).
39 JJ8080 : I agree with Hardi. Considering all other variables (not only distance, that is not that different) GRU-LAX-ICN seems to be much more interesting tha
40 Hardiwv : Very interesting point. What could account for TAM higher staff per aircraft is the fact that different from US carriers TAM almost does not outsourc
41 Jrosa : It is important to add that TAM does not use outsource services providers for ground handling and also for cleaning the aircraft during turnarounds.
42 Hardiwv : Thanks for this important information, which adds to my information above. The fact TAM does not outsource certainly reflects in better training and
43 LJ : I would certainly hope they do this. However I fear that AF/KL will persuade Gol to have at least one (codeshare) flight to AMS just to prevent JJ en
44 Hardiwv : The bilateral was revised last year and now allows for 14 frequencies plus 3 cargo frequencies. For the airlines designated by the Netherlands, howev
45 LipeGIG : Hardi, if KL need a huge number of connections to fill the plane, and JJ is about to join *A, i don't expect them to begin AMS. The problem with the
46 Hardiwv : You are correct, it also ensures TAM ontime performance and if necessary any maintenance. It was because of cargo considerations, the small leg could
47 LipeGIG : You could be right. But seems to me that CDG already performs very well in terms of cargo. Don't know right now, but in my view, there's no extra car
48 JJ8080 : You mean Gol flying to AMS? We can't even think about this for at least the next 3-4 years, since they don't have, for now, any long-haul operations
49 LipeGIG : Not sure about this. If you arive 13:30 you need at least 1:30 to turn-around a plane (clean, passengers de-board, boarding process, cargo out and in
50 JJ8080 : When I said two hours I was refering to "out of CDG" time, so, surely we have to add some more time. But I don't think we are talking about 6hrs... S
51 LJ : No, under the previous bilateral only one Brazilian and one Dutch airline was allowed to offer scheduled flights ex AMS. This included codeshare flig
52 Aidanoc5793 : Didn't TAM serve ZRH and GVA already in the past? I thought I read that somewhere, but I'm probably wrong. Does it sound stupid to say TAM might take
53 C010T3 : ZRH only. It kind of does. The Ireland-Brazil market is too small to justify a nonstop flight. Perhaps if someday it becomes trendy in Ireland to esc
54 LipeGIG : They need to refueling, clean, change crew, on both stops (CDG, AMS and again CDG). 1h30 for such three stops is not enough in my view.
55 Hardiwv : Your understanding is correct. What are the codeshares destinations of TAM and BMI, possible DUB is included in the list. The other issue to take int
56 JJ8080 : Well, refuel can be done together with cleaning and crew changing, right? They wouldn't need to refuel on the first CDG stop, I think. They would ref
57 LipeGIG : Plus MXP, a new hub with LH Italy
58 Aidanoc5793 : Ah ok thanks a lot, sorry though it was a really stupid question, I mean DUB dosen't even have a link to far eastern asia never mind South America...
59 Hardiwv : Currently the TAM-BMI codeshare cover the following destinations: UK: using JJ codeshare from LHR - Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland, and
60 JJ8080 : I'm surprised BMI doesn't have condeshare for places like POA, BSB, CNF.... Still quite a small amout of options..
61 LipeGIG : It does not surprise me at all that they selected some oil destinations. I was looking to LHR numbers for March 09 and GIG shows a very impressive gr
62 Hardiwv : This is the initial stage of the cooperation between TAM and BMI and the codeshare will be expanded to other destinations in some months. MAN is a de
63 JJ8080 : So considering this good code-share "oil" network JJ has stablished there, a non-stop GIG-LHR seems to be an interesting next step for them.
64 Hardiwv : FRA-GIG would come first. TAM is hitting hard on BA since it started LHR-GIG nonstop, dedicated. TAM is selling business class ticket from LHR to GIG
65 LipeGIG : I believe before JJ venture on GIG-LHR, BA will further increase its service at least to 5x weekly
66 JJ8080 : So considering this, in case they started, 3x weekly GIG-LHR, than they would manage to get higher loads, stopping to sacrificate yields to beat BA.
67 LipeGIG : In the other hand, in a recent report on O GLOBO, BA said that they would not introduce discounted fares to GIG because the flight is performing very
68 IAD380 : Based on the discussions above, I understand why JJ is not likely to start flying to AMS. Why do some of you think that it is more likely that TAM wou
69 LipeGIG : I agree that AMS is not a market for TAM and considering they will become part of *A i believe there's a good chance for ZRH or MUC as future destina
70 C010T3 : I think it's too premature to say. No airline has revealed its plans for BER. It's for sure interesting. Is AB going to retreat from other markets in
71 Hardiwv : I really do not see any chance in Berlin, connectivity is minimum. AMS or CPH have far better chances if this is the case. Berlin almost does not hav
72 JJ8080 : Agree. JJ's next steps in Germany would be GIG-FRA and additinal GRU services (that could be a mix of extra x weekly GRU-FRA + 4x weekly GRU-MUC). As
73 C010T3 : You're talking about BER today, I'm talking about BER tomorrow. BER would be a much more fitting hub Eastern Europe than MUC, but I agree LH isn't li
74 IAD380 : Would this change when the reconstruction of the international airport in Berlin is completed? Berlin is the largest city in central Europe, and it i
75 C010T3 : Traffic between Berlin and Brazil is mainly low-yielding, so even a flight attracts respectable O&D traffic, premium classes wouldn't be filled, sinc
76 Viscount724 : Berlin may be Germany's capital and largest city but it's hardly a major business or industrial center. In fact it has one of the most depressed econ
77 C010T3 : A hub for Germany you mean, since its location is good enough for Eastern Europe.
78 Hardiwv : This is right. Even DUS (which is one of Europe's wealthiest regions) could work better. You have a good point. This is possible, a hub for Eastern E
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