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US Airways Makes Brussels, Milan, Zurich Seasonal  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6754 times:

According to some sources US Airways is turning some of its year-round destinations into seasonal service only.

PHL-MXP and PHL-ZRH last flight effective September 30.
PHL-BRU last flight eff Oct 23.

Can anyone confirm this?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3916 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6474 times:
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Seems likely. There's 0 availability a week out from 10/23 on 750/751. Usually a prelude to the flights being removed altogether.


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6471 times:
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These routes are money losers ? Can someone give us a light on the current US long haul operations ?


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

I know that some like to report that PHL-AMS is a money looser or the poorest performing European route of US, but US always keeps the route as year-around, I am sure this will put an end to this argument since AMS will be kept by US as year-around route. We could at least say for sure that PHL-AMS performs better than MXP, ZRH and BRU.

Rgs,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6440 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
We could at least say for sure that PHL-AMS performs better than MXP, ZRH and BRU.

No, we can't.

Again, you make random conjectures based on frequency and seasonality.

What we can probably say from this, and all we can conclude without knowing facts, is that PHL-AMS performs better in the winter than MXP, ZRH and BRU.



a.
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6399 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
We could at least say for sure that PHL-AMS performs better than MXP, ZRH and BRU.

Hard to believe because Zurich is a strong Star Alliance hub (at least 2/3 of the traffic) and AMS is more Sky Team.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6366 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
What we can probably say from this, and all we can conclude without knowing facts, is that PHL-AMS performs better in the winter than MXP, ZRH and BRU

What I said is that some here (including YOU) stated that PHL-AMS was the poorest performing route of US in Europe. Your new conclusion stated above is completely different, now you are changing your argument again.

And I do agree that we cannot conclude without knowing facts therefore your conclusion that AMS-PHL is the poorest European route of US is baseless and unfounded.

Some really like to make conclusions, such as CLT-GIG will not work, PHL-AMS is a poor route, and this backfires, as we see above. What we know for sure is that PHL-AMS remains a year-around route probably because it performance warrans daily present 12 months a year, and not only seasonally.

Rgs,


User currently offlineSk601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6316 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
some like to report that PHL-AMS is a money looser or the poorest performing European route of US,

If that's true.....so what? Who cares?  Confused I would say the only ones who care are the US shareholders. This discussion turns into some kind of competition of what city in Europe has the best performance. What is the purpose of such a discussion?

An airline will fly a route based on yields. No yield, cease the ops. Simple as that. (there are a few exceptions, of course).


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6222 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):

What I said is that some here (including YOU) stated that PHL-AMS was the poorest performing route of US in Europe. Your new conclusion stated above is completely different, now you are changing your argument again.

No, I'm not changing my argument. I'm just telling you what you can possibly conclude from this. I keep what I say: PHL-AMS is a poor performer for US, has been for a while.



a.
User currently offlinePhilInBRN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2009, 250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6205 times:

US didn't serve ZRH last winter season either. A gate agent at ZRH mentioned that Zurich is one of the most expensive airports for US to fly into in Europe. The year before (07/08) they served it on a 5x weekly basis.
This year however some flights still show on amadeus.net (twice weekly). A buddy of mine booked flights to PHL when US was still planning on serving it daily this winter. When he discovered that no flights were bookable anymore he contacted US office in ZRH and they told him they cut it to two times weekly(??) but nothing had been decided yet.

Now I don't think you can say that ZRH is one of US's underperforming routes to Europe, it just doesn't have enough demand in winter time bearing in mind that not many Swiss business passengers will chose to fly US when you can fly Swiss to the same destinations.

The stop of the MXP service can be blamed partly on the ending of US's codeshare agreement with Air One on certain Italian domestic routes.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6147 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
PHL-AMS is a poor performer for US, has been for a while.

Unless we have the facts I disagree with you. US has managed to carve out an interesting market in AMS especially because AMS has a solid and strong Star Alliance FF base which normally use UA and US to fly to the US instead of LH via FRA. You will be surprised to know that US average fares in AMS are nothing low.

I am not saying AMS is a star performer, but it can survive quite well.

Rgs


User currently onlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5937 times:



Quoting PhilInBRN (Reply 9):
US didn't serve ZRH last winter season either.

IMHO there are three reasons why US seems to be doing not all that great in ZRH:

1.) Less O&D traffic to PHL than to other northeast destinations like BOS, NYC and IAD
2.) Less attractive product than competitors (especially LX and CO)
3.) Oversupply of flight to eastern US (LX: MIA, EWR, JFK, BOS, ORD; CO: EWR; UA: IAD; AA: JFK; DL: ATL; US: PHL) in comparison with only a single flight to the west (LX to LAX) following the end of AAs DFW service.

IMHO it would make more sense for star alliance to initiate a service to an additional western (DEN) or southern (IAH once CO joins) star hub rather than attempting to cover every significant gateway airport in the east.

Given that fact that BA & AF managed to fill 2 flight to IAH per day in the past, I think to star ought to be able to fill an additional flight from another European star hub besides the one from FRA.

Given the fact that some US oil services companies such a Weatherford have recently relocated to Switzerland, we should also increase in O&D traffic on ZRH-IAH in the future.


User currently offlineDj1986 From Luxembourg, joined Apr 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5909 times:



Quoting PhilInBRN (Reply 9):
The stop of the MXP service can be blamed partly on the ending of US's codeshare agreement with Air One on certain Italian domestic routes.

I don't know much about the relationship between US and LH and it seems to me that they are not co-operating as closely as UA and LH. However they still have codeshare agreements and it probably would be a good idea for US to codeshare with Lufthansa Italy on routes from Milano (MXP).



on strike! finally VC!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8395 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Just because somebody serves AMS does not mean it is a money maker. Just because AA serves say, ATL does bit mean they make money there. Yes we can draw some conclusions here but probably not about AMS.

User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5756 times:

Somehwere, long time ago, I heard that as a whole AMS is somewhat a weak market for US airlines. However, there are exceptions.The exception that I heard was that for pax it was a bit of a weak market. However, in many cases the cargo loads were terrific. So maybe the cargo AMS-PHL is quite good and that offsets the possibly weak pax loads off season.

User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5730 times:



Quoting ZRH (Reply 5):
Hard to believe because Zurich is a strong Star Alliance hub (at least 2/3 of the traffic) and AMS is more Sky Team.

I would bet that there's better connection opportunities on LH via FRA or MUC than LX.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5691 times:
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Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 11):
1.) Less O&D traffic to PHL than to other northeast destinations like BOS, NYC and IAD



Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 11):
3.) Oversupply of flight to eastern US (LX: MIA, EWR, JFK, BOS, ORD; CO: EWR; UA: IAD; AA: JFK; DL: ATL; US: PHL) in comparison with only a single flight to the west (LX to LAX) following the end of AAs DFW service

I don't think you can simply look at the gateway cities. What US (or any other US carrier) is offering the Swiss market is access to many many domestic U.S. cities through its PHL hub, just like DL thorugh ATL/JFK, or CO through EWR.
Frankly, IMHO, US's issue with ZRH is simply that it was the last/latest U.S. carrier joiner to the Swiss market, which despite the presence of high-yield traffic, is simply too small for so many U.S. carriers in addition to the hometown carrier (LX), particularly during the off season.

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 11):
IMHO it would make more sense for star alliance to initiate a service to an additional western (DEN) or southern (IAH once CO joins) star hub rather than attempting to cover every significant gateway airport in the east.

Problem is that the majority of Europe-US traffic is headed for the Eastern Seaboard and as shown by not too many nonstops to the West Coast. Even LX is on shaky ground with LAX (it's not the most consistent or best performer for LX). Far better to route a flight to a big Eastern U.S. metro city with lots of connections to interior points. Routing to a central or western city/hub essentially cuts out huge swaths of the U.S. (Eastern Seaboard) that provide the bulk of transatlantic traffic.


User currently offlineTheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5661 times:



Quoting PhilInBRN (Reply 9):
US didn't serve ZRH last winter season either. A gate agent at ZRH mentioned that Zurich is one of the most expensive airports for US to fly into in Europe. The year before (07/08) they served it on a 5x weekly basis.
This year however some flights still show on amadeus.net (twice weekly). A buddy of mine booked flights to PHL when US was still planning on serving it daily this winter. When he discovered that no flights were bookable anymore he contacted US office in ZRH and they told him they cut it to two times weekly(??) but nothing had been decided yet.

Now I don't think you can say that ZRH is one of US's underperforming routes to Europe, it just doesn't have enough demand in winter time bearing in mind that not many Swiss business passengers will chose to fly US when you can fly Swiss to the same destinations.

Switzerland and especially Zurich is an expensive country/city for tourists. And AFAIK, ZRH is not even the most convenient airport for skiers headed for the alps.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5610 times:



Quoting TheGMan (Reply 17):
And AFAIK, ZRH is not even the most convenient airport for skiers headed for the alps.

GVA is right there at the Alps. Great arrival views.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlinePhilInBRN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2009, 250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5481 times:



Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 11):
Given the fact that some US oil services companies such a Weatherford have recently relocated to Switzerland, we should also increase in O&D traffic on ZRH-IAH in the future.

I could see a CO flight on 767-200ER or later 787 equipment from ZRH to IAH doing quite well. As you mentioned, there have been quite a few companies that have relocated to Switzerland and also IAH would provide many good connections to Mexico and Latin America which have been lost from ZRH with AA dropping their DFW service.

Quoting TheGMan (Reply 17):
Switzerland and especially Zurich is an expensive country/city for tourists. And AFAIK, ZRH is not even the most convenient airport for skiers headed for the alps.

ZRH is the best option to fly into for any skiing resorts in the german speaking part of Switzerland (Bernese Mountains, St. Moritz, Davos etc.) but to any other resorts in the french speaking part of Switzerland (Zermatt, Verbier etc.) GVA is definitely the better and more used destination for skiers.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7492 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5440 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 16):
Problem is that the majority of Europe-US traffic is headed for the Eastern Seaboard and as shown by not too many nonstops to the West Coast.

Are you joking? Have you been to LAX? LAX is the second largest market to Europe after NYC. SFO is also high on the list. Both LAX and SFO have tons of flights and service to Europe.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3916 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5423 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
These routes are money losers ?

None of these seasonal routes may be money losers, but it may just be that, at this time of the year, the equipment may be used on more lucrative routes (eg Caribbean/ski destinations) that are also seasonal.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinePhilInBRN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2009, 250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

Speaking of US equipment, does anybody know when the next 330-200s will be put into service?

User currently offlineTheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5316 times:



Quoting PhilInBRN (Reply 22):
Speaking of US equipment, does anybody know when the next 330-200s will be put into service?

Happened already. Today, PHL-SJU-PHL. Should be just about back to PHL now.


User currently offlinePhilInBRN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2009, 250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5295 times:



Quoting TheGMan (Reply 23):
Happened already. Today, PHL-SJU-PHL. Should be just about back to PHL now.

I knew about the first A332 in service already. I was actually referring to the additional ones up for delivery. When are they scheduled to be delivered?


25 MMEPHX : Hardly surprising, comments by many airline CEOs at the Merrill Lynch transport conference today indicated that demand is so poor, especially in the p
26 PHLapproach : I've heard 280 should be going into Pre-Ops by the end of the week. Might be stretched a little into next week (Monday/ Tuesday).
27 Panamair : No, I am not joking. I don't have time to look up the stats right now, but taken in totality, the Eastern half of the U.S. provides a lot more than m
28 Runway23 : It doesn't change much to the fact that the main oil/gas and especially commodities city in Switzerland is Geneva. IAH would only work as an addition
29 Vegas005 : I am booked on the 19th of December and I just checked with US Air .. the flight will operate as scheduled. Flight is full btw.
30 SurfandSnow : This move could very well be indicative of falling demand FROM Europe, as I imagine European passengers are key to making transatlantic flights work i
31 Sxf24 : The "moves" are for tax purposes only. The companies have minimal operations - if any - in Switzerland. All of the executives remain in the U.S.
32 PhilInBRN : Demand has already decreased dramatically for flights from Western Europe to the US. If you want to cross the Atlantic for a very low price you shoul
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