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NYC-Edinburgh Service, Only CO now?  
User currently offlineBACCALA From United States of America, joined May 2009, 133 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

With DL dropping service between New York JFK and Edinburgh, Scotland ( and other cities) will this only leave CO's EWR service as the only nonstop service in the NYC area? I think the EWR-EDI is seasonal so will CO runn it yearly maybe 4-5 times a week after the summer season is over? I see CO has two daily B757-200's on the route right now.

[Edited 2009-06-11 10:44:28]

[Edited 2009-06-11 10:46:43]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBochora From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2008, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

CO operate yearly EDI-EWR flights and they are very successful, operating twice daily on some days.

User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

Its a shame to see DL leave EDI, could they start GLA?


seemyseems
User currently offlineBy738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2318 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

Cant see DL expanding to any new routes at this rate. First the ATL service failed at EDI, now the year round JFK- their experiement in Scotland has obviously failed. Watch DL withdraw completely.

User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

Maybe we will see them at BHX?

User currently offlineNeedmolegroom From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Being selfish about it, ATL-EDI was the perfect option - pity it didn't last too long since apparently it needed a 767. Shame, perfect TATL plane, but seems it was too much plane for the passenger loads. Sadly now the JFK option is going, and although there'll still be CO, of course they're about to leave SkyTeam.

So, back to the old days going through Amsterdam, Brussels or Paris. (Discerning travellers never go via LGW/LHR). A great pity, there's nothing like a direct flight when a red eye is involved.



needmolegroom
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7379 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4112 times:
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Quoting By738 (Reply 3):
now the year round JFK- their experiement in Scotland has obviously failed

Funny how I remember someone saying EDI was a "license to print money"!

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 4):
Maybe we will see them at BHX?

Not too sure if they'll be there short-term. Perhaps 3 to 5 years?


User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3993 times:
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Quoting David_itl (Reply 6):
Funny how I remember someone saying EDI was a "license to print money"!

Well depending on the aircraft and route it is a lucrative airport to service. CO have benefited from high loads on the EWR-EDI flights and fly twice daily frequently through the summer months, once daily off-season. It's very cheap to fly the route right now so not sure what the profit margin is looking like?

Quoting Needmolegroom (Reply 5):
So, back to the old days going through Amsterdam, Brussels or Paris. (Discerning travellers never go via LGW/LHR). A great pity, there's nothing like a direct flight when a red eye is involved.

So you'd rather fly 600 miles the 'wrong way' and have to change planes, just to get FF points? CO is currently charging low fares on this route which I seriously doubt you could been going trough a European hub and probably offsets the benefits of FF.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 7):
So you'd rather fly 600 miles the 'wrong way' and have to change planes, just to get FF points?

I personally would. In fact, I do it often.

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 7):
CO is currently charging low fares on this route which I seriously doubt you could been going trough a European hub and probably offsets the benefits of FF.

You could easily get it going through a European hub. U.S.-Europe fares are at ridiculously cheap, rock-bottom prices right now.

For travel in late July on EWR-EDI right now, KLM is $400 cheaper than CO's non-stop.

[Edited 2009-06-11 16:19:20]


a.
User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3689 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
For travel in late July on EWR-EDI right now, KLM is $400 cheaper than CO's non-stop.

I don't want to get into a price vs convenience argument, but I just checked continental vs KLM and for the equivalent flights of from EDI on 23 June, return on 29 June KLM / AF is actually £2 more expensive and 5 hours (each way) longer. And it's flying on KLMs 767's which IIRC don't even have PTVs.

No contest IMO, point to point wins hands down.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineBochora From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2008, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3668 times:



Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 9):
No contest IMO, point to point wins hands down.

Very true.
I can see little logic in going the wrong direction. I mean I love flying but if I can get somewhere in less time I will do it.


User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3610 times:
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quoing Sandyb123

Quote:
I don't want to get into a price vs convenience argument, but I just checked continental vs KLM and for the equivalent flights of from EDI on 23 June, return on 29 June KLM / AF is actually £2 more expensive and 5 hours (each way) longer. And it's flying on KLMs 767's which IIRC don't even have PTVs.

No contest IMO, point to point wins hands down.

That 767 ex AMS is i believe a Delta NOT KLM plane with NW code NW791 !


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

The UK -- which is the largest TATL market for travelers from North America -- will see the DL/AF/KL Joint Venture as a relative bit player. The oneworld and CO/LH/AC/UA joint ventures will handily outclass them in that market, with superior access to Heathrow and the rest of Britain.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Considering that before 2003 EDI had no non-stop USA flights, having 3 sustainable daily (in summer) flights to NYC alone was always going to be hard. This is obviously a blow for EDI, but on the positive side it will strengthen CO's existing service, which at twice daily must be a relatively strong performer


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineNeedmolegroom From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3431 times:



Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 7):
So you'd rather fly 600 miles the 'wrong way' and have to change planes, just to get FF points? CO is currently charging low fares on this route which I seriously doubt you could been going trough a European hub and probably offsets the benefits of FF.

Well granted if you're staring in NYC - but if your starting point is say ATL (or DFW, LAX etc), then a direct flight to say AMS, gives about the same overall flying time, but there are a number of possible advantages.
Don't think there's any doubt that passing through AMS or BRU is a more pleasant experience than either of the London Airports. The big plus though is avoiding the customs/immigration, grab luggage, bun fight with thousands of others in London. (Same sort of issues apply if you're coming to the US and arriving in NYC.)
Finally, if you've accumulated some SkyTeam miles, you'll shortly have another reason not to go with the CO flight to EDI. That's a pity because their service seems to be amongst the best today.



needmolegroom
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2634 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
which at twice daily must be a relatively strong performer

Indeed, it's the same frequency as MAN during summer, which has a 5 times bigger catchment area.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDamian From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2250 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 15):
which has a 5 times bigger catchment area.

The obvious point is that the "catchment area" for CO's EWR-EDI flight is more than simply the geographical surroundings of EDI ... the catchment includes inbound demand from the US too, and with Edinburgh's status as the UK's second most visited destination it's not hard to see why EDI does almost as well as MAN in terms of being a successful destination for CO.


User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2230 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
The UK -- which is the largest TATL market for travelers from North America -- will see the DL/AF/KL Joint Venture as a relative bit player. The oneworld and CO/LH/AC/UA joint ventures will handily outclass them in that market, with superior access to Heathrow and the rest of Britain.

Could DL be starting more routes from MAN maybe? I sure hope they do!

I think DL could maybe offer more in the UK, LBA, BHX and NCL spring to mind.



seemyseems
User currently offlineBy738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2318 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

3 flights a day on some days was overkill, was never going to last, and as for LBA and NCL... well.....  Smile

User currently offlineDamian From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2144 times:

DL's JFK hub is nowhere near as extensive as CO's EWR hub, with far limited connecting possibilities. Personally I would like to see DL back at EDI with a summer-only service to ATL. The summer loads were always pretty healthy on EDI-ATL.

Though I can't see DL expanding anywhere else in the UK, quite honestly. CO is too strong in the UK regional market.


User currently offlineTravelExec From Spain, joined Dec 2007, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2133 times:



Quoting Needmolegroom (Reply 5):
So, back to the old days going through Amsterdam, Brussels
or Paris. (Discerning travellers never go via LGW/LHR). A great pity, there's nothing like a direct flight when a red eye is involved.

You should try DUB with EI, DL, US, CO & AA to various parts of the States...


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2103 times:



Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 9):
No contest IMO, point to point wins hands down.

Especially with business travelers who fill up the J cabin.

Quoting Damian (Reply 19):
DL's JFK hub is nowhere near as extensive as CO's EWR hub, with far limited connecting possibilities

 checkmark 

CO @ EWR is the only true New York hub operation. AA and DL have been building presence there but to each carrier it is simply more of an international gateway rather than a true hub. CO's advantage with EWR is that they have the O&D feed from the Manhattan and New Jersey market, as well as connecting traffic from the rest of the USA.

*A is looking to be the premier transatlantic alliance with the addition of CO... they will have hubs in IAD, EWR and FRA, and that's not even including the contributions of the smaller carriers such as US, BMI etc.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1931 times:



Quoting Damian (Reply 19):
DL's JFK hub is nowhere near as extensive as CO's EWR hub, with far limited connecting possibilities. Personally I would like to see DL back at EDI with a summer-only service to ATL. The summer loads were always pretty healthy on EDI-ATL.

Though I can't see DL expanding anywhere else in the UK, quite honestly. CO is too strong in the UK regional market.

I think if they had gone with ATL/EDI with the 757 they could have made a real sucess of the route. DL's ATL base is huge and perfect for connecting pax unlike their JFK base.

I worked on the ground in EDI for many years and there is 4 US routes that would have a good chance of being a sucess. They are ORD, BOS and IAH year round and MIA in the summer months.


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