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More US1549 Pax Complain About Compensation  
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

Passengers on US Air 1549 are complaining that they airline's insurer is not paying them enough for their trauma.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/business/12aig.html?hp

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

They're doing a lot of b****ing when they should be saying thank you to US Airways for training their flight and cabin crews so well. US payed them $5000 each. You're just an idiot if your luggage costs more than that. US is not at fault, LGA is not at fault, the only thing at fault is those Canadian Geese. Typically, selfish, Americans...


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Tess Sosa, who was aboard Flight 1549 with her husband, 4-year-old daughter and infant son, said she suffered a mild concussion during the landing, and her husband was treated for a leg injury and hypothermia. The family, from New York, continues to get hospital bills, she said. But her top priority was getting the insurer to pay for therapy to reduce the risk of post-traumatic stress disorder for her and her daughter.

Post traumatic stress disorder, for what? I'm sorry but people seem to think that every thing that happens to them, they need therapy. From what I hear, it could not have been more calm on that aircraft. Yet she was so stressed out. I usually don't say this, but I feel bad for the insurance company and Us airways because people will keep making claims like this.

A.I.G is going through a lot right now, and it is going to take some time to develop the claims and provide compensation to all who were on board. The incident happened on Jan. 15, today is now June 11. 5 months is the time they're giving to an insurance company that is on the rocks. Their payouts will come, they just have to be patient.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Is anyone in the remotest bit surprised by this? This is America land of the lawsuit and opportunity to make a quick buck from someone else. Forget the fact they are alive, survived a miralce and US Airways gave everyone $5K no questions asked. Therapists have a hell of a markerting scam going in this country as half the population seems to have fallen for their quasi medical bunk and willing to fork over big dollars (especially if they think someone else will cough up the cash) and be convinced they have all sorts of "traumas" (rant over)

User currently offlineLuv08 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Typical New Yorkers...LOL! Like someone else said its America and everyone is trying to make a quick easy buck!!!

User currently onlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1242 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 1):
US payed them $5000 each.

Actually I think that was later amended to $10000 a while back.

EDIT: Just reading the article now and see that it still says $5000. Maybe certain individuals were given $10,000 in some instances.

[Edited 2009-06-11 22:08:57]

User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4852 times:

"I'm going to demand compensation from an airline that had no control over the accident, they trained their flight crews and cabin crews to the best extent they could, and the crews handled the situation almost perfectly." This is what those people should be saying. Sure, I'm sure everyone is a little shaken and may have trauma in their lives because of this. But, think of the hundreds of people on 9/11 who missed the flights, weren't in the tower, and weren't in the pentagon that should have been. Should they all receive compensation too?

This is an "act of God" type of accident. Its not the result of bad maintenance or bad training. Why does it seem like the plane crashes have to involve the stupidest and most obnoxious people ever? I think the passenger who tried to open the rear door should be sent to prison for 20 years and fined $250,000 for interfering with the flight crew. In fact, all the passengers should sue her for the drama they experienced. Shes at more fault than US is. So is the person who invented Canadian Geese.  

[Edited 2009-06-11 23:05:12]


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineNws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

I honestly think US has gone above and beyond.

They had the passengers luggage and belonging cleaned and returned to them. All the items may not have been in perfect conditon, but that was a much nicer gesture then simply selling them off or destroying them. After all the passengers were already paid by the insurance company for them.

I would take my $5000, count my blessings, and just be happy I was still alive.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5986 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

Before you all go off the deep end about the pax not being graceful enough to be alive and all, try and read the article first.

The issue is not with US, it's with their insurers AIG who are flat out refusing to cover the costs of the passengers who have lost anything from car keys to wallets to laptops and everything inbetween.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 2):
Post traumatic stress disorder, for what? I'm sorry but people seem to think that every thing that happens to them, they need therapy.

Perhaps if you bothered to quote the paragraphs that followed, it might make sense why they felt the need to see a therapist.

"Because the plane was full on the day of the accident, she and her baby were seated near the wings, while her husband and daughter were far in the rear. The plane struck the water tail-first, and water began pouring in where Mr. Sosa and daughter Sophia were sitting.

Ms. Sosa, clambering over seats toward the front of the plane with her son in her arms, looked back and caught a horrifying glimpse of her husband standing in the deepening water, trying to hold their daughter above the surface. "


User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4500 times:



Quoting CPH-R (Reply 8):

"Because the plane was full on the day of the accident, she and her baby were seated near the wings, while her husband and daughter were far in the rear. The plane struck the water tail-first, and water began pouring in where Mr. Sosa and daughter Sophia were sitting.

Ms. Sosa, clambering over seats toward the front of the plane with her son in her arms, looked back and caught a horrifying glimpse of her husband standing in the deepening water, trying to hold their daughter above the surface. "

This happened because a woman tried to open the R2 door of the A320. Again, all the passengers should sue her, shes at more fault than US is... I'm pretty sure we'll see a lawsuit attacking Airbus for not designing the A320 better for water landings.
 Yeah sure



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 8):
"Because the plane was full on the day of the accident, she and her baby were seated near the wings, while her husband and daughter were far in the rear. The plane struck the water tail-first, and water began pouring in where Mr. Sosa and daughter Sophia were sitting.

Ms. Sosa, clambering over seats toward the front of the plane with her son in her arms, looked back and caught a horrifying glimpse of her husband standing in the deepening water, trying to hold their daughter above the surface. "

That is an absolutely ridiculous claim. I wouldn't be surprised if they sued the airline saying that the pilot should have tried an returned to the airport, instead of landing in water. But of course, this is the U.S.A where suing for money, which does not belong to you, is very welcomed from money hungry lawyers, so had Sulley returned to LGA safely, someone would still try to sue for something.

She and her family will probably never go back on another airplane, but that is her problem, not the airlines. The insurance company should not have to pay for a freak occurence and then pay her bill for a psycholigist. This may seem out of line, but if she can't get over what happened, why should someone else pay for it? They should just get re-imbersed for their material things as well as general hospital bills for a broken leg or hypothermia in a situation like this. If the plane crashed due to negligence from the airline or any other factor, then they are entitled to money for mental suffering.

[Edited 2009-06-12 11:46:30]

[Edited 2009-06-12 11:53:02]


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

What is really ridiculous is that just going to the hospital and getting a couple of tests can easily run over $10,000 depending on what your insurance is.

These claims may not be all that out of line. While the flight crew cannot be praised enough for their outstanding work, there may be a sound basis for saying that medical bills+ lost luggage may be more than 5K and perhaps more than 10K.

Maybe the insurer should have a contingency for people that went to the hospital.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4428 times:



Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 7):
I honestly think US has gone above and beyond.



Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 7):
I would take my $5000, count my blessings, and just be happy I was still alive.

I totally agree! What do those pax really have to complain about? They should be lucky it didn't happen at night or in a worse location.



Bring back Western Airlines!
User currently offlineJbernie From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Given 7 hours overnight in a hospital without being admitted and really only getting a drip for dehydration, no food or drink, an occasional visit from staff and one perscription cost my insurance company about US$2500 in 2003. I would had to see the costs for being admitted for anything more.

The problem with an accident like this is that the "fault" lies with an entity you can't really sue and well it just gets messy from there.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9585 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4371 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 1):
US payed them $5000 each. You're just an idiot if your luggage costs more than that. US is not at fault, LGA is not at fault, the only thing at fault is those Canadian Geese. Typically, selfish, Americans..

Umm, a laptop computer alone can cost half that $5,000. I would not be surprised at all if the costs associated with what someone might have in a briefcase come up to the $5,000 pretty quickly when you add in a few hundred bucks in cash, the cost of replacing keys (a new Mercedes remote key costs $500 to get cut and made), the laptop, the blackberry, the suitcoat, the actual briefcase, etc. Don't forget about all the lost wages associated with being stuck in New York. People on that plane weren't just going on family vacations to Disneyland.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4316 times:



Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
Umm, a laptop computer alone can cost half that $5,000. I would not be surprised at all if the costs associated with what someone might have in a briefcase come up to the $5,000 pretty quickly when you add in a few hundred bucks in cash, the cost of replacing keys (a new Mercedes remote key costs $500 to get cut and made), the laptop, the blackberry, the suitcoat, the actual briefcase, etc. Don't forget about all the lost wages associated with being stuck in New York. People on that plane weren't just going on family vacations to Disneyland.

Then thats there fault if they choose to travel with so much expensive stuff. People should know not to travel with expensive items since lots of bags get lost and things get stolen. As far as work wages go, I'm sure sick leave would cover it.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

I would just take the 5k and send a thank you note to the airline for being thoughtful and for keeping me on this earth for a few more years. These people need to think about the alternative outcome of that accident.

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9585 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4274 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 15):
Then thats there fault if they choose to travel with so much expensive stuff. People should know not to travel with expensive items since lots of bags get lost and things get stolen. As far as work wages go, I'm sure sick leave would cover it.

If you are involved in a different type of accident, lost wages are often included in lawsuits. You shouldn't be forced to use benefits.

I can understand the belief that $5,000 is more than enough to cover checked luggage since airlines warn you not to put expensive items in luggage since it can get lost, but carrying your laptop computer on board is logical. In an evacuation you are told to leave everything behind. That includes briefcases, coats, purses and other items which often have value. Bankers and business people flying out of LGA certainly are not thrifty people.

While I believe Americans are more inclined to sue and expect compensation for damages, an insurance company limiting losses to $5,000 seems a bit low. If it takes a lawsuit to fight the insurer to get reasonable compensation for lost items, then that is the American way and it will happen. The legal system can decide.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4269 times:
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Quoting CPH-R (Reply 8):
The issue is not with US, it's with their insurers AIG who are flat out refusing to cover the costs of the passengers who have lost anything from car keys to wallets to laptops and everything inbetween.



Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
Umm, a laptop computer alone can cost half that $5,000. I would not be surprised at all if the costs associated with what someone might have in a briefcase come up to the $5,000 pretty quickly when you add in a few hundred bucks in cash, the cost of replacing keys (a new Mercedes remote key costs $500 to get cut and made), the laptop, the blackberry, the suitcoat, the actual briefcase, etc. Don't forget about all the lost wages associated with being stuck in New York. People on that plane weren't just going on family vacations to Disneyland.

Come on...who cares about all that more than his own life? Why would anyone fly with a few hundred bucks in cash when there are credit/debit cards all over the place? Sure, the laptop can be expensive - even more than 5K, but is that the most important thing in one's life? Should be dumb enough not to back you drive up every now and then not to lose everything...

Whereas,

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 15):
Then thats there fault if they choose to travel with so much expensive stuff.

you're joking, right? No smart enough individual would put his laptop, blackberry, etc. in his checked bag. Nor would anyone put the suit in the checked bag. Is it their fault they are business people and need all gizmos? Moreover, you don't have to be a business man to fly with your iPhone, laptop etc. Should we just leave them at home just in case we land in the Hudson?



Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 461 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

I live in Orlando. It is infested with "abulance-chasing" lawyers. They are all salivating for a chance to do MCO's first major, fatal airline accident.

These people are bitching about living after US1549.

I think that is crap!


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4132 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 2):
Post traumatic stress disorder, for what?

In defense for some of these pax, some of these folks cannot swim or is terrified of even going into the water.

Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 7):
I would take my $5000, count my blessings, and just be happy I was still alive.

As would I.

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 9):
This happened because a woman tried to open the R2 door of the A320.

This goes to show that most pax do not even pay attention to the safety briefings at all. Lame, if you ask me! Another good example is the recent WN emergency landing in HOU (I think...) with the wheel that caught on fire.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

A person who has a $5,000 laptop is rich enough to buy another 10 of them, so what's the deal there?


Really though, are those laptops and Mercedes keys more important than life? I'm sure the people who died in the Buffalo crash would love the possibility to answer that question.



delta.com
User currently offlineKinglobjaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

The way I see it, and the way I've stated to every person who was question me on the issue- the compensation you are keeping is your life.

Before you look at your own stress and hypothermia look at Air France 447, then look back at your situation and take the keep the compensation you got- your life.

-Kinglobjaw



Kinglobjaw
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3974 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
In defense for some of these pax, some of these folks cannot swim or is terrified of even going into the water.

Well then, next time they should walk to their destination instead of flying. If they crashed their car into a lake, who would they sue for the PSTD, the state for owning the lake?

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 21):
A person who has a $5,000 laptop is rich enough to buy another 10 of them, so what's the deal there?


Really though, are those laptops and Mercedes keys more important than life? I'm sure the people who died in the Buffalo crash would love the possibility to answer that question.

This is so true. Well said  bigthumbsup 



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3912 times:



Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 18):
you're joking, right? No smart enough individual would put his laptop, blackberry, etc. in his checked bag. Nor would anyone put the suit in the checked bag. Is it their fault they are business people and need all gizmos? Moreover, you don't have to be a business man to fly with your iPhone, laptop etc. Should we just leave them at home just in case we land in the Hudson?

Lets see, now I'm a pretty teach savy person.

Laptop $700
Itouch $230
Blackberry $500
Clothes $200
Surviving a landing on the Hudson River because an airline did everything righht, Priceless.

Seriously, how could one person be carrying around more than $5000 worth of stuff? Heres a tip for all of you, don't travel with more than $5000 worth of stuff. Its not US's fault, there not to blame. Maybe FEMA will step in. This is like me saying, oh I'm sorry you tripped and fell down my perfectly lit, and perfectly legal staircase. Heres $5000 for your inconvenience even though its not my fault. You're just a f**king idiot if you carry around more than $5000 worth of stuff.

So say I'm driving along, hit a deer, and total my brand new Lamborghini, and I don't have insurance on it. Is the state suddenly responsible because I was driving on their road? No. These people need to suck it up, be thankful for the well trained F/As and Pilots, and shut the f**k up. Why does it seem like the most obnoxious and annoying pax are always the ones involved in air crashes? There was the guy who took off his clothes and started swimming naked, there was the dude who insisted that "woman and children" leave the aircraft first even if it meant the evacuation was considerably slowed down, and then there was the dumb a** who disregarded the rear F/A's instructions and opened the R2 door. The pax should be suing each other, they had more fault in the accident than the airline did.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
25 AirframeAS : This is the most ignorant and immature statement on this thread, especially coming from a 16 year old! I expected better from you.[Edited 2009-06-13
26 Smcmac32msn : Thank god people here know the value of LIFE. Maybe US1549 passengers should thank their lucky stars they weren't on Colgan 3407 or AF447... Be happy
27 CPH-R : I can't believe some of the answers I'm seeing here. Yes they got away with their lives, but it's bullshit that AIG is using the halo around US Airway
28 Sxmarbury33 : I think you guys are kind of mising the main point of all this. US Airways went above and beyond giving 5k each to the passengers. The issue at point
29 UAL757 : Honestly, if you were in this crash, and you lost everything on board, medical costs, lost time, etc. you would want much more than $5K. Your view wou
30 Sxmarbury33 : You can spin this kind of stuff any way you want. Im sure to someone living at the poverty line they would think it was crazy that you need all that
31 EA CO AS : This part is in dispute - the flight attendant claims a passenger opened the door, yet more than one passenger has said they witnessed a panicked fli
32 Aerdingus : I thought with the recession & people getting kicked out of their homes we have become a more humble race, but no, it appears not. Sure, I wasnt there
33 IliriBDL : And what if these people we're talking about were involved in a war where they lost everything, the house, the belongings, etc. and had to even leave
34 CPH-R : .. but why should they pay for it out of their own pocket, when US Airways have an insurance that is supposed to cover these costs?
35 TheGMan : Thank you Each member of the crew was given $10k as part of an award.
36 Post contains links LoneStarMike : I don't think that's in dispute any longer. Official apologizes to attendant on flight that ditched LoneStarMike
37 AirframeAS : If this is the case, then this should the last thing US and AIG should do for the victims. They did their part....
38 StasisLAX : The passengers of 1549 need to seek legal counsel and sue US' insurer, AIG (American Insurers Greed) for every dollar that their lawyer's can get the
39 AirframeAS : ....the Canadian Geese for the downing of US1549 and bring those geese to justice.
40 TheGMan : That is the flight crew that received this award, not the passengers.
41 Hestaman : I know I'll get flamed for my opinion on this matter - but I really must chime in. US Airways pays an insurer (in this case, AIG) a fee to cover thems
42 RoseFlyer : The unfortunate thing for the passengers is that aviation law requires that negligance is proved in order to require payment to passengers. In most ot
43 MAH4546 : That's an idiotic statement. Just because somebody might be wealthy doesn't mean that they should pay for others' mistakes. Its sad that anybody woul
44 Chinook747 : as been said..."ACT OF GOD!"
45 TVNWZ : It would be interesting to see how everyone posting on this thread would act if it happened to them. This is why they have insurance. And the whole si
46 Bravo1six : I think you're confusing two different types of insurance. Firstly, it's not "aviation law" that requires that negligence be proved, it's the terms a
47 Co757 : Post traumatic stress disorder, for what? I'm sorry but people seem to think that every thing that happens to them, they need therapy. Im a gate agent
48 Ikramerica : Come now. There were people on that plane who's shoes cost more than $200. In fact, I would imagine most people on the plane were wearing clothes, in
49 Jbernie : that could get touchy... did God invent Canadian Geese? Is there really a God? If you have a non religious person on the flight (quite possible)... b
50 FuturePilot16 : Why don't you check again, then you would realize that the age group is 16-20. I'm 19 Years old and I don't see what business is that of yours. Just
51 IliriBDL : Could have said 'not a good statement' but anyways, there are no mistakes, those people were saved from what could have been a tragic accident, and n
52 Cytz_pilot : How many times does it have to mention in this forum thread, and in the article, that their qualms are not with US Airways, but the insurance company
53 IliriBDL : And how many times do I have to say that life > belongings (laptop, jewelry, house, etc) 100 out of 100 times. Plus don't accuse me of not reading th
54 Bravo1six : [ As I posted above, that's not correct when it comes to liability insurance. AIG is well paid in exchange for the obligation to pay the airline for a
55 Cytz_pilot : Of course life is greater than belongings. I was in a ditching myself (you're free to check my trip report on the incident if you like) and I'm very
56 Bravo1six : That's why there's a difference between liability insurance and property insurance. All airlines carry both types by way of a policy between the airl
57 Maddog888 : Quite right, but as previous posters have tried to explain, this would be covered by Travel - or Household if the cover is specified - insurance. Thi
58 Cytz_pilot : Thank you for explaining that. So the compensation amounts for lost articles/baggage in the contract of carriage concerning lost articles would be al
59 EA CO AS : Is that so, Socrates? Apply that same flawed logic to their $25,000 car or $250,000 house and let's see how it flies.
60 AirframeAS : Well, it is pertinent to the thread... and maturity comes into play as well.
61 IliriBDL : Different story there. Now if you'd talk about someone who has a million dollar home, then I'd say they're rich. I have a 20,000 dollar car myself, t
62 EA CO AS : And yet to many people, YOU'RE rich. It's all relative. But to say that someone with a $5K laptop can just afford to go out and buy a new one - or TE
63 Hestaman : Well in the US it's not your job - or anybody else's job to tell somebody else that they are to wealthy and/or own 'toys' that are to expensive. At l
64 IliriBDL : I'm not saying it's my job, and in the same US there is something called 'freedom of speech' so I can pretty much say anything I want.
65 AirframeAS : One flaw with that.... the Mods can delete any thread that they deem to be inappropriate for any reason...
66 TVNWZ : Common misunderstanding: freedom of speech only applies to what you say against the government. You do not have complete freedom of speech to say wha
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