David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7578 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8514 times:
Would this pair be considered "Scottish" flag carriers? Chieftain Airlines with 748s in the 1980s and air écosse with Emb110s? However, Loganair carried "Scotland's airline" on the fuselage of thier aircraft.
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8360 times:
Quoting Manhattanbeach (Reply 8): Or France Paris or Spain Madrid or Germany Frankfurt...blah blah blah
(yes Munich before you fire back)
That's a tired old economically nonsensical dig at BA.
Well, BA's strategy to not operate flights that do not start or end on any of the London airports (and to sell BA Connect) is quite different from other traditional European carriers.
LH for example, not only operates 2 major hubs (FRA, MUC) but has also quite extensive operations from DUS, HAM, TXL and STR, and some point-to-point flights from CGN and NUE.
AF, next to it's 2 major hubs in Paris, operates an international and domestic network of point-to-point flights (mostly through their regional subsidaries) from NTE, LYS, SXB, MRS, NCE, TLS, BOD and CFE.
In Spain, Iberia has of course transferred all it's BCN flights to XG, but so far, it doesn't seem that this venture has brought them too much success. And still, Air Nostrum operates an extensive point-to-point network from secondary airports in Spain, in Iberia's colors.
There are of course many differences between these countries and companies, that cause different business decisions. But the strategy to focus solely on hub-spoke flights (with the exception of the LCY operations) is defenitely not something that happens in all countries.
Directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1745 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8308 times:
I remember that a few of BOAC (and BA?)'s TATL services included a stop at Prestwick.
There have been a few 'Scottish Airways' as several posters have pointed out but the market is so small that it doesn't warrant an independent carrier. The few TATL routes are also served by American carriers, and there's at least one longhaul link (EK to DXB). Scotland is located in a place that makes it unfavourable for pax to transit through. So it makes sense that pax from Scotland change planes at LHR, CDG, or FRA since there is no backtracking involved.
Granted, perhaps had it been the British Civil Aviation Department's policy to develop a distinct Scottish airline from the start, then perhaps we would have a well-sized airline operating a solid European network and a few niche long-haul routes. But it obviously didn't work out that way.
Forgive me but why is BA being dragged into this ?
Like you said there are differences between countries, companies and markets. BA for a start has alot more competition than AF or LH. Look at EK for instance and the amount of services they offer from all over the UK compared to France or Germany. Even at LHR BA has to compete directly with another carrier with significant longhaul operations based there. It's all great for competition and makes the UK market one of the 'most' competetive.
Across the globe surely the main tactic of any airline is to have its longhaul operations based at the largest or financially most important city of whatever nation they serve. This is the best way to provide the widest scope in terms of destinations. You either fly nonstop with that airline from that city or transfer with it or another airline.
Based on competition and market factors in the UK BA's best option is to have its longhaul operations based at Heathrow. That doesn't mean that another airline without those commitments costs etc could have a base in say Glasgow or Edinburgh ??
I could see an airline with a couple of cheeky little 787's doing this.
Babybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8074 times:
I was thinking about Higland Express but that didn't last all that long. And if I recall correctly it had very low loads when it did.
I don't understand it really, I mean EDI and GLA would make fantastic bases for a niche Scottish airline using A318 /A319 aircraft. There must be rules and regs in place preventing it. Or maybe just the threat of BA coming in and swamping the market to oust it.
AirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 2053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7962 times:
Quoting Babybus (Reply 17): I don't understand it really, I mean EDI and GLA would make fantastic bases for a niche Scottish airline using A318 /A319 aircraft. There must be rules and regs in place preventing it. Or maybe just the threat of BA coming in and swamping the market to oust it.
Try U2 and FR all with sizeable networks from Scotland to Europe. If anything it was them that ousted BA from the regions!
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 8028 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7900 times:
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 23): I mean EDI and GLA would make fantastic bases for a niche Scottish airline using A318 /A319 aircraft. There must be rules and regs in place preventing it.
No such rules.
Commercial aviation in the UK (including Scotland) is effectively under the control of the EU. Their regulations allow any airline more than 50 per cent owned by EU nationals and / or investing companies to operate from any airport within the EU to any other airport anywhere within the EU. They also allow any airline to operate beyond EU borders within the restrictions imposed by existing international agreements such as the EU-USA Open Skies, the Anglo-Singapore Open Skies and the Anglo-Indian bilateral agreements.
This is how, for example AF came to operate LHR-LAX last summer. So their is little to stop airlines such as LH or AF/KL setting up a hub at, say, EDI, accept for the likely financial viabilityt of operating such a hub.
: British Caledonian (BCal) was a "Scottish" airline. Many of the original investors were Scottish (including two major Scottish companies) and most of
: And, as usual, when it comes to such you're wrong again because it was nothing of the sort except in your own perception! In your reference to flying
: Those were indeed the days, you could travel from EDI or GLA to Gatwick then on to the US and other locations around the world, all on BCal planes. I
: Wow - doesn't it ? So does that mean that another airline could not start operations ? Which is what I was getting at and why I tried to pre-empt pos
: I know the name is hardly Scottish related, but no-one has mentioned Flyglobespan. Bases at EDI GLA and ABZ. And operating long haul routes from GLA/E
: 29 posts and no one has made mention of Caledonian Wings... V/F
: Six actually, which is two more than in Germany, a much larger country. EK have 14 daily flights to the UK and 7 to Germany. That was his point.
: Surely you can't overlook Air Scotia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Life_%28TV_series%29
: With EK being restricted in how many cities and frequencies they can operate into Germany. but BA had sizable ops in the regions but for reasons best
: Irrelevent. They have a far greater presence in the UK and therefore provide much more in the way of competition to BA than they do to LH.
: My mother applied to be an f/a for Air Ecosse. I reckon the main Scottish airline was most probably BCAL, but why was LGW their main hub?
: In the early 1980s BCal International routes from LGW were: USA ATL DFW IAH STL JFK and LAX were added to the network after the demise of Laker Skytr
: That quote is actually from Babybus, and I was disagreeing with it! If (and it's a big if) Scotland became independant, would there be political impe
: That only operated in 1974 on a 4 weekly basis using 707s and led to LGW-MAN as a domestic service being introduced, You may be thinking of BA7267/72
: Well, well, talk about pure ignorance. I thought as much really. You see, although you just don't seem to get it, this were you are totally incorrect
: My first trip as cabin crew with BA was on an ex BCAL DC-10 to IAH. I sat on the flight deck for take-off. Happy days. Some of the crew (the girls) t
: BCal also served BGI and SJU - Puerto Rico was a destination and not merely a fuel stop. TrinToCan.
: LOL - i'm sorry but I don't quite know how to respond to that.
: I need an aspirin. Where did all that come from ? I've been called some things in my time but 'fanboy' and 'apologist' They're new ones. At the risk
: I strongly doubt it - the days of flag carriers and national airlines are gone. There just isnt enough demand, and most places that are viable are al
: I get your point although i'm beginning to regret starting this. I just thought that with some of the aircraft currently in production it might be a
: There was a "Scottish Airlines" formed in Prestwick in 1946 as a civilian side to "Scottish Aviation" formed in 1935, its last commercial service was
: That be-thistled Donaldson 707 brings back some childhood memories on pier B at Manchester in summer 1973 with packed lunch "egg sandwiches" and a bot
: Reading a book called An Illustrated history of British European Airways by Phil Lo Bao I found the following>> Scottish Airways in 1946 flew the foll
: I explained this in Reply 25. Thanks. I must be getting senile! BCal served LGW-JFK in the days before Laker Skytrain but services were suspended due
: Quite simply - there HAS been a "Scottish Airways" - the original was nationalised into British European Airways shortly after WW2. It's identity was