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AA To Suspend ORD-DME This Winter  
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Just heard from a friend that according to a Russian aviation forum ORD-DME is suspended for the winter. Can anyone confirm? That would mark two US route suspensions out of Moscow, DL having announced ATL-SVO gets the axe this winter.


What now?
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5074 times:

Yes. 30SEP09 through 15APR10. AA will also be suspending Chicago-Rome (as they did last winter) and Fort Lauderdale-Kingston through April.


a.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Great  Yeah sure

Talk about giving up the market to UA.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4914 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):

Talk about giving up the market to UA.

So I take it you are implying UA is doing well with its new DME service?
I suppose that capital-to-capital campaign has indeed done quite well for them.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4894 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 3):
I take it you are implying UA is doing well with its new DME service?

Not especially. I don't work in revenue management but it would be an extreme long shot that the flight is profitable with the load factors they've been having.

That having been said, I was really hoping that AA's ORD-DME would outlast UA's IAD-DME


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6301 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

And yet SQ's IAH-DME-SIN keeps chugging along....mediocre loads, good yields, excellent cargo....


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26022 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
it would be an extreme long shot that the flight is profitable with the load factors they've been having.

What load factors are you looking at? May, the second month of service was basically 80%

Ultimately I see United having a much better shot at Moscow service from IAD then AA at ORD.
With IAD United can manage to collect connections up and down the East Coast in addition to the rest of the country while AA misses the East Coast feed unless people insist or are willing to back track.

[Edited 2009-06-17 15:01:20]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4718 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Ultimately I see United having a much better shot at Moscow service from IAD then AA at ORD.
With IAD United can manage to collect connections up and down the East Coast in addition to the rest of the country while AA misses the East Coast feed unless people insist or are willing to back track.

What most people realize is that this isn't really back tracking as the flight out of ORD (or IAD) heads more north than anything. Looking at the great circle mapper, for example, MIA-ORD-DME is not even 400 miles greater than MIA-IAD-DME.


User currently offlineAzncsa4qf744er From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4692 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Talk about giving up the market to UA.

What's wrong with United service??? Personally, I prefer United over American any day.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
That having been said, I was really hoping that AA's ORD-DME would outlast UA's IAD-DME

Your employer is a major partners with United and you want AA to oulast UA?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4688 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 5):
And yet SQ's IAH-DME-SIN keeps chugging along

At some point I expect that flight to be re-routed. Especially since DME isnt the pull for that flight, SIN is.

Youre right about the yeilds and cargo, but the loads suck on that flight.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4587 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
What load factors are you looking at? May, the second month of service was basically 80%

Premium cabins. It's been rather rare I've seen it go out more than half full up front. To be fair though, I only check on the days I'm working  Wink

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
With IAD United can manage to collect connections up and down the East Coast in addition to the rest of the country while AA misses the East Coast feed unless people insist or are willing to back track.

The difference between connecting in IAD or ORD is very small to the huge Russian and eastern European populations in Florida.

Quoting Azncsa4qf744er (Reply 8):
What's wrong with United service??? Personally, I prefer United over American any day.

And I prefer AA over UA anyday. So it seems we're at an impasse  Wink

Quoting Azncsa4qf744er (Reply 8):
Your employer is a major partners with United and you want AA to oulast UA?

My personal opinions and preferences hardly have to be in parallel with that of my employer.

Further, I am loyal to *my* company - not their partner.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4518 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 10):
Premium cabins. It's been rather rare I've seen it go out more than half full up front.

Well Ill let you know when I fly ORD-DME in J next Tuesday.  Smile

Ive looked at the loads for the flight Im on and theres like 50 people on the entire plane. Pretty bad.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

I'm flying DME-IAD next Sunday (not this upcoming sunday) and we're already booked in Y, but only half full in C. Then again, the fact they're willing to sell a W fare when the flight is Y2 isn't a particularly good sign as far as yields go. I think as a reward for holding out UA and DL will do especially well on their services this winter. We'll see.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4431 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Ive looked at the loads for the flight Im on and theres like 50 people on the entire plane. Pretty bad

Where are you checking??

I won't say the exact figures since that's a bit of a no-no in public, but it's over 70% in Y and over 50% in J.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Well Ill let you know when I fly ORD-DME in J next Tuesday.

Very cool!!  bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 734 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

I am surprised they pulled it for the winter. I was expecting it to go 4x or 5x weekly.

I wonder if AA knew that DL was suspending ATL-DME when they decided to pull ORD-DME?

I also wonder if MIA could have split the route with ORD and taken it for the winter??

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4396 times:



Quoting AJMIA (Reply 14):
I also wonder if MIA could have split the route with ORD and taken it for the winter??

No. It's a big market (I think MIA-MOW has more O&D than CHI-MOW), but it needs to be flown by a Russian carrier with a better cost base.

If any market can be split for the winter with MIA, split MXP.



a.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4331 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 13):
Where are you checking??

Really??? That changed a lot since Sunday night!

Thats good! Last minutes bookings are higher yielding.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4087 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):

If any market can be split for the winter with MIA, split MXP.

Ha! I'm beginning to think we have a better chance at hell freezing over before we see MIA-MXP on AA. This would be a perfect way for AA to dip its toes into this route, and the rumors keep coming that MIA-MXP is coming on line, but nothing materializing.

Also, I agree with you MOW-MIA really needs to be on a Russian carrier.


User currently offlineMavericiceman From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

UA must be making some money off of IAD-DME because they just changed it from 5 day a week flight to a daily flight. UA just finished upgrading their premium cabins on their 767s. Flat seats in first and business class and better in-flight entertainment. It's pretty nice.

User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3558 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
With IAD United can manage to collect connections up and down the East Coast in addition to the rest of the country while AA misses the East Coast feed unless people insist or are willing to back track.

Let's also not forget DL at JFK (and do they have ATL service as well?). They are also at an advantage as they can feed into SU's SVO hub through Skyteam.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 5):
And yet SQ's IAH-DME-SIN keeps chugging along

At some point I expect that flight to be re-routed. Especially since DME isnt the pull for that flight, SIN is.

I've heard quite the contrary, that more of the load winds up stopping in DME than it does continuing to SIN.

Moscow is a tough market to break from the US.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3504 times:



Quoting Cba (Reply 19):
Let's also not forget DL at JFK (and do they have ATL service as well?).

yes sept its seasonal this year



yep.
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3426 times:



Quoting Cba (Reply 19):
I've heard quite the contrary, that more of the load winds up stopping in DME than it does continuing to SIN.

Looks like that is wrong.

Per IAH's website you can see the stats
http://www.fly2houston.com/newsTraffic

Click on April and it seems SQ had 17 flights with 1516 deplaned from SIN and 1369 enplaned to SIN with only 653 deplaned from DME and 541 enplaned to DME (page 11 shows the stats)

Air Freight was 499,827 lbs deplaned and 470,382 lbs enplaned for SIN
with 23,847 ilbs deplaned and 0 enplaned for DME (pg 17)



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3362 times:



Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 21):

Exactly.

I think SQ could be a success at IAH, but they really need to re-route that flight. I bet the flight would preform better with a more direct connecting point to SIN (maybe PVG or Japan).



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

For what it's worth, the load on today's (18JUN) UA IAD-DME is in the single digits in business class.

User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3246 times:



Quoting Cba (Reply 19):
Let's also not forget DL at JFK (and do they have ATL service as well?).

Delta does have ATL-SVO flight but will discontinue it as well (at least for the winter 2009-10) in September.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

Which is kind of a scary sign; if you consider just a couple of years back ATL-SVO was one of DL's strongest trans-atlantic routes, stronger than Kennedy. (It was on a thread on this forum, I can try to dig it up..)

-A



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