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OAG Changes 6/19/09: AA/DL/NW/US  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7183 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10096 times:

These changes are versus the schedule filed last week for the same effective period. Changes may not hit GDS till Monday.

AA
ORD-SVO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09; Seasonal?
ORD-FCO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09, Seasonal?
STL-BOS 3 to 1, eff. 11/09
STL-ORD 10 to 9, eff. 11/09
STL-DFW 9 to 8, eff. 11/09
STL-LAS CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 11/09
STL-LAX 4 to 3, eff. 11/09
STL-SAN CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 11/09
STL-SEA 2 to 1, eff. 11/09

DL
LGA-JAX XFER 4 to 0, eff. 9/09; Transferred to NW last week

NW
BOS-PBI CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 8/09; Presumed transferred back to DL next week
BOS-TPA CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 8/09; Presumed transferred back to DL next week
DTW-PDX CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 9/09
HLN-MSP NEW 0 to 1, eff. 8/09; I think this reverses a prior move

US
PHL-BRU CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 10/09, now seasonal
PHL-MXP CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 10/09, now seasonal
PHL-ZRH CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 10/09, now seasonal

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10004 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-SVO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09; Seasonal?
ORD-FCO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09, Seasonal?

FCO's been seasonal for some time with AA, not sure what's up with SVO. MAH4546 can answer that effectively.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 9877 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-SVO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09;

I thought AA's service was to DME. Has there been an airport switch?



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 9798 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 2):

I thought AA's service was to DME. Has there been an airport switch?

No, its a typo. AA only flies to DME. When the flight resumes it will also be to DME.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 1):

FCO's been seasonal for some time with AA, not sure what's up with SVO. MAH4546 can answer that effectively.

Both DME and FCO are seasonal. They will come back in the spring.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7183 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 9800 times:



Quoting Contrails (Reply 2):

I thought AA's service was to DME. Has there been an airport switch?

You are right it should be DME. I wasn't thinking when I was typing.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 9754 times:

Why doesn't AA just finally admit that STL is a bastard child of a "hub" and get rid of it all together instead of this slowly cutting and torturing crap they've been doing since the TWA merger?

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 9711 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 5):
Why doesn't AA just finally admit that STL is a bastard child of a "hub" and get rid of it all together instead of this slowly cutting and torturing crap they've been doing since the TWA merger?

If they do that, they'll be publicly accused of abandoning STL and the TWA employees (even though we all know that's exactly what they've done).



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5431 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 9683 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
AA
ORD-SVO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09; Seasonal?
ORD-FCO CXLD 1rt to 0, eff. 10/09, Seasonal?
STL-BOS 3 to 1, eff. 11/09
STL-ORD 10 to 9, eff. 11/09
STL-DFW 9 to 8, eff. 11/09
STL-LAS CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 11/09
STL-LAX 4 to 3, eff. 11/09
STL-SAN CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 11/09
STL-SEA 2 to 1, eff. 11/09

No biggie but I believe most of these domestic reductions actually happen on 11/19. And the SEA-STL reduction is essentially seasonal...

Also, as discussed on other threads, SJC-AUS and SJC-SAN are gone as of 8/25 and a couple of other routes between the Bay area and the LA-area are being trimmed in frequency.

bb


User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9602 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
PHL-ZRH CXLD 1 to 0, eff. 10/09, now seasonal

ZRH was seasonal last year as well, not sure why it would show again.


They need to make it year round, especially being that it's a Star Alliance hub.



delta.com
User currently offlineExpressjet_erj From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9568 times:

There was an article in a DFW area paper stating 8 mainline and 30+ AAC or Eagle flights are going to be coming. Is the connection and Eagle flights not in yet? That article mentioned Eagle parking all but 10 of their E135 fleet.


ETOPS...Engines Turn Or People Swim
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9557 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
HLN-MSP NEW 0 to 1, eff. 8/09; I think this reverses a prior move

Again,
This route is subsidized by the Federal Bank in Minneapolis IIRC...



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineSkedguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9450 times:
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Quoting Expressjet_erj (Reply 9):
There was an article in a DFW area paper stating 8 mainline and 30+ AAC or Eagle flights are going to be coming. Is the connection and Eagle flights not in yet? That article mentioned Eagle parking all but 10 of their E135 fleet.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you talking about the 8 mainline cuts in STL? STL will see 8 mainline flight cuts and 10 Eagle flight cuts, for a total of 18 flight cuts total.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9449 times:

As discussed on other threads, AA is also ending (although maybe not reflected on OAG yet):

SJC-SAN
STL-CID
STL-PHL
STL-CLT
STL-TUL
STL-SGF

Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 8):
ZRH was seasonal last year as well, not sure why it would show again.



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 1):
FCO's been seasonal for some time with AA

Both US' ZRH and AA' ORD-FCO did not operate last winter, but both were intended to operate year-round and both were supposed to operate this winter. ORD-FCO on AA has been on/off seasonal. It did operate winter 2007.



a.
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9381 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):

No biggie but I believe most of these domestic reductions actually happen on 11/19.

I read that as November of 2009, Not November 9th.

Such a shame to see all the STL cuts but, whatever, I stopped caring now.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9324 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
As discussed on other threads, AA is also ending (although maybe not reflected on OAG yet):

SJC-SAN
STL-CID
STL-PHL
STL-CLT
STL-TUL
STL-SGF

Again...why are they even in STL anymore? I'm shocked they still serve OKC from STL.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9304 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 14):
I'm shocked they still serve OKC from STL.

Political. It was originally cancelled in Nov of 2003, but Political stuff bought it back, otherwise it would have ceased to exist due to WN flying it also.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinePDXBJV From Turkey, joined Apr 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9297 times:

I thought it just came out the NW made the DTW-PDX route year round?? What happened to that?


TK787 PDX-BJV direct????
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2076 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9291 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
If they do that, they'll be publicly accused of abandoning STL and the TWA employees (even though we all know that's exactly what they've done).

Mostly true.

There are still some valuable routes to the major cities and some on the coasts.

But it looks especially bad considering what the airport administration has done for them.
-Appeasing AA's desire for a nicer C concourse and devoting almost all expenditures in that direction
-Consulting AA before any new carriers come in. There's some secondhand speculation that they may have had something to do with Jet Blue's phantom entrance back in the summer of '06.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9252 times:



Quoting LambertMan (Reply 17):
-Consulting AA before any new carriers come in. There's some secondhand speculation that they may have had something to do with Jet Blue's phantom entrance back in the summer of '06.

I don't doubt that. If B6 had managed to move in back then, STL probably would've been a sizable midwest hub for them.


User currently offlineStl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9186 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 18):
I don't doubt that. If B6 had managed to move in back then, STL probably would've been a sizable midwest hub for them.

What's stopping them now.....I'm sure the airport authority would bend over backwards to bring them in now considering how AA is scaling back significantly. I can understand the airport authority consulting with AA on their every need back in 2006, when they actually had a sizeable opperation somewhere around 220 flights a day. Now with them having only 83 flights come this fall, I would think they would do all they can to get new and existing carriers to expand their operations.


User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9173 times:



Quoting LambertMan (Reply 17):
-Consulting AA before any new carriers come in. There's some secondhand speculation that they may have had something to do with Jet Blue's phantom entrance back in the summer of '06.

Interesting you should bring up JetBlue, Dave Barger was in the Lou about 2 months ago to speak at SLU. He was interviewed on KMOX that morning. Of course the question of St Louis and JetBlue came up and his answer was something along the lines of we've been studying STL now for some time, been in contact with multiple officials, any success B6 would achieve in STL would be directly contingent on the support of the STL business community. Very non-committal but interesting. I said earlier, the tipping point may be here with the next round of cuts. As for AA, it's been predicted on this board many times which routes would be left.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5431 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8922 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 13):
I read that as November of 2009, Not November 9th

Thanks '777, my bad. (I should know that by now...)

I didn't want to start a separate thread for this, and I did a search but didn't find anything more recent than last November, but I just noticed on AA.com that PDX-ORD is not showing as returning anytime this summer. If it's been discussed, I somehow missed it. (As of late last year, the route was supposedly suspended for April thru June of this year.) Is everyone else already aware of this?

So that means AA flies one route out of PDX now, right? Wow, AA seems to be pulling back from the west coast quite dramatically these days...

bb


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2076 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8854 times:



Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 19):
What's stopping them now.....I'm sure the airport authority would bend over backwards to bring them in now considering how AA is scaling back significantly

A lot is stopping them right now. Fuel continues to rise and passenger demand continues to slump in a domestic market that has too much capacity. In essence you aren't receiving enough return on your money to even think about covering your bet.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 18):
I don't doubt that. If B6 had managed to move in back then, STL probably would've been a sizable midwest hub for them.

Sizable is perhaps on overstatement, but there was something that went wrong in the negotiations. My lone aviation contact in St. Louis speculated that American had a say so in the negotiations, much as they gave TW when they were in charge (he was a VP in Route planning). To his knowledge (this convo was over a year ago), they still let American & Southwest have a lot of say so in what goes on around St. Louis.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8838 times:



Quoting LambertMan (Reply 22):
they still let American & Southwest have a lot of say so in what goes on around St. Louis.

Surprised WN let FL come in then versus B6. Neither would be a threat originally, (B6-JFK) and (FL-ATL)

Now FL is building up MKE, so started STL and had been serving STL-MCO, a WN route which sees 4 daily.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8835 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 18):
If B6 had managed to move in back then, STL probably would've been a sizable midwest hub for them.

Why exactly would JetBlue have found greater success in STL than they have in PIT, BNA, or CMH? They would be unable to offer service to Chicago, STL's largest market, without dropping service from ORD to other cities -- not to mention that WN is the market leader between STL and Chicago. STL-JFK would struggle since LGA is the preferred airport for business travelers. They don't serve STL's #2 destination -- DAL/DFW. STL's #4 market, MCO, is crowded with WN, AA, and FL all offering non-stop service. Adding service to L.A. (STL's #5 market) would mean competing with both AA and WN, not to mention dropping flights to other destinations from LGB, since LAX only started yesterday.

JetBlue doesn't serve DTW (#6) or ATL (#9), and the other three markets in the top ten from STL (DEN, LAS, PHX) all have other LCC's as the market leader (F9 to DEN; WN to the other two).

There are reasons why other airlines aren't jumping at the chance to establish a hub/focus city/whatever at STL. WN offers non-stop service in 17 of STL's top 25 markets, and they typically control pricing in their markets due to their low costs. AA is in the markets WN doesn't offer non-stop, and these markets are all dominated either by AA or the hub carrier at the other end (i.e. DL to ATL or NW to MSP). Average fares on STL-Chicago, for example, are already lower than what B6 charges between JFK and ROC (a similar stage length) -- so it would be difficult to take market share by lowering prices.


25 MaverickM11 : They're starting CLTHNL with this plane time, among other things.
26 Panam330 : Seriously?! I must have missed this! Very, very cool.
27 CIDFlyer : yikes that 3 cities that CID is losing (DL is cutting CVG and ATL) and now AA cutting STL. Doesn't surprise me anymore, STL is slowly dwindling away
28 FURUREFA : Not surprised at all. I tend to fly this route when connecting (I like going through STL for upgrades), and I know the loads up front and in the back
29 San747 : Really? Didn't expect to see that! What equipment? I assume a 762, right?
30 Burnsie28 : Here is more for Delta: JFK-BOM 0 to 1 eff 10/25 Following are Seasonal Cuts ATL-ARN 1 to 0 eff 8/23 ATL-PRG 1 to 0 eff 9/26 ATL-SVO 1 to 0 eff 9/29 J
31 San747 : Will this mean the return of the 777 on ATL-JFK runs?
32 PVD757 : DL is cutting 1 of the 3 PVD-CVG flights in early SEP. BDL-MCO goes back to DL M88's as well.
33 Deltaguy767 : So any word on if BDL-PBI goes goes back to a morning departure and out of the crappy 3PM time slot? Also what is the reasoning for switching to NW v
34 USPIT10L : PITJFK does very well. PITBOS does not. Unfortunately, for those of us who like connecting in uncongested airports, those days may be coming to a per
35 Enilria : Again, I compare the future last week to this week. That means it was selling year-round until this week. Whether that truly represented hope that it
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : DTW-PDX hasn't been year-round, it had generally operated May-Dec in the past.
37 Cubsrule : FWIW, they'll also take a significant yield hit. The old schedule was pretty good for business travelers. Now, I imagine US/UA will get most of the b
38 Atrude777 : Barely a month into the service and already labeled bad? I thought it takes months if not almost a year to truly engage how well performance does? Ex
39 Enilria : AirTran puts things on a short leash, however. It is Summer. Routes usually do well in Summer in terms of volume no matter what. Apparently not in th
40 SANFan : These days, a new flight/route has to prove itself profitable very quickly; especially as fuel prices continue climbing, most cx are watching EVERY f
41 FLYjoe : In addition to seasonal CLT-HNL, there are a couple of additional flight changes. A couple have been discussed on other threads. CLT-STL, new mainline
42 Burnsie28 : It was supposed to go to year round service until Delta took over.
43 OzarkD9S : AA just needs get off the pot with STL. Keep ORD, DFW, LAX, MIA, DCA & LGA and step aside. This 5 year drama of watching AA slowly amputate the "hub"
44 PVD757 : SEP BDL schedule: A319: TPA-BDL 0700-0945 BDL-PBI 1030-1321 PBI-BDL 1405-1654 BDL-TPA 1745-2038 ATL and MCO are all M88. CVG is 2X CRJ + 2X ER4.
45 Post contains links Stl1326 : According to the St. Louis Business Journal RSW will return this fall but as weekend only service. Can anyone confirm this? Here is a link to the arti
46 Atrude777 : Wow, TPA to be cut too?! WN must be cheering big time here. Alex
47 Stl1326 : Im sure they are... WN opens their schedule to January 15, 2010 on Tuesday. Maybe they will add more flights to STL with the new schedule....one can
48 Steex : It's interesting that Fagan says one flight will be cut to Boston. I wonder if this is an incorrect statement on her part or if it means AA is indeed
49 OzarkD9S : They'll just book 'em through ORD.
50 MAH4546 : TPA was already cut.
51 SANFan : To help carry all those nerds connecting from SJC to AUS that can't fly n/s on AA after 8/25. Is there enough time for WN to react to the latest AA-m
52 CIDFlyer : TPA and RSW were already cut from STL....why were they mentioned in the article? All in all sad to see AA slice some more out of STL. Now that they ar
53 ERJ170 : Looking at some changes at RDU.. Sep 16, 2009 DL RDU-DTW goes from 4x (2x 319, 2x D95) to 5x (4x D95, 1x CRJ) DL RDU-SCL goes from 1x 738 to 1x 73G DL
54 DeltaCTO : SCL - Santiago, Chile ??
55 DeltaL1011man : think he means SLC if not.....that is ooonnnneeeeee long 737 trip
56 MAH4546 : Delta will also end RDU-DCA and CLE-SLC this fall.
57 Greenair727 : I thought DL just put SLC-CLE back? After CO dropped, it DL is the only carrier on the route.
58 Panam330 : Pretty soon CLE won't be a SkyTeam hub, meaning that lots of the feed on CLE's end will disappear - making it an even thinner route, which more than
59 Cubsrule : The fact that AA is keeping STL-MKE suggests to me that they anticipate FL will cut it. It's pretty clear that they aren't fighting many battles in S
60 Steex : I tend to agree, I don't think AA believes FL is willing to wait it out. On the other hand, if WN decides to include flights to STL (continuing to Te
61 Enilria : It may just be that by default when "attacked" they don't throw in the towel.
62 MasseyBrown : I believe this is a twice a week frequency reduction, not a flight discontinuation.
63 LambertMan : I'm not certain what FL's intentions are with this route. Lose Money stands out the most. Kidding aside, perhaps they're seeing a strong demand out o
64 Cubsrule : Last summer, the route saw something like 78 PDEW; AA got about 2/3 of that traffic (probably not all on the n/s flights; I'd guess they had about 40
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