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Near Miss With Military And Civilian Acft  
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 968 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

On the same day the AF A330 was lost a Canadian Sky Service aircraft departing from Turkey had to take dramatic action to avoid a collision with a Turkish military aircraft.

The pilot was reported as saying over the aircraft intercom that if he hadn't taken the dramatic action nobody onboard would be around to talk about it.

The link below is from the Canadian press.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Close...e+Turkish+coast/1707022/story.html


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 968 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

From the article...

On the same day an Air France jet plunged into the Atlantic Ocean near Brazil, killing all 228 people on board, a Canadian airliner flying from Turkey to Northern Ireland was forced to make a dramatic dodge over the Mediterranean Sea to avoid a midair collision with a military aircraft.

The June 1 near-miss aboard the Skyservice Airlines flight - a vacation charter serving Britain's Thomson Holidays - left more than 160 Belfast-bound passengers shaken from an experience that one compared to a "plummeting roller-coaster."

Another described how the incident left "grown men crying" and that "everybody thought they were dead."

But as Turkish and Canadian authorities investigate what's called, in aviation jargon, a "proximity event," the drastic action taken by Toronto-based Skyservice's two Canadian pilots is being hailed as heroic.

The close encounter, which received no attention in Canada in the aftermath of the Air France tragedy, occurred shortly after the Airbus A320 took off from Dalaman Airport in southwestern Turkey.

The Canadian jet, in the midst of its climb to cruising altitude when confronted by an approaching aircraft, quickly veered down and sideways out of its path.

"Our crew did exactly what a good crew should do, the way these guys are trained," Skyservice CEO Rob Giguere told Canwest News Service yesterday.

"They were vigilant, they observed an aircraft that could have been a conflict, they made an avoiding manoeuvre to ensure that they had clearance and separation - they did a good job. It was a good outcome to a situation that could have been very serious."

Passengers - who were momentarily terrified but emerged unhurt from the ordeal - were more effusive in their praise for the pilots, who aren't being identified by Skyservice due to privacy reasons.

"The pilot was absolutely fantastic, a hero in my mind," one of the passengers told the Belfast Telegraph. "As the panic sort of went down and the plane was going back up, the pilot came onto the intercom. He said he was sorry and he was sure our hearts were in our mouths.

"Then he came back and said it was a Turkish military plane and said, 'Had I not taken the dramatic action we have just taken, we wouldn't be here talking about it.' "



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12065 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Good job. I wish the GOL pilots over the Amazon a few years ago had been looking out the windows, too. We would not have had that tragedy. See and avoid is still the last defense against a mid air collision.

User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4231 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Good job. I wish the GOL pilots over the Amazon a few years ago had been looking out the windows, too. We would not have had that tragedy. See and avoid is still the last defense against a mid air collision.

Maybe, but TCAS needs to become part of the MEL worldwide for IFR flight.


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3981 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
See and avoid is still the last defense against a mid air collision.

True, but see and avoid may not always help if two aircraft are closing in on each other from exact opposite directions and at very high speeds.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1953 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3939 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Good job. I wish the GOL pilots over the Amazon a few years ago had been looking out the windows, too. We would not have had that tragedy. See and avoid is still the last defense against a mid air collision.

See and avoid is a valid technique at low altitudes / low speeds , specially when there are some density in the air traffic ( close to airports, Class B airspace, etc ) with slow general aviation crafts included. In that circumstances you have time to change your heading/pitch and avoid the collision.
At cruise, like in the GOL case, with the aircraft coming into each other at a combined speed of about 2.000 km/h ( around 1.6 Mach ), you have fractions of a second between the moment you see the little point in front of you and the impact. At those speeds, even the TCAS can be ineffective if the crew doesn't take a correct action following the TCAS ( The tragedy of Konstance Lake / Überlingen is a sad example ).

Saludos.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 968 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

Considering the recent Turkish Airlines crash in AMS and this close call in Turkey is a danger with Turkish aviation developing?


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3724 times:



Quoting BillReid (Reply 6):
Considering the recent Turkish Airlines crash in AMS and this close call in Turkey is a danger with Turkish aviation developing?

Based on exactly what??? Except for pot-stirring, absolute nonsense!!


User currently offlineDaBuzzard From Canada, joined Sep 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3634 times:



Quoting BillReid (Reply 6):
Considering the recent Turkish Airlines crash in AMS and this close call in Turkey is a danger with Turkish aviation developing?

I see no connection between a Turkish military flight and any Turkish airline......maybe I need it pointed out to me?


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7348 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3560 times:



Quoting BillReid (Reply 6):
Considering the recent Turkish Airlines crash in AMS and this close call in Turkey is a danger with Turkish aviation developing?

I would be greatly surprised if most nations with extensive commercial, military and possibly private aircraft has not had more incidents than two in the last six months.


User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 968 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3520 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 7):
Based on exactly what??? Except for pot-stirring, absolute nonsense!!

Based upon regulatory issues. I question training and control. The first aircraft crashed inexcusably. The near mis was because someone didn't do their job and an aircraft wasn't where it was supposed to be.

1. Culturally, the Turk government blamed SPL for the crash with no evidence.
Does the macho mentality shrug off this flight error as well?

2. The EU has banned several Turkish airlines from flying to the EU for SEVERE SAFETY LAPSES, what does this tell us?

Do we need another crash to identify a problem on how a country handles its aviation industry?



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineNCB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3495 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 3):
Maybe, but TCAS needs to become part of the MEL worldwide for IFR flight.

ACAS is required for any aircraft over 5.7 tons MTOW or 19 pax seats by ICAO.
No or U/S Tcas? No go on any MEL.

The GOL had a working TCAS but the Embraer's Xpdr was off or not working.


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