Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
EL AL Warned By Yemen  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

EL AL have been warned by the Yemen Govt. that any of their aircraft that strayed into Yemeni airspace would be intercepted, LY have denied that they have ever entered the countrys airspace and as a precatuionary measure will fly closer to Eritrea to avoid a conflict, Israel is also negotiating with Ethiopia to use their air space Smile



.....up there with the best!
134 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6235 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

Dont get me wrong , I understand the problems that Israel has with alot of the middle eastern countries but I consider that people onboard of an EL AL planes have nothing to do with the conflict . Neither do the El Al planes . More govt. should take the position of those like the govt of Jordan and Egypt wanting peace instead of conflict. Hope that with this posts I dont cause a revolt or some sort of conflict .
Chepos
Puerto Rico



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineTca256 From Belgium, joined Dec 1999, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

first of all, LY is allowed to fly over ethiopian territory
as they have scheduled flights to Addis Ababa where
the ethiopian jews fly a lot..secundo, yemen can complain about some "intrusion" about El Al aircrafts
but they should better consider these are civilian
aircrafts..peaceful aircrafts...by the way, how would
you expect the yemenite to intercept an aircraft ???
do they even have a single aircraft ? Go El Al..Go...even
if I hate your timeless needed security checks  Big grin


User currently offlineET767fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 31 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1364 times:

TCA, i dont believe EL AL has a service agreement with Ethiopia. I know for fact Ethiopian serves Tel Aviv three times per week.

Ciao



caution: wake turbulance!
User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1345 times:

I hope that this does not lead to the Korena Air Shoot down back in 83. If this happens then World War 3 will break out due to some hot headed country that shot down a 747 and killing hundreds of innocent civilains. There have been more than enough men, women and children from all sides that have already been killed to start up a foreign country.


"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1329 times:

I meant to type Korean Air


"FUIMUS"
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6541 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1320 times:

Shame on Yemen.
By telling such words they put even more years to the date when they can expect to be considered an ordinary, regular and orderly country.
That way of thinking can only remind us of the darkest part of the Middle Age.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineBigD From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

To be honest, the Yemeni's are really in no position to be delivering credible threats to the Israeli's or to anyone for that matter!

BigD


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1257 times:

As of 1998 the Yemen Air Force had the following as far as fighters go (I don't know what has changed since then):

14x F-5B/E
4x MiG-15UTI
44x MiG-17F
29x MiG-21
22x MiG-23BN
57x Su-22BKL/M-2/U

Although this could be a match for an airliner, it definately isn't for Israel's flighters (F-4, F-15, F-16, Kfir)



User currently offlineDETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

Just curious which countries ban Israeli overflights?

User currently offlineWpr8e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

Eliben, don't be so ignorant. I wouldn't call Yemen a rouge nation. I would also like your definition of "civilized countries." Do you mean non Muslim countries? How about non third world countries. Since when do we fault an entire nation for the senseless acts of a few terrorists. You certainly would want me to associate you with Tim McVeigh or some hillbilly redneck just b/c you live in the States. Although with statements like yours, you probably are.

Whether right or wrong, the Yemani's can do whatever the want with their own airspace. Just like Russia can turn back Delta, just like China can open up new air cooridors to Asia, just like American carriers cannot fly over Iraq or Afganistan. Its no big deal but it is their right to refuse EL AL to fly over their airspace.



User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1227 times:

It was reported that Yemen was planning to buy some Su-27's from Russia (new or used) a year or more ago, anyone knows if the deal went through?
Anyways, LY, or any other carrier, should not invade into the airspace of a country that doesn't allow them to fly there.
In the past Israeli Air Force fighters used to escort every LY flight in that area (North Eastern Africa and the Red Sea), are the Yemenian warnings serious enough to restore those tactics?
BTW, the IAF doesn't operate the Kfir anymore, but it is yet to get rid of it's A-4's.

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

Bad memories of KAL 007 are coming to mind with this announcement. One also recalls the Iran Air A300 which was shot down by the Americans over The Gulf. This is 2001 so let us all hope that no new acts of war take place in this volatile area.

Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1186 times:

Trintocan; You are rught about that. If this happens then World War 3 is just around the corner for Isreal and other countries and many more will be caught in the mess trying to keep the peace. EL-AL does have missle chaffs and other security devices aboard their planes but they can only do so much when one of their 747s is confronted be a fleet of Yemanesee fighter jets. Eveantually their luck will run out.

EL-AL should take this warning seroiusly for the sake of their pax and crew. I'd hate to hear on MSNBC that an EL-AL 747-400 was hot down with over 400 people on board.



"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

Airmale...do you have a source for this info at all? Was it from the Yemeni press? Israeli? Pakistani? I am just interested to read the actual wording of the "warning".

The Yemeni Government obviously feels that El Al has encroached on Yemeni airspace in the past. What the Yemeni's are doing is totally legal under international law...i.e. they are able to intercept the aircraft. They are not threatening to shoot the aircraft down...only intercept it.

The Israelis on the other hand........

"At 10:30 a.m. on 21 February 1973, Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114 took off on its regularly-scheduled flight from Tripoli to Cairo.
    
The plane, a Boeing 727, was being piloted by a French crew under a contractual arrangement between Air France and the Libyan national airline. After a brief stop at the city of Benghazi in eastern Libya, Flight 114 continued en route to Cairo with 113 persons on board.
    
As the airliner flew over northern Egypt on its approach to Cairo, it suddenly encountered a blinding sandstorm which forced the crew to switch to instrument control because the geographic features which ordinarily served as landmarks could not be discerned in the swirling tempest. A short time later, the pilot discovered that he had made a navigational error because of a compass malfunction: the plane had missed an air traffic beacon, and he could not ascertain its current location. He radioed the Cairo air control tower with an
urgent plea for assistance. The Egyptian flight controllers radioed back, giving him the information necessary to correct the plane's course and warning that it appeared that the plane might have strayed over the Sinai peninsula, which
at that time was occupied by Israeli forces.
    
The pilot immediately corrected the course, and LN 114 was heading back
to Cairo when the crew noticed two military jets approaching. The crew members expressed relief, for they believed that the jets were Egyptian fighters sent to escort their plane to safety at the Cairo airport. Such, however, proved
not to be the case: the two jets were in fact Israeli Phantoms, and, before the pilot
of LN 114 had been able to make out the "Star of David" markings on their wings,
they had directed three bursts of cannon fire into the Boeing 727, blasting it from the sky.
    
Flight 114 smashed into the Sinai desert only one minute's flying time from Egyptian-controlled territory, killing 106 men, women and children aboard.
    
At first, Israel attempted to deny its culpability for the tragedy. However, after 24 February when the Boeing's "black box" which had recorded the pilot's conversations with the Cairo control tower was recovered, such denial was no longer possible. The Israeli government then did a volte-face and revealed that LN 114 had been shot down with the personal authorization of Dado Elazar, the Israeli Chief of Staff. Commenting on the decision to blow up the civilian airliner, Golda Meir, then Prime Minister of Israel, showered Elazar with praise, and exulted, "I want to tell you that I don't just appreciate you, I admire you!"
    
The United Nations failed to take any action against Israel for its destruction
of the Libyan passenger plane, and when the 30 member nations of the International Civil Aviation Organization voted to censure Israel for the attack, the U.S. abstained.


User currently offlineOE-LDA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1178 times:

The shoot-down of the Libyan plan is a tradegy, and the reaction of the Israely officials is as well. But there is no difference which country shoots down a civilian airliner, it's always a crime. It makes no difference if it's Russia, the USA, Israel or -possibly-Yemen. The fact that Israel shot down that 727 in 1973 does not justify any attack or aggression against an ElAl plane 28 years later.

Regards from Austria to Australia!

OE-LDA


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1156 times:

Scott the news is from airlinersonline.com Smile


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1150 times:

That Libyan plane flew over something very very sensitive in the Israeli desert.......(um what could it be?)

very sad and unfortunate.

Hope Yemen does not act as hastily as Israel did some 20 years ago.

rgds
russ


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1143 times:

And another one......

Date: 27.07.1955
Type: Lockheed L- 149 Constellation
Operator: El Al
Registration: 4X-AKC
C/n: 1968
Year built: 1945
Crew: 7 fatalities / 7 on board
Passengers: 51 fatalities / 51 on board
Total: 58 fatalities / 58 on board
Location: Petrich; N of (Bulgaria)
Phase: Cruise
Nature: Scheduled Passenger
Flight: Wien-Schwechat APT - Tel Aviv (Flightnumber 402/26)

The Constellation had taken off from Vienna at 02.53h for a flight to Tel Aviv. After the aircraft crossed the Yugoslav/Bulgarian border at FL180 it was attacked by 2 Bulgarian fighter aircraft. The plane descended until it broke up at 2000ft, crashing in flames. The Constellation had strayed off course because of an incorrect radio compass indication due to the effects of thunderstorm activity in the area. Believing to be over the Skopje beacon, the crew changed the heading to 142deg. At 40mls east off airways Amber 10, the aircraft entered Bulgarian airspace and was intercepted by the Bulgarian fighters. PROBABLE CAUSE: "The aircraft sustained a hit or hits which caused loss of pressurization and a fire in the heater compartment. The aircraft broke up in mid-air due to explosion caused by bullets hitting the right wing and probably the left wing together with a projectile or projectiles of large calibre in the rear end of the fuselage."

Follow-up / safety actions::
It was recommended that more VOR stations be used on airway Amber 10, instead of just one at the time of the accident.


Source: ICAO Accident Digest Circular 50-AN/45 (146-159)