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How Much Will AA Cut On The West Coast?  
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

As a west coaster and an AA fan, I’ve become painfully aware of the obvious and fairly rapid cutback of AA’s presence here. In particular, I refer to PDX, OAK, SJC, and SAN. (I am not familiar enough with schedules at other west coast stations, especially Eagle’s, so input from those of you who are is most welcome.)

ORD service has disappeared from many stations in the west completely and has been decreased from many (all?) of the rest. (I know there’s a thread about whether or not AA is in the process of abandoning ORD altogether….)

In summary, here’s the status of these 4 AA stations (as of the end of this year):

SAN still has ORD, DFW, JFK, LAX, (BOS?) Lost STL, SJC (& BOS?) >most routes lost
[BOS status is unkn at this time but it is "expected/rumored" by some to be cut soon.]
SJC still has ORD, DFW, LAX, SNA. Lost AUS & SAN >hub/focus status gone
PDX still has DFW. Lost ORD >half of routes lost
OAK has nothing. Lost DFW >station shut down completely

I’m not aware of LAX, SFO or SEA losing any routes completely but there have been some (seasonal?) reductions announced; I think SNA, SMF, BUR and ONT maintain their status quo as well. As I said, I’m just not sure about any Eagle-only stations.

I realize with the economy, rising fuel prices, and the consumer-decrease in flying, all cx are cutting back. I have read (and posted on) the thread about AA cutting capacity by 7.5%. Maybe these 4 cities are just suffering more from these effects than the rest, and I know that AA is not cutting routes just to be nasty to certain stations. So perhaps these west coast cuts by AA are nothing extraordinary, nothing more than is happening to any other area in the country, but I see a disturbing trend. What do you think?

bb

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7773 times:



Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
ORD service has disappeared from many stations in the west completely and has been decreased from many (all?) of the rest. (I know there’s a thread about whether or not AA is in the process of abandoning ORD altogether….)

Can you tell me which stations have lost ORD service recently, Im not talking about SMF and ONT which havent been flown in years.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7702 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
Can you tell me which stations have lost ORD service recently, Im not talking about SMF and ONT which havent been flown in years

In addition to PDX, maybe OAK had service a few years ago? How many years has it been since SMF, ONT, etc. had service? Appreciate the input on that.

Here's a comparison of ORD-service on several routes:
city..... # flts 2/2006.. # flts 6/2009
SEA....7....................4
PDX....2....................0
SFO....6....................5
SJC.....3....................2
SNA....4....................3
LAX.....10..................9
SAN....5....................4

(Notice that's winter of '06 compared to this summer; I don't have a summer '06 sked handy.)

bb


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7639 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
In addition to PDX, maybe OAK had service a few years ago? How many years has it been since SMF, ONT, etc. had service? Appreciate the input on that.

OAK and ONT have never had service. SMF had seasonal service for one summer back in '03 or '04. LGB had service around '03-'04; PSP also still has service seasonally.



a.
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7580 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
OAK and ONT have never had service

I seem to remember OAK-ORD 727 service back in the mid 80's, tho I don't recall when it was dropped. IIRC, the summer of 85 the red-eye was routed OAK-ORD-ATL with 727 equipment.


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7500 times:

Both OAK and ONT had nonstop service to ORD for many years. Looking through my timetables I found OAK-ORD (4 flights per day) to be operating in the 15June90 AA timetable. I also found ONT-ORD (1 flight per day) tp be operating in the 2April95 AA timetable.
Cheers


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25754 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7422 times:

For better of worse, AA's West Coast footprint has become primarily a nucleus around LAX.

The larger cities like SFO/SJC, SEA have all seen significant cuts over the years.
(Anyone remember the SEA-NRT MD-11 flight in the 90s?)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7394 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
(Anyone remember the SEA-NRT MD-11 flight in the 90s?)

Lasted for a very long time until January 2002.



a.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7372 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
SMF had seasonal service for one summer back in '03 or '04.

I'm confused. SMF has four flights daily from SMF to DFW all MD-80. Did I miss something?

Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
SAN still has ORD, DFW, JFK, LAX, (BOS?) Lost STL, SJC (& BOS?) >most routes lost

American hasn't cut back service to SAN all that much. They still run 9 flights per day SAN-DFW including three 757s and 4 flights per day SAN-ORD with MD80/738. This is a small decrease from a year ago, but that is happening across the board.

Their schedules for October still show one flight per day for SAN-STL. There have never been many flights on this route anyway. Flights SAN-LAX are 15 per day. AFAIK, this is at most a small cutback.

The SAN-JFK flight shifts back and forth between a 757 and 767 depending on the time of year. This flight should be safe as it connects with AA to Europe. AA has been flying this route for decades. I remember when it was a 707. SAN-BOS has always been a thin route. In the past, AA has run it with a 738. I am not sure why they do not do so now.

The only loss of any significance is the SAN-SJC route which AA flew with Embraers against saturation service by Southwest. I am surprised the route has lasted as long as it has.

I don't see SAN being cut back any more than the rest of AA's routes. SAN is a metro area of 3 million with a vibrant tourist industry. It is not a marginal station in any way.


User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7312 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):

I am curious if the PDX-ORD route on AA is a route that will not see a comeback? I am still wondering if AS might start up a link between PDX-ORD. After all, the only linkage between the two cities is UA.


Food for thought....

CGKins317  Smile



I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7188 times:

When it comes down to it, AA really isn't a major West Coast player. With its token presence in the Pacific Northwest and ever dwindling intra-California ops (those RJ flights being cut now were all mainline not too long ago), AA is hardly even comparable to AS, WN, and UA. All three of those carriers have SEA, SAN, and everything in between very well served. In fact, you could even say that AS and UA have everything from YVR all the way to SJD well taken care of  Silly

YVR - with the Olympics around the corner, those DFW flights sure aren't going anywhere. In fact, now that AC has quit JFK, I wonder if AA could resume JFK-YVR, seeing as how Cathay Pacific is the only carrier flying that route these days...Meanwhile UA has ORD-YVR extremely well covered, I don't ever see that happening, especially after AA handed ORD-YYC over to UA...

SEA - A number of interesting experiments (NRT, AUS, etc.) over the years. Certainly an important station with some unique opportunities for AA. I wonder if there will ever be a need for AA to operate its own SEA-MIA service to better connect with its vast Latin American network?

PDX - We may be more likely to see AS pick up the ORD-PDX run than AA at this point  Yeah sure

SMF - Only a few DFW flights here, I'd be surprised to see any adds or drops here

OAK - All five of the big network airlines have either drastically reduced their flights here or closed this station entirely. I suppose OAK folks might as well sit tight until DAL opens up in 2014; then they will have their flight to Dallas back  Wink

SFO - AA seems to be holding up against B6, VX, and UA P.S. on the transcon runs, but who knows how things are really going.. At least AA is the only airline flying to MIA (for now). I'd say this city might have the most to lose (that lone HNL flight, for instance) seeing as how it isn't even referred to as a focus city.

SJC - I don't see how AA could really cut any more, but I'm sure AA can find a way if it wants to...

FAT - AA has somehow operated MD-80s here (to DFW) for a long while whilst its competitors have operated RJs. Always wondered why that was the case, though with US upgrading its PHX-FAT service, there must be more to this city than meets the eye.

SBA - American Eagle cut its daily CRJ-700 flights to DFW, but still serves the airport from LAX. I wonder how that flight did, and if it might ever make a comeback.

BUR - UA and US have downgraded to all RJs. This little airport is quite popular though, I bet AA is winning over pax by keeping the big jets there.

ONT - I bet the loss of B6 and others has actually helped AA here

LGB - B6 won this battle and now AA couldn't even restart flights if it wanted to..

LAX - AA remains a major player here, with flights to all of the city's principal markets such as Boston, NYC, Washington, Toronto, Chicago, Miami - the only airline flying this key route, DFW, SF, Hawaii, Cabo, London, Tokyo, and Sydney (through QF codeshare). Maybe Orlando or Newark will go, but major cuts would be surprising, to say the least.

SNA - slots are just too valuable to give up

PSP - flights to DFW and ORD seem quite popular, and probably profitable too.

SAN - this market seems quite profitable for AA, but BOS could be tough to sustain against B6.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7147 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):

Lasted for a very long time until January 2002

Too much competion, UA AND NW.

Maybe SEA will back.. along with BOS



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 901 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7130 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 10):
SFO - AA seems to be holding up against B6, VX, and UA P.S. on the transcon runs, but who knows how things are really going.. At least AA is the only airline flying to MIA (for now). I'd say this city might have the most to lose (that lone HNL flight, for instance) seeing as how it isn't even referred to as a focus city.

I wouldn't be surprised to see SFO-HNL dropped. I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25754 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Other California cities that have lost AA service have been BFL which had both DFW flights, and AE Saabs to LAX. Additionaly SBP had LAX service till last winter when Saabs were removed from the fleet.

Also one should note that besides LGB, AA dropped a bunch of JFK transcons to SNA, SJC, OAK, ONT(announced but not launched) and SEA which shadowed JetBlue.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7105 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 8):
I'm confused. SMF has four flights daily from SMF to DFW all MD-80. Did I miss something?

I think they were specifically talking about service to ORD (you had the read the previous few posts to put that quote in context). SMF has little more than token service from AA, with only flights to DFW.


User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6984 times:

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse every time I say something like this, but here goes anyways-if AA would bite the bullet and buy some E-190s, then suddenly they can do a lot of interesting things out west, especially from Chicago/O'Hare and St. Louis. With 190s, I think ORD-PDX/SMF/YVR/YYC look much better, as would STL-SAN/SJC/LAS and maybe PDX and SLC. From DFW you might see SBA and BFL get a once or twice daily service a la FAT and possibly the return of OAK.

User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

When did AA finally cease PDX-ORD? They kept changing the plans for that route. I lost track of when (or if) it was finally discontinued.

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6493 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6723 times:



Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
ORD service has disappeared from many stations in the west completely

By your own tallying, service to ORD has only disappeared fom one station, that being PDX.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6684 times:
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SEA is losing one of the STL flights.

OAK once had AE service to LAX and 757 service to JFK briefly. OAK-ORD had 727 and MD-80 service, but was shut down sometime in the early 1990's. Also, way back then, AA moved from T-1 to T-2 when they took over OC. They had quite the network from OAK to most of the OC routes, the typical DFW and ORD and some AE flights to BUR and RNO with Convair 580's and SBA and SBP with Metros. Ah...those were the days.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
(Anyone remember the SEA-NRT MD-11 flight in the 90s?)

The SEA-NRT service was switched over to 777 service before it was cut, along with the old QQ routes to RNO and SJC.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
I wouldn't be surprised to see SFO-HNL dropped. I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has.

The SFO-HNL flights have been around forever. They had DC-10-10 service there for as long as I remember.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6600 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 10):
FAT - AA has somehow operated MD-80s here (to DFW) for a long while whilst its competitors have operated RJs. Always wondered why that was the case, though with US upgrading its PHX-FAT service, there must be more to this city than meets the eye.

AA sees load factors on FAT-DFW that can reach 95% in peak periods like summer. MX sees similiar numbers. US has continued to upguage equipment at FAT over the last few years. Skywest's maintenance/crew base at FAT may be one reason that UA/DL still use RJs and props at Fresno.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineChrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2133 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6411 times:



Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 9):
I am curious if the PDX-ORD route on AA is a route that will not see a comeback? I am still wondering if AS might start up a link between PDX-ORD. After all, the only linkage between the two cities is UA.

WN runs 2x daily PDX-MDW.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5994 times:

SANFan,

Part of the ORD reductions were due to the FAA imposing a limit on arrivals, because of the delays, particulary during bad weather. Now that ORD has a 3rd east-west runway, the restrictions are gone, but no one at ORD, exlcuding B6, has increased service back to levels prior to the cap being imposed.

AA has made the decision to funnel east-west traffic through DFW, while ORD is a hub for the upper Midwest and O&D Chicago. Until the economy picks up, don't expect a lot of expansion at ORD.


User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5798 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 10):
SFO - AA seems to be holding up against B6, VX, and UA P.S. on the transcon runs, but who knows how things are really going.. At least AA is the only airline flying to MIA (for now). I'd say this city might have the most to lose (that lone HNL flight, for instance) seeing as how it isn't even referred to as a focus city.

AA is the second largest carrier at SFO in terms of passengers and has a loyal Oneworld following in the Bay Area (including myself  Wink) AA connects their flights with the One World Pacific carriers at SFO. The HNL flight does quite well. Even if it is filled with award travelers. AA is SFO's Bay Area airport.



John@SFO
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

I appreciate the feedback on this thread.

I want to clarify the thought behind my OP. Many apparently think my main point was the decrease in ORD-service to the west coast. In fact, my point is the overall decrease in flying by AA to the far west.

O'Hare reductions are certainly a part of the concern and I realize that has been going on for a long time, and not just to the west coast; PDX is simply the most recent station to lose service to ORD. (As I mentioned earlier, I know there are other threads about AA and ORD and I'm not trying to repeat all of that here.)

I was mainly trying to point out that in 4 mainline stations on the west coast, 7 routes have been completely cut in less than a year -- including BOS-SAN if that indeed ends, as well as the entire operation at OAK. In addition, other routes to most west coast stations have lost capacity and frequency. Some of these reductions are temporary while others are probably permanent.

It seems to me that these cuts are significant but apparently many of you don't think so.
And that's fine. In any case, it's a good discussion and it's nice to see lots of people (including some newbies) participating. Any further debate is welcome.

bb


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5707 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 8):
SAN-BOS has always been a thin route. In the past, AA has run it with a 738. I am not sure why they do not do so now.

I suspect it's because of AA's fleet rationalization. In the same vein that they pulled MD-80s from MIA and 737s from ORD, they also pulled the 738 from BOS. So now the smallest plane that can do transcon from BOS is the 757.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
25 MAH4546 : 738 returns to BOS-LAX 19NOV09.
26 LH423 : Yes, I saw that about 5 mins after I posted. Then I guess there's no reason AA couldn't put a 737 on BOS-SAN. But I suspect they'll just can it for g
27 Panam330 : Since when did AA cut JFK-SEA? Last time I checked it was a daily 757.
28 SANFan : Just a couple of thoughts about the oft-discussed SAN-BOS route. DOT stat's for 4Q08 -- that's Oct-Nov-Dec) show 648 daily O&D pax flew between the 2
29 MAH4546 : To gauge sales for the winter. AA loads seasonal flights as year-round all the time, and so do plenty of other airlines. It is an excellent way to to
30 MarcoPoloWorld : Yeah, really. And their transpacific coverage is a joke.
31 MAH4546 : Oh please. It's not a huge network, but it is not "a joke." They are the third largest U.S. airline to Asia and have a pretty good network out of Tok
32 Eghansen : In general, all transcon routes from San Diego are thin. We tend to compare ourselves to Los Angeles and San Francisco, both of which have much large
33 LAXintl : Suppose depends how you want to measure things, but in practical terms that title in my mind really goes to Continental with Air Mike. Personally I f
34 SANFan : I would suspect there is also some military traffic; the Navy has a bit of a presence in Mass and ajoining states... I have no doubt we will have n/s
35 MAH4546 : BOS-SAN has been removed. Ends 19NOV09, but MIA-PHX, another west coast route, resumes.
36 STT757 : As per my April 3rd, 1994 AA timetable ORD-ONT is 3 daily with MD-80s. ORD-PSP is twice daily, ORD-PDX is 4 daily (3 daily nonstop plus one via SEA).
37 Modesto2 : I still remember often using AA between LAX and OAK back in 2000 and 2001 with their old QQ routes. Also, I remember flying OAK to JFK on AA 757 in De
38 SANFan : Perfect. So just to updated the list from my OP: "SAN still has ORD, DFW, JFK, LAX. Lost STL, SJC & BOS) >most routes lost." Sure looks to me like AA
39 MAH4546 : And AA is cutting some East Coast routes, does that make it an "East Coast drawback?" Absolutely not. AA cuts were routes under-perform. AA is also a
40 Bobnwa : Yes, but not on flights to ORD as originally claimed.
41 WA707atMSP : American was the first transcontinental airline to serve PSP (they began service there in 1967 - Bonanza and Western already served PSP on flights to
42 DFWEagle : Don’t worry, SANFan. As it stands, the BOS-SAN route is suspended again for the winter only. It is planned to return on 6th April 2010. Also, SAN h
43 Brilondon : I wonder if they would be looking to reducing the number 757 of flights from HNL and add 767 service with fewer flights.
44 SANFan : Thank you for the optimism, 'Eagle! I was aware of these facts. However, as we've learned on this thread, flights appearing on future schedules doesn
45 MAH4546 : FWIW, I have been told nothing past 31JAN10 is set in stone as AA continues to tinker in the schedules. The fact that many equipment changes after thi
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