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AA's High Season JFK-GIG Returning?  
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4033 times:

It was published today, June 20th, on Ancelmo Gois' column on O Globo newspaper from Rio de Janeiro that AA is relaunching the high season JFK-GIG nonstop flight in December. Is there any truth on that?

Sorry, there's no link, since it's only available on the printed version.

[Edited 2009-06-19 23:05:27]

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3939 times:
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The results on the last year seasonal service were good, so i believe even with the crise, AA will give a try to introduce again the JFK-GIG with a 3 weekly service.
I flew it twice and if they return with the flight, will fly at least another 2 times this season.
Could be a good alternative, instead of flying MIA-GIG 12x weekly, to fly MIA-GIG 10x and JFK-GIG 3x/4x

Waiting for the confirmation.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3778 times:

Currently AA has no plans on resuming JFK-GIG. They will also downgrade JFK-GRU-GIG to a 763, but MIA-GRU will have 23 weekly 772s. The MIA-GRU schedule will be modified, with three daily redeye flights operating all winter, and the daylight service will only operate on weekends.


a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3663 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They will also downgrade JFK-GRU-GIG to a 763

This is something i got very surprised and only make sense if they are looking to split the route.

[Edited 2009-06-21 18:47:06]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3617 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Currently AA has no plans on resuming JFK-GIG. They will also downgrade JFK-GRU-GIG to a 763, but MIA-GRU will have 23 weekly 772s. The MIA-GRU schedule will be modified, with three daily redeye flights operating all winter, and the daylight service will only operate on weekends.

This also surprises me... Is MIA-GRU currently doing better than JFK-GRU to justify this changes?? I fly AA on GRU-JFK at least 3/4 times a year and flights are always with good loads, mainly on C and F. With B763s operating the route, thew will offer less C and no F...



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3564 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Currently AA has no plans on resuming JFK-GIG. They will also downgrade JFK-GRU-GIG to a 763


JFK-GRU-GIG will be downgraded from B777 to B767.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 4):
This also surprises me...

I am not surprised. JFK-GRU dedicated nonstop already has operations by DL, JAL, and TAM, plus CO EWR-GRU. There is plenty of competition, schedule and capacity on GRU-JFK. Of course, GIG will be the main affected market since AA decided not to reintroduce the seasonal GIG-JFK nonstop.

Surely by deciding to downgrade the route it seems something is not working for AA. Remember that JFK-EZE will be upgraded from B767 to B777! It is important to note that TAM, DL and now AA decided to downgrade capacity on JFK-GRU, or "the route of the financial market"...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
but MIA-GRU will have 23 weekly 772s. The MIA-GRU schedule will be modified, with three daily redeye flights operating all winter, and the daylight service will only operate on weekends.

This means JFK-GRU-GIG downgrade will be partially compensated by MIA-GRU schedule improvements operating 3 daily red-eye B772s. This seems a lot of capacity for this route.

As a side note MIA-SSA will be downgraded from B767 to B757.

Rgs,

[Edited 2009-06-22 00:58:38]

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3526 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
JFK-GRU-GIG will be downgraded from B777 to B767.

You just repeated what he already said.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
As a side note MIA-SSA will be downgraded from B767 to B757.

Will be? MIA-SSA-REC-MIA is already a 757. It has been downgraded already.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3499 times:



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 6):
MIA-SSA-REC-MIA is already a 757. It has been downgraded already.

I think it was supposed to operate with B767 but then was downgraed to B757.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 6):
You just repeated what he already said.

It has been said that JFK-GRU-GIG would be split but I then confirmed the information that AA apparently decided not only to keep GRU-GIG tag but also downgrade the route from B777 to B767, although as mentioned AA MIA-GRU will have a schedule boost.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3497 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 4):
This also surprises me... Is MIA-GRU currently doing better than JFK-GRU to justify this changes?? I fly AA on GRU-JFK at least 3/4 times a year and flights are always with good loads, mainly on C and F. With B763s operating the route, thew will offer less C and no F

This is just crazy. AA will lose a lot of loyal customers to TAM which will continue to offer F on JFK-GRU and will introduce F on JFK-GIG by the end of September.
Just don't make any sense to not offer F on JFK-GRU-GIG, do not offer F to GIG and concentrate 6 frames on GRU-MIA to give free upgrades. There's no expectation AA could fill even 16 daily F to MIA from GRU, what to think about 64F on weekends !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3450 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
AA will lose a lot of loyal customers to TAM which will continue to offer F on JFK-GRU and will introduce F on JFK-GIG by the end of September.

This is an important issue, AA B767 does not have F cabin. It seems only TAM and JAL will capture the F yields of this route.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
TAM which will continue to offer F on JFK-GRU and will introduce F on JFK-GIG by the end of September.

And remember that TAM serves JFK-GRU market with more than daily flights. I am sure TAM is very happy with this retreat of AA in JFK.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3436 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
This is an important issue, AA B767 does not have F cabin. It seems only TAM and JAL will capture the F yields of this route.

And once they lose their loyalty F customers, they wouldn't recover so easy which reduces the ability to see the 772 back to JFK-GRU-GIG.
I was thinking and this downgrade could mean that AA lost cargo contracts to a competitor.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
And remember that TAM serves JFK-GRU market with more than daily flights. I am sure TAM is very happy with this retreat of AA in JFK.

Yes, and may be is the opportunity DL is waiting for, they can introduce the B764 with flat beds to compete with AA on a better condition as AA 763 does not offer PTV.
TAM also will got the loyalty of Y customers that like PTVs, not so much, but enough to improve their loads and results.
I really don't understand AA decision!



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3429 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):

This is just crazy. AA will lose a lot of loyal customers to TAM which will continue to offer F on JFK-GRU and will introduce F on JFK-GIG by the end of September.
Just don't make any sense to not offer F on JFK-GRU-GIG, do not offer F to GIG and concentrate 6 frames on GRU-MIA to give free upgrades. There's no expectation AA could fill even 16 daily F to MIA from GRU, what to think about 64F on weekends !

Agree... 64F on weekends for GRU-MIA is something...... F passengers won't change from non-stop GRU-JFK to GRU-MIA-JFK, they will instead change AA in favor of JL and JJ... This carriers say thanks....

With AA dropping capacity in JFK, maybe JJ will reconsider their decision to downgrade their day-light services...?



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3423 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 11):
With AA dropping capacity in JFK, maybe JJ will reconsider their decision to downgrade their day-light services...?

I don't think so. What can happen is TAM to keep the F and the A332 even after the end of the maintenance on 763 fleet.
The daylight wont replace the overnight. What could happen is TAM F become more busy, which is good for them.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3348 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
I don't think so. What can happen is TAM to keep the F and the A332 even after the end of the maintenance on 763 fleet.
The daylight wont replace the overnight. What could happen is TAM F become more busy, which is good for them.

I was refering to GRU-JFK, that will have they daily daylight service downgraded to 4x weekly... In my assumption, they would continue to offer 2x daily, one red-eye, on daylight.. On GIG, keeping the A332 would be smart, offering more premium, F, and also would free the 763 which, IMO, should be GRU-MCO plane....



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3346 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
on a better condition as AA 763 does not offer PTV.

Are you referring to the C cabin? Because AA's 763s do indeed have PTVs with AVOD and Bose cancelling headsets in C.

AA has obviously seen a significant drop in paid F traffic to Brazil from NYC to warrant this downgrade for now. I don't see why people don't understand this.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3323 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Are you referring to the C cabin? Because AA's 763s do indeed have PTVs with AVOD and Bose cancelling headsets in C.

I'm mentioning about Y. I know C has AVOD (even being " installed " during the flight)

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
AA has obviously seen a significant drop in paid F traffic to Brazil from NYC to warrant this downgrade for now. I don't see why people don't understand this.

OK, but doesn't make sense to increase F offer thru other gateway to Brazil.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 13):
I was refering to GRU-JFK, that will have they daily daylight service downgraded to 4x weekly... In my assumption, they would continue to offer 2x daily, one red-eye, on daylight.. On GIG, keeping the A332 would be smart, offering more premium, F, and also would free the 763 which, IMO, should be GRU-MCO plane...

The fact AA downgraded the route doesn't mean a better environment for the daylight flight.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3317 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
AA has obviously seen a significant drop in paid F traffic to Brazil from NYC to warrant this downgrade for now. I don't see why people don't understand this.


OK, but doesn't make sense to increase F offer thru other gateway to Brazil.

AA is not increasing F anywhere. AA will continue to offer four daily 772 redeye flights between the U.S. and Sao Paulo, just like last year.

By offering three of them via Miami, they are able to capture a much larger market of feed, then just relying on the O&D-heavy New York market.

In a weak market to Brazil - and New York-Brazil with too much competition, too much capacity and too much frequency is the weakest of them all right now - AA is simply trying to expand cachetment area.



a.
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3254 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
The fact AA downgraded the route doesn't mean a better environment for the daylight flight.

Correct, so they could maybe offer 11x weekly red-eye + 3x daylight..

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
AA will continue to offer four daily 772 redeye flights between the U.S. and Sao Paulo, just like last year.

No, they will have 3x 772 (MIA) and 1x 763 (JFK).... Correct?



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3253 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
AA is not increasing F anywhere. AA will continue to offer four daily 772 redeye flights between the U.S. and Sao Paulo, just like last year.

In the end they will not offer F only to Rio de Janeiro. Lets see the results. That's my only comment Mark, they could run 1 pair of 772 on AA905 to GIG, it's a good performer.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 17):
No, they will have 3x 772 (MIA) and 1x 763 (JFK).... Correct?

Don't forget about DFW.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3245 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 17):
No, they will have 3x 772 (MIA) and 1x 763 (JFK).... Correct?

The fourth 772 he is talking about is DFW.


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3238 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Don't forget about DFW.



Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 19):
The fourth 772 he is talking about is DFW.

Sure, thanks for the reminder... my bad..

But I still think they should make MIA 2x 772 + 1 763 keeping JFK with 1x 772..



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 20):
But I still think they should make MIA 2x 772 + 1 763 keeping JFK with 1x 772..

Agree, any other mix would be better: DFW + 2 MIA + 1 JFK or DFW + 3 MIA (1 to GIG)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3211 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
AA is not increasing F anywhere. AA will continue to offer four daily 772 redeye flights between the U.S. and Sao Paulo, just like last year.

Indeed, this will be the strategy of AA, downgrading JFK butu keeping capacity ion Sao Paulo via MIA and DFW gateway and therefore also keeping F cabin through these gateways.

But I am surprised that JFK market saw such as drastic drop in demand to the point AA will cut F cabin. But as we agree, JFK-GRU is extremely competitive market with 4 players fighting for each passenger.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
The fact AA downgraded the route doesn't mean a better environment for the daylight flight



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 11):
With AA dropping capacity in JFK, maybe JJ will reconsider their decision to downgrade their day-light services...?

I think AA decision but at least boost TAM confidence considering that even TAM daylight flight has F cabin!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
And once they lose their loyalty F customers, they wouldn't recover so easy which reduces the ability to see the 772 back to JFK-GRU-GIG.

And they will certainly migrate to TAM and JAL. And once they experience competition they may not come back...I am certain TAM is very happy with the decision, especially because it has F class and also because it will continue operating GIG-JFK without competition.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Yes, and may be is the opportunity DL is waiting for, they can introduce the B764 with flat beds to compete with AA on a better condition as AA 763 does not offer PTV.
TAM also will got the loyalty of Y customers that like PTVs, not so much, but enough to improve their loads and results.

As you said, this is the best chance for DL to introduce the B764 with flat beds and capture the market with a top product.

On the other hand, AA decided to focus its forces in the MIA and DFW markets which at the end of the day are not so affected by the financial markets crisis.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 17):
No, they will have 3x 772 (MIA) and 1x 763 (JFK).... Correct?

4 B772 dedicated to GRU (3 from MIA and 1 from DFW), plus THE B767 shared between GIG and GRU.

We have to remember that AA increased capacity to Brazil through the introduction of services to CNF, SSA, REC and MAO, therefore, a reduction of capacity in GRU,GIG was expected. I am not entirely surprised with AA new network configuration, overall it is still a major improvement as compared to the previous season.

Rgs,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3209 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 20):
But I still think they should make MIA 2x 772 + 1 763 keeping JFK with 1x 772..

But they don't. Because there is more local F demand from Miami and Miami captures a much larger amount of connecting traffic, so it will capture F demand from D.C., New York, Houston and wherever else it might be arriving from.

It's shocking how people can't understand this. Its as if the world is ending because AA is temporarily ending F service on JFK-GRU.



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3197 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
But they don't. Because there is more local F demand from Miami and Miami captures a much larger amount of connecting traffic, so it will capture F demand from D.C., New York, Houston and wherever else it might be arriving from.

It's shocking how people can't understand this. Its as if the world is ending because AA is temporarily ending F service on JFK-GRU.

This is a clear market strategy in which AA is focusing on its hubs in MIA and DFW which are indeed the best hubs for capturing demand. As you said, JFK-GRU-GIG deals mainly with O&D.

Rgs,


25 C010T3 : It kind of is. If AA were resuming JFK-GIG for the high season, it would make sense, but to make a temporary change to a service that has been stable
26 LipeGIG : It's shocking to me that a key route become a bad performer so quick and MIA-GRU does not perform better right now than JFK-GRU-GIG.
27 MAH4546 : We don't know the 2009 performance of these routes. We know a lot of figures, but we don't know how the economy has affected pricing. Of course, MIA-
28 LAXdude1023 : Well, you could say the same thing about MIA-LHR. MIA-LHR on a per flight basis out preforms JFK-LHR on a per flight basis, however JFK-LHR no doubt
29 Hardiwv : DFW-GRU in fact was already performing better than JFK-GRU-GIG which even led to some sesasonal upgrades from daily to 12 weekly, and now we have the
30 LipeGIG : No Hardi, AA decided to downgrade DFW-GRU from 12 to 10 and don't forget the second flight is in a 763 and now for less time than previous years.JFK-
31 LipeGIG : Just as a side note Loads on F to Brazil next thursday JFK - 6 seats, 3 goes to GIG (1A i believe is blocked for crew use) MIA AA907 - 1F MIA AA995 -
32 JJ8080 : Totally agree... It is about time DL offers competitive C/F product to Brazil replacing those tired BizElite seats on their B763s... You are right...
33 LipeGIG : AA continues to enjoy a competitive advantage on this route. TAM better deal with Brazilians due to the early morning arrival in Sao Paulo and Rio. A
34 JJ8080 : Thanks for the numbers, Felipe. It shows how strong F demand continues on JFK market, frenquently with more pax than MIA+DFW...
35 Hardiwv : But Lipe do not forget that one DFW-GRU is B772!!! MIA certainly captures more markets to Brazil because of its better connection, JFK-Brazil is norm
36 Panamair : Not only is it just anecdotal, but we don't know whether these F pax are in the cabin as a result of mileage redemption (award tickets), upgrades, et
37 LipeGIG : Hardi, i do not made any other comment other than saying that there's F demand. I flew AA service to GIG recently twice (AA950) and i know what i saw
38 Incitatus : I know several people for whom that is the case. The F seats are as good as a gym mat, but for people who want to sleep overnight and hit the road th
39 MAH4546 : I can already tell you some of those are absolutely wrong. You have done nothing more than look at the seat maps! Do you really think AA gives away a
40 LipeGIG : Yes i believe because all times i fly with AA the available seats are the ones AA.com shows a few days before. For first and business if more custome
41 MAH4546 : Well, I will tell you right now you are absolutely wrong. The online seat maps are no indiciation of seat availability. Not at all. For one reason, t
42 LipeGIG : Just to be clear, i'm not trying you wrong and i'm right. I'm giving you my opinion based on a customer point of view. I'm not trying to say (and we
43 MAH4546 : A large number of customers - even in this day and age - have unassgined seats until check-in. This is why you cannot look at seat maps and get load
44 LipeGIG : On this i agree 100% and we have discussed that many times. My only point is just, if the demand is smaller from JFK, and would continue to be smalle
45 MAH4546 : I don't disagree with you there, that AA should try to run a daily 772 on MIA-GIG. We can only infer that AA sees more value keeping F capacity at GR
46 JJ8080 : Very good point.... GRU surely is stronger on F, but 7C16F cut on it would be ok considering GIG would keep F...
47 Hardiwv : I also agree that AA could have made an effort and at least deploy a daily MIA-GIG B772 to keep the supply of F seats and better product option in GI
48 C010T3 : Well, I don't why he would write about it including the promotional fare and all, but that's why I asked in the first place. But it did make sense, s
49 LipeGIG : This is a kind of decision where it's clear that the airline is not using any good sense. It's impossible to sell 48F from MIA to GRU on week days, a
50 JJ8080 : You said it all... The will be not only loosing F custumers in Rio (and São Paulo), but also giving lots of free F upgrades (and consequently C upgr
51 MAH4546 : I love how everybody is trying to rationalize AA's "poor" planning by trying to make-up facts and assumptions about how AA fills thier F cabins. It's
52 JJ8080 : I tried but couldn't find nobody making-up facts and assumptions here... Also, if AA (and other airlines) does never takes any wrong decisions, this
53 MAH4546 : You did it yourself in post 50. AA makes mistakes, but AA also knows what their F market is right now. It's very easy to make mistakes when launching
54 LipeGIG : If "poor" planning or not, all i know is that a good planning means profits, something i can't see on AA balance sheet nowadays.
55 JJ8080 : You should use more coution when you say somebody is MAKING-UP something... There is a huge difference between saying personal opinion/preductions an
56 OP3000 : I'd keep in mind that AA's main target market on F and C is the USA-based business traveler, a lot of whom have corporate contracts and/or are loyal e
57 MAH4546 : It's all over their Latin American network. Why on earth do you think AA continues to reallocate assets to Latin America? It's amazing how bitter you
58 LipeGIG : Obviously is where they got the best return on their assets. It's amazing how bitter you get because AA drops F service from the oh-so-prestigious GI
59 Incitatus : Most writers in a.net have some kind of bias. For example, a few of them have a MIA bias.
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