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Where Will DL 777s Go?  
User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9930 times:

So we know after the summer that ATL-PVG, ATL-ICN, and ATL-NRT on 777s will not be operating. So where will the 777s go? And actually ATLNRT on 777 is all zeroed out after July....which makes sense since I have heard ATLNRT went from a great flight to a disaster since all of the extra capacity was added. So there is a 777 available starting in August, plus more once ATL-PVG and ATL-ICN and nowhere as of yet to send them. Any thoughts?

Here are mine:

-DTW-PVG was advertised with the DOT as a 744 until the 787 arrived, at which time it would switch. Since the 787s would already be here had Boeing delivered on-time, I think DL has a perfectly good case for changing this flight to a 777 (a larger plane than the 787) this fall.
-DTW-NRT instead of going to 1 daily 744 this fall could have 4x frequency from ATL-PVG or ATL-ICN moved to daily 744 and 4x 777.
-ATL-GRU/GIG/EZE could go to a 777 this winter
-Extra frequency on ATL-TLV?
-Switching JFK-TLV back to 777
-Take DTW-NGO from 5x 744 to 7x 777?
-LAX-NRT to 777 since they can't make up their mind b/w 744 and 332?
-SEA-AMS/NRT to get the extra seats they wanted with the 333 upgrade...but the range to operate during the winter?

Any other thoughts?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9893 times:

I believe that several will be going to the Africa routes...don't quote me on that though. I know JNB just went to a 777LR from a 764. It now doesn't have to stop in Dakar.

User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1187 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9896 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Thread starter):

-DTW-PVG was advertised with the DOT as a 744 until the 787 arrived, at which time it would switch. Since the 787s would already be here had Boeing delivered on-time, I think DL has a perfectly good case for changing this flight to a 777 (a larger plane than the 787) this fall.

We are hearing that this flight will go to the 777.. Nothing official yet.


User currently offlineBmiBaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9887 times:

Would LHR ever see the Boeing 777?

User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9870 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1):
I believe that several will be going to the Africa routes...don't quote me on that though. I know JNB just went to a 777LR from a 764. It now doesn't have to stop in Dakar.

But what else in Africa needs a 777?

I guess ATL-LOS could go daily instead of 5x. JFK-CAI could use the range, though I am not sure that it could use that many seats.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8419 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9831 times:
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777 will see action on some NW routes from DTW. Also JFK to NRT is 777 flown now too.

User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9755 times:

Well, here is a list of the 777 routes that will be left this fall:

ATL-JNB Daily 77L
ATL-TLV Daily 77E
ATL-LOS 5X 77E
AT-DXB Daily 77E/77L
JFK-NRT Daily 77E
JFK-BOM 5X 77L
LAX-SYD Daily 77L

I have not found and to my knowledge there are not any other changes or additions (yet).

What I am coming up for required equipment is 6 77L and 6 77E for this schedule. That leaves two 77E and two 77L for additional service or service changes.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9728 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Thread starter):
-LAX-NRT to 777 since they can't make up their mind b/w 744 and 332?

I don't think this will happen.

UA already tried the 744 downgrade on LAX-NRT, ended up going back to 744. Now NW/DL tried a downgrade from 744 on the same route, ended up reversing that decision as well.

Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Thread starter):
-SEA-AMS/NRT to get the extra seats they wanted with the 333 upgrade...but the range to operate during the winter?

The A333 can do it. Max fuel load on the NW A330-323X is 172,000# which is enough gas to carry it the distance. It just might not be able to carry a full cargo payload as the difference between its MZFW and MGTOW is only 128,000#

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 6):

Isn't JFK-MAD operating with a 777 as well or is that a summer-only thing?


User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9645 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 7):
Isn't JFK-MAD operating with a 777 as well or is that a summer-only thing?

For now the schedule shows it as a daily 767, however the fall schedule has not been finalized and wont be until end of July and early August.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9551 times:



Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 3):
Would LHR ever see the Boeing 777?

Not likely. DL tends to use 777s to destinations that require the 777's range. DL is more likely to use the A333 if it needs higher capacity than a 764 to LHR.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9530 times:



Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 8):
For now the schedule shows it as a daily 767

Check 09JUL, 10JUL, 12JUL, etc...


User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9506 times:

To Turkey. Rumor has it some of the 777s will be leased to Turkish Air for a couple of years.

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6489 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9494 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Thread starter):
I have heard ATLNRT went from a great flight to a disaster since all of the extra capacity was added.

Please expand on that remark a bit. Are you using the word "disaster" as a gross exaggeration
as many of the younger members of this forum seem to do? I do not believe any knowledgeable at DL or any any other airline think that. Do you have insider knowledge of Delta like another younger member hints he has?


User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9476 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
Please expand on that remark a bit.

From my *very* reliable source...the quote was "Went from top 3 TPAC, to bottom 2 of TPAC"


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9467 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 9):
Not likely. DL tends to use 777s to destinations that require the 777's range. DL is more likely to use the A333 if it needs higher capacity than a 764 to LHR.

They've used them to LGW, MAN, DUB/SNN in the past. They even used to have several domestic runs with them as well (ATL-MCO, MCO-JFK, ATL-LAX comes to mind.).

I actually would not be surprised if some 767s either get parked for the time being or put into domestic duty (I'd put the 764s as the likely candidate if some international 767s were to be put onto more domestic duty since they do have an IFE system similar to the 767/757 transcons.). Or perhaps they fast track the retirement of some 744s and replace them with the extra 777s or 764s (I could see them putting the 764 back on the Hawaii runs in that case.).


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6489 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9452 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 13):
From my *very* reliable source...the quote was "Went from top 3 TPAC, to bottom 2 of TPAC"

Top 3 of what to the top 2 of what? Also please explain your exaggeration. Did your reliable source at Delta use the word disaster? Couldn't the loads be down because of the economy like loads from everywhere to the far east particularly NRT.


User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9341 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 10):
Check 09JUL, 10JUL, 12JUL, etc...

That is still part of the summer schedule, fall starts end of August beginning of September.

I personally (no DL inside info) that the 77E will be routed through NRT and that you will possible see MSP-NRT or one of the DTW-NRT downgraded to 777. This will be a capacity reduction as the 747 they replace will go to the desert. I am willing to bet that DTW-PVG will happen with a 77E and I could ATL-PEK starting next year with a 77L. Also on a side note the 332 has the range for ATL-LOS which could be used to free up another 77E.

Side note: Can someone confirm the 2010 deliveries of 77L? My understanding is 2 in Q1 or Q2, then options for two in Q4.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9274 times:



Quoting Okie73 (Reply 11):
To Turkey. Rumor has it some of the 777s will be leased to Turkish Air for a couple of years.

What a waste. DL starts buying a bunch of 777s only to lease them out to other carriers. YAWN...

Jeremy


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17649 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if the extra 777 capacity kicks some 744s to the curb.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1187 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9229 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 17):
Quoting Okie73 (Reply 11):
To Turkey. Rumor has it some of the 777s will be leased to Turkish Air for a couple of years.

What a waste. DL starts buying a bunch of 777s only to lease them out to other carriers. YAWN...

Jeremy

Unlikely

777 will replace 744


User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9227 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
I wouldn't be surprised if the extra 777 capacity kicks some 744s to the curb.

That's what I was thinking....unless they really do begin to utilize 744s to places like GRU in the winter. Maybe a 744 on ATL-CDG? But you are right....the 744's fleet size will probably start to shrink soon.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9167 times:



Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 16):
Also on a side note the 332 has the range for ATL-LOS which could be used to free up another 77E.

No it does not.

The NW A332's have a realistic max duration of around 12 hours, no further. With LOS-ATL going north of 13, that's way outside of the useful range envelope of those A332's.

Further, the NW/DL pilot contract mandates any flight over 12 hours have a bunk-room for the crew. The A330's have a bunkroom with a single bunk, not two. You'd have to reconfigure the entire fleet to accommodate these needed changes.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9553 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9155 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Thread starter):
-DTW-PVG was advertised with the DOT as a 744 until the 787 arrived, at which time it would switch. Since the 787s would already be here had Boeing delivered on-time, I think DL has a perfectly good case for changing this flight to a 777 (a larger plane than the 787) this fall.

IMO they may add a 777 on it and it might be able to go daily

Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Thread starter):
Any other thoughts?

TechOps for new C seats starting winter 10  Wink (unless they change it.......again)

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 3):
Would LHR ever see the Boeing 777?

Not right now. Once more 777s come i wouldn't rule it out. IMO LHR could be a good city to use to get T7s to ATL,JFK,DTW. CDG could also be used.

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 11):

To Turkey. Rumor has it some of the 777s will be leased to Turkish Air for a couple of years.

What it is with rumor.....wish it would die. Anyways If DL has spare 777s they will use them to replace 744s.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
Please expand on that remark a bit. Are you using the word "disaster" as a gross exaggeration
as many of the younger members of this forum seem to do? I do not believe any knowledgeable at DL or any any other airline think that. Do you have insider knowledge of Delta like another younger member hints he has?

low loads due to flu, Econ. Also adding almost 400 seats a day.
DTW-NRT is reduced(1x daily) to help put PAXs on JFK,SLC and ATL-NRT.



yep.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8896 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 22):
TechOps for new C seats starting winter 10 (unless they change it.......again)

The 777ER's are getting reconfigured with new lie-flat BusinessElite seats in the winter of 2010?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineTrigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8859 times:

My mother-in-law used to fly regularly ATL-NRT and back for work. Usually she flew DL 777's but this time she flew a NW 744. I am assuming this is a permanent replacement?

25 LipeGIG : Difficult, DL would need 6 frames to do it. Better to use 764's from Europe destinations with less demand on winter.
26 MaverickM11 : They added up to three daily flights with almost 1000 daily seats to a market that has been in a long decline even before the economic downturn and s
27 MCOAviationFan : The latest info is that 777 will be placed on the DTW-PVG route in Sept. 777 will prob be replacing 747 on other routes and some 747 parked. No furthe
28 Bobnwa : Still do not understand "went from top 3 TPAC to bottom 2 of TPAC" . Top and bottom of what?
29 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : TPAC= Trans Pacific Top 3 Trans-Pacific routes to bottom 2 Trans-Pacific Routes. It was in reference to RASM.
30 Evan767 : I'd like to know the time period that ATL-NRT went from top to bottom. Just a year ago the only TPAC Delta had was PVG, ICN, and NRT from ATL, so it
31 As739x : I don't believe NW is trying to make up its mind on LAX-NRT. That route is out of the A332 range. Thats why it's never been an A332 route. So it does
32 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : This quote was meant in the context of the combined carrier. ATLNRT was Top 3 TPAC routes including all of NW routes, and after the capacity increase
33 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : DL made it an A332 for the month of April and May...which was supposed to be a permanent change...but then realized a 332 wasn't enough plane for the
34 Pilotboi : MCO! MCO! MCO! That's what I'm rooting for.
35 Trigged : My mother-in-law was just on the NW NRT-ATL flight a few days ago and she said it was really full, and that was on a 744. I would assume that full pl
36 LACA773 : With all the NRT flights out of LAX it would make sense for DL to sub the 744 for a 77E for competitive reasons since it's a new a/c, more fuel effice
37 Directorguy : Not necessarily. At certain times, CAI is overbooked. DL seems to be doing well and gaining market share and brand awareness. The only question is, w
38 United_Fan : They could always use them on the Mickey Mouse shuttle ATL-MCO,make it 90% Y-seating Kidding!!!!!
39 Twolz2rn : When I first took this flight two weeks ago, I talked to a F/A whos a "regular" on this route and she said its always full in Y, at least 95%. When I
40 Bobnwa : Since you seem to have access to them, please publish the TPAC route rankings for DL/NW before and after the capacity increase. They would be interes
41 Directorguy : Well then, CAI as a 777 route is perhaps something DL can look at later then...in any case, DL has done extremely well in a short space of time. Wond
42 DeltaL1011man : it got pushed back last year due to money.......we'll see if they do it this year.
43 Phollingsworth : Add to that the fact the the new 77Ls were delivered 3 months late due to the strike and there wasn't any leeway in the planned utilization. This hav
44 DLflynhayn : I would love that! but don't think that would happen anytime soon.I think we will just see more 757's on the Hawaii routes from LAX.The morning flt t
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