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Virgin Had Looked At A Bid For BA!  
User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3360 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 9349 times:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article6544321.ece

From todays Sunday Times, a larger article in the papers Business section.

It would appear the great bearded one is stirring the pot ahead of talks and has found a friendly newspaper.  stirthepot 


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20342 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

Oh how odd it will be if BA ceases to exist...

User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9126 times:

Surely the competition commission would never allow it.

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9113 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Surely the competition commission would never allow it.

Whilst I really can't see it happening, I'm curious what difference would this be between BA buying BCal and Dan-Air? Those were allowed.


User currently offlineBtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9017 times:
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Another interesting look into things at BA:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article6543863.ece

Given the current "crisis" at BA I have wondered too if they are banging their drum loudly so as to possibly accelerate approval of their merger with IB and AA.

Interesting read.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 747 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8988 times:

And how is the beardy one going to pay for BA?? He's got even less cash than Wee Willie!


Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8970 times:

It's just SRB stirring things up as usual. Prefers to try and highlight the issues at BA with the 'strength' of VS. So how would he manage to acquire BA? Has he asked his 49% shareholder, SQ, about this?

The bearded one did this several years ago - he indicated that if BA's share price dropped below 100p he'd bid. Personally, I don't think SRB would go near BA. He's not want all the grief of dealing with a company that size. He's be no knight in shining armour and it's all posturing on his part.

BD was a different matter, especially as he'd have been able to keep the VS name. Can you really see the BA brand being ditched in favour of VS?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7658 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8819 times:



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 6):
Can you really see the BA brand being ditched in favour of VS?

That I think is the entire point, it obviously is not all about shareholder value. Since BA has lost some value, a merger with IB could well turn out to be a "takeover" despite what its called, what is the difference with VS? If Branson can get investors on board to put up the funds some could reason that its better for the assets to remain UK controlled rather than another foreign entity, numerous UK companies have already been bought out and still operate essentially in name only, whats the difference? Unlike the US who have numerous barriers in place for their local carriers, I understand these do not exist in the UK so.....

Caveat being that I am aware that SRB has a penchant for grabbing and attempting to make headlines, but on principle it can be done so I will not dismiss it simply because of who he is, if he can line his ducks up in a row more power to him, it would certainely reveal whether there is any bias within the "officialdom" against him and towards BA.


User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8771 times:

FlyCaledonian

Virgin Group is NOT Virgin Atlantic.

The Bearded one owns the brand and is Chairman of VIrgin Group.

Virgin Group own 51% (And this may be split down further with Group owning some of that % and Branson a small amount directly- not sure on this) of Virgin Atlantic with the balance owned by SQ.

If "Virgin Group"were to bid for BA (Unlikely) - SQA would have no say what so ever.

I have said for some time that BA are prey rather than predator and remain of that opinion.

Whether Virgin Group is the correct company and could raise the capital however is debatable.


User currently offlineMgmacius From Poland, joined Jun 2007, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8599 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Oh how odd it will be if BA ceases to exist...

It happened before - PanAm is perfect example (or AIG, but that's a bit offtopic)



734, 735, 738, 744, 763, 772, 773, A319, A320, A380, Dash8, E170, Saab340A
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8503 times:



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 6):
Has he asked his 49% shareholder, SQ, about this?

Just out of interest, I'm immensley curious about this constant reference to SQ as 49% shareholder. So tell me, who all owns BA.......how many different shareholders (owners) do they have? In essence, what's your point as it's completely irrelevant? You obviously seem to be unaware that SQ are only a 49% shareholder in VS, not Virgin.

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 6):
It's just SRB stirring things up as usual

How? BA are not immune to being bought?

Quoting Par13del (Reply 7):
If Branson can get investors on board to put up the funds some could reason that its better for the assets to remain UK controlled rather than another foreign entity, numerous UK companies have already been bought out and still operate essentially in name only, whats the difference?

 checkmark  well said, and yes indeed......no difference whatever.


User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7420 times:

This made me lol. BA won't dissappear any time soon. I think this is SRB having a go. How interesting it would be of BA became VS! HAHHAHAH

User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6969 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 10):
BA are not immune to being bought?

Well that is quite right, BA is a publicly quoted company and ANYONE with sufficient cash can make an offer following the strict rules laid down in the City Code on Takeovers.

SRB took VGroup private after a short time on the London Stock Exchange as he didnt feel the city properly valued the airline (same is true of BA if you look at the shareprice movement from record profit last year to record loss this year)

Any offer is made to the shareholders, but usually first off you try to get te Directors of the target to support your attempt so it can be presented as a recommended offer.

Either way though the individual shareholders receive details of the offer and they decide. Now the basis of aceptance would be frankly to wash your hands of your BA shares at this time. (although of course you could sell them on open market at any time to achieve this)

The big institutions obviously control most shares BUT the offeror runs the risk he cant get a sensbile % acceptances and is left with a rump of shares and absolutely no control or Board representation, a very high risk. (Look at FR and EI although here initially FR bought shares on open market up to the limit which requires a bid MUST be made for the balance clealry signalling that they were deadly serious about taking over EI. ) In the absence of SRB buying a stake in BA he really is most likely just seeking attention.

BTW no shareholder can be forced to accept the offer UNLESS over 90% of the shares subject to the offer accept that offer in which case compulsory purchase can kick in.

There are enough BA staffers, retired staffers, BA frequent flyers etc and loyal institutions to keep it well below this level (unless the directors of BA recommended a bid from a white knight!)

I would also add no airline has the spare cash to take on such an acquisition, assuming the premium to current share price necessary is about 40% (an average of past takeovers) then 190p a share or £2.5bn to acquire the shares and then take on the pension deficit and all the bank borrowings AND (if we are to believe wee willie), inject vital cash into the company urgently. That is quite an ask of any competitor!! I would estimate a £4bn immediate cash requirement to attempt it. (and some institutions have a target BA share price of 230p to 260p which many shareholders will be focussing on which could add another £1bn if thats what is needed to get acceptances)

Ultimatley BA needs to address once and for all working practices and then it can confidently go the the market itself and ask its shareholders for more money through a rights issue


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6879 times:

I do not want him to succeed with this for one reason alone.
BA still retains ownership of all the Concordes.
I don't want Richard Branson to get his hands on them.

Thinking of which.... doesn't Singapore Airlines own the majority stakes in Virgin airlines?  Big grin



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6777 times:



Quoting Heathrow (Reply 11):
This made me lol. BA won't dissappear any time soon.

 checkmark 

There are plenty of airlines that will disappear before BA.



Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6606 times:



Quoting Edina (Reply 5):
And how is the beardy one going to pay for BA?? He's got even less cash than Wee Willie!

This kind of talk reminds me of the late 80s in the USA, where the M&A train routinely created a matchup where a company in horrible shape with no money buys another company in horrible shape through some trickeration, and it didn't do anyone any good but the investment bankers and insiders.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6606 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Thinking of which.... doesn't Singapore Airlines own the majority stakes in Virgin airlines?

Once again, how is SQ's 49% stake of Virgin Atlantic (not Virgin airlines at all) of any relevance?

Quoting Mutu (Reply 12):
Well that is quite right

A very good and and interesting post indeed, but my comment was neither disagreeing with it, or disputing it. I was clearly stating the BA are not immune to being bought.......a factual aspect which you've agreed with.

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 11):
I think this is SRB having a go

So how do you reach that conclusion? Based on what specifically?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6566 times:



Quoting Btblue (Reply 4):
Given the current "crisis" at BA I have wondered too if they are banging their drum loudly so as to possibly accelerate approval of their merger with IB and AA.



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 6):
It's just SRB stirring things up as usual.

You guys both are hitting the nails right on the head!

I believe that Willie Walsh is playing up the "woe is us if we dont get ATI" card. The whole reason of all of these press releases and all of this doomsaying is so he can make things seem worse than they actually are. I belive he thinks this will help push BA/IB/AA toward ATI. And I hope hes right since its about damn time for that.

As far as SRB is concerned, what can we say other than he loves attention. He'll try and get it at any turn. Its like a little child running in front of the camera saying "look at me!". Thats not something thats likely to change unfortunately.



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20342 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6389 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 3):


Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Surely the competition commission would never allow it.

Not I... that was Glom.


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1630 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6241 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
BA still retains ownership of all the Concordes.
I don't want Richard Branson to get his hands on them.

why is that?


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6160 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Not I... that was Glom.

Ooops! sorry Doc.......don't rightly know how that happened, and I never even noticed it until you pointed it out just now. Apologies!

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 17):
As far as SRB is concerned, what can we say other than he loves attention. He'll try and get it at any turn. Its like a little child running in front of the camera saying "look at me!". Thats not something thats likely to change unfortunately.

Correct to a point, yes. However, it's also got him to where he is. In addition, if any other airline owner/CEO could successfully get away with it they'd do it in a heartbeat.......as well as give their right arm for a % of his business accumen. What I chuckle more at here on a.net is not one of those who claim such things can actually justify it with anything factual. It's only perception and opinion.


User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6135 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 16):
Once again, how is SQ's 49% stake of Virgin Atlantic (not Virgin airlines at all) of any relevance?

Clearly they are absolutely relevant as it would massively p!$$ them off, as a result of a Virgin Group owned BA being an absolute and total conflict of interest. Why would Virgin send any traffic through a Virgin flight he has to give 49% of the profit to SQ, when they could put them all on a BA flight and retain 100%?

I would be amazed if the agreement between Virgin and SQ didn't prevent any Virgin Group bid for BA.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20342 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5971 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 20):

Ooops! sorry Doc.......don't rightly know how that happened, and I never even noticed it until you pointed it out just now. Apologies!

No worries!

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 20):

Correct to a point, yes. However, it's also got him to where he is. In addition, if any other airline owner/CEO could successfully get away with it they'd do it in a heartbeat.......as well as give their right arm for a % of his business accumen. What I chuckle more at here on a.net is not one of those who claim such things can actually justify it with anything factual. It's only perception and opinion.

SRB has a business model that works for him, but if he died tomorrow the Virgin group would still continue to operate. WN has gotten on just fine without Herb and the various Virgins around the world would do fine without SRB.

Madonna has a similar business model. A bit of shock is a good way to get a lot of attention.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5925 times:



Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 21):
Clearly they are absolutely relevant as it would massively p!$$ them off,

It has absolutely no relevance in the context of what is being discussed. SQ have a 49% share of Virgin Atlantic Airways, not the Virgin Group of Companies. It might well annoy them, but still completely irrelevant. Would it not equally be open to being annoyed that the popular belief is SQ wishing to sell it's share?

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 21):
I would be amazed if the agreement between Virgin and SQ didn't prevent any Virgin Group bid for BA.

Now that gets a chuckle out of me, and it's really grasping at straws. Firstly, like any of us here, you have absolutely no idea what is contained in the share agreement so your comment is a mixture of pure fallacy and wild guessing. Secondly, when SQ took a share in VS many years ago, the thought of BA being bought by anyone would border on the laughable......so are you seriously suggesting that a clause was miraclously put in at that time? Hey! be amazed all you wish!


User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1338 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

Just to add, this isn't anything new per se. SRB has considered this previously when BA's share price dived towards £1 a share. For the reasons Mutu details, it is unlikely that a bid in today's climate would be succesful.

25 EA CO AS : I wish he'd knock it off - he's BORING already.
26 Knid : I would respectfully disagree, although I too think that SQ's ownership stake in VS does nothing to imply that SQ should restrict the Virgin Group fr
27 USAirways787 : British Airways is to much of a symbol to the UK for the Government to just let it go. However Pan Am did go under, but I sincerely doubt the UK gover
28 Geo772 : The UK government has no interest in BA or any other airline for that matter. This has clearly been shown by their decision to double the taxation on
29 Antonovman : Yeah hes getting almost as boring as AirNZ who must think all his christmasses have come at once with all the bad news flying around about BA It seem
30 Shankly : Indeed, a very secretive business model, which sometimes when you stand back and look at VS you wonder really how it all works. Is VS a premium airli
31 Post contains links BCAL : I think there is a much better chance of FR successfully bidding for LH than the Bearded One bidding for BA! How can a brand that has an airline with
32 Mutu : You are now my official Poet Laureat. I endorse everything you have said. Whilst I admire SRB up to a point, there are limits to what is acceptable.
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