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DL's CVG Based German Speakers  
User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

DL has tons of German speakers based in CVG. Most of them are pretty senior and fly DL48/49 CVG-FRA-CVG exclusively and have been doing so for many, many years. Sometimes flight 48/49 was staffed with entirely German cabin crew.

Now that DL will terminate FRA from CVG I was wondering what the majority of the German qualified FA's will do? Are they going to stay in CVG and fly domestically and to CDG or will most of them consider a transfer to either ATL or JFK in order to be able to keep flying to FRA and also some other German destinations which they haven't had a chance to get to from CVG.

Anyone with any insight who knows if some of the senior German ladies at CVG have already put in transfers to ATL? Or are some even considering to quit?

I'm sure they are also very disappointed about DL's decision to cancel FRA from CVG. After all that flight has been around for 20 years. In the mid 90's they even had two CVG to FRA flights.

Any thoughts, any info?

Best regards

L1011Lover

[Edited 2009-06-21 08:30:14]

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Tons????

Cincinnati has less then 30 German speakers...


User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

Oh okay... There used to be a lot more back in the 90's. I didn't know there were "only" less than 30 of them left.

I know of some who transferred to ATL a while ago... and of course some obviously retired ever since. Probably many of those very senior ones I've talked about are retired by now.

Anyhow, even if there aren't that many German qualified LOD FA's left in CVG I wonder what they are going to do now that CVG will be losing FRA? Especially since they are not that many anymore and therefore probably can easily hold their FRA trips and some might fly there exclusively.

[Edited 2009-06-21 18:30:33]

User currently offlineOffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

I would think they would just begin to commute to ATL, especially if they are more senior crew. The ATL-CVG is a quick flight and with good seniority I doubt it would be a problem. Maybe even commute to JFK as well.


OffshoreAir
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Lets say it is 30 German speaking F/A's that are bases in CVG. I would wager that most of the 30 do not live in CVG and already commute from somewhere. The few that do live in CVG can still bid schedules out of CVG on non FRA flights. The ones that already commute will continue that but to a different home base.

User currently offlineAvconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3393 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4):
I would wager that most of the 30 do not live in CVG and already commute from somewhere.

Maybe, but remember Cincinnati has one of the largest German-American population in the US. When I lived there, my neighbors on both side of me and across the street all had German accents. They were 3rd generation Germans in the US and spoke German as their primary language in the home. There were several times, in public, I felt like I was in Germany.

There was plenty of traditional German restaurants throughout the Nati. I was surprised!!


User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3360 times:



Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 5):
They were 3rd generation Germans in the US and spoke German as their primary language in the home.

Wow, that's absolutely amazing that 3rd generation Germans still spoke German at home !!! In most other places in the US, Germans tended to assimilate quite thoroughly with the rest of the population and therefor lost most of the linguistic and cultural ties to their homeland, but I guess in a place like Cincinatti, where there was such a large German community, that this allowed the continuation of the language, almost 100 years on !!!


User currently offlineAvconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3329 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 6):
In most other places in the US, Germans tended to assimilate quite thoroughly with the rest of the population and therefor lost most of the linguistic and cultural ties to their homeland, but I guess in a place like Cincinnati, where there was such a large German community, that this allowed the continuation of the language, almost 100 years on !!!

Absolutely. There were 2 German radio stations on the AM frequency playing older German folk music and reporting news throughout Germany which I thought was very cool. In fact, it was large German Jewish community, so I thought they were refugee's from Hitler and the Third Reich. NOPE!! As you said they migrated over 100 yrs prior with a lot still remaining in their communities. My neighbor's parents and sibling all lived within walking distance of one another.

An Anetter named Skibum is from CVG and can shed more light than me.

Unfortunately a lot has changed for SW Ohio with this economy, one of my fondest memories of CVG was the neighborhood grocer. A small store with 80% of the store being the meat section. The 2 locations I patron were 2nd & 3rd generation German's. That was the best meat I've ever purchased. Get this, I called one of the locations asking for hamburger meat and buns. They sent the meat and buns to my house with a runner (an employee). I tried paying him, he said he was not allowed to take cash nor a tip and they would bill me. This was in 2002!! That's unheard of!!

I hope they survive this economy, but I'm afraid they might not.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3219 times:



Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 5):
Maybe, but remember Cincinnati has one of the largest German-American population in the US.

If were talking about foreign born Germans, they dont. The Cincinnati MSA had 2,616 foreign born Germans as of 2005. By comparrison Clevelands foreign born German population is about 2.5 times that at 6,056. Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Minneapolis, and St. Louis (only looking at Midwest cities) all had larger populations of Germans. In fact only the Columbus, OH MSA had a smaller one.



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User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3195 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
If were talking about foreign born Germans

No, I would say in this post we're not really talking about foreign born Germans, but Americans who can trace there heritage back to Germany and who are at least 3rd generation Americans. The majority of German-Americans arrived in the US between 1840 and 1900. At one point there was so many Germans in the United States that here was even a vote to decide if the official language would be English or German !!!

Since 1900 I would say that there have been comparatively a lot less Germans migrating to the US, and that since 1960 for example there would only be very few, so that today, numbers in the US of Germans actually born in Germany are very low.

I think the reason why there were so many German speakers working for DL is not because those people were born in Germnay, but because like Avconsultant said, many tight-knit German communities existed in the Cincinatti area where German was still widely spoken at home.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3179 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 9):
I think the reason why there were so many German speakers working for DL is not because those people were born in Germnay, but because like Avconsultant said, many tight-knit German communities existed in the Cincinatti area where German was still widely spoken at home.

But AvConsultant said Cincinatti had one of the largest German populations in the country. Even if were talking about people German heritage, the numbers show otherwise. Not saying its not there, but it certainly isnt one of the largest in the country.



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User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
But AvConsultant said Cincinatti had one of the largest German populations in the country

Actually, he said . . .

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 5):
Cincinnati has one of the largest German-American population in the US

The definition of a German-American, is an American of German descent, someone who was born in the United States, but who's ancestors came from Germany. Not someone who was born in Germany and then moved to the US, then they would just be German.

German-Americans are by far the largest ethnic group within the United States today, with about 50 million people, or 17% of the population claiming German ancestry. Within the city of Cincinatti itself, Germans-Americans make up 20% of the population, so after African-Americans are the second largest ethnicity in the city of Cincinatti itself, which has a population of 332,000. However if you looked at the the entire metropolitan area of Cincinatti, which is much, much larger at 2,155,000, I'm sure that German-Americans would probably be the largest ethnic group (unfortunately I can't find statistics for the metro area).

In most other part of the United States the German population has assimilated rather seamlessly with other nationalities, so that all that's left of their German heritage is their last names, and in a lot of cases these have even been altered for example Schmidt was "Americanised" or "Anglisiced" to Smith and Müller was changed to Miller. However it is fairly well known that Cincinatti has always had a very strong German-American community, and even has a neighborhood called Over-the-Rhine. For this reason many attributes of German culture were able to remain intact in the region, for example the fact that many families continued to speak German at home, long after their ancestors originally arrived from Germany.

[Edited 2009-06-22 08:22:02]

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10389 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3130 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
But AvConsultant said Cincinatti had one of the largest German populations in the country.

No, he didn't. Read it again, carefully.

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 5):
Maybe, but remember Cincinnati has one of the largest German-American population in the US.

Emphasis mine.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3109 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 12):



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 11):

So tell me how does that equate to Cincinnati having one of the largest German-American Populations in the USA? Its definately not in the top 15.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10389 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3068 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
So tell me how does that equate to Cincinnati having one of the largest German-American Populations in the USA? Its definately not in the top 15.

Well, I was not saying he was right, one way or another. I was just clarifying what he said.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
So tell me how does that equate to Cincinnati having one of the largest German-American Populations in the USA? Its definately not in the top 15.

I edited my post later to explain this, maybe you didn't see it.

The statistics for Cincinatti are based on the city itself, which has a population of about 300,000 and NOT on the metropolitan area of Cincinatti which has a population of over 2,000,000. If you could see statistics showing all major metropolitan areas in the United States and the ethnic make-up of those areas, I'm sure that the Cincinatti Metropolitan area would rank quite high for percentages of German-Americans. Unfortunately, no such statistics exist (or at least I can't find any), so I can't really prove anything and am just making an assumption, but based on the trends of "white-flight" and suburbanisation that occured in the last 50 years in the US, its a pretty good assumption that many German-Americans who once lived in the actual city of Cincinatti, especially in the Over-the-Rhine area, now live in the suburbs and surrounding towns.

Like in Detroit and Washington D.C. the inner city areas are predominately populated by African-Americans, in the case of the city of Cincinatti they make up 50% of the population. But also like Detroit and D.C., the suburbs of Cincinatti are predominately white, and seeing that the population of the suburbs are much larger than that of the city, statistical data for those regions can very easily be skewed if not looked at correctly.

For example, Hamilton County (population of 900,000), which the city of Cincinatti lies within, is made up of about 25% African-Americans and the other 75% is white. Unfortunately it doesn't break this down into ethnicites like it did for Cincinatti, but I'm sure the German-American population would be greater than 20% for the whole county. Other counties which are part of the Cincinatti metroplitan area have an even higher percentage of white inhabitants such as Kenton County, which is directly south of Cincinatti, at 94%.

[Edited 2009-06-22 08:53:44]

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10389 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

According to Wikipedia, Cincinnatti has the largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2923 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 11):
tually, he said . . .

Quoting Avconsultant (Reply 5):
Cincinnati has one of the largest German-American population in the US

The definition of a German-American, is an American of German descent, someone who was born in the United States, but who's ancestors came from Germany. Not someone who was born in Germany and then moved to the US, then they would just be German.

 checkmark 

Quoting Thestooges (Reply 11):
of their German heritage is their last names, and in a lot of cases these have even been altered for example Schmidt was "Americanised" or "Anglisiced" to Smith and Müller was changed to Miller.

 checkmark  They really enjoy telling you this over and over and over.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 14):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
So tell me how does that equate to Cincinnati having one of the largest German-American Populations in the USA? Its definately not in the top 15.

Well, I was not saying he was right, one way or another. I was just clarifying what he said.

When you attend a local (unheard of) German Heritage Festival with 5k - 30k people and the same celebration is taking place in multiple communities through out the city and the majority of the people have accents, I don't tend to question. At the same time, the media coverage states CVG is the USA largest German American community; again if you spend anytime there its very clear their population is significant.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 16):
rding to Wikipedia, Cincinnatti has the largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich.

Unlike any Octoberfest I have ever experienced outside of Germany!! I recommend it to all.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
So tell me how does that equate to Cincinnati having one of the largest German-American Populations in the USA? Its definately not in the top 15.

Cincinnati, Ohio
According to a 2000 census, more than four in 10 Ohioans claim German ancestry. But go to Cincinnati, known to the German-American community as Zincinnati, and the proportion rises to one half.

http://www.usa.diplo.de/Vertretung/u...03/02__Heritage/German__Fests.html


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2912 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 17):
When you attend a local (unheard of) German Heritage Festival with 5k - 30k people and the same celebration is taking place in multiple communities through out the city and the majority of the people have accents, I don't tend to question. At the same time, the media coverage states CVG is the USA largest German American community; again if you spend anytime there its very clear their population is significant.

2 things:

1) How many people attend an Oktoberfest in Cincinnati is irrelevant because lots of people who arent German go to them as well. I go to the local Oktoberfest here in LA and Im Lebanese.

2) Only numbers tell the real story about how many people of people live where. There are probably more people of German Decent in Chicago than there are people in Cincinnatti. Thats not to say that on a percentage basis that Cincinnatti might have a higher porpotion of people with German Ancestry, however when look it shear number, Cincinnatti is no where near the biggest.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
Only numbers tell the real story about how many people of people live where. There are probably more people of German Decent in Chicago than there are people in Cincinnatti. Thats not to say that on a percentage basis that Cincinnatti might have a higher porpotion of people with German Ancestry, however when look it shear number, Cincinnatti is no where near the biggest.

Yes this is completely true, there are without a doubt more German-Americans living in the Chicago metropolitan area than there are in the Cincinatti metropolitan area, but in Cincinatti they make up a larger percentage . . .

. . . and this is relevant In the context of this thread because as I have said before, the vast majority of German-Americans quickly assimilated into American culture and lost all aspects of their cultural identity such as their language and last names. In Chicago, it was much easier for German-Americans to assimilate because as a percentage, their numbers were lower, and instead of forming tight-knit communites, they intermingled and intermarried freely with other ethnic groups of American society such as the Irish- and English-Americans and as a result they stopped speaking German a long time ago.

In the Cincinatti metropolitan area, where the percentage of German-Americans is most likely one of the highest in the country (possibly 50%), this has allowed the development of tight-knit and relatively isolated communites of German-Americans who married only other German-Americans. These couples would have spoken German at home and as a result their children learned the language, who then married other German-Americans and so on, until 3 generations later, there are a substantial amount of German-Americans in the Cincinatti metropolitan area who still speak German at home. Whereas in the rest of the United States, or anywhere else in the world where Germans have migrated to, the language was lost relatively quickly after the migrants arrived.

For example my great-great grandfather migrated to Australia as a child from Prussia (now Germany), so he would have spoken German with his family. However, he married an Irish woman, and therefor they would have spoken English at home and their children most likely would never have learned German and thats where the language stopped. In Cincinatti however, there would have been such an enourmous amount of immigrants coming only from Germany, that Germans would have married each other and kept speaking their language and passed it on to thier children etc.

Unless Germans made up a significant percent of a population, they would always tend to assimilate very quickly and their language and culture would dissapear, while other ethnicities such as Italian-Americans, who even if they were a small percentage of a population, would tend to stick together and intermarry so that their language and culture persisted.

[Edited 2009-06-22 11:32:54]

User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

I

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
2) Only numbers tell the real story about how many people of people live where. There are probably more people of German Decent in Chicago than there are people in Cincinnati. Thats not to say that on a percentage basis that Cincinnati might have a higher porpotion of people with German Ancestry, however when look it shear number, Cincinnati is no where near the biggest.

Dude, you are splitting hairs!!

I do not have time to detail today, but a quick Google search shows:
-Ancestory.com states the majority of German immigrants to the US settled in Cincinnati & Environ, OH from 1790-1930.

-2001 PBS Documentary focusing on Cincinnati's MSA as one the largest German American community in the US. The largest that stays to its heritage.

-The German Mission referencing 2000 US Census listing 50% Cincinnatian with German descent.

- University of Cincinnati German American studies reference Cincinnati as 3rd largest German American Community behind Milwaukee and St. Louis.

-The US Germainia Society referencing Cincinnati as the top 3 largest German-American Community.


I lived in Chicago for 8 years and Cincinnati for 4 years. Chicago is African-American, Polish, Irish and Dutch more than German.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7562 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2775 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 20):
Dude, you are splitting hairs!!

No Im not. You said that Cincinnatti has one the largest German-American populations in America. It doesnt.

If you had said this:

Quoting Thestooges (Reply 19):
Yes this is completely true, there are without a doubt more German-Americans living in the Chicago metropolitan area than there are in the Cincinatti metropolitan area, but in Cincinatti they make up a larger percentage . . .

Then it would have made sense and been accurate.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10389 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

Actually, if you think about it, percentages have more influence than actual numbers.........for instance, we know that Cincinnatti proper has approximately 300K people........Chicago has 10 times that number......now if each city had 200K German-American population, which one is more influenced by the ethnic group.....Cincinnatti, which would have about 2/3 of its population made up of the ethnic group or Chicago, where it would just be another ethnic group, mixed in with the Poles, Greeks, Hispanics, etc.?


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2701 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 9):
I think the reason why there were so many German speakers working for DL is not because those people were born in Germnay, but because like Avconsultant said, many tight-knit German communities existed in the Cincinatti area where German was still widely spoken at home.

Many of the German qualified FA's at DL are indeed native speakers. Some of the original DL hires that are German qualified are German women who moved to the US after getting married to an American. And there are also quite a few German speakers who came from Pan Am.

I bet that CVG has tons of commuters. But the question is not if somebody is willing to commute from their home to either ATL, JFK or CVG but more of a question if DL will allow transfers from CVG to either ATL or JFK. And those who live in CVG have to make up their mind... if they wanna start to commute and put in a transfer to ATL or JFK in order to keep flying German routes or prefer to stay at the CVG base and flying domestically plus CDG (if they're senior enough to hold it shouldn't they be French qualified also). Either way it's probably quite a decision to make especially for those who were flying solely international for years.

I'll hope that everybody who asks for a transfer will get it. For whatever reason someone would want to keep flying here... some still have family in Germany and I'm sure they'd be very disappointed if they wouldn't be allowed to transfer to keep their FRA assignment regularly.

Keep my fingers crossed.

Best regards,
L1011Lover


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2632 times:
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Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 23):
more of a question if DL will allow transfers from CVG to either ATL or JFK

JFK is almost always open for transfers; it is probably the most junior FA base in the entire system (NYC is pretty much every carrier's most junior base).

The addition of the daily JFK-ZRH this summer (in addition to daily JFK-FRA and daily JFK-TXL) has meant that Delta is quite tight on German speakers, at least at JFK. What this has meant is that those FAs who sign up for the German positions are now inevitably "assigned" (i.e., "forced" to fly their LOD routes in the LOD speaker position) this summer to either FRA or TXL or ZRH (i.e., it will be hard for them to get on other flights to other destinations).

Of course things will be different in the winter when ZRH goes away and both FRA and TXL see some frequency cuts.


25 USAirALB : I'm still in shock DL is ending LGW and FRA, they better make them seasonal or bring them back when the economy is better. Maybe they'll put a 777 on
26 LAXdude1023 : Dont hold your breath. The CVG hub is becoming history. AMS is also ending. Wont happen.
27 L1011Lover : Frequency cuts? It's worse enough they can't fill anything bigger than a 757 on the JFK-FRA route, now you are suggesting they go from daily to 6x or
28 Panamair : This is not new. Delta does specific day-of-week cancellations/suspension of transatlantic flights particularly during the deep winter period (mid-Ja
29 Sirtoby : Well, I lived in Cincy for two years - Zinzinnati Oktoberfest is a funny thing, but if you ever experienced the "real thing", you wonder how they can
30 L1011Lover : Hi Panamair, and thanx for all the inside info. I appreciate it. I knew about how the integration of the PA FA's worked into the DL seniority list. I
31 Panamair : No, it's the NYC base and covers all three airports. There is no domestic vs international split either and all FAs can fly a mixture of internationa
32 Bobnwa : Since this discussion started because of the"tons of CVG DL German speaking FA's who might lose their positions because of the cancellation of CVG-FRA
33 L1011Lover : This discussion was NEVER started because of German speaking FA's who might lose their positions. My question was as simple as what they are going to
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