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Would WN Ever Start LAX-SAN?  
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

Some of the recent posts regarding AA's reduction in service in the West got me thinking about a short-haul intra-CA route that WN has not tried (to my knowledge) -- LAX-SAN.

I know there are significant capacity issues for WN at LAX right now, but if US ever moved out of T1, is this a route WN might try? It is short (109 miles), so CASM would be high, but as traffic grows ever worse between LAX and SAN, and the high-speed rail option remains a distant dream, I could see a time where it might (MIGHT) be feasible for WN to begin a "SoCal Shuttle". AA and UA offer dozens of flights daily on the route (through Eagle & Express), but I think most of those are for connection purposes vs. O&D.

Thoughts?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

Why?

There is not much of air O&D market between LA and SAN. People drive.

The reason UA and AA run dozens of flights is for connections at LAX. SWA has no need to feed LAX, as they connects SAN well enough to the remainder of the network.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 3176 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Why?

There is not much of air O&D market between LA and SAN. People drive.

Agreed, most people drive, and most of the remainder take a train (there are over 10/day between the two cities). But driving down I-5 is just getting worse and worse, and the train takes 3 hours (plus sometimes costs just as much as if you flew).


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

that trip on a 737? how would they make money competing with Skywest, the train, and driving

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

I can drive door to door to SAN for less then the time it takes to get to LAX and park, (40mins), check-in and wait for the flight(1hr), flight (20mins), rent a car or taxi it to my destination (30mins) plus have lots of money left in my pocket.

Its not going to happen. Its simply not a market people locally fly -- same as OAK-SMF, MDW-MKE, TPA-MCO etc..

At the end of the day, frankly one cannot beat the ease and convenience, can low cost of a car when traveling between such close cities. Come and go when you want, for a fraction of the cost of flying.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6311 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

In addition to what has been said already, which is all true, SAN and LAX are both sizable operations for WN. Many of the same cities are served from both SAN and LAX, meaning that without O&D traffic, of which there is little, you're basically doing SAN-LAX-MDW when you can just do SAN-MDW nonstop, or LAX-SAN-MCI when you can just do LAX-MCI nonstop...adds an extra unnecessary stop (and in the case with LAX, a very delay-prone one at that)

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

I agree with all the above, but I am thinking down the line (into the future). Like I said, Amtrak is currently doing 9x/day from Union Station to downtown San Diego (very near the airport in fact). They are charging around $70 for the round trip that takes almost 3 hours each way. Those trains are sometimes packed in my experience (especially on the weekends).

So, not everyone is taking a car.

This is all just conjecture and there are a lot of good reasons "why not" that have been listed above.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 5):
(and in the case with LAX, a very delay-prone one at that)

Statistics that I've seen say LAX is one of the least delay-prone airports in the country.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6311 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 3006 times:



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 6):

Statistics that I've seen say LAX is one of the least delay-prone airports in the country.

Pipe down there, don't use logic and fact to defy my experiences  Wink Don't you know this is a.net!

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 6):
So, not everyone is taking a car.

Between car and train, I think the market is very well served. Many of those people that go on the weekends are doing day trips, and the train is much more convenient for that...city center to city center without all of the early-check-in and security issues. Yes, the train station in San Diego is pretty close to the airport, because luckily the airport is pretty much downtown.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 2988 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 7):
Pipe down there, don't use logic and fact to defy my experiences Don't you know this is a.net!

LOL, sorry, I'll try to remember that going forward.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 2988 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 5):
and in the case with LAX, a very delay-prone one at that

Actualy LAX is one of the least delay prone major airports in the US.

Per DOT it is #4 out of 31 major airports for on-time performance ranking year to date.
http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_..._tables/2009_04/html/table_06.html



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 2849 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 7):
Between car and train, I think the market is very well served.

There are also about 18 Greyhound buses a day each way LAX-SAN. Fastest schedule 2 hr. 4 min.nonstop. Some have a couple of stops and take a little longer.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

In the old days, when PSA charged $6.35 for the flight, and there were no security checks at airports, and freeways and automobiles were not what they are today, and life was soooo much simpler, flying was the way to go. I remember the billboards that PSA put up -- I think there was one up the highway near Del Mar -- that said:

"If you'd taken PSA, you'd be there by now!
Electra-jets to LA.... 25 minutes
$6.35 o.w./$12.70 r.t."
(Or something like that.)   

bb

[Edited 2009-06-22 18:29:59]

User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 2576 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
I remember the billboards that PSA put up -- I think there was one up the highway near Del Mar -- that said:

"If you'd taken PSA, you'd be there by now!

In the early 80's PSA also had a billboard in the desert somewhere out past Barstow
that said: "If you'd taken PSA,you'd be in Vegas by now!"



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months ago) and read 2509 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
In the old days, when PSA

Keep in mind even PSA did not operate those flight primarily for local traffic but as part of continuation of other flights, particularly Bay Area-LAX-SAN.
Also its important to note, PSA which was based in SAN needed to position planes back and forth to SAN for regular maintenance and operated more LAX-SAN flights then the market ever needed (even L-1011s!)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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