HNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 721 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9486 times:
That's a pretty impressive beginning. It will be interesting to watch their expansion in the market. I would expect if these do well, the build up will be rapid and extensive.
Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 785 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9468 times:
Cant wait to see how FL reacts....let the MKE Beer Brawl begin LOL
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4351 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9406 times:
Interesting they avoided FL's STL route
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
Knope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2311 posts, RR: 34 Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9346 times:
Certainly Midwest will be affected by these routes, and MKE-MCI is definitely head-to-head with Southwest. But other than MCI, on none of the other routes is Midwest the top market share:
AirTran top market share:
MKE-BWI (monopoly)
MKE-MCO
MKE-LAS
MKE-TPA
Midwest top market share
MKE-MCI (monopoly)
USAirways top market share
MKE-PHX
As for avoiding MKE-STL, unless it picks up a lot for AirTran, it has been something of a dog so far from most indications. And this is the summer peak season.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 5524 posts, RR: 28 Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9346 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3): Interesting they avoided FL's STL route
I think MCI is the better gateway to the west (offering flights to PDX, SEA, OAK, etc) and flying MCI-MKE puts a little more heat on YX.
Excellent, I am excited! I am a loyal WN flier who has to frequent Wisconsin often for personal and professional reasons both, and am looking forward to another options besides YX.
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1362 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9164 times:
Has it been decided what gates WN will use?
As for FL, it seems like WN could have hit them harder if they had wanted to. For the most part, FL and WN coexist to florida and I bet they will to LAS. I wonder what will happen to PHX though as four airlines seems one or two too many on that route. FL for now has to be happy they didn't touch the core MKE routes like LAX, SFO, SEA, LGA, and BOS. BWI will now be overserved but FL and WN will both stay.
I think the most surprising thing is that WN isn't starting with DEN. I assumed they would have which may have knocked someone off the route. It is also surprising they went after YX right away at MCI especially if they are going to connect passengers to the west coast through there. Overall, it doesn't seem like WN is trying to knock a specific airline out of MKE.
Af773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2487 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9137 times:
I'm guessing this will finally end YX. No surprise that WN won't be doing MKE-MSP since WN already has MDW-MSP and WN would be competing with three airlines from MKE (NW, FL, and YX).
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12323 posts, RR: 31 Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9099 times:
Quoting Enilria (Reply 7): No DEN? Odd. How long till DEN gets added?
This is a good move by WN by not adding service DEN-MKE-DEN. DEN has too much capacity for WN and it wouldn't make sense.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Txjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9034 times:
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9026 times:
The only one that surprises me a bit is TPA. I never really considered it, but it seems like it should work nicely for Southwest. I like these destination, as it provides good routes East, West and South, and with proper timing will allow connections almost everywhere WN flies.
I'm not surprised to not see DEN on the initial destination list. I argued that DEN didn't make much sense and was blasted by many on here. Perhaps after a loyal following has been established in MKE we will see DEN, but WN for now is going after the lower hanging fruit while still providing connecting opportunities to nearly all destinations.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
Mke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2047 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8922 times:
Quoting FL787 (Reply 9): Has it been decided what gates WN will use?
They say there's room for WN in D, but I don't know where they'd put em. Gates E60-61 are the first that come to mind though. I'm told U5 won't be returning to MKE this winter so they're there if WN wants them. However, if they work from those two and then want to expand down the road they'd have the same problem FL had.
Quoting FL787 (Reply 9): FL for now has to be happy they didn't touch the core MKE routes
For now anyways...
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
Yx302 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 106 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8866 times:
WN will be using D51 and D53. YX offered up the gates as good gesture i guess. To me it doesnt seem as any one airline targeted, but the MCI flight definetly putting YX to the test. YX does well against WN in MCI so iam not realy sure whats going to happen here in MKE.
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2337 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8832 times:
A great start! WN is clearly starting with the primary leisure markets in mind, though BWI will allow pax to connect to the East and MCI most markets in the West and South. I imagine if things go well DEN (with a loyal following in place, I think WN can pull this competitive route off) and BNA could be the next logical additions.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
Luvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 415 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8775 times:
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 13): The only one that surprises me a bit is TPA
Not really; The start date is 10-31 just in time for the winter season and all the mid-westerners who head to Florida
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4351 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8781 times:
I love how WN leaks their scheds into OAG a day early I saw some of these this morning... I remember when they did this with PIT too.
Theres a bunch of frequency and time changes for all other cities too
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8721 times:
Quoting Luvfa (Reply 17): Not really; The start date is 10-31 just in time for the winter season and all the mid-westerners who head to Florida
It only surprised me because I had never really considered it. After I read it I thought it made sense.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 19200 posts, RR: 18 Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8431 times:
Quoting Yx302 (Reply 15): To me it doesnt seem as any one airline targeted,
Agreed. That said, I imagine this will have the largest effect on FL. I expect they'll cut BWI (just like they did when WN started DTW-BWI), and I wonder whether the "hub," which is already hanging on by a thread, can survive competition on a couple of westbound routes.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3774 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8396 times:
I'm posting this before checking the sked's but is this not the largest start-up this year, surpassing both number of flights and new routes from MSP, BOS and LGA?
Interesting. Desire by WN for YX's blood? Obviously the number of sun-belt destinations being high has to do with the time of the year, plus LAS and PHX are hubs that pick up many additional cities in California, etc.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 20062 posts, RR: 91 Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8376 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 21): I'm posting this before checking the sked's but is this not the largest start-up this year, surpassing both number of flights and new routes from MSP, BOS and LGA?
Just off the top of my head, isn't it one more than DEN was initially?
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 19200 posts, RR: 18 Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8376 times:
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3645 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8327 times:
Looks to me like a shot at YX instead of FL, or else it's quite a coincidence. With the precarious situation YX is in and the way they tried to beat down US at PHL when they were in poor shape, as well as the DEN build up when F9 was hurting (this can be debated whether it was aimed at F9 or UA), it seems WN is aiming at hurting carriers to finish them off. While I am pro-WN, it's an aggressive and brutal tactic.
Next flight: MCW-MSP-LAS August 18th.
25 Mariner: Except (a) Midwest has some very powerful backers with big egos and (b) if it was Southwest's intention to "finish off" Frontier at DEN, it didn't wo
26 RL757PVD: If they were going after FL's blood in MKE we would have seen DEN and STL, two obviously large WN stations that WN avoided for nearby alternatives. MC
27 Pilotfox: For those wondering about WN ticket counter space at MKE there was talk of them going to old YX counter space that was given up. The counter space giv
28 Enilria: If you mean in terms of profitability, yes. I don't think WN is making their recent moves for short term profitability. Entering DEN-MKE would have b
29 Atrude777: I picked up on that too, however every other city WN chose is served by FL as well. Interesting to me is, WN is not adding the midwest to MKE. I wond
30 Mariner: Yields might go down for some other airlines, but fares are already pretty low. There is already a revenue bloodbath at DEN. mariner
31 FL787: I definitely disagree with this. While FL gets a bad rep for pulling stuff rather quickly I do not think they will cut BWI because it's an important
32 Enilria: The fares have been LOW, though. We're talking $30 at times. Past tense. Now it will suck. FL's hopes in BWI are dimming with BOS and now MKE facing
33 FL787: I agree and that's what I was saying, that FL has a better chance in MKE against WN than they ever had against WN anywhere else. I just think they wi
34 HNL-Jack: Exactly! Build up a market with a following and then add additional, more profitable routes as appropriate. Can't imagine DEN and some east coast des
35 AirframeAS: Uhhhh.....Winter is NOT starting. Summer just started.
36 Smcmac32msn: He's referring to the fact that WN isn't starting til 10-31-09... the start of winter...
37 Atrude777: Winter will be starting when WN starts MKE, that is what I meant. Not right now. Alex
38 AirframeAS: I stand corrected on what you meant, but winter does not start until Dec 21st.
39 Iowaman: I certainly see what you are saying, but the amount of traffic to those cities from MKE is marginal, and WN the past few years has been aiming at big
40 ElBandGeek: It's very unlikely WN will seek much more than a token presence at MKE. They'll have flights to their major stations, but won't go far beyond that. Th
41 Smcmac32msn: Tell that to somebody in Wisconsin... Usually we plan our Halloween costumes to fit over snowsuits... Just because "winter" starts Dec 21st... doesn'
42 Cubsrule: Wasn't it also an important DTW route? It was arguably MORE important; DTW had much less n/s service. I could start up an airline at any airport in t
43 Enilria: I believe when WN Gary Kelly says "with limited growth we will look for unique opportunities over the next couple of years" that is pretty clearly co
45 MKENut: You are probably not far off on that line of thinking. Frontier seems to think this will happen. That is why they added another MKE - DEN flight.
46 JohnMKE: I'm wondering when YX will be offering up the rest of the D concourse.
47 Pilotfox: Flights are now bookable on their site.
48 Sflaflight: No FLL? I would have thought that would have been a no brainer. It really would compliment its MDW service.
49 Iowaman: Wow, The Internet One-way fares on MKE-BWI are $35 each way for a 2 hour flight. The eastern Florida coast has traditionally been weaker than MCO and
50 Iowaman: $35 to all non-stop cities from MKE until 11:59pm Friday, for travel between November 1 and November 18. http://www.southwest.com/landing/mke...903BAB
51 LoneStarMike: No, it's one less. DEN started with 13. (5xLAS, 4xPHX and 4xMDW) LoneStarMike
52 Cubsrule: If city A and city B are identical in all respects except that the competition is weaker at B, of course they should start B (and, FWIW, I wouldn't s
53 AWACSooner: Already booked tickets for me and the wife to fly MCI-MKE (will either pick up the OKC-MCI r/t tix later or just drive to MCI) on the 7-8 of November.
54 F9fan: I am a bit surprised that WN added MCI, and to a lesser extent, TPA. As someone else pointed out, STL made better sense since there are more mid-west
55 Enilria: I'm a little surprised as well, but the implications of the choice are deep. STL is a new and weak FL market. They could probably have easily uproote
56 Cubsrule: They may also expect FL to drop STL in the fall... I do. If they're going to "uproot" themselves, there's not much point in WN doing it for them rega
57 Smcmac32msn: Here's something I was just thinking about...... With everything happening in MKE the last month or so... will this get JetBlue more interested in Mil
58 Knope2001: MKE-MCI is hardly Midwest's best route. They largely use it to feed connecting and thru passengers (MKE-MCI west and MCI-MKE-east), and even with tha
59 Cubsrule: Those data should make it abundantly clear, I think, that WN isn't targeting YX in any serious way. I, for one, don't think they are targeting FL eit
60 Smcmac32msn: Ok, I didn't know they had finally gotten into O'Hare... Where is their gate?
62 Cubsrule: E8, IIRC (it may be 6, though). There's been some talk of them moving to L (former DL gates) and taking a second gate.
63 CIDFlyer: no he is correct, B6 only flies to O'Hare
64 Atrude777: No, he means ORD. Jetblue is at ORD now and flies n/s to BOS, LGB and JFK. Alex
65 Enilria: Quite possible, but STL is a better stop on the way to Texas and that is the primary unique opportunity MCI/STL offer them in MKE given that they hav
66 Atrude777: What is interesting is LGA, PHL and IAD are NOT being sold on www.southwest.com to MKE. I would have thought WN would have wanted to grab the LGA mark
67 Enilria: I agree. BWI should connect LGA? They needed to fly MKE-MDW to really connect it to their network, but that kind of route is not their style.
68 F9fan: I suspect it is the weakness of the MKE-STL route rather than the shortness that caused WN to go with MKE-MCI. It is about a 6:30 drive from MKE to S
69 Knope2001: Okay, show us anything which even remotely suggests that MKE-MCI is their most profitable route. The reason I posted local revenue is because "profit
70 Cubsrule: PHX and LAS are probably too far west to effectively connect to Oklahoma, Colorado, and Utah as well.
71 EXAAUADL: I think FL and WN seem to coexist at BWI MCI is better to connections to the west. STL really doesnt give them anything that MCI doesnt, except LIT a
72 Cubsrule: They coexist because FL stays off of WN's routes (outside of Florida).
73 Knope2001: Between them they serve 51 nonstop destinations from Baltimore. 33 Southwest serves (but not AirTran) 11 AirTran serves (but not Southwest) 7 which b
74 Cubsrule: Agreed. They didn't really give DTW-BWI a shot, though. It makes me wonder whether they're willing to even try to give WN a run for its money. I hope
75 Atrude777: Well, as you quoted me, STL gives a lot more then just LIT and CMH No Idea, it does not show on the route map as a n/s. Well, I am not concerned abou
76 AirframeAS: Oh. I thought he was still talking about WN. My bad!
77 Enilria: MobFlyer used to post a P/L for them using a reasonable methodology which placed it near the top. Unfortunately it's been a while so it's not still a
78 Steex: The only one on that list that really surprise me at all is LGA. They could certainly offer MKE-BWI-LGA connections, but may feel it's not worthwhile
79 Cubsrule: It was some time in 2009-- it was running at Christmas.
80 Knope2001: The MKE-BWI and LGA-BWI schedules almost make it seem like they are deliberatly not offering MKE-LGA service. Westbound Arrivals to BWI from MKE 9:30
81 Steex: Good point, I hadn't paid very close attention to the comparative schedules for those two routes. That means they fall into the same problem of not h
82 Knope2001: Apparently I don't know the difference between eastbound and westbound. Yikes. I don't think that Southwest is trying to do any favors for Midwest by
83 MSYtristar: Booking MSY-MKE on WN offers you three options: 1) MSY-DAL-MCI-MKE (6h45m total trip time) 2) MSY-BWI-MKE (7h05m total trip time) 3) MSY-MCO-MKE (7h10
84 Par13del: Or that is beng left for future expansion, does the LGA perimeter rule affect a direct flight?
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3334 posts, 
From Namibia, joined Feb 2004, 5689 posts, 
From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 4947 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 20062 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
