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Delta Suspends FOR, REC For The Fall  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32171 posts, RR: 72
Posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7035 times:

Delta will temporarily end all service to Recife and Fortaleza this fall.

Service to Fortaleza will end September 2nd and resume November 15th.

Service to Recife will end August 18th and resume November 15th.


a.
139 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1049 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6976 times:

Bad news indeed. How are the loads and yields of this flight? I thought that although not stellar they were at least decent.

[Edited 2009-06-22 18:31:45]


Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6949 times:

Bad news...

Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
How are the loads and yield of this flight? I thought that although not stellar they were at least decent.

As per DOT, DEC-08 numbers:

Route / Cargo / Pax / LF
ATL-REC-FOR - 0,2t / 568 pax / 65.3%
REC-FOR-ATL - 9,0t / 586 pax / 67.4%


Do anyone know if loads dropped on the first months of 2009?



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6842 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 2):
ATL-REC-FOR - 0,2t / 568 pax / 65.3%
REC-FOR-ATL - 9,0t / 586 pax / 67.4%

These loads aren't bad for the first month of operation. Who knows why Delta is suspending this route?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32171 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6812 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
These loads aren't bad for the first month of operation.

The loads are not bad at all, but they represent a total of 6 flights during the Christmas holidays.



a.
User currently offlineIlanbwoy From Jamaica, joined Feb 2009, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6736 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):

Interesting news. The current flight does a circle going to both places then back to atlanta. So is it going to be a turn around for the 2 weeks after recife ends. By the way, they only use the former twa757's with the winglets on this flight.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Very bad news but this clearly shows how hard markets are outside GRU and GIG. I am surprised DL will keep MAO which has more competition.

I hope AA is keeping its flights as scheduled in CNF, SSA, REC and MAO.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6684 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
MAO

AA don't fly to MAO.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6604 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
These loads aren't bad for the first month of operation. Who knows why Delta is suspending this route?

The problem is that advance bookings are very lower compared to previous year for all routes Brazil-US and US-Brazil.
DL is not alone, CO will reduce services during Oct/Nov: Less 1x/2x weekly IAH-GIG, less 1x IAH-GRU and up to less 4x EWR-GRU as per Nov/26 week.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 673 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

MAO has like 20-30 people each way usually on a 737-700. Really surprised they aren't axing this one. Some DL/NW execs must need to get to MAO for something!!!!!


CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6407 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Too bad these flights are not working out for DL. Everyone is taking a really hard hit with the economy in the tank.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32171 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
I hope AA is keeping its flights as scheduled in CNF, SSA, REC and MAO.

AA is quite pleased with REC, SSA and CNF so far, and is looking to apply to at least two more destinations in 2010, probably FOR and BSB, but they have also looked at MAO and BEL. Although now is a terrible time to launch new services and Brazil traffic is becoming very soft, South America is one area where AA is aggressive and they realize the need to build the AA brand in FOR and BSB before Delta becomes too established.

[Edited 2009-06-23 01:07:39]


a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6202 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Tu154m (Reply 9):
MAO has like 20-30 people each way usually on a 737-700. Really surprised they aren't axing this one. Some DL/NW execs must need to get to MAO for something!!!!!

Should be better with overnight flights both ways.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6170 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
AA is quite pleased with REC, SSA and CNF so far, and is looking to apply to at least two more destinations in 2010, probably FOR and BSB, but they have also looked at MAO and BEL. Although now is a terrible time to launch new services and Brazil traffic is becoming very soft, South America is one area where AA is aggressive and they realize the need to build the AA brand in FOR and BSB before Delta becomes too established.

It's good to see AA with big plans for Brazilian territory, although, was you mentioned, we are living a delicated moment for start-ups.... I'd say all of these 4 cities could be served... BEL, which isn't served by any carrier non-stop to USA, was once linked with MIA by RG with 762..



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16925 posts, RR: 48
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
Who knows why Delta is suspending this route?

Because they're doing terrible.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
CO will reduce services during Oct/Nov: Less 1x/2x weekly IAH-GIG, less 1x IAH-GRU and up to less 4x EWR-GRU as per Nov/26 week

EWRGRU is daily; DL has reduced GRUJFK to 5x and will probably reduce it further

[Edited 2009-06-23 06:02:15]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6115 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Because they're doing terrible.

Have any info about LF numbers and yields for 1Q09?



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6116 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
EWRGRU is daily; DL has reduced GRUJFK to 5x and will probably reduce it further

So please try to find flights on CO.com for the week of November 26.
At least now, there's no service to Sao Paulo at all on Nov 25, neither from EWR on Nov 26, 24 or 23.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16925 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6088 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
So please try to find flights on CO.com for the week of November 26.
At least now, there's no service to Sao Paulo at all on Nov 25, neither from EWR on Nov 26, 24 or 23.

Look at the week before and after; it's just a one week anomaly, probably for Thanksgiving.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 15):
Have any info about LF numbers and yields for 1Q09?

It's so good they've suspended it. Yeah sure



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

Indeed, it seems CO reductions are restricted to one week perhaps due to holiday period in US. True enough it is not the first time CO takes such measure, but I would not be surprised to see more capacity cust ahead. Holiday periods normally lead to significant deline in yields.

Rgs,

[Edited 2009-06-23 06:31:18]

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6032 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
CO isn't cutting anything.

....yet.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5993 times:

Here we go with the AA bravada about how well they are doing... not unlike we saw on another new route which AA launched with fanfare only to have it suspended for the winter.


A little honesty with the current situation goes along way to establishing and maintainng credibility.

LFs for all carriers to Latin America stunk... there is absolutely no evidence from any carrier to say that Brazil is exempt from the same problems afflicting LatinAmerica.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16925 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5964 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
LFs for all carriers to Latin America stunk... there is absolutely no evidence from any carrier to say that Brazil is exempt from the same problems afflicting LatinAmerica.

DL is the only one suspending routes to Brazil, never mind Latin America



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5963 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
Look at the week before and after; it's just a one week anomaly, probably for Thanksgiving.

They had changed the schedule reducing IAH-GRU and IAH-GIG, but seems that they come back to regular daily services except for ThanksGiving week. IAH-GIG goes 5x on such week, IAH-GRU to 6x and EWR-GRU to 3x weekly.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 19):
...yet.

CO is in a better situation in terms of equipment and routes, i would say they enjoy the best routes. EWR brings size for their 762 flight, IAH-GIG is an oil route, IAH-GRU despite not so big in O&D as IAH-GIG, being a 762 can easily fill the plane.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
Indeed, it seems CO reductions are restricted to one week perhaps due to holiday period in US. True enough it is not the first time CO takes such measure, but I would not be surprised to see more capacity cust ahead. Holiday periods normally lead to significant deline in yields.

But before are more, i downloaded the last timetable today so i can't even generate print screens any more.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5931 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
Here we go with the AA bravada about how well they are doing... not unlike we saw on another new route which AA launched with fanfare only to have it suspended for the winter.


A little honesty with the current situation goes along way to establishing and maintainng credibility.

LFs for all carriers to Latin America stunk... there is absolutely no evidence from any carrier to say that Brazil is exempt from the same problems afflicting LatinAmerica.

A little honesty / acknowledgment from the DL bravada section would also be nice. We have all taken AA to task about their faults / withdrawals (especially in the Caribbean forum)



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

I'd take REC over DKR for ATL - JNB/CPT flights stop, but that's is my own opinion and not shared by everybody here. The good news there is that DL does have the frequencies to fly to REC now, but 5th rights between South Africa and Brazil, that's another thing. Be sure all flights between Brazil and South Africa will do well next year for the Football World Cup finals in South Africa.

ATL is "the" hub, but MAO, FOR and REC, DL can't hardly support flights to ATL, at least no more than thrice weekly and most likely red-eyes both ways (FOR/REC)..
Maybe if DL had tried REC and/or FOR from JFK (yes, I already know DL connections @ JFK are no-where compared to ATL) another would have been DL performance on those destinations.
IMHO, MAO is a tough destination for DL to keep, maybe it's the price DL is willing to pay to keep precious Brazilian frequencies on their side. The U.S. - Brazil bilateal allows U.S. airlines international tag-on to their Brazilian routes to several countries, sadly, it's very little and quite far - DL can tag-on from MAO in South America, because MAO location.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
25 C010T3 : Only VVI and ASU come to mind.
26 MaverickM11 : Both have a market size as larger or larger than any of the other Brazilian stuff they've started in the last year so why the hell not
27 Incitatus : WT you are a real funny guy. Accept reality my friend. Just because people can connect in ATL to Valdosta or Stuttgart (they cannot at MIA), it does
28 LipeGIG : It would be great to have REC as stop over, but the problem with the northeast of Brazil is the lack of a hub to provide good connections to places l
29 2travel2know : I was thinking even ATL-MAO-LIM, ATL-MAO-EZE or ATL-MAO-GEO to take low-yield passengers out of the non-stops. About ATL-MAO-VVI, I'm not that sure D
30 PRAirbus : Good news for AA! This would be a boost of traffic for AA services to the NE Brazilian region.
31 LatinAviation : According to the latest OAG schedule update I got, Delta is seasonally dropping the following: ATLARN (from Sept) ATLBOM (from Nov) ATLDKR (Sept) ATLG
32 MaverickM11 : Ironically they also applied for more Ecuador frequencies about a month ago.
33 Bobnwa : Yes Delta is seasonally dropping the routes. It appears to the the right thing to do in today's economic environment. The same with all the other car
34 MasseyBrown : CO is supposed to announce decisions regarding future flying in July, probably sometime close to July 21st, their Q2 earnings release date. Given the
35 Panamair : This is not seasonal; it is being moved up to JFK. This never started due to TSA security concerns, just like NBO. THis time round, this is a "perman
36 LatinAviation : Of course, if they're losing money on them they need to do what is right for the company. I never provided any commentary to the contrary, I was simp
37 MaverickM11 : Since most of them are very new, that begs the question how many were poor financial decisions to start, never mind suspend.
38 LipeGIG : Thanks for the explanation. Good to know that.
39 MAH4546 : JNB is now operated non-stop and all service to Cape Town will be discontinued in August.
40 MAH4546 : To add further, when starting in mid-December, FOR will only operate Tuesdays and Sundays and Recife will only operate Wednesdays and Sundays. 2x week
41 Bobnwa : Are you suggesting that the carriers knowingly made poor financial decisions to start as part of a plan? At the time the decision was made to start t
42 MaverickM11 : They've continued to expand well into the downturn, adding major costly routes as recently as the end of 2008. I don't think they really have a plan.
43 LipeGIG : "Hold valuable (?) Brazilian frequencies" Don't know how to do ? Don't do! FOR seems to perform better... but as i use to say, the problem with North
44 WorldTraveler : Let's wait about another month and see how the financial results compare between airlines - and we will also get RASM insight by region. For the past
45 2travel2know : Thanks for the info. Nice of DL to drop CPT before the Football World Cup in South Africa.
46 MAH4546 : AA opened three new European markets in 2008 - Barcelona, Milan and Moscow.
47 MasseyBrown : It may be partly financial - so long as they have some planned future service (whether or not it ever operates), they can avoid writing off capitaliz
48 MaverickM11 : Imagine how much higher it would be if they didn't fly half the bombs they've "planned". Imagine Pacific alone without ATLICN and ATLPVG weighing it
49 LipeGIG : It's good, it helps, but i begin to believe that without a smaller network to provide immediate connections, customers will continue to prefer to fly
50 DeltaL1011man : JNB is n/s and CPT is cut moved to JFK Wouldn't talk to much crap dude. DL still has problems. MXP,BCN,DME So you think start a whole bunch of citys
51 Panamair : Because of BSB starting and because they don't want to do the circle routing for FOR/REC. When both FOR and REC resume in mid-November, each will be
52 Klkla : That's interesting. I flew LAX-MIA-CNF a couple of weeks ago and there was only about 10 of us in Business Class both ways and barely half full in co
53 MaverickM11 : Give it another month or two and those will be reduced further. Despite AA/JJ/DL's attempts, Brazil is still very much a GRU/GIG game. Even GIG is hi
54 Incitatus : Airline success is not measured by number of new markets launched. The "valuable" frequencies don't withstand any kind of ROI analysis, even with the
55 Bobnwa : Be specific, are you saying they knowingly started these routes knowing they would be failures. come on, give us a break. And you and the other A. ne
56 MAH4546 : The loads have been strong: mid-60s during off-peak and low-80s to low-90s during peak. Also, you flew to Belo Horizonte a couple weeks ago. April an
57 MaverickM11 : I thought I was pretty specific.? They have too many widebodies and don't know where to send them, so they just throw them at big cities from ATL and
58 Hardiwv : And we are still waiting for Amsterdam... Amazing numbers for MIA-GRU and all in B772 with F cabin! I still think that AA could keep one of the fligh
59 MAH4546 : But the problem with that is falling cargo demand no longer makes the flight viable. The daylight frequently went out with very light loads, and very
60 LipeGIG : I disagree about your opinion concerning to GIG. The city has delivery very good results to all it's operators nowadays. You can't compare the past w
61 Incitatus : There are different ways to explain airlines actions. Saying "Because of BSB" begs the question why BSB is figured at all. DL has 10 non-GRU/GIG freq
62 Bobnwa : I would say they were not the best decisions. Did these predictions of yours happen before or after the economic and flu downturns. you sometimes sou
63 Klkla : You're right in one respect... in that Miami is such a horrible station that if you miss a connecting flight (a distinct possibility) you won't have
64 JJ8080 : Regarding economy, I'd say we can't expect any clear improvement before early 2010.... I'm not aware of US carries cuts for other markets (Europe, As
65 MaverickM11 : Both--whenever the route was announced. It depends on the city. I think it does fine to MIA for example, but I think NYC is nothing but $400 roundtri
66 Hardiwv : Yields in MIA-GRU must be astronomical for AA, they need to dominate this market. This is AA priority.MIA-GRU is the single most important internatio
67 MAH4546 : Ugh...here we go again. LipeGIG shows absolutely no data that prooves this. All he has shown is a count of the reserved seats on the seap map! That i
68 JJ8080 : Surely they must know their own numbers for F, however, their decision make me think F numbers for MIA-GRU are high, something that surprises me a bi
69 Hardiwv : You are completely correct, TAM B767 is really outdated and offer no competition, especially with regard to premium traffic. I would certainly avoid
70 JJ8080 : No doubt, MCO's A332 on GIG-JGK and it's B763 on MCO.... Mainly now with AA dropping capacity.. This is correct, they must know what they are doing.
71 WorldTraveler : Despite what some people try to say, the evidence is overwhelming that Brazil demand is off considerably just as it is to other Latin markets on every
72 MaverickM11 : Doubtful. DL's foray into Brazil outside of GRU/GIG has been predictably disastrous, and people (shareholders) are probably beginning to notice and w
73 MAH4546 : I agree with WT that Delta will continue to hold on, but I agree with you that they will find little to no success. Delta had no business flying to R
74 Incitatus : You have consistently told a different story. You've written countless times that Delta is willing to lose money in secondary Brazil routes as a long
75 JJ8080 : I may be sounding obvious here, but I'd say it's a simple isue here.. It's just a matter of calculating how much they will lose with actual poor load
76 LipeGIG : This data can be confirmed by ANY AA employee with very small difference. Try it as you insist in diminish the numbers importance. As we all know i d
77 Commavia : Your simple story (you know - the one you've made up). You always forget that. The unbelievably comical nature of you making that comment - talking a
78 MAH4546 : No, it cannot. Seat maps do not reflect load data. Airlines are not stupid. I do not know why you continue to press this issue. There are other sourc
79 LipeGIG : Ok, that's your opinion and i respect.
80 Incitatus : I don't know why you are bringing this up. Fare buckets are even less reliable than seat maps, because of overbooking and other tricks airlines play.
81 MaverickM11 : Capacity to GIG is limited for a reason; if there's x amount of capacity and still bargain basement fares, the market doesn't need more flights.
82 C010T3 : The overcapacity is at GRU at the moment. GRU's fares are tumbling down and attracting passengers from all over the country, since flying REC-GRU-NYC
83 MaverickM11 : It's everywhere; GRU actually is flat to down in seats while GIG is up. But as you said, as the traffic dries up, however, those GRU/GIG seats start
84 MAH4546 : There is nothing to "get over." Seat maps show no strong correlation at all. There are numerous discussions about this on A.net forums which you can
85 LipeGIG : The reason for the limited capacity is only that all airlines try to funnel traffic thru GRU. It's not the interest of airlines to offer double capac
86 Incitatus : Wrong. Widely open flights will have lots of seats available and heavily booked flights will have few or none. Like I said, it is not overbooking onl
87 MaverickM11 : If GIG was such a lucrative underserved market the fares wouldn't be so low and carriers wouldn't be pulling capacity; if you take out US and CO, GIG
88 MAH4546 : Not at all, because some do, and many don't unless the passenger requests, like where I work. I'm not going to argue this further. Online seat maps s
89 Hardiwv : The same where I work. The travel agent for the company I work does not assign seats which you need to do at check-in or you have to ask (or in my ca
90 MAH4546 : Extremely unreliable. And then many airlines block out a huge number of seats for elderly passengers and elite that can't be reserved until check-in.
91 Hardiwv : This is correct again, for example, AF-KL always block seats (in all cabins) which can only be visualised by Elite members, while for non Elite membe
92 C010T3 : RIO-originated passengers pay the same or less for flights leaving from GRU as if there were no connecting flight or stop, but that does not work the
93 Incitatus : On some airlines like Delta those are clearly marked in the seat map. Anybody can see which premium seats are available but can't be selected. I real
94 C010T3 : Expertflyer.com differentiates blocked seats from the reserved ones.
95 Hardiwv : This is not the case of AF and KL which show the seat as taken (blocked). Only if you are Elite member you can visualise the seats. Rgs,
96 Yellowtail : And a bag full of darts
97 C010T3 : Expertflyer.com differentiates blocked seats from the reserved ones even for AF and KL.
98 MaverickM11 : You can connect to anything you want in both directions, but I don't think it makes a big difference since fares to GIG (and GRU) are so low lately.
99 LipeGIG : Agree 100% with you. Also fare buckets can be easily 0 if an airline decided not to offer some class fare or it's expecting aircraft change. That's f
100 Hardiwv : I have never used this tool, I was referring to airlines website and gave the example of AF and KL. Rgs,
101 MaverickM11 : I excluded the new nonstop entrants CO and US, but DL is running a 763 instead of a 764, UA is not flying GIG in SEP or OCT, AA is not flying GIGJFK
102 LipeGIG : 1- DL, okay is a downgrade during 2 months of IATA summer... but it's expected to be B764 for the winter, zero change. 2- AA flew GIG-JFK between Dec
103 MAH4546 : MIA-GIG has always been a daily 763 since launch. Oh please. Tell that to thousands upon thousands of frequent flyers who use fare bucket readings to
104 MaverickM11 : I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. I meant February. I haven't looked at any data past Feb. I think the numbers I have for the 763 seat count are
105 LipeGIG : Last year, same month, was the same. DL only uploads the B764 later in august. Ok. Maverick, i'm sorry to insist, but There's no down capacity: - AA
106 MAH4546 : You are looking at one day and multiplying it over a long time frame. Maverick is looking at an entire month and accounts for seasonal adjustments, s
107 MaverickM11 : Here is an average day in September--things that aren't daily are going to show up as a fraction of a plane, ie JJ GIGJFK 4/7*210. DL only flew 2 out
108 Hardiwv : Havent you forgotten to calculate CO IAH-GRU? This was an upgrade because the service used to operate via GRU in other words it will be an upgrade bo
109 MAH4546 : CO actually fills a local market need. US is overkill and I still think there is a good chance that US will cancel the GIG launch before the first fl
110 LipeGIG : Okay, so you exclude IAD-GIG and will not include IAH-GIG ? It's not about jumping a gun. GIG-USA per any source tool gives around 850,000 passengers
111 C010T3 : Airlines also take the competitors' planning in consideration. If there was a decrease in capacity, CO's service cannot be excluded, since it was alr
112 MAH4546 : Which would also mean DL exiting MAO, FOR, BSB and/or REC.
113 MaverickM11 : It's not there! UA flew it last year and is not flying it this year. Why? I just don't see how that could be possible if fares are so low. LAD is und
114 MAH4546 : It's not possible, and, as you say, fares proove it. The U.S.-GIG market has adequate capacity as is. US Airways is putting on too much capacity that
115 LipeGIG : Last year because of plane availability and strog demand they decided to begin the non-stop by September. This year will begin as usual on IATA winte
116 Incitatus : That is really debatable because of the variety of connections at GRU. A service that is ORD-GRU-GIG and one that is ORD-ATL-GIG may be similarly att
117 C010T3 : Delta knows that, after ATL-GIG was resumed, they managed to get a large chunk of CO's Texas and West Coast market. A good part of the market will no
118 Hardiwv : This is what I mentioned as economies of escale in aviation, which in fact benefits the customer - more service, more capacity, more schedule, better
119 LipeGIG : This is true Incitatus, but again, we've comparing Rio as a market against Brazil, which is not fair. I agree we can't compare only non-stop, but we
120 MaverickM11 : That would mean the disastrous Transatlantic, and to a lesser extent Transpacific, market is a better option than GIG. Not likely. Look, bottom line,
121 SurfandSnow : It seems like the U.S.-Brazil market still heavily revolves around GRU and to a much lesser extent GIG for the American carriers. It may be years befo
122 C010T3 : I guess you can continue to pretend that Rio is an isolated market.
123 Bobnwa : Don't the American carriers more than make up for it by the connections at their US hubs, which the Brazilian airlines do not have?
124 MaverickM11 : It's not--people aren't willing to pay for a nonstop right now; they'd rather go through GRU or they aren't going. If GIG is so underserved, where do
125 C010T3 : IAH and CLT are being introduced this year. Next year, we will probably see at least one daily flight to NYC. That's enough for now, so that the mark
126 LipeGIG : Maverick, the global traffic is moving down and you made a comment to looks like one place in special is doing bad than others ? IATA numbers for May
127 WorldTraveler : That's true about LHR for the UK, CDG for France.... but there are clearly opportunities for airlines to develop service outside of these major citie
128 Cws818 : I don't think it is quite so clean-cut of an analogy. First, Brazil is so much bigger than the UK or France. Second, many secondary French cities can
129 Incitatus : More and more it seems AA services to secondary destinations in Brazil will stick. More and more it seems DL services to secondary destinations in Br
130 2travel2know : That's exactly why CO, UA, DL and eventually US need to concentrate in specific types of passengers/connections. For Brazilian flights sustained prof
131 MAH4546 : The Brazilian diaspora in the Northeast comes largely from southern Brazil. Belo Horizonte has a large enough market for a flight there. I believe mo
132 WorldTraveler : And that would argue for even more air service to secondary cities in Brazil. Given that we are in the midst of a global downturn that is affecting f
133 LipeGIG : The only point is the lack of connections from these secondary cities. They've been unable to attract traffic from other markets.
134 Incitatus : Debatable. Not all secondary destinations served by Delta in Europe are served from Atlanta and Delta knows some of them will not work from Atlanta,
135 2travel2know : Delta flew some experimental international routes out of FLL once? Would a FLL-FOR work then? (But pretty sure FOR-FLL would be a little bit out of r
136 JJ8080 : This is something I though about... If DL's Northeast and MAO services were operated out of Florida, perhaps they'd be doing better.... And my bigges
137 2travel2know : If DL Northeast Brazil were operated out of Florida, my guess is that it'd be out of FLL. If a DL B737-700 had the range (lightly weighrestricted) to
138 JJ8080 : Well, FLL-FOR is a 3.007nm flight, considering both cities are at sea level, maybe their -700s, which btw are winglet equipped (improving range), are
139 EXAAUADL : No, bad idea. ATL-JNB is packed, by trading REC for DKR, all youll do is spill JNB traffic and pick up REC traffic. DKR is really a tech stop with ve
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