GetYourFlyx From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 18759 times:
I had been a bit skeptical about the 787 window shades and their ability to get dark enough (like the limits in self-darkening sunglasses). But this video demonstration of the new electronically dimming window shades at the Paris Air Show looks pretty slick.
The only drawback is that they take a minute and a half to go from full dark to the brightest setting.
Very good. This is one feature of the 787 I am uber excited about. I wonder if Boeing/PPG will develop a retrofit package for 777s and if this will be on the 748i? Will Airbus adopt this technology also? It would be nice.
AuroraLives From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 18416 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1): I just hope the F/A's never force the windows all the way dark. That will make me sad.
yeah... me too.. at least the paragraph under the demo video gives me some hope.....
"Flight attendants will have some control over the cabin as well. During a movie or as the sun begins to rise after a transatlantic flight, they'll be able to lower the brightest setting without eliminating the view for someone who would rather look outside"
Spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3249 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 18337 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1): I just hope the F/A's never force the windows all the way dark. That will make me sad.
And I hope they do. There's nothing worse than sitting in the middle on a long flight over water and that guy over by the window's keeping two shades open the entire time, flooding the cabin with light while everybody else is trying to sleep or watch a movie.
I realize some people like to look out the window, but it's no different than cell phones or anything else - probably 20% of people ruin it for the other 80%. That 20% just cannot seem to learn how to be considerate of others, so somebody ends up needing to make a rule that affects not just them but everybody else too.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26682 posts, RR: 83 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 18289 times:
I like it. Even at very "dark" settings you can still see a good deal of detail outside, so when the windows are set to "movie mode", passengers will not be looking at an opaque structure.
Also, with the likelihood almost all 787 customer interiors will have PTVs, there will be no need to darken the cabin as with the old CRT front projectors.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 18208 times:
Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 4): And I hope they do. There's nothing worse than sitting in the middle on a long flight over water and that guy over by the window's keeping two shades open the entire time, flooding the cabin with light while everybody else is trying to sleep or watch a movie.
You can always provide a solution for yourself and not blame anyone else for ruining your day... Wear sunglasses or an eye mask.
That said I never understood the whole sitting in darkness thing on an airplane. Unless it's an obvious sleep time for most people (a red eye or long haul north/south overnight flight)...why is it insisted that shades must be closed? If I takeoff westbound on a long haul at around noontime or early afternoon, there's no way I'm going to sleep as I am not tired...no matter how dark it is.
GBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 18088 times:
Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 4): And I hope they do. There's nothing worse than sitting in the middle on a long flight over water and that guy over by the window's keeping two shades open the entire time, flooding the cabin with light while everybody else is trying to sleep or watch a movie.
I realize some people like to look out the window, but it's no different than cell phones or anything else - probably 20% of people ruin it for the other 80%. That 20% just cannot seem to learn how to be considerate of others, so somebody ends up needing to make a rule that affects not just them but everybody else too.
You got it 100% wrong. People who want to look out can't do that if the shade is closed, but people who want to sleep can close their eyes (enough for me if I want to sleep) or use an eye mask.
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9212 posts, RR: 42 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 18075 times:
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 7): You can always provide a solution for yourself and not blame anyone else for ruining your day... Wear sunglasses or an eye mask.
Without wishing to get into the usual bun fight, I have to agree with you.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 7): If I takeoff westbound on a long haul at around noontime or early afternoon, there's no way I'm going to sleep as I am not tired...no matter how dark it is.
Ditto. If someone wants a night environment in the middle of the day, it's up to them. I don't think it's up to the rest of us to forgo natural daylight so that a few can have an unscheduled nighttime. That said, I do what I can to prevent the sun shining directly into anyone's eyes, whether they're trying to sleep or not. However, we don't expect the blinds to be closed during the day on a bus or train so I don't see why an aircraft should be any different. I guess some really do have difficulty sleeping in daylight but I don't remember ever travelling with anyone who did.
Flood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1052 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 17902 times:
I look forward to reading the first ever "my window was broken" post
Great technology and I do see its benefits, however I'd prefer the good 'ol window shade. I've often partially closed the shade just to block the sun shining in my eyes while still being able to see outside and look down.
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 17828 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1): I just hope the F/A's never force the windows all the way dark. That will make me sad.
and I'm 100% sure they will... it takes quite a bit of arguing sometimes to even let the window shade only a bit open now as it is. If they can force you to "close" it completely, they will.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 2): Very good. This is one feature of the 787 I am uber excited about.
And me, in contrast, will probably hate the 787 as a passenger just for this feature....
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 17797 times:
Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 11): Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I just hope the F/A's never force the windows all the way dark. That will make me sad.
and I'm 100% sure they will... it takes quite a bit of arguing sometimes to even let the window shade only a bit open now as it is. If they can force you to "close" it completely, they will.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 2):
Very good. This is one feature of the 787 I am uber excited about.
And me, in contrast, will probably hate the 787 as a passenger just for this feature....
I guess we can always get up and look out the door window...assuming that won't be darkened to blackness too. I usually do this on long hauls anyway to stretch my legs. Anyone know if the door window has this electrochromic shade too?
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 17735 times:
Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 4): And I hope they do. There's nothing worse than sitting in the middle on a long flight over water and that guy over by the window's keeping two shades open the entire time, flooding the cabin with light while everybody else is trying to sleep or watch a movie.
I realize some people like to look out the window, but it's no different than cell phones or anything else - probably 20% of people ruin it for the other 80%. That 20% just cannot seem to learn how to be considerate of others, so somebody ends up needing to make a rule that affects not just them but everybody else too.
Considerate? Wear an eye mask! What aviation enthusiast planet are you from? Isn't one of the prime thrills of flying to be able to look at the beautiful planet below, in daylight or night? I think it's more like the 20% of you -- plus a few lazy FAs who want us all to sleep so that we don't bother them -- who want a dark cabin spoil it for the 66% who are within 2 seats of a window. The fact that you equate window-peering with the use of obnoxious cell phones tells me you are out of touch! My opinion, I'm sure I'm not alone.
I do have an ominous feeling that FAs will enact ultimate control on the 787 and ruin it for us window lookers. Oh well, I'm not likely to fly in a 787 for probably a decade at least (that's a combination of delays, order backlog, and the usual routes I fly).
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19687 posts, RR: 56 Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 17675 times:
Quoting David L (Reply 9): However, we don't expect the blinds to be closed during the day on a bus or train so I don't see why an aircraft should be any different.
While this is true, the windows on trains and buses are already tinted so that not as much light shines through - I don't think airplane windows have the same level of tint, if any. And the sun is much brighter at altitude than it is on the ground, not to mention reflection off of clouds and such.
Which is why I don't think the electric tint on the 787 is a bad thing. But only to a point. Forcing window shades to complete darkness ruins the whole point of having a window seat, and I'll be very disappointed if airlines start doing it on their 787s. I don't really care for having nighttime imposed on me during the day - my clock gets all screwed up. And sometimes some really nice scenery goes by, and I like to be able to take a picture. And even if I'm not at a window seat, brightness outside won't keep me from sleeping if I really need to sleep.
But it looks like I won't have to worry about this for another couple of years anyway, so....
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Azhobo From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 17536 times:
Great sounding feature IMO. I am surprised by those that have not experienced these windows are already bashing the innovation, stating shades is their preference. They seem biased against the 787 IMO.
The nice feature is that you can have a full window view with the window dimmed and not blacked out when sunny. If it is too bright you had the option of lowering the shade down to block in coming sun, or you can now use these shades to reduce the blinding sun with dimming sunglasses effect. It also ought to reduce heat intrusion from sun side of the aircraft.
My question is, will you be able to look directly into the sun at full darkness without damage to the eye. I can imagine if it is comfortable to look at the sun directly, but damage could occur to the eye, there would be enough idiots that would do this despite any warnings they might have posted. This could be a potential liability to the design.
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 17499 times:
Quoting Azhobo (Reply 16): Great sounding feature IMO. I am surprised by those that have not experienced these windows are already bashing the innovation, stating shades is their preference. They seem biased against the 787 IMO.
Yeah, I can see from my comment above that I seem to be bashing. On the contrary, I think this is cool as heck! A brilliant (no pun intended) innovation. I'm hoping it will improve my viewing pleasure, and that others won't try to control it for me.
Quoting Azhobo (Reply 16): My question is, will you be able to look directly into the sun at full darkness without damage to the eye. I can imagine if it is comfortable to look at the sun directly, but damage could occur to the eye, there would be enough idiots that would do this despite any warnings they might have posted. This could be a potential liability to the design.
A niche market for 787 charters to view solar eclipses!
Inbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 838 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 17365 times:
Quoting Vasu (Reply 6): A minute and a half to go from dark to bright...?!
Give me a regular pull-down shade any day!
"Ladies and Gentlemen, your captain speaking....in about 30 SECONDS, those of you on the left side should have a fantastic view of the world's only 21-45year old, all female nude beach. "
Hmmm.....a minute and a half to full bright you say??
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9212 posts, RR: 42 Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 17336 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 14): While this is true, the windows on trains and buses are already tinted so that not as much light shines through
Most of my rail experience is, not surprisingly, in the UK and other parts of Europe and the windows aren't tinted heavily enough to make that much difference... certainly not a day/night difference. I did do the NYC-DC Acela run and NYC-New Haven and don't remember the windows being significantly dark. The vast majority of people have the sense to use any blinds or curtains to prevent the sun shining directly into anyone's eyes without depriving everyone else of the view.
From the rest of your post, it looks as though we agree entirely.
Quoting Azhobo (Reply 16): My question is, will you be able to look directly into the sun at full darkness without damage to the eye.
Unless they're specifically designed to allow that, I'll bet there's a warning to avoid it.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8737 posts, RR: 52 Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 17336 times:
I doubt the flight attendants will make it full dark. It will be tinted, but not completely opaque. If you really want to see outside, you can look out the exit door windows in the galley.
I for one though don't understand staring at water endlessly for hours in flight. The only time I got really excited and violated the window closed rule was when I was on a Lufthansa A340 and we flew over iceland and I could almost make out the entire country as we overflew it, which was really interesting.
Quoting GetYourFlyx (Thread starter):
The only drawback is that they take a minute and a half to go from full dark to the brightest setting.
I don't think that is a bad thing. It lets you slowly adjust to the light rather than get that sudden burst of light followed by the immediate slamming of the shade.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24 Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 17294 times:
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 7): If I takeoff westbound on a long haul at around noontime or early afternoon, there's no way I'm going to sleep as I am not tired...no matter how dark it is.
However, many passengers on longhaul flights from major hubs, regardless of the local time, are connecting from places all over the world, and for them it may be the middle of the night.
Smcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 17286 times:
Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 4):
I realize some people like to look out the window, but it's no different than cell phones or anything else - probably 20% of people ruin it for the other 80%. That 20% just cannot seem to learn how to be considerate of others, so somebody ends up needing to make a rule that affects not just them but everybody else too.
You couldn't be more wrong. Next time we're on a flight together can you bring the barf bags?? I get physically sick without an outside source to look at. Can I barf on you if you forget the barf bags?? Now which option would you rather have, windows open or barf in your lap.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
25 Mir: I haven't been on a long-range train for a while, but I do remember that for some reason, I have no problem without sunglasses on a train, but do nee
26 WA707atMSP: The latest (August) issue of Airways has a trip report about Air Mauritius, written by a former flight attendant. He says the reason flight attendants
27 AuroraLives: But what about the ships?? little islands?? icebergs?? obscure coastlines? On most of the northern Atlantic and Pacific flights you're usually close
28 Pnwtraveler: 1. Plane has not even flown yet. 2. Some people have their knickers in such a knot they are claiming they won't even fly on the plane. 3. And they hav
29 PlanesNTrains: I tried that on a daytime ATL-SEA flight and the person across the aisle - who had their light on and was working on their laptop - had a flight atte
30 Junction: Do people who want the dark cabins really get mad if a shade is ever put up to look out? When I flew from EWR-HKG in summer I was not at a window seat
31 David L: Plus interesting cloud formations, distant weather activity, ailerons, spoilers, wing flex and the clearest view of the night sky you're ever likely
33 Rampkontroler: I am with all of you who enjoy the thrill of looking out the windows. It literally makes my stomach knot up when the FA's make me put it down. I know
34 Cloudboy: Why do you think so many people are afraid of flying? A big part of it has to be with being enclosed in a tube with no natural light. I am surprised t
35 OA260: LOL... good riddance , one of the worst flights of my life. I think there is a happy medium. There is nothing worse than trying to watch a movie and
36 Flyboy2001: Well, that's the point, isn't it? These new windows will offer a middle ground between "I like my windows open" and "I like them shut". No need for s
37 IAirAllie: I had an NWA FA make me do it once on a daytime DTW-NRT flight I was in the very last row and the IFE monitors in my entire section were not working.
38 Sandyb123: Surely all 787 operators will have PTVs? The problems with light and movies was the old school CRTs hung from the roof. I really don't like this idea
39 Aviators99: Perhaps this technology will solve the problem of people who don't care about claustrophobics and other people who have health reasons to need the win
40 Pawsleykat: I have to admit, even though I've heard about it before and seen Computer Animated videos of it, that is pretty damn cool!! I agree. Calm down folks.
41 AFGMEL: Hear! Hear! My eyes take a while to adjust to bright light. Even making the morning coffee is done in the semi-darkness. Not to mention the idiot on
42 Mascmo: That seems like it could be a pain in the butt to fix if it breaks, but maybe not.
43 Pellegrine: Human nature. Get a few hundred people together in a toothpaste tube and of course there will be bickering. Can't let it bother you.
44 Flylot: ha, my thoughts exactly, that thing looks like its waiting to brake. My other thought being, how the hell do they do that?
45 Cloudboy: The good news is, if they loose power by default they will be transparent. But what I am waiting for is a glitchy window where half the crystals don'
46 F9Animal: I have had the opportunity to experiment with these types of shades before. They are really neat. I am excited to see it used on the 787, and future a
47 Tylerdurden: Eeeek! When I mistakenly get a window seat..the first thing I do is close the shade at the first possible moment. Just too much glare and heat. Only
48 Flyboy2001: Sure but then it'll be no worse or better than conventional window shades. At least this presents another option. What I'm actually hoping, is that t
49 PanAm788: I'm all for technology, but this looks like a giant waste of money. The airlines don't get anything out of it except annoyed pax and maintenance costs
50 Silentbob: First time I flew over the grand canyon the captain announces that it will be coming up on the right side of the aircraft in a minute or so. I'm sitt
51 Flyboy2001: But weren't the conventional shades identified as an undesirable maintenance cost and posts in this very thread complained about stuck shades? I thin
52 707lvr: Seemed much smaller to me. As important as these windows are to the prospective, if-we-live-long-enough flying public, I'd like to see something bett
53 IAirAllie: I would have promptly shown you the eye mask. I happen to like natural light to read by. I spend so much time in dark airplane cabins for work and fo
54 BWilliams: This is a big one -- even the electrochromatic mirrors used in recent vehicles are incredibly reliable, and I haven't heard of very many at all crapp
55 Babybus: Now don't call me a Luddite but I always think you should try and keep technology to a minimum. Window blinds do a good job as it is. Why change?
56 Brilondon: I agree. the 20% who want the cabin to be dark and the 80% who are board out of their mind and would like to look out the window have the whole exper
57 CXB77L: Like others have said, there is always the option of an eye mask in order to block out the light and get some sleep. How about being considerate to t
58 Scanorama: Hear hear! It irritates it so much when I am forced to put the window shade down completely when flying a daylight long haul flight (even when the su
59 ACFA: I sure hope this technology is reliable and it doesn't break down. Can you imagine not being able to darken your windows?
60 SpeedyGonzales: A quick check with my camera tells me that even at the darkest setting, 0,1%, there should be plenty visibility in daylight. You would probably need t
61 Readytotaxi: Okay question? Can they fit this to some/all of the cockpit windows on the 787? Would pilots want it? Can they see a benefit in this "option"?
62 Andz: It seemed a lot quicker in the video. When the guy from PPG said pull down window shades "in all commercial airliners" I thought of Ryanair and wonde
63 GetYourFlyx: I sped the video up to keep it short and to show the change. Sorry if that was misleading. It did seem to take 90 seconds to change in person.
64 GetYourFlyx: I was also curious if any of this technology would find its way into the cockpit. Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case. Using newspapers,
65 Type-Rated: If you remember the original L-1011 had polarizing windows. You turned a knob and a polarizing filter between the glass would gradually darken the win
66 Tdscanuck: Who says it's more expensive? You need to factor the additional part count and, most importantly, assembly and handling costs of the separate window
67 Cloudboy: You don't drive a car with one, do you? Those and even worse, automatic sensing rain wipers. I would be willing to say even that maybe mine just was
68 GetYourFlyx: Here's the video showing what will be new in the 787 cockpit window. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL7Cv_Tk85g
69 Pellegrine: " target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL7Cv...Tk85g Will the 787 cockpit windows always be YELLOW? Notable that Airbus chose the electrochro
70 Tdscanuck: Gold, technically, and yes. That's the anti-fog layer. Based on the tone, I'm pretty sure that guy was joking about the model. Tom.
71 Pellegrine: I have not noticed this on any other airliner. Unless it just isn't as noticeable in service in natural daylight. I suspect the indoor lighting inten
72 Cpd: There goes the nice photo-opportunities when flying over interesting landscapes. I very much dislike this idea - mainly for centralised control.
73 Jimbobjoe: http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-i...nergy-efficiency/smart-window4.htm Because it has no moving parts, it should prove to be a lot more reliable t
74 Tdscanuck: I can't think of any other one that has it offhand. As the guy in the video mentioned, it's used right now on fighter canopies. Although it's not as
75 Viscount724: There was a period many years ago (probably the 1960s or 70s or thereabouts) when yellow-tinted sunglasses were popular. The story was that they were
76 Pnwtraveler: Yellow tinted glasses that are polarized, really help in misty conditions or fog. It also cuts some of visual confusion your eyes experience with a li
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