Enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6129 posts, RR: 13 Posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10843 times:
The usual disclaimers. These are changes versus last week. Some cuts may be just seasonal, but in many cases I don't have time to research everything.
Plz forgive any typos.
AA
AUS-SJC CXLD 2 to 0 eff. 8/09
STL-CID CXLD 2 to 0 eff. 8/09
STL-CLT CXLD 2 to 0 eff. 8/09
STL-PHL CXLD 3 to 0 eff. 8/09
STL-SGF CXLD 1 to 0 eff. 8/09
STL-TUL CXLD 2 to 0 eff. 8/09
DFW-MOB 3 to 4 eff. 8/09
ORD-HSV 1 to 2 eff. 8/09
AS
SEA-SUN CXLD 1 to 0 eff. 9/09 to 12/09, then service resumes
SUN-BOI CXLD 1 to 0 eff. 9/09 to 12/09, then service resumes
BA
ATL-LGW CXLD 1 to 0 eff. 11/09, service showed as starting in 10/09 previously (?)
DL
ATL-DKR CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 8/09
ATL-SVO CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
BDL-JFK 3 TO 1 EFF. 9/09
BDL-MCO XFER 0 TO 2 EFF. 8/09 FROM NW
BOS-PBI XFER 0 TO 1 EFF. 9/09 FROM NW
BOS-TPA XFER 0 TO 1 EFF. 9/09 FROM NW
CLE-SLC CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
CVG-FRA CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 8/09
CVG-LGW CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 8/09
DCA-RDU CXLD 4 TO 0 EFF. 8/09
JFK-BOM new 0 TO 5/WEEK EFF. 10/09
JFK CHANGES EFF. 9/09
JFK-ALB 3 TO 1
JFK-BDL 3 TO 1
JFK-BGR 3 TO 2
JFK-BNA 3 TO 4
JFK-CLT 4 TO 3
JFK-CMH 3 TO 2
JFK-DCA 6 TO 5
JFK-DTW XFER 2 TO 0 TO NW
JFK-BTV 4 TO 3
JFK-BWI 4 TO 2
JFK-EDI 1 TO 0
JFK-IAD 4 TO 1
JFK-MEM XFER 1 TO 0 TO NW
JFK-MIA 3 TO 4
JFK-ORD 5 TO 4
JFK-ORF 4 TO 3
JFK-PHL 2 TO 1
JFK-PWM 4 TO 3
JFK-RIC 4 TO 3
JFK-ROC 4 TO 3
JFK-STL 2 TO 1
JFK-SYR 4 TO 3
JFK-TPA 2 TO 1
F9
DEN-GJT CXLD 2 to 0 eff. 9/09
DEN-ELP CXLD 2 to 0 eff. 9/09
NK
SJU-FLL 2 TO 4 EFF. 9/09
LGA-FLL 7 TO 9 EFF. 11/09
NW
BHM-MSP NEW 0 TO 1 EFF. 9/09
MEM-EVV CXLD 2 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
MEM-IAD CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
MEM-YYZ CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
LAN-MSP CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
MSP-PSC CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
PD
BOS-YTZ NEW 0 TO 2 EFF. 9/09
US
SAV/MVY/BGR-LGA FALL GAP IN SERVICE FILLED IN FOR OCT/NOV
DCA-RSW START DATE MOVED FROM NOV TO DEC
WN
BNA-SEA CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 11/09
BWI-MKE NEW 0 TO 3 EFF. 11/09
CMH-PHL CXLD 2 TO 0 EFF. 11/09
SAT-PHL CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 11/09
LAS-MKE NEW 0 TO 2 EFF. 11/09
MCI-MKE NEW 0 TO 3 EFF. 11/09
MCO-MKE NEW 0 TO 2 EFF. 11/09
PHX-MKE NEW 0 TO 1 EFF. 11/09
TPA-MKE NEW 0 TO 1 EFF. 11/09
SLC-STL CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 11/09
WHOLE LIST (FLIGHTS ARE ROUNDED OVER A WEEK)
ABQ-BWI 2 TO 1
ABQ-SAN 3 TO 2
ALB-BWI 6 TO 5
ALB-MCO 2 TO 3
BDL-MCO 2 TO 3
BNA-JAX 4 TO 3
BNA-LAS 3 TO 2
BNA-MCI 4 TO 3
BNA-MSY 2 TO 3
BNA-OAK 1 TO 0
BNA-SEA 1 TO 0
BOI-SLC 3 TO 2
BUF-BWI 7 TO 6
BUF-LAS 2 TO 1
BUF-TPA 1 TO 2
BUR-SJC 9 TO 8
BUR-SMF 9 TO 8
BWI-ABQ 2 TO 1
BWI-ALB 6 TO 5
BWI-BUF 7 TO 6
BWI-DEN 4 TO 3
BWI-LAS 3 TO 2
BWI-MKE 0 TO 3
BWI-RSW 2 TO 1
BWI-SDF 4 TO 3
CMH-MCO 2 TO 3
CMH-PHL 2 TO 0
DEN-BWI 4 TO 3
DEN-MCO 2 TO 3
DEN-PHL 2 TO 3
ELP-SAT 4 TO 3
FLL-ISP 2 TO 3
FLL-MDW 3 TO 4
FLL-MSY 1 TO 2
FLL-PVD 2 TO 1
ISP-FLL 2 TO 3
ISP-PBI 2 TO 3
JAX-BNA 4 TO 3
JAX-PHL 2 TO 1
LAS-BNA 3 TO 2
LAS-BUF 2 TO 1
LAS-BWI 3 TO 2
LAS-MDW 9 TO 8
LAS-MKE 0 TO 2
LAS-OMA 3 TO 2
LAS-ONT 9 TO 8
LAS-RDU 2 TO 1
LAS-RNO 11 TO 10
LAS-SEA 4 TO 3
LAS-SLC 7 TO 6
LAS-TPA 1 TO 2
LAX-SLC 4 TO 3
MCI-BNA 4 TO 3
MCI-MKE 0 TO 3
MCI-PHX 3 TO 2
MCI-SAN 1 TO 2
MCO-ALB 2 TO 3
MCO-BDL 2 TO 3
MCO-CMH 2 TO 3
MCO-DEN 2 TO 3
MCO-MKE 0 TO 2
MCO-PIT 3 TO 2
MCO-PVD 5 TO 4
MCO-STL 4 TO 3
MDW-FLL 3 TO 4
MDW-LAS 9 TO 8
MDW-PDX 2 TO 1
MDW-SEA 3 TO 2
MHT-PHL 5 TO 5
MHT-TPA 1 TO 2
MKE-BWI 0 TO 3
MKE-LAS 0 TO 2
MKE-MCI 0 TO 3
MKE-MCO 0 TO 2
MKE-PHX 0 TO 1
MKE-TPA 0 TO 1
MSY-BNA 2 TO 3
MSY-FLL 1 TO 2
OAK-BNA 1 TO 0
OAK-SEA 7 TO 6
OAK-SLC 4 TO 3
OMA-LAS 3 TO 2
ONT-LAS 9 TO 8
PBI-ISP 2 TO 3
PBI-PHL 1 TO 2
PDX-MDW 2 TO 1
PDX-RNO 3 TO 2
PDX-SMF 6 TO 6
PHL-CMH 2 TO 0
PHL-DEN 2 TO 3
PHL-JAX 2 TO 1
PHL-MHT 5 TO 5
PHL-PBI 1 TO 2
PHL-PHX 2 TO 1
PHL-SAT 1 TO 0
PHX-MCI 3 TO 2
PHX-MKE 0 TO 1
PHX-PHL 2 TO 1
PIT-MCO 3 TO 2
PVD-MCO 5 TO 4
RDU-LAS 2 TO 1
RNO-LAS 11 TO 10
RNO-PDX 3 TO 2
RSW-BWI 2 TO 1
SAN-ABQ 3 TO 2
SAN-MCI 1 TO 2
SAT-ELP 4 TO 3
SAT-PHL 1 TO 0
SDF-BWI 4 TO 3
SEA-BNA 1 TO 0
SEA-LAS 4 TO 3
SEA-MDW 3 TO 2
SEA-OAK 7 TO 6
SEA-SJC 3 TO 2
SJC-BUR 9 TO 8
SJC-SEA 3 TO 2
SLC-BOI 3 TO 2
SLC-LAS 6 TO 6
SLC-LAX 4 TO 3
SLC-OAK 4 TO 3
SLC-STL 1 TO 0
SMF-PDX 7 TO 6
STL-MCO 4 TO 3
STL-SLC 1 TO 0
TPA-BUF 1 TO 2
TPA-LAS 1 TO 2
TPA-MHT 1 TO 2
TPA-MKE 0 TO 1
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10801 times:
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter): JFK-ALB 3 TO 1
JFK-BDL 3 TO 1
JFK-BGR 3 TO 2
JFK-BNA 3 TO 4
JFK-CLT 4 TO 3
JFK-CMH 3 TO 2
JFK-DCA 6 TO 5
JFK-DTW XFER 2 TO 0 TO NW
JFK-BTV 4 TO 3
JFK-BWI 4 TO 2
JFK-EDI 1 TO 0
JFK-IAD 4 TO 1
JFK-MEM XFER 1 TO 0 TO NW
JFK-MIA 3 TO 4
JFK-ORD 5 TO 4
JFK-ORF 4 TO 3
JFK-PHL 2 TO 1
JFK-PWM 4 TO 3
JFK-RIC 4 TO 3
JFK-ROC 4 TO 3
JFK-STL 2 TO 1
JFK-SYR 4 TO 3
JFK-TPA 2 TO 1
thats not good.
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter): ATL-DKR CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 8/09
ATL-SVO CXLD 1 TO 0 EFF. 9/09
these two are seasonal.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
Where did this one come from? Was this expected because I don't recall hearing anything about this one? Also, is this a season discontinuation or permanent?
This is very interesting with AA making their Moscow route seasonal just recently. I wonder if UA's IAD-DME is next go.
SNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10795 times:
Almost makes me wonder if it is a filing error. All that stuff does not resume either. It appears permanent.
Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 2): Also, is this a season discontinuation or permanent?
I believe a.net discussions have said it is a seasonal cut.
Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 3): It still shows in PARS and I think the flight has been performing well now that they have timed the returing flight to fit more connections.
Who knows. NW and DL have been yo-yo-ing their schedules for a few months. It could be gone or not gone. I just know they deleted it from OAG this week. They could have added it back 5 minutes after I downloaded my update.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10672 times:
Quoting Enilria (Reply 4): Almost makes me wonder if it is a filing error. All that stuff does not resume either. It appears permanent.
Quoting Enilria (Reply 4): Who knows. NW and DL have been yo-yo-ing their schedules for a few months. It could be gone or not gone. I just know they deleted it from OAG this week. They could have added it back 5 minutes after I downloaded my update.
This is a good point. IMO wait a few weeks to see if these changes don't get changed.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
LAXdude1023 From Lebanon, joined Sep 2006, 6776 posts, RR: 25 Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10624 times:
Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 2): This is very interesting with AA making their Moscow route seasonal just recently. I wonder if UA's IAD-DME is next go.
I just flew ORD-DME on AA. There were 70 people on the entire plane. I flew in J and there were 7 of us total. I chatted with 4 of them and they all used miles to get into J. At the same time we arrived, SQ's IAH-DME flight arrived. There were maybe 10 people from that flight going through customs in Russia, everyone else proceded to the transit lounge. This doesnt mean much because its anecdotal, but I think Russia traffic has fallen on very hard times.
DFW Fan Boy: Im crude, irreverent, and blunt, but Im not clueless. I offer no apologies.
SlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2450 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10622 times:
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4716 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10513 times:
AA has cancelled SAN-SJC (eff 8/25) and SAN-BOS (eff 11/19).
DL has also reduced SAN-JFK to 1 flight (from 2) in the fall.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31103 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10507 times:
AA has also done the following at MIA eff. 19NOV
MIA-CUR 1 to 2
MIA-DTW 1 to 2
MIA-GCM 2 to 3
MIA-GRU 3 to 23w
MIA-GUA 2 to 3
MIA-IAD 1 to 2
MIA-LAS 2 to 3
MIA-LHR 1 to 10w
MIA-LIR 1 to 11w
MIA-PHX 0 to 1
MIA-PLS 2 to 3
MIA-PTY 2 to 3
MIA-PUJ 2 to 3
MIA-STX 1 to 10w
MIA-SXM 1 to 2
MIA-TPA 5 to 6
MIA-UVF 1 to 2
Sflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10382 times:
Also I notice JFK-MIA is up one this winter. I dont believe that was the case last summer. Am I correct?
If that is the case, this makes JFK-MIA the most DL has seen in a while, if ever. Originally JFK-MIA was just a feeder to the hub. At first just served with RJs, then mix mainline RJs to just mainline. Either three things are happening. One - DL is finally going after more local NYC-MIA traffic. Two - DL has really become number 2 at MIA and is trying to solidify that position or three - answering rumors that another airline is interested in focusing at MIA and DL wants first dips typical NW agressive marketing. What do you guys think?
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21206 posts, RR: 19 Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10333 times:
It's not-- the TATL operation at JFK has gotten large enough and spread out enough (temporally) that 1 flight/day really doesn't cover the TATL connections anymore. It'll be interesting to see when these single daily flights arrive and if DL can make them work.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Flavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10224 times:
Could the DL pull down in flights be to help ease congestion and make room for the start of some construction? I mean there is a rough lose of around 22 flights, including the the few cities that have seen increase of service. Plus there is all the international suspension and frequency reduction. I wonder what the total net loss of flights per day will be this fall?
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10113 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11): It's not-- the TATL operation at JFK has gotten large enough and spread out enough (temporally) that 1 flight/day really doesn't cover the TATL connections anymore.
I believe there will be some consolidation, so that the TATL flights aren't quite so spread out for the Fall/Winter.
I'm not totally surprised by the cuts at JFK (if they are all real). With DL cutting a bunch of JFK transatlantic flights and with demand to Europe plunging, the demand for these feeder flights is bound to decline.
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 29 Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9942 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 13):
I'm not totally surprised by the cuts at JFK (if they are all real). With DL cutting a bunch of JFK transatlantic flights and with demand to Europe plunging, the demand for these feeder flights is bound to decline.
Most of those flights exist solely to feed international. With less international to feed during the off-peak season this year, there is less need for the capacity. The P&L's on most of these feeders flights certainly don't work without the international traffic. I'd expect to see some of the capacity back in the Spring when the international flights begin to return.
AV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1264 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9655 times:
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter): BA
ATL-LGW CXLD 1 to 0 eff. 11/09, service showed as starting in 10/09 previously (?)
IIRC this flight has already been switched to ATL-LHR.
EMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 635 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9655 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 13): Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
It's not-- the TATL operation at JFK has gotten large enough and spread out enough (temporally) that 1 flight/day really doesn't cover the TATL connections anymore.
I believe there will be some consolidation, so that the TATL flights aren't quite so spread out for the Fall/Winter.
I'm not totally surprised by the cuts at JFK (if they are all real). With DL cutting a bunch of JFK transatlantic flights and with demand to Europe plunging, the demand for these feeder flights is bound to decline.
Not only that, but I'd have to think that now with the joint venture in place that they can now route what they have to Europe on other flights or through other connection points such as DTW, ATL, and BOS...
Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
ATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9535 times:
I believe the MEM-JFK route will still be Mesaba but with a DL code and not a NW coded flight.
Surprising to see WN pull out of some PHL markets but then again with MKE ramping up they do not have spare planes sitting around.
JFK routes - wow. That's a lot of lost feed. Where are those planes going?
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 29 Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9483 times:
Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 17):
JFK routes - wow. That's a lot of lost feed. Where are those planes going?
AWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8908 times:
Where in the hell did NK get two more slots at LGA to add to their FLL run?
Sflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8857 times:
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 19): Where in the hell did NK get two more slots at LGA to add to their FLL run?
you beat me to that question too. Where did they come from?
MSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 699 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8856 times:
Glad to see MSY gaining 2 flights. Slowly but surely, starting to build up.
Now if US would just put their 2 PHX flights back in!!
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11200 posts, RR: 61 Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8599 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 14): Most of those flights exist solely to feed international. With less international to feed during the off-peak season this year, there is less need for the capacity. The P&L's on most of these feeders flights certainly don't work without the international traffic. I'd expect to see some of the capacity back in the Spring when the international flights begin to return.
Thanks for the info. So it seems the JFK hub will be the first to disappear ? (Less feeding will probably lead to less and less services)
At least it's good to see more JFK-MIA service.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
AWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8498 times:
Almost makes me wonder if it is a filing error. All that stuff does not resume either. It appears permanent.
No filing error...the wife and I are flying ANC-PDX-JFK-CMH on 14 September and our schedule from JFK-CMH got all shot to hell cause of this change. Luckily, we still have enough time to connect.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): AA has also done the following at MIA eff. 19NOV
MIA-CUR 1 to 2
Well crap, coulda used this when I go home in August.
25 WorldTraveler: Any look at DL's JFK hub operations since it picked it up from PA in 1991 shows that DL has very different bank structures in the winter and in the su
26 AvConsultant: There is a thread stating Fitch has downgraded DL. The reports cites what DL is obviously taking action to reduce upcoming loses.
27 Jr: Are they moving this flight back from ATL to JFK? Any reasons for this? I wish they had better connections on this one to DFW!
28 DeltaL1011man: should be fun to watch. The RJs will likely go on the ramp at CVG Really i'd say they are beefing up some other routes more mainline and the RJs will
29 SANFan: Enilria, first, thank you for presenting these weekly summarys for us. This is my thing and I really appreciate the info. Just an FYI: your WN summary
30 CIDflyer: Just curious, is DL still cancelling CID-CVG and CID-ATL?
31 OA412: Yes. ATL-BOM will be discontinued and JFK-BOM reinstated. I'd assume that ATL-BOM lost money and that it made more sense to move the flight to JFK wh
33 CIDflyer: " target=_blank>http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pb.../1007 Dang, thanks MAH, guess I should have opened up todays paper. Hopefully we'll get ATL ba
34 Cubsrule: They'd be wise to take all of the flight to places that don't have a whole lot of service from the States and consolidate those in a single bank. DL
35 Enilria: I seriously doubt that is the actual motivation. I'm sure it is economic. That was my thought, but LGA slots are available for short periods. They co
36 MAH4546: Spirit has added two extra daily FLL-LGA flights every year for, well, I don't know how long, but for a very long time. It has always been 6x daily d
37 SWA TPA: Unfortunately its not a filing error. We at Comair have been told for a few months now to expect big cutbacks in the fall and possibly more furloughs.
38 Enilria: Perhaps but that doesn't explain where the slots come from. Odd that something that big has not gotten some press.
39 Jetlanta: It's really not that big, in relation to Delta's size. And the 10% capacity cut did get a lot of press two weeks ago. These RJ markets are just not i
40 AAtakeMeAway: I guess F9 is pulling out of ELP... That's too bad. Somewhere else I saw UAX is adding ELP-ORD -- I hope this doesn't affect AA's ELP-ORD mainline.
41 Quickmover: I believe this is a Lynx Q400 route. They probably have other shorter flights that could use the plane rather than running all the way down to ELP. D
42 Cubsrule: ...which brings us squarely back to the question of whether 1x daily flights to JFK are tenable. I think it's possible to make them work, but I don't
43 Enilria: I agree that it probably hasn't been noticed, but it is still newsworthy. If it were it's own thread a newspaper might see it and print an article. I
44 CIDflyer: unfortunately it appears AA is dropping all mainline and going to 2x CR7 with Eagle on this route (ORD-ELP) it was in this thread AA To AAbandon ORD?
45 Cubsrule: I guess I'm wondering, then, whether it's even worth keeping that toe in the water. All of those cities are decently large DL stations, and several o
46 Enilria: I haven't done an analysis, but I'm assuming that Amsterdam/London/Paris/etc. still connect. That's what they are preserving. JFK has never been a pl
47 Cubsrule: What makes you say that? DL's strategy for the past few years - a good one, IMO - has been to discourage connections to larger European markets over
48 EXAAUADL: Why does DL need to fly MIA-JFK 4x daily?? I would just connect it to JFK international banks. Maybe AA has cut JFK-MIA back too much
49 MIASkies: DL and AA have co existed on this route for a while now. First DL started flying the route with CR7's then upgraded to MD-88's and now have added mor
50 MAH4546: Why not? Miami is the second largest termination point for European-originating traffic in the United States and JFK is a big European hub for Delta;
51 TUSAA: The two ORD-ELP CR7's appeard in the winter skeds briefly' but were removed and replaced with a single daily ORD-ELP MD-80 flight' down from two dail
52 OA412: Because it makes sense for them to do so and because they've decided that this is the number of frequencies they wish to operate in the market.
53 Enilria: Most of what was cut, though, was Northeast. It's the only hub without with a backhaul.
54 EXAAUADL: Probably one 1-2 flights connect to Europe. I can see the Europe connection, but DL has no strength at all in MIA. I would bet DL loses money flying
55 Cubsrule: It's about half and half (depending on where you cut off the northeast)... ALB BDL BGR BTV PHL PWM ROC SYR BWI DCA IAD BNA CLT CMH MIA ORD ORF RIC ST
56 Enilria: OK, but JFK is the best hub for Europe for a fair number of those.
57 Cubsrule: Agreed, though most have PHL and/or EWR service and a handful (ALB, BDL, BTV) are within a reasonable drive of a city with TATL service.
58 OA412: "Seems to be" and "I bet" say nothing. Do you have actual numbers that show that DL loses money on JFK-MIA? If not, on what do you base the fact that
59 MAH4546: This winter Delta will have around two dozen daily flights, only two of which will be on RJs. They are the second largest airline at MIA, the recentl
60 OA412: Interesting. I'm assuming it will be MIA-AMS on a 763.
61 Enilria: JFK-ALB 3 TO 1 JFK-BDL 3 TO 1 JFK-IAD 4 TO 1 JFK-PHL 2 TO 1 JFK-STL 2 TO 1 JFK-TPA 2 TO 1 This thread of conversation was really about how I thought
62 WhatUsaid: Just noticed that American Eagle is going from 5X to 7X daily to LAX.
63 FATFlyer: I assume you mean FAT-LAX? Interesting.
64 WhatUsaid: The hike in LAX service begins the day after the 3rd flight to DFW ends. That 4pm on mainline to DFW was DOA. Not sure about the hourly lift over a t
65 Cubsrule: IAD and PHL are themselves TATL hubs... No one in those markets is going to sit at JFK for 5 hours to fly to MAD unless the fare is REALLY good.
66 EXAAUADL: But NYC-MIA isnt JFK-MIA, it isnt a single OD. LAX-SFO isnt the largest OD either. HNL-OGG use to be the largest passenger, but it may not be anymore
67 MAH4546: Why are you rambling about semantics that don't change the facts? The single largest O&D city pair in the United States is Miami-New York City. The s
68 Jetlanta: Yes. Only you know the answers. And clearly you should, since you seem to have worked at each and every one of them. On the other hand, some might su
69 PGNCS: Echoing OA412, please show us quantifiable data supporting your contention. How is it you have more insight into this particular market than all of D
70 Enilria: Really? I didn't know those were hubs. Clearly I meant Delta hubs...and yes people do connect from PHL to JFK to Europe. The local market is almost n
71 Jetlanta: You are completely correct. Those flights exist solely to feed international.
72 Usairways85: Yes, however DL will cut JFK-PHL to 1x daily, down from 3x daily. We all know these flights are for international feed so clearly they expect fewer c
73 Cubsrule: Correct, and that's the problem, as I see it, with these cuts. Rather than being able to connect to just about any TATL flight, people's options are
74 Jetlanta: Cubs, I think you are making a bad assumption here. I haven't seen the final T/A schedules, but typically when they pull back capacity this dramatica
75 Cubsrule: How many TATL flights will they have over the winter?
76 Enilria: Thanks for the help! True, but even if there was some tiny local market a one flight per day schedule will kill that as well. It's Winter plus the ec
77 Cubsrule: How do we explain the 752 on JFK-FRA and the widebodies from the other hubs, then? Seems like DL only routes the bare minimum number of connections t
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