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Does UA Fly To MNL Still? If Not Why?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Does UA fly to MNL still? If not why? When did they cut it? Any chance of resuming service?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5873 times:



Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Does UA fly to MNL still?

no

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
If not why?

low margins

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
When did they cut it?

>10 years ago

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Any chance of resuming service?

not likey, margins are still low, NW does well because of cargo

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2870 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5734 times:



Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Does UA fly to MNL still?

UA used to fly from MNL to SEL (Seoul's Gimpo airport) and then on to San Francisco, but that route is LONG gone.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
If not why?

I'm guessing UA never had authority to fly MNL-NRT, so they were forced to route the flight through Seoul (a relatively weak station - only NRT and HKG have consistently supported UA's intra-Asian flights) instead of the Narita minihub. If I had to guess I'd imagine the Asian Financial Crisis (both South Korea and the Philippines were hit very hard) was the end of Manila ops for UA.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
When did they cut it?

I don't think they have flown that route for at least 10-15 years. Manila would be one of the only Asian cities that was entirely dropped from the UA network.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Any chance of resuming service?

Doubtful. I would imagine Philippine Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, and Northwest/Delta have the U.S.-Manila market very well covered. PAL already flies to MNL from SFO. UA can easily just codeshare with ANA through NRT or Asiana through ICN to get pax to Manila rather than flying there itself. Also, remember that the ONLY non-Asian carriers serving MNL are Hawaiian Airlines, Continental Micronesia, Northwest/Delta, Qantas, and KLM. Clearly, UA has bigger fish to fry than the small, low-yielding Filipino market.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

99% Of MNL traffic is VFR (Visiting Family Members) of the few Biz pax NW can serve it well from NRT then throw in other NW flights HA PAL and CO and not much room for new entries..

For HA its a 10 Hour flight HNL-MNL for about $500 RT so I dont see how they can make money...

For the PAX MNL is one of the best long haul dals out there...but bad for the airlines


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5652 times:
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Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
UA can easily just codeshare with ANA through NRT or Asiana through ICN to get pax to Manila rather than flying there itself

actually I dont think that NH fly to MNL , but I agree with your point that UA can serve it through their partners more effeciently than they could serve it themselves



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

601.70 Including Tax

DEPARTING
Thursday October 01, 2009
Manila, Philippines to Oahu - Honolulu
MNL to HNL, Flight HA456
7:00 PM - 11:15 AMRETURNING
Sunday October 11, 2009
Oahu - Honolulu to Manila, Philippines
HNL to MNL, Flight HA455
12:30 PM - 5:15 PM (next day)
Actual Price
Per Ticket $577.20
Price for 1 Passenger $577.20
Taxes & Fees $24.50
Air Travel Cost $601.70


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5960 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5569 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
I'm guessing UA never had authority to fly MNL-NRT,

UA has the route authority to operate NRT-MNL if they wanted to.

As others have mentioned its all about the yields out of MNL, they simply were not high enough to support UA operations even in the late 90s when the economy was doing reasonably well.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineSq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5518 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
ANA through NRT

ANA doesn't fly to Manila, which still baffles me. Why can't they at least support a B763 operation that connects to their North American wave of departures in the late afternoon!? I'd imagine those passengers coupled with Narita bound passengers would be enough to sustain the flights. I mean, JAL does a 2x daily 747 rotation - one of which is meant solely for traffic between the two cities! I don't get that as a Star Alliance member the only choice I have out of MNL to the US without going out of the way (SIN/BKK) is OZ.

Quoting United1 (Reply 6):

UA has the route authority to operate NRT-MNL if they wanted to.

They might have the route authority, but do they want to give up a valuable and expensive NRT slot for the low yielding MNL flight?



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

The United Manila flights were known around the system as Non-Rev Pineapple Express with often upwards of 50 Filipino staff members on board many originating from California or Hawaii.

The only positive business aspect to the flights were cargo particularly during the late 80s/early 90s when many tech companies had factories in the Philippines and were exporting across the Pacific. Even after MNL passenger flights were cut, it remainder as a UA network destination as part of the DC-10 freighter flying for a couple more years.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5443 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
The United Manila flights were known around the system as Non-Rev Pineapple Express with often upwards of 50 Filipino staff members on board many originating from California or Hawaii.

Wow had no idea! Lots of people must have been pissed when the flights were finally cut!



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17511 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5433 times:

Doesn't NW do 744 maintenance in MNL?

Quoting Cospn (Reply 3):
For HA its a 10 Hour flight HNL-MNL for about $500 RT so I dont see how they can make money...

It's not full either. I'm not sure that flight is long of this world.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5369 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
Doesn't NW do 744 maintenance in MNL?

Well LH Technik has an operation in MNL last I checked. That said, the 744s get in between 22:00 and 23:00 and leave the next morning between 07:00 and 08:00 so that doesn't leave much time for maintenance?



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25352 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5359 times:



Quoting Sq_ek_freak (Reply 7):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
ANA through NRT

ANA doesn't fly to Manila, which still baffles me. Why can't they at least support a B763 operation that connects to their North American wave of departures in the late afternoon!? I'd imagine those passengers coupled with Narita bound passengers would be enough to sustain the flights. I mean, JAL does a 2x daily 747 rotation - one of which is meant solely for traffic between the two cities!

NH is smart not to fly to MNL, a low yield, low profit destination. Let JL lose money on those passengers. NH has generally been more profitable than JL. This is probably one reason why. It's the same reason why all European carriers that once served MNL have dropped the route except KL.


User currently offlineSq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5248 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
NH is smart not to fly to MNL, a low yield, low profit destination

NH flies to virtually every other low yielding destination in South East Asia and seem to make it work, why not add Manila to that list, especially if they can time the flight to connect well with UA, AC, soon CO and their own bank of departures to a host of destinations in North America? It'd be pretty easy to do; have a 763 do an early evening departure from Narita after the early to mid afternoon bank of arrivals from the US, and arrive late night in MNL, then do an early morning departure to a early afternoon arrival in Tokyo - perfect for transiting on to the late afternoon/early evening banks to North America.

Do we know for sure that JAL is loosing money on their Manila operations? If they were their 2x daily 74E ops plus their NGO flight which I believe is a 763 could definitely be cut down if they just wanted to maintain flights to the Philippines. Is there a possibility that JL can maintain profitability on their MNL operations because of the cargo they carry in the belly? That said, if that were the case an NH 763 probably wouldn't suffice for the route.

As for the European majors - well they have the three Mid East powerhouses to compete with on Europe flights, so the were doomed in the very price sensitive MNL from the start.

Any news on Afriqyah's new flights to MNL? I highly doubt that flight will ever materialize, but still...



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

You can easily find the answer to your first question by visiting united.com. As to why, airline's cancel unprofitable routes.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

The reason that NW sends 2x 744 to MNL is because they do heavy maintenance there... Might as well carry some pax while they're at it.

User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2449 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5091 times:



Quoting Sq_ek_freak (Reply 13):
NH flies to virtually every other low yielding destination in South East Asia and seem to make it work, why not add Manila to that list, especially if they can time the flight to connect well with UA, AC, soon CO and their own bank of departures to a host of destinations in North America? It'd be pretty easy to do; have a 763 do an early evening departure from Narita after the early to mid afternoon bank of arrivals from the US, and arrive late night in MNL, then do an early morning departure to a early afternoon arrival in Tokyo - perfect for transiting on to the late afternoon/early evening banks to North America.

Do we know for sure that JAL is loosing money on their Manila operations? If they were their 2x daily 74E ops plus their NGO flight which I believe is a 763 could definitely be cut down if they just wanted to maintain flights to the Philippines. Is there a possibility that JL can maintain profitability on their MNL operations because of the cargo they carry in the belly? That said, if that were the case an NH 763 probably wouldn't suffice for the route.

There are a lot of places in the region where NH does not fly, so it's not as if MNL is a singular black hole on their route map.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1620 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5060 times:



Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 15):
The reason that NW sends 2x 744 to MNL is because they do heavy maintenance there..

Correct. NWA even has their own mechanics there.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineFilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4891 times:

How are NW and JL's MNL yields?
Which airline(s) not based in the Philippines do you think is making the most money from MNL?



FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4870 times:



Quoting FilAmAirlines (Reply 18):
Which airline(s) not based in the Philippines do you think is making the most money from MNL?

From US, probably DL/NW. But overall, probably EK, then QR.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

CO does well lots of OCW's paying higher yield oneway fares to MIA, IAH, MSY ect..Many are crew members for ships plus populations of Guam and Honolulu are about 50% Filipino..and visit their family members often...

Per Philippine Govt regulations you have to but a ticket from MNL to the final destination..
You can not cheap out buy your worker a PAL MNL-LAS and tell the worker to walk over to WN and fly LAS-MSY

You have to buy a Ticket all the way to the workers location or port so CO does OK with this niche also no layover so they go right through MNL-GUM-HNL-IAH-FLL/MSY or where-ever...and they get free food form CO along the way what a deal.  Smile .Also Guam seems to be a good Immigration point of entry compared to places like PDX where there were rumors of Philippine citizens and others having a hard time....I even heard it is one reason DL closed the PDX gateway...but thats sounds like BS

SO they can pretty much fill the 7 MNL-GUM 2 MNL-ROR-GUM everyday and it helps feed 767-400 GUM-HNL-IAH and CO 12 HNL-LAX 757 soon to be 737-900


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2092 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4803 times:



Quoting Sq_ek_freak (Reply 9):
Lots of people must have been pissed when the flights were finally cut!

Especially the employees at the MNL station.

It was a destination inherited from PA but the Philippines lived up to its reputation as the new "Sick Man of Asia."


User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4780 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
t's not full either. I'm not sure that flight is long of this world.

I can't dispute your statement, but recently my flight out of HNL was well into the 80% range and the return nearly full. Knew one of the flight attendants on the return and she said it's nearly always that full.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4782 times:



Quoting AADC10 (Reply 21):
It was a destination inherited from PA but the Philippines lived up to its reputation as the new "Sick Man of Asia."

What does that mean?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4704 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 23):
What does that mean?

Economics, politics, corruption.

In the 1950s, the Philippines was the most dynamic economy in Asia - hailed by the World Bank as a future powerhouse. Half a century later the country is, in the words of Rommel Banlaoi, a political-science professor at the National Defense College, "the sick man of Asia".
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/FJ01Ae01.html

You can google the term and from scholars to politicians the Philippines has garnered such a title since about the 80s, as much of its ASEAN neighbors far surpassed the nation.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4368 times:



Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 15):
The reason that NW sends 2x 744 to MNL is because they do heavy maintenance there... Might as well carry some pax while they're at it.

NW's heavy maint is done by HECO or whatever its callled in Hong Kong.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
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