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US1549 Survivor Wants US To Pay For Therapy  
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11211 posts, RR: 52
Posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/24/us.airways.1549.claims/index.html

Basically, the lady suffered emotional distress when the plane went down, and has required therapy to return to normal. It is very hard to find any fault with that. She definitely endured a very traumatic event.

However, where I fall on this is that US Airways is 0% at fault for the accident, and so legally would not be required to pay a dime to the passengers. They have already been more than generous by giving them money they were not required to give. The explanation by AIU was exactly spot on. I don't know what can be said to this passenger other than "We're really sorry, and we hope that you can find comfort in your health and return to some level of normalcy as quickly as possible."

Oh, and she also needs to find a cheaper therapist. My god!


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59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1846 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5070 times:
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I'm no expert but why would a 4 year old need therapy for something like this? She's way to young to understand what could have happened to her if it went wrong. Apart from some bad dreams I seriously doubt she will have any emotional problems after this.


Fly DC-Jets!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

This is actually several week old. The basic story, USAirways is only liable for the lost luggage and personal items. She is claiming the the cost of treatment has already surpassed that cost.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6688 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5034 times:



Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 1):
4 year old need therapy for something like this?

Probably because of an anxious mother.

Anyway, why does she need (expensive) therapy? Doesn't she have friends to talk it out with (for free) or does a certificate on a wall somehow have magical powers wipe away such anxieties.


1. you're alive
2. shit sometimes happens
3. be thankful you weren't on AF447, or on the wrong street in Tehran, or on the wrong train in Washington DC, or, or, or.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4967 times:



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
Anyway, why does she need (expensive) therapy? Doesn't she have friends to talk it out with (for free) or does a certificate on a wall somehow have magical powers wipe away such anxieties.


1. you're alive
2. shit sometimes happens
3. be thankful you weren't on AF447, or on the wrong street in Tehran, or on the wrong train in Washington DC, or, or, or.

 checkmark 

US Airways did nothing wrong and isn't at fault for this accident. She should thank her lucky stars that she had a skilled pilot who was able to successfully ditch the plane without injury or loss of life.


User currently offlineArcrftlvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4962 times:



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
Anyway, why does she need (expensive) therapy?

We don't know if it's expensive. The story just said she had a $3,000 deductible, which suggests to me that they are paying very little for their insurance. Which in turn, translates to a large deductible. The other part of the story mentions that they received a $1,000 therapy bill. However, we don't know how many sessions that's covered.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
Probably because of an anxious mother.

Spot on.

This kind of stuff absolutely disgusts me. This woman should be thankful she's alive, if not for the professionalism and skill of the crew that saved her life. Now, she's blaming the airline that employs said crew because they are not properly taking care of her? F her. US has done more than enough. Why can't she use the $5,000 that US already paid her? Hopefully she tries to sue and ends up losing more money in a lawsuit than if she just paid for the sessions and moved on with her life.

At the end of the day, there is no one at fault for this accident.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

Therapy for her and her 4-year old? For what, surviving the crash? Would she have rather died? How do you give therapy to a 4-year old? Most of them have an attention span of about 30 seconds, at most.

People like this make me sick to my stomach. Every time something happens that isn't a part of their normal routines they come apart. She probably cries watching soap operas on TV.

I have a message for this lady: "You're alive and your daughter is alive, so stuff your guts back in and GET OVER IT!!!!!

I sincerely hope that US doesn't give in to this nonsense.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

I actually agree that this particular passenger probably needs additional councelling. I have flown with a close friend who was terrified of flying, and her reation to even getting on the plane nearly cost us the flight. I wouldn't want to imagine how she would have dealt with any possible crisis let alone a ditching...

HOWEVER... this ditching was an "act of God". It was a random unfortunate incident with a fortunate ending. US Airways has certainly went above and beyond the obligations of compensation to the passengers of this flight.

While I feel sorry for the passengers that may still be having issues with the incident, the continued demand for compensation in this case is shameful... and such a typical knee-jerk, ambulance chasing, lowest common denominator "mostly in the USA" reaction...

The only thing I would question is whether there is any compassionate coverage from the insurance company? (trying not to laugh at my own question...)



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4727 times:

That's how shity the world has become. People always take advantage of any situation to get money. And this is especially more exagerated in the USA (no offense guys, just the reality). I for my side (THIS IS MY OWN FEELING) think that it's a trendy fashion to consult a (psycho)therapist for everything because your own brain is too weak to deal with many situation........again : I don't want to hurt anybody here.

User currently offlineArcrftlvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4646 times:



Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 7):
While I feel sorry for the passengers that may still be having issues with the incident, the continued demand for compensation in this case is shameful... and such a typical knee-jerk, ambulance chasing, lowest common denominator "mostly in the USA" reaction...

While I've always been a 'rah-rah USA' guy, I have to agree. This reaction is so typical amongst my fellow Americans it's embrassing. Given our current administration, I have a feeling this will get worse before it gets better.

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 8):
I for my side (THIS IS MY OWN FEELING) think that it's a trendy fashion to consult a (psycho)therapist for everything because your own brain is too weak to deal with many situation........again : I don't want to hurt anybody here.

While I understand this is your opinion, sometimes you should just keep them to yourself. There are many situations, and this not being one of them, where the 'weak-brained' person is incapable of handling the situation on their own. Before making such a ignorant generalization, you should probably do a bit of research and you'll find out that you are painfully ill-informed.


User currently offlineTylerdurden From United States of America, joined May 2008, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4641 times:



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
However, where I fall on this is that US Airways is 0% at fault for the accident, and so legally would not be required to pay a dime to the passengers.

I'm sorry, where has this been determined.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
1. you're alive



Quoting Cba (Reply 4):
She should thank her lucky stars that she had a skilled pilot who was able to successfully ditch the plane without injury or loss of life.

Comments such as “Well, you lived—isn’t that enough?” is single-handedly the weakest court defense that can be made for ANY injury cases---it is callow and contrite (and consequently plays directly into the plaintiffs’ argument).

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 7):
HOWEVER... this ditching was an "act of God"

"...experts have strenuously argued that wildlife strikes are, for the most part, not acts of God. Rather, such incidents are usually the results of careless management of either wildlife or habitat at and near airports, or are caused by inadequate timing, planning and execution of flight profiles." That's from Transport Canada Civil Aviation.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4615 times:



Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 10):
Comments such as “Well, you lived—isn’t that enough?” is single-handedly the weakest court defense that can be made for ANY injury cases

Ans "it's US's fault because geese flew into their engines!" is hardly a strong case



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinePliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4570 times:



Quoting Arcrftlvr (Reply 5):
At the end of the day, there is no one at fault for this accident.

The geese, but they are uninsured. You take the money and accept the freight, the risk of loss is on you, USAir.

Quoting Cba (Reply 4):
US Airways did nothing wrong and isn't at fault for this accident.

They took her money and gave her a ticket. End of story. There is insurance on the plane to cover these expenses.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
shit sometimes happens

But, the doctors do not accept shit as payment.

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 1):
Apart from some bad dreams I seriously doubt she will have any emotional problems after this.

How would you know? Did you examine the girl? Maybe she had an underlying condition that was greatly aggrivated by this incident. Of course a lot of anetters would dream to have been on that flight, some people might have found it terrifying. Remeber that the passengers didn't know of the sucessful outcome before the ditching and during the events leading up to it. This is not like a roller coaster where you know it will bew a thrill and you'll walk off fine.

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 7):
this ditching was an "act of God".

Well, God ain't going to pony up for the therapist.

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 8):
That's how shity the world has become. People always take advantage of any situation to get money

Shitty would be asking for $5,000,000. Asking for a few grand for treatment is in bounds.


User currently offlineTylerdurden From United States of America, joined May 2008, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4550 times:



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
Ans "it's US's fault because geese flew into their engines!" is hardly a strong case

I don't think the geese 'flew' into the engines. I appears that the aircraft failed to avoid them.
The migratory pattern of most species has been well documents for over 50 years--including those over NYC.

With 63 hull losses and 223 fatalities (not to mention 353 military hull losses with 165 fatalities) due to bird strikes---I'm just suggesting that much more could (and should) have been done to prevent this.

Interesting that only now have areas decided to euthanize bird colonies to avoid this problem. Possibly this should have taken place earlier.

In my view, this incident was 100% avoidable.

I realize this may be a dissenting opinion on an aviation enthusiasts site.


User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4466 times:
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Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 10):
"...experts have strenuously argued that wildlife strikes are, for the most part, not acts of God. Rather, such incidents are usually the results of careless management of either wildlife or habitat at and near airports, or are caused by inadequate timing, planning and execution of flight profiles." That's from Transport Canada Civil Aviation.



Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):
I don't think the geese 'flew' into the engines. I appears that the aircraft failed to avoid them.
The migratory pattern of most species has been well documents for over 50 years--including those over NYC.

With 63 hull losses and 223 fatalities (not to mention 353 military hull losses with 165 fatalities) due to bird strikes---I'm just suggesting that much more could (and should) have been done to prevent this.

Interesting that only now have areas decided to euthanize bird colonies to avoid this problem. Possibly this should have taken place earlier.

In my view, this incident was 100% avoidable.

I realize this may be a dissenting opinion on an aviation enthusiasts site.

 checkmark 

I think that the fact that they're doing something to prevent future bird strikes proves that this was, in fact, preventable!

It's not like this was some anomaly that couldn't have been predicted...like a "hidden" mechanical fault.



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4436 times:



Quoting Pliersinsight (Reply 12):
Well, God ain't going to pony up for the therapist.

So? That doesn't mean US Air or their insurer should have to. It means the family has to suck it up and pay.

Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):
Interesting that only now have areas decided to euthanize bird colonies to avoid this problem. Possibly this should have taken place earlier.

This is nothing new. Though in some areas liberal animal rights activists have protested even non-lethal bird management techniques.

Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):
In my view, this incident was 100% avoidable.

If it is so avoidable why then do we have.....

Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):
63 hull losses and 223 fatalities (not to mention 353 military hull losses with 165 fatalities) due to bird strikes.

and the many hundreds of other minor to moderate damage strikes.

It is not so easy to avoid as you seem to think even in a slow moving cessna where you have more reaction time.

No bird management technique is failproof.


User currently offlineSlinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4395 times:



Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):
In my view, this incident was 100% avoidable.

Really? So geese always follow a precisely defined path when migrating, feeding or doing whatever geese do? 100% of the time?

The story is unsympathetic to the lady - I hope she finds some way of recovering as well as her daughter. Seeking money from US isn't the right way IMO. Anyway, didn't passengers each get $5k or did that exclude minors ... if not then she should have plenty between the four of them (three if one young child was with a parent) for the therapy, or did they spend it on something else?


User currently offlinePliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4362 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 15):
Quoting Pliersinsight (Reply 12):
Well, God ain't going to pony up for the therapist.


So? That doesn't mean US Air or their insurer should have to. It means the family has to suck it up and pay.

Not under tort law here in the good ole US of A.


User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

LMAO, SO DID EVERYONE ON THE DAMN PLANE LADY!!!!!!!!! I mean, how the F@ck you think the pilots feel to this day. This stuff makes me so mad. Honestly, I can go on and on and on but I think you all know how I feel about this. My opinion.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineNws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4324 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 15):
So? That doesn't mean US Air or their insurer should have to. It means the family has to suck it up and pay.

Exactly. It's not like the family doesn't have their own insurance to cover these costs.

The family has medical insurance with a high deductible. The family chose this insurance, knowing that it had a high deductible. I understand that medical insurance is expensive, but so are the claims which the insurance must pay out.

US did nothing wrong here, why should they have to pay the family's medical bills? This accident was not due to maintenance or pilot error, it was due to a bird strike. It is not US's fault that geese fly and might get in the way of aircraft.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4283 times:



Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):

I don't think the geese 'flew' into the engines. I appears that the aircraft failed to avoid them.

Evasive maneuvers in a civil aircraft dodging a flock of geese just after take off... I'm no pilot, but don't you think that's a little out of the question? The captain can land an airbus in the Hudson River, he's a pretty skilled pilot, I'm pretty sure this accident was unavoidable AS FAR AS US IS CONCERNED. Should the airport/wildlife authorities be responsible? Maybe, but US Airways did nothing wrong.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4268 times:

Not everybody on US 1549 was perfectly healthy before they got on that flight... not everyone will be 100% healthy after it either.

User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4315 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4235 times:



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
However, where I fall on this is that US Airways is 0% at fault for the accident, and so legally would not be required to pay a dime to the passengers. They have already been more than generous by giving them money they were not required to give. The explanation by AIU was exactly spot on. I don't know what can be said to this passenger other than "We're really sorry, and we hope that you can find comfort in your health and return to some level of normalcy as quickly as possible."

I agree that US is not at fault here and under aviation treaties isn't obligated to pay; however, this story is drawing far more bad attention to them than it's worth. They should offer up to pay for some mental health care for any of the passengers that need it (and have them sign a disclaimer that states it is not compensation nor admission of liability on US' part) and get this behind them.

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 1):
Apart from some bad dreams I seriously doubt she will have any emotional problems after this.

You can't make a blanket statement like that. Kids at that age are very impressionable and traumatic experiences stick with them and turn into phobias as adults.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineTylerDurden From United States of America, joined May 2008, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4205 times:



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 15):
If it is so avoidable why then do we have.....

Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 13):
63 hull losses and 223 fatalities (not to mention 353 military hull losses with 165 fatalities) due to bird strikes.

and the many hundreds of other minor to moderate damage strikes

Because it's been an issue that has gone woefully unreported and mostly unaddressed by airlines, ATC, etc. Even the reporting standards of the FAA are very vague in what wildlife strikes are reported. If there not reported---then people don't see the problem.
That was the point.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Should the airport/wildlife authorities be responsible? Maybe, but US Airways did nothing wrong.

Again, hasn't been determined. My post was in relevance to it being a know hazard that has been largely ignored until this incident.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Evasive maneuvers in a civil aircraft dodging a flock of geese just after take off... I'm no pilot, but don't you think that's a little out of the question?

And look at the consequences. Evasive does not equate to dangerous. My statements are meant that the proper tools and training should be in place so that accidents like this do not exist.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4156 times:



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 23):
Evasive does not equate to dangerous.

I was being a little broad. I'm sure if they saw the flock they would have safely avoided it (if that's not the case then that is a major concern). Odds are they didn't see it or they couldn't avoid it without putting everyone in danger. I highly doubt they saw it and were able to avoid it and say, "eh, it's only a few birds, let's press our luck." Whether airports need bird detectors or whatever is not US's responsibility.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
25 BMIFlyer : Welcome to America..... Some people really need to get over this, it's now getting pathetic. Why do people think that therapy cures everything??? The
26 IAirAllie : It is easy enough to show that the crew used reasonable and skill to avoid the collision. These guys would have to prove that US was negligent. I thi
27 UA772IAD : I agree with almost everything that you have mentioned, except: I would not consider what US has compensated for is hardly "more than generous," if s
28 Pliersinsight : The fact that Sully and the gang did or did not aviod the geese is irrelevant. UsAirways sold her a ticket and took her on board. The plane crashed,
29 CitrusCritter : While I agree that US should not pay for the therapy, this statement clearly informs us that you're not a child psychologist. Just because the child
30 USAirALB : Does the 4 year old even want therapy, I'm not sure ANY child would want to got to therapy, no matter what happened. What are they going to make her d
31 IAirAllie : It is not irrelevant. You can't win a tort claim just because something bad happened and you have expenses to deal with related to it. You call that
32 Bravo1six : Why do people keep thinking that just because insurance is in place then somehow the passengers are entitled to something? The insurance on the plane
33 JER757 : BMIFlyer, although I agree with a lot of what you say, this I don't. Indeed therapy does not cure everything. However, if your 4 year old child was i
34 Bravo1six : As a Canadian lawyer all I can say is that if that's an accurate statement of the law of negligence in the US (and I have my doubts) I'm surprised th
35 Pliersinsight : Notice how NOBODY responded to the Sully landing on your house example. I guess since he made the river, it somehow detached liability from the airli
36 Slinky09 : Did that study include 4 year olds? How do you know they are not - but also that not every situation can be planned for, mitigated against and theref
37 D L X : The plane hit wild animals that could not be seen until too late to react to them. I'm pretty sure this much is known fact. What form of tort law lea
38 D L X : That's a different question: does Sully have a duty of care not to land a non-functional airplane on your house? Likely. But did he breach the duty?
39 Mir : Yes, birds migrate over NYC. Is your suggestion therefore that NYC should be abandoned since its airports are somehow unsafe due to the presence of g
40 Allegro : ... and a great airplane in the A320 ... There is a definite culture of "victim-hood" ... oh, poor me, give me some money or pay my bills and I will
41 Bravo1six : It wasn't my example, but my response would be the same in the circumstances of this accident - it's tragic, and people suffer losses, and people may
42 IAirAllie : Because it is different. Sully didn't land on a house he chose to land on the river to avoid the populated areas. Landing on a house if there were eq
43 Jawed : Thank you, armchair psychologist. So where did you earn your PhD in child psychology?
44 Pliersinsight : I'd send 'em a letter saying they are on notice that if any damage occurs from birds from the new pond, it will be on like donkey kong. Sounds like d
45 Pliersinsight : That would be far more expensive than paying the little girls therapy bills. An excellent statement of the Restatement. I recycled that book a long t
46 BMIFlyer : I was referring to the parent, not the child.
47 Mir : I would hope that they don't, since it would just be a continuation of the absolute joke that tort in the US has become. Somebody's got to stop the l
48 D L X : I'm well aware of the business side of being a lawyer, but in the end, you still have to do law. The LAW is the starting point of the negotiation, an
49 Pliersinsight : You've never brought a knife to a gunfight? Try it somtimes, it is fun. Okay, for fun, I'll take off my mobster shakedown hat and put on the professo
50 CrimsonNL : I didn't, that's why I started my post with stating that I am no expert on this subject and therefore my opinion might be (or in this case is) wrong.
51 Rikkus67 : I agree this is a valid point. This leads me to believe though, that the airport should be liable?
52 D L X : Foreseeable perils only. A meteorite hitting your plane, for instance, would not qualify. First, I think you're conflating breach with duty. Did US h
53 Bravo1six : Well that's great, except according to this: I'm still on the hook as "primary" and I need to chase the pond owner for contribution. That's great - b
54 UA772IAD : That particular did not, but it doesn't matter. Other research has found that death is one of the earliest concepts understood by humans. The underst
55 Pliersinsight : Then if the jury finds against them and not you, it sounds like the Plaintiff's attorney's problem. What I was getting at is the letter to them shoul
56 Post contains links Mir : They will. They've got a preliminary report out already: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20090115X73226&key=1 The NTSB deals in facts, not h
57 Bravo1six : That's the other thing that drives me nuts - people who buy houses around an airport that's been there since 1928 and then complain about the noise.
58 Pliersinsight : Well, you may have a duty to erect a large river near the airport then. The bigger problem I see comming with all of the injury cases is not so much
59 CitrusCritter : On their way to being useless law professors.
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