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Too Fat For Emergency Exits On ERJs/CRJs  
User currently offlineGulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9467 times:

I was on an American Eagle ERJ yesterday to DFW. Great service as always but I must admit I was rather annoyed about the situation with regards to one of the emergency exits (not that I wanted it I would like to add).

Of course the likelihood that we will have to ever use them is of course minimal but then again they are there for a reason and also the people who sit next to them have to be able to operate them.....

The man who was sat in the A (single) seat was extremely overweight and would have been nothing but a 'plug' in the exit if in the event of an emergency the exit needed to be used.

Of course the FA came up (as they have to) to ask verbally if pax. agree to the terms (and of course he said yes) but there was no way on this earth that this fella was the man for the job. If I happened to have been in a bad mood I might have just even said something because in my opinion he was "having a laugh". If the plane had gone down, we'd most probably have been cooked before he had negotiated his way out of the bird.

What's the stance on this? I'm really interested to know what you A.Netters think.


I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8557 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9427 times:
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Quoting Gulfstream650 (Thread starter):
. If I happened to have been in a bad mood I might have just even said something

If you genuinely believed it was unsafe why didnt you say something regardless of your mood . If something had gone wrong 'I should have said something' would be a pretty horrible last thought .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9398 times:

If the guy was able to make it through the door to get into the plane im sure he would be able to get back out??? When you arrived at your destination was he able to get out okay or did they have to do something special to get him out? You have to use your brain a little bit, I would rather him be up front rather than in a seat next to me taking up all the room. It would also be pretty hard for him to get through the aisle if there was an emergency, im sure the seat directly in front of the full sized door is the safest place for a larger man.

You also have two over wing exits if you would rather jump out that way.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineSKORD From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9361 times:

This is a bit of a "gray" area!! At the end of the day, these seats should be occupied by young, fit, alert, and active people. The poor Crew are placed in a very embarassing situation, having to confront such people and asking them to move. The problem is Airlines allowing frequent flyers to choose these seats upon booking, and they have no knowledge of the passengers abillities!
I would also take a bet that this fat guy would have screamed Blue Murder if he was ordered to move??

Im sorry... and im going to get horribly abused for the following statement.... "if you are too fat/obese/large... TOUGH!!!! The exit seats are there for a reason, and thats for peoples safety, not to accomodate your gut!! If you require extra space... buy another seat!


User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9360 times:

You are totally right Gulfstream, if this guy was too fat to evacuate through the emergency exit, he had to be resit. It happened to me as an F/A when an extremely overweighted man sat next to the overwing exit on a 737. I had to tell him that he has to change seat. He didn't agree and wanted a good reason. So I concentrate all my courage inside and told him : "I know you're not gonna like it but if anything goes wrong and we need to evacuate, you wouldn't be able to exit through this tiny little emergency escape hatch. A seat near a main door would be much appropriate for you, sir !" He agreed totally and thanked me........

User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9319 times:

I understand that happening at an overwing exit but this guy is talking about the main cabin door.


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9294 times:

If you were really concerned you should have discretely talked to the F/A about it. I did this once with some non-English speakers sitting in an exit row who obviously did not understand anything the F/A said. The F/A agreed and asked them to move. Of course, because they couldn't understand her, they were confused by it, but that's life.

If F/A's are there primarily for our safety, then they should take safety seriously, and they generally do make sure no children, elderly, non-english speakers, and immobile people are sitting there.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9268 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 5):
I understand that happening at an overwing exit but this guy is talking about the main cabin door.

The FA doesn't have to brief the passengers sitting near the main cabin door; he/she only must brief passengers sitting in the exit row. The presumption is that the FA will open the main cabin door or the galley service door. The opening post notes that the FA did brief this passenger and ask for verbal confirmation that he could and was willing to perform his duty as an exit row passenger in the event of an emergency.

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Thread starter):
The man who was sat in the A (single) seat was extremely overweight and would have been nothing but a 'plug' in the exit if in the event of an emergency the exit needed to be used.

If memory serves, one of the criteria for exit seating on some airlines is that a passenger in the exit row must be able to buckle his/her seat belt without using an extender belt.


User currently offlineIAD51FL From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 354 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9191 times:

LOL, love the assumptions people on here make. I am a larger guy and I have no problem opening and exiting a ERJ window exit. I have done it in a cabin trainer, faster than some of the smaller skinnier people.

I am more afraid of the businessman who is downing the screwdrivers or the frat boy guzzling the beer who are sitting in the exit row.

I think that the OP was just upset that he/she didn't get that seat.

Chris



Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.9758015, -95.2695694
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9119 times:

I disagree. Those ERJ exit doors are pretty small, if my memory serves me right. If there's a big man who would delay evacuation there, he should be gone.
A couple years back, when I had just turned 15, I was reseated because I wasn't "able-bodied" enough in the opinion of the F/A. Back then, I guess I would've fit that classification, I didn't dispute it, and I took a different seat and watched the F/A put someone who could definitely open that exit quickly in there.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9017 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 5):
I understand that happening at an overwing exit but this guy is talking about the main cabin door.

I'm not sure where you got that, since everything in the OP references the emergency exit, not the main door.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7702 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8968 times:
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Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 8):
LOL, love the assumptions people on here make. I am a larger guy and I have no problem opening and exiting a ERJ window exit. I have done it in a cabin trainer, faster than some of the smaller skinnier people.

You're making a massive assumption there yourself. You say you're a 'larger guy' but, with respect, you did not see the guy the OP was sat next to. If he states that the guy was dangerously large for the size of the exit then neither you nor I are in a position to assert otherwise without being there to see.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8893 times:

Could he buckle the seat belt without an extension? Isn't that the standard that they use?

User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8867 times:

I always wonder about the rules applied to who is/isn't allowed to sit in an emergency exit row. A few years ago my Mum, sister and I were flying home from VCE on a U2 flight. Being one of the first aboard, I grabbed an exit row for the three of us, taking the window/exit seat for myself, leaving the middle seat for my sister and the aisle seat for Mum. When the F/A came round to do the usual speech, she took one look at my Mum and sister and told them that they would have to move to different seats, but that I could stay put.

At the time my sister was 51, able-bodied, not overweight and certainly able to carry out any duties required of her in the event of an emergency. And even though my Mum was 72 at the time, she is fitter and more able-bodied than a lot of people I know that are half her age. Even now, people are still amazed that she's in her mid-seventies rather than her late fifties, so there is certainly nothing about her physical appearence that might suggest she's a frail old lady!!

Despite my protests ("It's me that would be dealing with opening the exit" etc.), the F/A was adamant that they had to move to another row.

The ironic thing is that after they moved to the row in front, their original seats remained empty, so if we had got into an emergency situation, my family would no doubt have been right behind me in the queue to get out anyway!



Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineGulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8629 times:



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 2):
If the guy was able to make it through the door to get into the plane im sure he would be able to get back out??? When you arrived at your destination was he able to get out okay or did they have to do something special to get him out? You have to use your brain a little bit, I would rather him be up front rather than in a seat next to me taking up all the room. It would also be pretty hard for him to get through the aisle if there was an emergency, im sure the seat directly in front of the full sized door is the safest place for a larger man.

I'm talking about the EMERGENCY exit - read! Your sarcasm is quite sad.

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 2):
You also have two over wing exits if you would rather jump out that way.

He was sat an emergency exits, that's what I'm talking about.

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 5):
I understand that happening at an overwing exit but this guy is talking about the main cabin door.

Glad you took the time to read what I posted, unlike others.

Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 8):
I think that the OP was just upset that he/she didn't get that seat.

Absolutely not, I quite like them don't get me wrong. Actually I was a little more annoyed about the fact that this man was the last to board the plane - there was an extremely tall guy - probably around 6ft 6 who thought that the seat was open and sat down then to consequently was kicked off the seat by the late comer (subject of my post).

I felt really sorry for him actually. He was bloody tall.



I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8161 times:



Quoting BAViscount (Reply 13):
I always wonder about the rules applied to who is/isn't allowed to sit in an emergency exit row.

At my airline, we use a little mnemonic to remember who shall not sit a emergency exits.
It's the CODDPPIES which stands for :

Children
Obese
Deportee
Disabled person
Pregnant
Prisoner
Infant on laps
Elderly if frail
Sick passenger

Hope it helps....


User currently offlineVarigB707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8163 times:

just a thought : the words "too fat" may be a bit offensive. People have feelings too.

User currently offlineChoppy From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7382 times:



Quoting Gulfstream650 (Thread starter):
The man who was sat in the A (single) seat was extremely overweight and would have been nothing but a 'plug' in the exit if in the event of an emergency the exit needed to be used.

The definition of "extremely overweight" is quite subjective and the "plug" comment is quite offesive! I, myself, am a large individual (5'7" 310 lbs) and I do prefer an exit row IF i have to sit in coach. I wish I had money to fly up front all the time, but that is not the case. I can tell you, however, that just because I am large, and technically meet the definition of "Obese" (height/weight proportionate + percent body fat based on total body mass), doesn't mean I should be required to sit somewhere else just because the F/A feels I might not fit out the emergency exit. If they want to open it and test the theory, I would be more than happy to prove them wrong. I do not require a seatbelt extension, which is a requirement for most if not all airlines for exit row seating...but the seatbelt is let all all the way for me. I am able to follow and give commands as necessary. I can lift the required 40-60 pounds of weight required to open and move the door, and I agree to all the terms and respond to all FAA questions required for seating in an exit seat (which I found out F/A's have to have verbal confirmation of certain questions per the FAA when I flew exit row on a CRJ from ATL to ORD last month). In all fairness, I have never flown on an ERJ, but the emergency exits I have seen look pretty substantial in size. If the passenger in question doesn't require a seatbelt extension, can understand the emergency procedure and speaks english, and can lift/open the door, then I feel they should be allowed to sit there regardless of other subjective mitigating factors.

Quoting SKORD (Reply 3):
"if you are too fat/obese/large... TOUGH!!!! The exit seats are there for a reason, and thats for peoples safety, not to accomodate your gut!! If you require extra space... buy another seat!

Are you going to pony up the money for it? I seriously doubt it.

Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 8):
LOL, love the assumptions people on here make. I am a larger guy and I have no problem opening and exiting a ERJ window exit. I have done it in a cabin trainer, faster than some of the smaller skinnier people.

I am more afraid of the businessman who is downing the screwdrivers or the frat boy guzzling the beer who are sitting in the exit row.

I agree 100%! I want to live and who better to make sure that happens in an emergency situation than me. I would absolutely want to be the one manning that emergency door, because I want to make sure I see another in addition to my fellow passengers getting to see another day also!

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 14):
Absolutely not, I quite like them don't get me wrong. Actually I was a little more annoyed about the fact that this man was the last to board the plane - there was an extremely tall guy - probably around 6ft 6 who thought that the seat was open and sat down then to consequently was kicked off the seat by the late comer (subject of my post).

If the tall guy wanted the seat, he should have booked it when he bought his ticket or at least asked for a seat change at the gate prior to boarding if there was availibility. Don't assume you can have it if it's empty. I would have made him move too!


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7348 times:



Quoting VarigB707 (Reply 16):

That may be true, but it does get the point across effectively. I'm not saying it should or shouldnt be worded thus, but I tink we're all old enough and ugly enough to get over it and focus at the extremely valid point raised.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7334 times:



Quoting Gulfstream650 (Thread starter):

Of course the FA came up (as they have to) to ask verbally if pax. agree to the terms (and of course he said yes) but there was no way on this earth that this fella was the man for the job.

and he probably would have created a whole scene and the media would've been all over it and he would've sued for millions and millions because he was being "discriminated"  Yeah sure  banghead 

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 2):
If the guy was able to make it through the door to get into the plane im sure he would be able to get back out???

Have you ever seen an emergency exit? If you're in these boards you should know they are significantly smaller than the main cabin door.

Quoting SKORD (Reply 3):
I would also take a bet that this fat guy would have screamed Blue Murder if he was ordered to move??

I bet he would've  Yeah sure

Quoting SKORD (Reply 3):

Im sorry... and im going to get horribly abused for the following statement.... "if you are too fat/obese/large... TOUGH!!!! The exit seats are there for a reason, and thats for peoples safety, not to accomodate your gut!! If you require extra space... buy another seat!

Amen!

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 4):
but this guy is talking about the main cabin door.

Uhm no, not once did he mention the main door.

Quoting IAD51FL (Reply 8):
LOL, love the assumptions people on here make. I am a larger guy and I have no problem opening and exiting a ERJ window exit

So? In your case you're obviously not that large enough to be a hazard. I have seen plenty of people that there's no way in hell you could squeeze them out of an emergency exit, even in a 737 or larger exit.

Quoting VarigB707 (Reply 16):
just a thought : the words "too fat" may be a bit offensive. People have feelings too.

Yay for political correctness  Yeah sure


User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7188 times:



Quoting HBJZA (Reply 15):
At my airline, we use a little mnemonic to remember who shall not sit a emergency exits.
It's the CODDPPIES which stands for :

Children
Obese
Deportee
Disabled person
Pregnant
Prisoner
Infant on laps
Elderly if frail
Sick passenger

That's interesting, thankyou. Your profile says you work for EZS, do EZY use the same mnemonic? If so, none of those applies to either my mother or my sister (as per the example I posted earlier)!! Oh well, maybe the F/A was new and over-eager!! Big grin



Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineFlylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6605 times:



Quoting VarigB707 (Reply 16):
just a thought : the words "too fat" may be a bit offensive. People have feelings too.

Let's put feelings aside and safety first, but, "too fat" would be the wrong terminology and certainly offensive even if true. Even obese might be wrong. Really too large is more appropriate. It is funny, but as a college athlete, for my height and weight I was technically obese even though I had/have significantly lower body fat than the average male. I wonder if the likes of Shaquille O'neal or an athletic NFL lineman could make it through an over wing exit; neither of whom are "too fat" or obese.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineRiyadhnurse From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 99 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

Good grief,was this gentleman under his own power when he boarded? Did someone literally stuff him into his seat? Was he crammed so tightly that his breathing was obstucted ? What's next for over weght pax's,a cargo pallet !  no  To save any pax being embarrassed,the F/A should have reseated him.


Tongue-tied and twisted,just an earthbound misfit,I.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6468 times:



Quoting Choppy (Reply 17):
I can tell you, however, that just because I am large, and technically meet the definition of "Obese" (height/weight proportionate + percent body fat based on total body mass), doesn't mean I should be required to sit somewhere else just because the F/A feels I might not fit out the emergency exit.

Actually, it does. F/As are expecting the pax in the exit row to be able to help out in the event of an emergency. If they don't feel that they can trust you not to be a hindrance, for whatever reason, they can, and should, re-seat you.

Quoting Choppy (Reply 17):
I want to live and who better to make sure that happens in an emergency situation than me. I would absolutely want to be the one manning that emergency door, because I want to make sure I see another in addition to my fellow passengers getting to see another day also!

Are you suggesting that everyone else on the plane is just going to be content to die in a crash?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKnid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6461 times:



Quoting Choppy (Reply 17):
The definition of "extremely overweight" is quite subjective and the "plug" comment is quite offesive!

I fail to see how, 'extremely overweight' is used in the context here to show that the individual's girth was exceptionally large, the 'plug' comment was used in a illustrative manner to covey the size of the individual relative to the size of the emergency exit. Both comments were necessary for the account made by the OP. Did you mean the 'nothing but' part of the comment?

Quoting Choppy (Reply 17):
I, myself, am a large individual (5'7" 310 lbs) and I do prefer an exit row IF i have to sit in coach. I wish I had money to fly up front all the time, but that is not the case. I can tell you, however, that just because I am large, and technically meet the definition of "Obese" (height/weight proportionate + percent body fat based on total body mass), doesn't mean I should be required to sit somewhere else just because the F/A feels I might not fit out the emergency exit. If they want to open it and test the theory, I would be more than happy to prove them wrong.

Unfortunately you do, the FA is responsible for the safety of the cabin, and what they say goes, if they determine that you are unfit to sit there, for what ever reason then you must move.

Quoting Choppy (Reply 17):
In all fairness, I have never flown on an ERJ, but the emergency exits I have seen look pretty substantial in size. If the passenger in question doesn't require a seatbelt extension, can understand the emergency procedure and speaks english, and can lift/open the door, then I feel they should be allowed to sit there regardless of other subjective mitigating factors.

So what you are saying is,

If someone is morbidly obese but does not need a seatbelt extension, they should be allowed to sit there. The FA is unable to consider whether the passenger could fit through the exit.
AND
The FA should not be able to determine whether or not they can perform the duties required of them by any subjective matter. So what if the FA suspects they are on drugs, had too much to drink, or are mentally unbalanced.


25 Ikramerica : I know a few people who are " too fat" and they are very aware of the fact they are. They are not sensitive to it. Further, they can do something abo
26 Gatorman96 : I had a similar situation on my flight home from ATL on a CRJ-200 Thursday. An older man with a cane (and I'm presuming his daughter) took about 3 min
27 Okie73 : I will not fly on a CRJ or on a E145 variant. In my humble opinion, they are unsafe. The reason is the overwing exits. They are very small, and they a
28 Mir : You mean right next to the engines? -Mir
29 NWADC9 : Tough. If you're too fat, you're too fat. I'm sure some morbidly obese person would accept it. After all, no one is supposed to look like a minivan!
30 UAL747DEN : When referring to "the A seat" in an ERJ it usually means 1A. 1A is a single seat all alone with no seats on the other side of the aisle. When you ad
31 Luv2cattlecall : I second your question...how were they certified like that? I thought FAA regs say that all aircraft have to have an exit forward and an exit aft of
32 Cloudboy : Obviously you don't know anyone, because you would realize that being "fat" isn't only an indication of how much someone eats. But then if that is al
33 NWADC9 : Now what does that have to do with the price of eggs?
34 Utapao : These threads crack me up., Let's say there is an airline or federal ruling about the weight/size/waist length of anyone in the exit row... Maybe not
35 Kmh1956 : According to your profile, you're a pilot. I would think that in such a case, you're duty bound to say something. I apologize profusely to any of the
36 Choppy : No, not at all. I guess I have the type of personality that likes to be in charge instead of depending on others. I was also referencing IAD51FL's co
37 Gulfstream650 : I'm sorry, I didn't make any judgement other than to say to myself "what the hell" - actually I thought it was a complete joke. This guy was panting
38 RussianJet : Er, why? Are you seriously suggesting that it is not better to have someone in good physical shape manning the emergency exit rather than a seriously
39 Babybus : We are all wonderfully fit and healthy until it's time to do something that tests it. It is safer for your mum and all the other passengers if she wa
40 NW747-400 : Very short sighted. These aircraft are certified by the FAA because they have completed the required evacuation tests satisfactorily. That is, all oc
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