DLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1621 posts, RR: 32 Reply 1, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4362 times:
Well ATL-LNK didn't last long. I couldn't understand their reasoning for starting it to begin with. With LNK being so close to OMA, they should have just added that frequency to OMA since there's hardly ever an empty seat on an ATL-OMA flight anyway.
If black boxes survive air crashes, why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff? ~George Carlin
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 3855 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4359 times:
That sucks for PIA, my old home airport. I wonder how much traffic bleed there is from PIA to FL's BMI-ATL flights.
BigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 73 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4273 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2): That sucks for PIA, my old home airport. I wonder how much traffic bleed there is from PIA to FL's BMI-ATL flights.
There's a lot of traffic bleed to DLs own BMI-ATL flights. Due to FL's price pressure, DL has drastically lowered fares out of BMI and increased service this summer to something like 5 or 6 70-seat RJs.
IADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 499 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4256 times:
This is really a bummer for PIA. ATL was the only alternative to ORD, in the winter, for pax connecting to the south, South America, east coast etc. etc.
At one time the service was doing so well that they had 4 flights a day. A drribble, dribble away from DL, for whatever reasons started and now they flights will be discontinued. What a shame.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4063 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4230 times:
Quoting IADLHR (Reply 4): At one time the service was doing so well that they had 4 flights a day. A drribble, dribble away from DL, for whatever reasons started and now they flights will be discontinued. What a shame.
The dribble started when DL launched ATL-BMI to compete with FL. DL effectively poached itself.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1418 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4144 times:
I was wondering when we would start to see more cutting in the new DL network.
Quoting IADLHR (Reply 4): This is really a bummer for PIA. ATL was the only alternative to ORD, in the winter, for pax connecting to the south, South America, east coast etc. etc.
At one time the service was doing so well that they had 4 flights a day. A drribble, dribble away from DL, for whatever reasons started and now they flights will be discontinued. What a shame.
PIA will still have AA Eagle thru DFW for connections in the southeast and South America which is a good option, but I do feel PIA's pain here. My hometown airport CID is losing its ATL and CVG flights ( which is the equivalent to 4 flights a day) essentially the old DL network has been replaced by the new DL (Old NW) newtwork thru MSP and DTW. Sucks though because ATL does have many good connections DTW and MSP can't provide and sits in a region directionally opposite than MSP and DTW. One would think they could warrant at least one non stop. Hopefully when the economy comes back we can see some of these flights re-stored. Have they upgraded an flights from PIA to MSP on CRJ's yet? Our airport director at CID had said in the newspaper here that DL planned to enhance service between MSP and DTW to balance out the cuts so will be interesting to see if they do this in PIA as well.
Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 1): Well ATL-LNK didn't last long. I couldn't understand their reasoning for starting it to begin with.
me either, especially since they are cutting cities that have had a longer history with flights to ATL.
EXAAUADL From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 4083 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4090 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2): That sucks for PIA, my old home airport. I wonder how much traffic bleed there is from PIA to FL's BMI-ATL flights.
I think DL has realized they cant serve both PIA and BMI to compete with FL. Silly thing is PIA has better yields. DL would rather knock heads with FL in BMI and lose money than make a small profit and let FL have BMI.
It is truly a stupid move. This is a great example of how testosterone not finances determines airline strategy.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 3945 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3963 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5): The dribble started when DL launched ATL-BMI to compete with FL. DL effectively poached itself.
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7): It is truly a stupid move. This is a great example of how testosterone not finances determines airline strategy
Yep. The thing is that DL didn't start to fight FL in BMI until it was too late. By the time DL started, everbody had been to Disney World and back with AirTran. I highly doubt that the market has grown on BMI-ATL nearly as much as capacity. 3 717s a day from FL plus 5 CR7s seems like an awful lot. And 4 a week to MCO after that. I have a feeling that both sides are flooding the market (DL a bit more so) and the yields are most likely crap on these flights.
In my opinion, DL would be better off with less service to BMI and keeping PIA even though it is far from unreasonable to drive between the two. DL may end up hurting themselves fighting for tourists with FL and G4 and try to snag the business pax generated by CAT and State Farm and try to keep yields reasonable.
The other thing to mention, is that Peoria receives far more NW service than BMI. PIA gets 2 CRJs from DTW and 3 Saabs from MSP each day, while BMI gets 2 CRJs and 1 Saab from DTW each day with no service to MSP. I don't know how, or if, this figures into the decision. Again, I would think that it would make more sense to stop fighting with FL at BMI by pulling down some of the ATL service, and ramping up flights to MSP and/or DTW while keeping ATL-PIA. For that matter what about CVG? No service there at all, despite CVG's notoriously high fares and presumably healthy yields leads me to believe that ATL service to Central Illinois is at least partially based on pure ego and hatred for FL.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 3855 posts, RR: 29 Reply 9, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3961 times:
It is truly a stupid move. This is a great example of how testosterone not finances determines airline strategy.
Well put. I always hoped NW would have started a couple of daily RJ's to MEM from PIA when they were independent. MEM would have been a great connecting point for PIA to anywhere in the old Confederacy. If DL has cut ATL, I doubt we'll ever see PIA-MEM now.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1418 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3870 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7): think DL has realized they cant serve both PIA and BMI to compete with FL. Silly thing is PIA has better yields. DL would rather knock heads with FL in BMI and lose money than make a small profit and let FL have BMI.
It is truly a stupid move. This is a great example of how testosterone not finances determines airline strategy.
100% agreed here. I think to an extent the same thing happens here between CID and MLI.
The airports, in good weather, about about an 80 minute drive from each other (even closer for those in the Iowa City/Coralville area of the Cedar Rapids-Iowa City corridor). DL has about 4 or 5 flights a day from MLI to ATL compete with FL on the route. Our airport director was quoted in our local paper as saying the ATL flight from CID provided full flights and good yields and was surpsied they were cancelled. People supported that route. I imagine the same thing in PIA is probably true too. I can't believe DL's flights from MLI would have better yields. DL should have retained ATL flights from PIA and CID and cut back from duking it out on the BMI and MLI routes. Some of these decisions are definietly head scratchers for sure.
AirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 572 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3778 times:
EXAAUADL From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 4083 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3632 times:
its not smart thinking on DL'a part. Lets say that DL does force FL out of BMI and MLI. So then FL would simply adds those aircraft to something like LGA, DCA, BOS etc. In other words DL is having a pissing match with FL in two markets that arent strategic to the ATL hub. If DL was smart they would WANT FL to serve cities like BMI and MLI and cut service to cities like LGA, DCA. BOS etc. In fact DL should pressure FL in business markets so that FL puts those resources in a city like RFD.
The airline industry has been so poorly run and this is a perfect example why. The same people making the same mistakes over and over.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8): DL may end up hurting themselves fighting for tourists with FL and G4 and try to snag the business pax generated by CAT and State Farm and try to keep yields reasonable.
I doubt CAT will drive to BMI, they will switch to AA's DFW service.
IADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 499 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3567 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 14): I doubt CAT will drive to BMI, they will switch to AA's DFW service.
It is my understanding that the AA PIA-DFW flight may be on life support too.
Also for anyone flying to Florida, Georgia, SC, NC, etc taking the AA flight west to go east is adding hundreds of miles and hours to the trip.
Over the years, PIA has lost STL, and now ATL, as an alternative to ORD foor east coast, and southeast travel to and from PIA.
For an east coast bound connections, the alternative is DTW. In the dead of winter, not an attractive alternative to ORD .
Speculation, off and on, mostly off, has been a UA PIA-IAD or a CO CLE-PIA. However, in these challenging economic times, I wouldnt hold my breath for either one of those to come to pass.
Panam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2420 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3399 times:
Why is DL gutting the crap out of ATL? Network alignment?
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 14547 posts, RR: 14 Reply 18, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3343 times:
Quoting IADLHR (Reply 15): For an east coast bound connections, the alternative is DTW. In the dead of winter, not an attractive alternative to ORD
DTW is leaps and bounds ahead of ORD in the winter (as is, FWIW, MSP).
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 7530 posts, RR: 16 Reply 19, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3326 times:
Quoting Panam330 (Reply 17): Why is DL gutting the crap out of ATL? Network alignment?
All four of these cuts make sense in light of the NW merger - for most major cities, you can reach them via DTW/MSP - no need to be using a CRJ 1-2x a day on a long, thin route when you've got other more convenient hubs that get the job done nearly as well.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1418 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3205 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 19): All four of these cuts make sense in light of the NW merger - for most major cities, you can reach them via DTW/MSP - no need to be using a CRJ 1-2x a day on a long, thin route when you've got other more convenient hubs that get the job done nearly as well.
perhaps, but ATL is such a megahub that offers some connections that MSP and DTW don't (smaller to mid sized cities in the Southeast, South American and Carribean flights and a number of TATL flights) and not to mention a large business center that generates a decent amount of O & D wouldn't it make sense to at least keep a flight or two on the route, especially if the plane was full and generating decent yields? Not that I would want to lose DTW flights, but to me it seems like DTW and MSP pretty much will get me to the same destinations, wouldn't it make more sense to, for example my airport of CID, keep MSP and ATL and cut DTW instead? MSP can get me to the west coast and Northeast, and ATL could get me to the southeast, Florida etc. To me it would seem to make more sense to have communities west of the Mississippi retain MSP and those east to DTW. Just my opinion though....
EXAAUADL From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 4083 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2923 times:
Quoting IADLHR (Reply 15): It is my understanding that the AA PIA-DFW flight may be on life support too.
Where have you heard that? PIA-DFW does much better than ATL-PIA because the yields are better. I would think BMI-DFW would be cut first. CMI-DFW probably needs to stay given the MQ in CMI.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 14547 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2622 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 20): To me it would seem to make more sense to have communities west of the Mississippi retain MSP and those east to DTW. Just my opinion though....
It seems like they've left most of these cities with at least one westbound hub (generally MSP) and at least one eastbound hub (DTW). Given that DTW has connections to a good number of destinations in the southeast (even some smaller ones like GSO) and that demand to Latin America from the likes of LNK and CID isn't huge, it's a sensible strategy.
In the end, DL doesn't exist to provide convenient service for the people of eastern Iowa. It exists to make money. That sounds callous, but it's true.
SLCguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1495 times:
Hmmm, does this really surprise anybody? DL routes being dropped and NW routes staying. Reminds me of the prophetic remarks from a DL employee in a previous DL/NW merger thread, "Northwest bought Delta and they used Delta's money to do it". Richard Anderson is one sneaky ------! You can fill in the blank.
SLCguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1417 times:
I want my Delta back!
25 Gsoflyer: GSO is not a small destination, unless you consider Nashville, Knoxville, Norfolk, Jacksonville, Memphis, Louisville, Charleston SC, Raleigh, Birming
Jaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 26, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1101 times:
Another factor that may have led to them dropping PIA is because PIA's main employer Caterpillar is currently struggling. Earlier in the year, CAT laid off 25,000 people as their business has slowed, so obviousely fewer people are flying from the Peoria market, both for leisure and business.
27 Cubsrule: It's not. I was just trying to differentiate from the likes of Miami and Atlanta. FWIW, though, every city you listed has service to DTW, as do a han
28 Azjubilee: Gimme a break... there have been many cuts on the NWA side as well. Let's see... so far we've had route cuts on both sides, plus NWA taking major step
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