777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 9836 posts, RR: 23 Posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10928 times:
Welcome to the #59th edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. In thread #58 New Zealand Aviation Thread #58 (by 777ER Jun 16 2009 in Civil Aviation) we learnt and discussed:
- NZs passenger loads down 10%
- JQ's poor attitudes and changing schedules by between 5mins - 2hours
- NZ operating B733s on AKL-OOL routes recently
- Some nice routes for a B733 to operate
- Pacific Blue issues on-time challange to NZ and JQ
- JQ and ZQN
- Wellington's Airport Flyer bus service
- PacBlues new AKL-DUD service
- NZ hands JQs screwed pax a life line
- NZs wide body fleet
- A memorial web-site for TE901 Erebus
- Are NZ ripping off regional destinations?
- NZs new B733 safety video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Mq9HAE62Y
- NZ increases Tasman flights from ZQN and launches summer ZQN-BNE flights
- Is the 1900D the best aircraft for our smallest regional markets?
- ZQN sees increse in number of direct ZQN-Australia passengers on NZ and QF flights
Thats #58's round up, so lets get #59 rolling down the runway
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PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10871 times:
Responding to VirginFlyer in the previous thread.
The February 1997 Ansett New Zealand Timetable had the following;
AKL-WLG, WLG-AKL (146) x 16
AKL-CHC, CHC-AKL (146) x 8
WLG-CHC, CHC-WLG (146) x 8, (DH8) x 1
WLG-DUD, DUD-WLG (146) x 1
CHC-DUD, DUD-CHC (146) x 3
CHC-ZQN, ZQN-CHC (146) x 3
CHC-IVC (DH8) x 3, IVC-CHC (DH8) x 2, IVC-DUD-CHC (DH8) x 1
AKL-ROT, ROT-AKL (146) x 1
ROT-CHC, CHC-ROT (146) x 1
ROT-WLG, WLG-ROT (DH8) x 3
AKL-PMR, PMR-AKL (DH8) x 3
PMR-CHC, CHC-PMR (DH8) x 1
HLZ-WLG, WLG-HLZ (DH8) x 3
WLG-PMR, PMR-WLG (EMB) x 4
WLG-NSN, NSN-WLG (DH8) x 1, (EMB) 10/11
WLG-BHE, BHE-WLG (EMB) x 6/7
The 146-300 had 90/92 seats, the DHC8-100 40 seats and the Bandeirante 15 seats.
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10863 times:
Regarding the 'outrageous' $900 GIS-CHC-GIS fare.
The April 1997 Air NZ Timetable has the oneway GIS-CHC 'Adult Economy' at $355 (or $710 return). Adding 2% a year compounded comes to $900. No change.
Wow, thats a very excellent route network. I had totally forgotten that AN operated EMBs. Hopfully DJ will operate some extensive network like that with the Ejets that are hopefully getting
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Aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10779 times:
Quoting PA515 (Reply 3): The February 1997 Ansett New Zealand Timetable had the following;
AKL-WLG, WLG-AKL (146) x 16
AKL-CHC, CHC-AKL (146) x 8
WLG-CHC, CHC-WLG (146) x 8, (DH8) x 1
WLG-DUD, DUD-WLG (146) x 1
CHC-DUD, DUD-CHC (146) x 3
CHC-ZQN, ZQN-CHC (146) x 3
CHC-IVC (DH8) x 3, IVC-CHC (DH8) x 2, IVC-DUD-CHC (DH8) x 1
AKL-ROT, ROT-AKL (146) x 1
ROT-CHC, CHC-ROT (146) x 1
ROT-WLG, WLG-ROT (DH8) x 3
AKL-PMR, PMR-AKL (DH8) x 3
PMR-CHC, CHC-PMR (DH8) x 1
HLZ-WLG, WLG-HLZ (DH8) x 3
WLG-PMR, PMR-WLG (EMB) x 4
WLG-NSN, NSN-WLG (DH8) x 1, (EMB) 10/11
WLG-BHE, BHE-WLG (EMB) x 6/7
That's an amazingly comprehensive schedule. i think ansett only made a profit in two of its years of operation, though. Still, man if only! Even if you only take the main trunk routes with DUD and ZQN thrown in, current secondary operators (PacBlue and JQ) haven't got a chance of ever matching that! I guess that's the age of 180-pax jets for you.
There are some interesting comments in there made by the public, and some funny ones. I think it has been mentioned in the New Zealand forums before but these people are paying next to nothing for these fares and are expecting the world. Definatly a case of "You get what you pay for".
Quote: Jetstar responded to its early difficulties. Media reports say the airline is now offering compensation vouchers to inconvenienced travellers
For my friend, this included a Sumo Salad voucher in AKL worth $10 for an 8 hour delay. He's not flying Jetstar anymore. I didn't know that they were bringing non-RNP planes to serve. I reckon my $10 flight to ZQN in December could be fun if I had the same weather as last year! It might just include a nice bus trip to Christchurch. They still have massive problems. "Technical glitch" in ZQN meant that my flight to WLG was delayed by over 1.5 hours. Then the jetbridge in Wellington failed on us, adding another 15 or so minutes onto sitting on the rather shabby A320. That's one first experience people shouldn't have to have if JQ want them to fly on them again.
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
Alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 1410 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10333 times:
Thing about all these bad Jetstar experiences, is that they are not teething problems. Jetstar did the hard ball act on passengers to late for the check in deadline when they started their Australian operations. They have not learned from their start in Australia. Maybe they need to say in big letters on the Booking Confirmation - "we are serious about the check in deadline"
If they use Web check in, that will save one bit of queuing at the airport. If passengers do use the Cabin Baggage discount, that is another bit of queuing saved (to drop your bag) and of course, no waiting around to collect the bag when you arrive.
I don't want Jetstar to pack up and leave - we do want the lower air fares. They have given themselves a hard task. Schedule reliability is hard with only three planes available. That should not be the passengers' problem. A $10 Sumo Salad voucher is better than the $7 voucher I got from Freedom at Sydney Airport when we had a four hour delay.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1076 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10297 times:
I had my own "JetStar Experience" over the weekend - very similar to others'. Five and a half hour delay heading AKL-WLG on Saturday (partly fog, partly because JQ didn't have the wherewithal to change a tyre promptly), and nearly two hours delay back from WLG last night.
What got me was the appalling lack of information - or contradictory information - provided. If JQ were prepared to update the public displays with more accurate information, they wouldn't have to have so many people on the ground answering the same enquiry about "what time will my plane really leave". But my "5.10pm" AKL-WLG flight still showed an ETD of 5.10pm several hours AFTER that time.
A little bit of amusement, though: I asked a JQ rep dealing with enquiries on the check-in level what the situation with my flight was, and she told me that the aircraft about to depart would have to do a return trip to WLG before it would be available to do my flight. Oh, I said, so that means about three hours from now? No, I was assured, only two hours. But surely, I replied, an hour each way, plus half an hour turnaround each time, made three hours minimum? Oh no, I was assured, we can turn the plane in five minutes if we're pushed! Yeah, right!
The other "difference" was when we arrived in WLG, and several pax started getting luggage out of the overhead lockers before the plane had completely stopped. Most carriers I've been on will have the FA do a polite announcement on the PA system requesting pax to remain seated until the plane has stopped. Not JQ. The male FA aggressively bellowed down the plane telling pax to sit down, not once but several times. I thought there was some kind of dire emergency until I realised what was being said! I thought that could have been handled a bit more professionally.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
It's not that thin a route though.. And we hope they have RNP too. It'd be a complete disaster if they didn't.
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16): and nearly two hours delay back from WLG last night.
In that case I think you got the same aircraft as me! VH-VQS.
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16): What got me was the appalling lack of information - or contradictory information - provided. If JQ were prepared to update the public displays with more accurate information, they wouldn't have to have so many people on the ground answering the same enquiry about "what time will my plane really leave". But my "5.10pm" AKL-WLG flight still showed an ETD of 5.10pm several hours AFTER that time.
Same problem here. Funny thing - they closed check in 30 mins prior to the scheduled departure time which seems uncalled for as the plane was so delayed. I went up to the carpark for some spotting and heard over the PA system about how the check in was now closed but the flight was going to depart at 2:30. We didn't board till 2:50. The ETA of the arriving aircraft also stayed still at 1400. You'd think that things could be communicated a bit better to keep people informed.
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
I've experienced the opposite with PacBlue here. I've had many flights with PacBlue since 2007 and I've seen them keep their check-in open longer if a flights delayed
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ANstar From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 3352 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10159 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 21): I've experienced the opposite with PacBlue here. I've had many flights with PacBlue since 2007 and I've seen them keep their check-in open longer if a flights delayed
Must be a New Zealand thing as that is certainly not the policy here in Aus with Pac Blue.
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 9836 posts, RR: 23 Reply 24, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10047 times:
Looks like airfares to/from and in New Zealand will increase thanks to the CAA as they are moving into a brand new building shortly with massive rents (over 1.9million per year) on the corner of Featherston and Bunny Street in Wellington (directly opposite the Wellington Railway Station). The CAAs CEO's reason is because its a stone throws from the Beehive and other important people and he believes the New Zealand public will support paying more for its new building because of the important work the CAA does in keeping us safe.
SOURCE: One News
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Knid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10242 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 24): Looks like airfares to/from and in New Zealand will increase thanks to the CAA as they are moving into a brand new building shortly with massive rents (over 1.9million per year)
Where were they before this, and how much rent was paid previously? Were the previous accommodations unfit or not renewable?
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 25):
Im stumped. How would the CAA moving increase airfares? They aint an airline :-S
They impose levies and fees, on airlines, which do pass costs on to consumers.
ZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 6455 posts, RR: 14 Reply 27, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10205 times:
Oh ok. Still stumps me but I guess weirder things have happened...
Was just reading the opinions page thing on Stuff that 777ER shared the link to regarding jetstar.
I can't help but think how ironic it is that Jetstar entering the NZ market has actually been a very big favor for NZ given all the mishaps. But reading some of the comments, JQ customers are now thinking NZ is flawless.... NZ managment must be pleasently suprised at the whole matter
Quoting Knid (Reply 26): Quoting 777ER (Reply 24):
Looks like airfares to/from and in New Zealand will increase thanks to the CAA as they are moving into a brand new building shortly with massive rents (over 1.9million per year)
Where were they before this, and how much rent was paid previously? Were the previous accommodations unfit or not renewable?
They are currently in Petone (15mins drive north of the beehive) and they own the building. Apparantly the new building is very posh and it better meets their needs.
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Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 3448 posts, RR: 9 Reply 29, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10183 times:
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16): The male FA aggressively bellowed down the plane telling pax to sit down, not once but several times. I thought there was some kind of dire emergency until I realised what was being said! I thought that could have been handled a bit more professionally.
Pretty standard on most airlines for several reasons. The main one being that the plane can stop suddenly anytime injuring not only the idiot standing up but also the people sitting around him/her.
For the CSM/Purser/IFM to make the additional PA would either need to be able to see that person or have to get a call from the FA in that area first... this takes time during which the plane could either stop suddenly (or as is often the case the plane stops engines shutdown mid PA). Best just to have the FA in the zone "bellow" at the pax. The polite softly softly approach only really works if the pax is sitting close by...otherwise they just ignore it.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1076 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10033 times:
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 29): Pretty standard on most airlines for several reasons. The main one being that the plane can stop suddenly anytime injuring not only the idiot standing up but also the people sitting around him/her.
For the CSM/Purser/IFM to make the additional PA would either need to be able to see that person or have to get a call from the FA in that area first... this takes time during which the plane could either stop suddenly (or as is often the case the plane stops engines shutdown mid PA). Best just to have the FA in the zone "bellow" at the pax. The polite softly softly approach only really works if the pax is sitting close by...otherwise they just ignore it.
Interesting - never experienced it before.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
VirginFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2000, 4239 posts, RR: 54 Reply 31, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10028 times:
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 13): Thing about all these bad Jetstar experiences, is that they are not teething problems. Jetstar did the hard ball act on passengers to late for the check in deadline when they started their Australian operations. They have not learned from their start in Australia. Maybe they need to say in big letters on the Booking Confirmation - "we are serious about the check in deadline"
You know, you could always look at the converse of that - passengers in Australia have become a lot more accepting of Jetstar's practices and know how to 'play the game' compared to when they started. Granted there are still complaints about what happens when flights get cancelled and passengers are left more or less on their own, but the 30 minute check in issue seems to have more or less dropped off the radar here.
I've had an experience in Australia with a Jetstar flight being cancelled a week beforehand. I got an email informing me the flight I booked no longer existed, and that I had been moved to another flight (later on the same evening) at no expense. Only problem was half the reason I had chosen the flight I did was to be where I wanted to be by a certain time in the evening. I called their customer service line, expecting to get into an argument, and instead spoke to a pleasant young lady who had me booked on the earlier flight, again at no extra charge, within a couple of minutes. Say what you will, there is at least one person involved with their operation somewhere who knows how to keep a customer (even one who paid very little for a fare) happy.
That being said, the reported on time problems are unfortunate to say the least. I don't suppose they've been running long enough to have any average delay figures published yet have they?
To be honest, I don't know what to make of this. No one likes a government department moving into new premises, yet at the same time we're very quick to complain when they can't do their job effectively, and you don't have to be genius to work out that substandard working conditions cause both a physical and a psychological impediment to good work. The real question is how much of an improvement will the new premises be, and does the cost justify that...
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 25): How would the CAA moving increase airfares? They aint an airline :-S
Now there's a question - how much public outrage was there when Air NZ moved into their new office down at the Viaduct area?
V/F
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NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 17 Reply 32, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9924 times:
Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 31): That being said, the reported on time problems are unfortunate to say the least. I don't suppose they've been running long enough to have any average delay figures published yet have they?
But IMO they'll be severely hampered by their non-RNP A320s.
JQ sent their 13th and 14th A320s to serve in New Zealand - unsurprisingly tatty I must say. I probably felt I was more like in a kindergarten with all the crayon marks around me. And it did seem that the interiors were in a worse condition than the interiors of the Jetconnect fleet, considering the age of the planes. I don't know how a tray table can get a crack in it..
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
QF45 From New Zealand, joined Feb 2009, 55 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9899 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 32): JQ sent their 13th and 14th A320s to serve in New Zealand - unsurprisingly tatty I must say
That makes sense. The comments I have heard about the interiors of their aircraft I must say I was surprised. I have flown Jetstar dozens of time across the tasman and their aircraft are always in good order. I guess they have placed their newer ones on the tasman?. It's a shame Jetstar haven't had a successful start expanding here in New Zealand. They have always been a popular choice ex CHC across the tasman (based on people I know, work with etc) cheap and RELIABLE are two words that come to mind. Domestically, they have the cheap part right but not the reliable part. I just say watch this space, I beleive they will turn themselves around (hopefully on time) and be a success here in New Zealand.
Alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 1410 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9843 times:
I think AKL-DUD in a 738 will be a bit harder for Pacific Blue to bring off than the one stop through CHC.
The non stop works for AirNZ because it gives DUD a connection onto the AirNZ longhaul network, and the evening non stop is great because just about every passenger will be connecting onto an international flight. Pacific Blue does not have those connections, and it does not have a partner. We have lost the newly arranged connecting flights onto Emirates at CHC.
Now we have no competition out of Dunedin to CHC or WLG. We still do have good Grab A Seat fares from AirNZ - they would rather fill an empty seat than not.
I think Dunedin people have just got used to driving to Christchurch. If Jetstar get their act together and start serving Dunedin, perhaps a service to Wellington would be the highest priority. Jetstar does some connecting and through flights in Australia, so if the WLG flights carries on through to AKL, that would be OK. That would let Dunedin people get up to the Rock Concerts.
Koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 1424 posts, RR: 5 Reply 36, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9795 times:
People on this board seem to be so pre-occupied by Jetstar domestic that they haven't noticed that Jetstar International has put off its massive 787 order (and cancelled a heap of them too) and has abandoned plans to operate to North America and Europe. It's fair to make the call now - Jetstar International has failed.
The new Qantas CEO came from Jetstar, and is making the tough decisions about this unviable carrier which his predecessor could not make.
It is now all but certain that Jetstar International will be folded into Qantas as a lower-cost "Zeal320"-like operation, and that it will stick to its existing routes and some of the more marginal Qantas ones.
And in my opinion it is now a matter of time - and not very much of it - before Jetstar Australia and Jetstar NZ are re-integrated into Qantas just like Song and Ted. Their industrial awards will endure, but their fare model and all-economy seating are basically finished.
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9769 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): It's fair to make the call now - Jetstar International has failed.
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): And in my opinion it is now a matter of time - and not very much of it - before Jetstar Australia and Jetstar NZ are re-integrated into Qantas just like Song and Ted. Their industrial awards will endure, but their fare model and all-economy seating are basically finished.
I can partially agree with statement one. However I never saw a businesscase for flights to ethnic destinations in Europe. Europe is to far away, the immigrants from these areas are old and have lived in Australia for too long and most important it would cost to much money.
My guess for Jetstar international would have been VFR to less competitive places like India and service to touristrelated destinations.
I can still see the businesscase for such airline.
However statement two?
I dont agree at all with it.
Jetstar Australia carries a lower costbase. Why would Qantas abandon it?
And integrating means increasing costs and getting into a very interesting conflict with unions and stakeholders.
Cant see that happening.
To the contrary I see more Jetstar Australia products and less Qantas product coming for Australia.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care. Millwall against the world!
ANstar From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 3352 posts, RR: 6 Reply 38, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9767 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): People on this board seem to be so pre-occupied by Jetstar domestic that they haven't noticed that Jetstar International has put off its massive 787 order
Jetstar will STILL be receiving the QF groups first 787's in 2013. I wouldnt be calling JQ international a failure - more over that the QF group needs to hold their capital spending.
JQ are still getting 2 more 330's this year for further INT expansion.
Aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 39, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9754 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): People on this board seem to be so pre-occupied by Jetstar domestic that they haven't noticed that Jetstar International has put off its massive 787 order (and cancelled a heap of them too) and has abandoned plans to operate to North America and Europe.
I pointed that out in reply 155 of the last thread...
"Meanwhile... Qantas's deferment and cancellation of a chunk of its 787s bodes well for NZ, in my opinion. Perhaps Jetstar isn't the competitive threat we all expected it to be. Given the long-term nature of these orders (delivery 2014/15), perhaps Qantas is in a little more financial strife than we all thought?"
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): It's fair to make the call now - Jetstar International has failed.
I don't think this is a fair call at all. You're attributing the 787 cancellation/deferment to Jetstar's long-haul business model - bit of a stretch, with little supporting evidence.
With their reputation so dented, it'll take a lot to turn it around IMO. They should have started on a high note as they were replacing an already unreliable service and they could have put themselves in a much better situation than they did put themselves into.
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
Koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 1424 posts, RR: 5 Reply 41, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9661 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): And in my opinion it is now a matter of time - and not very much of it - before Jetstar Australia and Jetstar NZ are re-integrated into Qantas just like Song and Ted. Their industrial awards will endure, but their fare model and all-economy seating are basically finished.
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 37): However statement two?
I dont agree at all with it.
Jetstar Australia carries a lower costbase. Why would Qantas abandon it?
And integrating means increasing costs and getting into a very interesting conflict with unions and stakeholders
I think that Qantas will retain the cost-base, but they'll brand it as Qantas. For exactly the same reasons that Song and Ted and Freedom are now Delta, United and Air NZ.
Qantas is really going to have the unions in Australia over a barrel. British Airways' workers are working for free, V Australia is tanking, Virgin Blue's share price has tumbled and there is a global recession. I can't see Qantas trying to make QF staff work for JQ wages but I can see no more QF staff being taken on, and everyone being employed by JQ for QF.
Jetstar International has reinforced what we had already seen with Oasis Hong Kong - long-haul LCCs don't work.
Koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 1424 posts, RR: 5 Reply 42, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9610 times:
The other issue that doesn't seem to be getting much attention on this thread is that Koruhub at Hong Kong is now proceeding!
Unfortunately, it's not Air New Zealand which is going to use Hong Kong as a hub for services to London, but rather it's the Virgin group, with V Australia flying BNE-HKG and, almost certainly MEL-HKG, to connect to Virgin Atlantic's SYD-HKG-LHR and HKG-LHR services.
It's another example, unfortunately, of our "nimble" national carrier blinking at the moment when an opportunity arose, and instead watching someone else step in. Worse still, it's the same V Australia which is/will be flying the BNE-LAX, MEL-LAX and MEL-JNB flights which Air NZ could and should have operated, and Air NZ's 777-200ER is actually a much more viable size for those routes than V Australia's over-sized 777-300ER.
It looks like Air NZ's destiny is to wither away as a small niche airline to and from NZ, and that it will fail to use its much-coveted rights beyond Australia to the UK and North America. I know that at the moment that seems like a "small target" strategy, but the problem is that ultimately it can only end up in acquisition by a larger foreign carrier.
Koruhub would have been better for everyone in NZ - people in Auckland would have got one-stop services to multiple European destinations instead of NZ's current LHR focus, while residents of Christchurch would have got the same thing. And higher-earning Australians would have underwritten the whole expansion.
Unfortunately, we're just going to get more of the same instead.
I think that the responses of world airlines to the current global financial crisis really define the future of aviation. Singapore Airlines has lost the plot, and daren't bring in Premium Economy for fear of crippling its overpriced First and Business Class offerings. Meanwhile Emirates' very future looks highly dubious, as Dubai's economy has been wrecked by the crisis and the emirate has no oil reserves to fall back on.
Air NZ could have earned itself a nice future by doing what it does best: having a class-leading Economy product, competitive Premium Economy cabin and excellent Business Premier product linking all major Australian and NZ centres with multiple UK and Europe cities via a hub. It worked for years at LAX, with NZ dominating traffic to the South Pacific.
Unfortunately, it's not going to happen, and someone else will step in between multiple Australian cities and the UK with a good economy and premium economy product, and get that market share that EK and SQ can't meet, especially in Premium Economy.
TG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2838 posts, RR: 15 Reply 43, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9592 times:
Regular Air NZ frequent fliers and ex-employees may wish to know that Steve I., who I believe was the #3 seniority flight attendant at Air NZ, passed away suddenly and unexpectedly at home on Sunday.
If the name sounds familiar, he was a BIG guy, in his mid-60s, with white/grey hair, tanned skin, and very white teeth (usually smiling!). He had 42 years service with Air NZ and started as a steward on the Lockheed Electra aircraft. He served for many years in our FA1 position (Inflight Service Director) and most recently had stepped back to serve as the Inflight Service Coordinator (who runs the economy class service).
Steve was also visible on occasion on the 'Piha Rescue' TV series, as he had been a volunteer lifesaver for many years and was, I believe, still doing 2 days a week there at the time of his death. He also was involved in many other community groups.
I flew with Steve a lot and will dearly miss his good nature and smiling face. He is the fourth flight attendant we've lost before their time in the last 6 months
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 9836 posts, RR: 23 Reply 44, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9513 times:
I remember reading in the last thread about a Tui sign highlighting JQs stuff ups on the Auckland motorway. Could someone get a picture of the Tui sign and post it here please.
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Alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 1410 posts, RR: 1 Reply 45, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9507 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): People on this board seem to be so pre-occupied by Jetstar domestic that they haven't noticed that Jetstar International has put off its massive 787 order (and cancelled a heap of them too) and has abandoned plans to operate to North America and Europe. It's fair to make the call now - Jetstar International has failed.
One of the reasons people in this thread are pre occupied by NZ domestic operations by Jetstar is that this is the NZ thread. The cancellation of 787s by the Qantas group has had a thread to itself. There maybe quite a lot of reasons for changes - change of priority by Alan Joyce, questions as to whether the 787 will give Qantas and Jetstar the performance that they thought they were going to get in 2005, and a fair question as to whether long haul Jetstar International services are working for Qantas.
For Australian domestic ops, the A320 was deliberately chosen so that it would be hard to integrate into Qantas mainline operations. The test, as AJ said was whether Qantas could sell Business Class seats in the market. This is one reason why Canberra did not get Jetstar services. Sorry for the high value individuals who live near Gold Coast Airport or on Hamilton Island. Even if Qantas does decide to call the operation Qantas-Lite and put Kangaroos on the tail. If Qantas continues to think you are at a low -yield port you are not going to get CityFlyer service.
Qantas has decided that NZ domestic is all low yield stuff. People will learn to live with the conditions.
If the 787s had already been delivered and had the long range, Jetstar might already have tried flying to Southern Europe. Now, Qantas is friendly with Etihad, and if they build the relationship, perhaps they will put passengers for Rome onto Etihad services. Or perhaps with the 787 some way off, the interesting idea of having some A330-200s flying via Darwin might not be too far fetched. Would I fly from SYD in an A320, change to an A330 at DRW and go on to Rome like that? It would have to be a very good fare to fly that way in preference to using any number of other carriers, but some people might.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9498 times:
Sorry but this question may have already been asked before. I read an article in the NZ Herald that the PM john Keys was delayed in Queenstown after opening the "Winter festival".
The article stated the he was flying JQ and there planes are not fitted with the the required equiptment to fly into or out off ZQN in bad weather. That may well be the case but my question is, shouldn't ALL NZ government ministers be requierd to fly and support Air NZ, after all the Government is a major shareholder of the airline so wouldn't it make sense to favour them over other operators ??
Sceondly, why would JQ operate a sector that is renowned for delays/cancelled flights due to weather by not using aircraft that have the required nav etc for this airport, seems really silly to me and very costly for the airline ??
TheCommodore
I've been on a lot of things that fly - British, European, US and Russian built.
Kiwiandrew From Mauritius, joined Jun 2005, 5489 posts, RR: 17 Reply 47, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9486 times:
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46): ...shouldn't ALL NZ government ministers be requierd to fly and support Air NZ, after all the Government is a major shareholder of the airline so wouldn't it make sense to favour them over other operators ??
no , IMHO , they are spending taxpayers money so they should go with whichever option is most cost-effective*
* please note that I did not say 'cheapest' as this is not always the most cost-effective - eg a 'cheap' fare which requires an MP to stay 12 hours in a town where they had a 2 hour meeting scheduled is not what I would consider cost-effective
edited to add :
of course , flying on a carrier which cannot offer a reliable schedule is not necessarily cost-effective either
[Edited 2009-07-01 01:18:33]
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 13483 posts, RR: 94 Reply 48, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9481 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 42): Meanwhile Emirates' very future looks highly dubious, as Dubai's economy has been wrecked by the crisis and the emirate has no oil reserves to fall back on.
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 17 Reply 49, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9472 times:
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46): my question is, shouldn't ALL NZ government ministers be requierd to fly and support Air NZ, after all the Government is a major shareholder of the airline so wouldn't it make sense to favour them over other operators ??
I think it's more of a case of not paying too much to make the taxpayer get angry about his spending. In another article today, it told how $90,000 was spent for him to fly First Class from here to APEC and South America over 7 days or something - all booked courtesy of Labour (who tried to bring that up in parliament). And possibly to see if their criticism is all what it lives up to be.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46): Sceondly, why would JQ operate a sector that is renowned for delays/cancelled flights due to weather by not using aircraft that have the required nav etc for this airport, seems really silly to me and very costly for the airline ??
We were thinking the exact same question. These planners seem like they didn't know what to do. Maybe with some advice from Jetconnect's managers (or QF short haul international ones) they could have realised that RNP is basically a necessity for ZQN ops. It's pathetic and appalling to all who have come to think that JQ will be better than what Jetconnect provided.
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
TG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2838 posts, RR: 15 Reply 50, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9468 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 49):
I think it's more of a case of not paying too much to make the taxpayer get angry about his spending. In another article today, it told how $90,000 was spent for him to fly First Class from here to APEC and South America over 7 days or something - all booked courtesy of Labour (who tried to bring that up in parliament). And possibly to see if their criticism is all what it lives up to be.
I dunno.. despite those who decry politicians at every opportunity and the tall poppy syndrome that seeks to remind them at every shrill opportunity that they 'ain't no better than the rest of us', they are representing New Zealand's interests overseas on most of the occasions they travel, and PERSONALLY I have no problem with them travelling in F when available, or at the very least the highest class available on the route (for example, NZ's BP). To add to that, most of them earn far less than they would in the private sector.
I'm a Labour supporter, but I feel it would be a bit embarassing to have the Premier minister of NZ (ie Key) to be travelling in any class less than the highest available.
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 17 Reply 51, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9486 times:
Quoting TG992 (Reply 50): PERSONALLY I have no problem with them travelling in F when available, or at the very least the highest class available on the route (for example, NZ's BP). To add to that, most of them earn far less than they would in the private sector.
Fair enough. But needless to say that there are plenty in this country who would strongly oppose this sort of behaviour! I would think that F tickets would come slightly cheaper than that too considering that a SQ Suite is A$22,000 return SYD-LHR. But what I don't like about this debacle is the opposition trying to redicule him for something that they made us pay for. He said that he'll fly Business on other occasions. Sensitivity leads to these things and the media do blow it out of proportion too. I think he/she deserves the highest class too because it'd be much more expensive for him to be flying around in the 757 to every single destination he plans on visiting, let alone flying it rather empty.
In addition to this as an aside: flying a SIN-LHR sector on SQ not in Suites (ie 77W/744) costs $4000 more.. I think that's weird
[Edited 2009-07-01 01:43:05]
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 4549 posts, RR: 12 Reply 52, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9418 times:
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 6): How are long haul carriers like MH and TG performing on their AKL sectors in the current environment?
I to would like to know how these 2 are going. I'd say TG are probably harder hit, but for them they used to use an A346 daily which while the wrong aircraft (very comfortable) they had the frequency.
MH were 4pw last winter for a while aswell, they operated 5 over summer though.
No idea really. Probably varies depending on the day.
Even UTA
I thought they only flew the DC-10 into Auckland?
Hmm, you may be right come to think of it, AF briefly replaced them around 1993 with the then new 744. I remember seeing an AF 744 parked while in the old observation deck you were talking about, which I to was sad when it closed.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9394 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 49): I think it's more of a case of not paying too much to make the taxpayer get angry about his spending.
The government is already supporting Air NZ by being the major shareholder. It makes little sense to bail out an airline, only to support another one - unless, of course, schedules make it impossible to support Air NZ.
That's before you consider the reliability advantage Air NZ hold as they are able to get in and out of ZQN in a wider range of conditions.
I've been on a lot of things that fly - British, European, US and Russian built.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 54, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9384 times:
In terms of earlier opposition to the Prime Minister travelling First Class, I see no problem.
If we all accept that First Class affords a greater level of comfort and that passengers arrive at their destination in better condition, why wouldn't you want your nation's elected representatives to be in top form when representing your interests?
That's before you even consider matters like national pride. Despite the perks, public office, at that level, is far from a walk in the park!
I've been on a lot of things that fly - British, European, US and Russian built.
Knid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9327 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): It's fair to make the call now - Jetstar International has failed.
To accuse the Jetstar model of been a failure is difficult, it is clear that the economy is been driven by fear, and this puts many businesses at risk, if it were a failure (the fat lady has far from sung), is it the model or the economy or any other number of factors - to discern between these is problematic to my mind.
Quoting Koruman (Reply 42): Meanwhile Emirates' very future looks highly dubious, as Dubai's economy has been wrecked by the crisis and the emirate has no oil reserves to fall back on.
As I said in the last thread if things get tight within the Investment Corporation of Dubai from property development issues, then Emirates as a cash earner will be essential and as such its future is anything but dubious.
You are also assuming that the Emirate of Dubai would be allowed to fail (if it ever got that far), but the UAE as a whole could never allow that to occur, and Abu Dhabi has the $$ to bail them out. So really Emirates is secure, and Dubai will not fail.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1076 posts, RR: 2 Reply 56, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9307 times:
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46): Sceondly, why would JQ operate a sector that is renowned for delays/cancelled flights due to weather by not using aircraft that have the required nav etc for this airport, seems really silly to me and very costly for the airline ??
I flew AKL-ZQN a few months ago on an NZ A320, and we were in cloud almost all the way from AKL. Arriving at ZQN, we came out of the cloud as we turned over the lake, and landed without any difficulty. On the ground, it seemed like a medium overcast, plenty of sky visible (can't estimate height of cloud base, sorry). But even then, QF had already diverted to wherever, IVC, I suppose. I could imagine that there must be a great many days like that, and I can only agree that the wisdom of JQ starting without RNP is highly questionable.
Quoting TG992 (Reply 50): I'm a Labour supporter, but I feel it would be a bit embarassing to have the Premier minister of NZ (ie Key) to be travelling in any class less than the highest available.
Personally, I have no aspirations to travel J, let alone F (though I have experienced both), but for the life of me I can't see who would deserve to travel F if a Head of Government didn't? It's not as if it's a private jet.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
Aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 57, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9174 times:
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46): shouldn't ALL NZ government ministers be requierd to fly and support Air NZ, after all the Government is a major shareholder of the airline so wouldn't it make sense to favour them over other operators ??
Wasn't this a private trip? As in, NOT on government business.
While I think the Dubai economy is a lot weaker than acknowledged, I don't believe Koruman's hyperbolic claims either that Emirates' future is doubtful.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 51): In addition to this as an aside: flying a SIN-LHR sector on SQ not in Suites (ie 77W/744) costs $4000 more.. I think that's weird
That is weird. Perhaps the excess supply on the A380 has lowered F-class yields? Or perhaps they're trying to shove people onto the A380 flights so they can turn around and say it's introduction is a raging success? Man, conspiracy theories are fun.
Back to Jetstar - does anyone remember the Ferrit website collapse a few months back? The Telecom subsidiary had this awful marketing campaign featuring a dunce of a guy that seemed to turn an awful lot of people off Ferrit. My point is, does anyone now find the ads with the snarky Jetstar guy walking around the streets/beaches of Auckland just a little bit grating right now? The regular staff (obviously Australian) are fine, but man that guy with the microphone really gets my goat!
Koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 1424 posts, RR: 5 Reply 59, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9071 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 48): Quoting Koruman (Reply 42):
Meanwhile Emirates' very future looks highly dubious, as Dubai's economy has been wrecked by the crisis and the emirate has no oil reserves to fall back on.
DUBAI: Morgan Stanley expects the UAE economy to contract two per cent in 2009. But it projects a "mild recovery" next year."
I'll take a mild recovery next year.
Quoting Knid (Reply 55): As I said in the last thread if things get tight within the Investment Corporation of Dubai from property development issues, then Emirates as a cash earner will be essential and as such its future is anything but dubious.
You are also assuming that the Emirate of Dubai would be allowed to fail (if it ever got that far), but the UAE as a whole could never allow that to occur, and Abu Dhabi has the $$ to bail them out. So really Emirates is secure, and Dubai will not fail.
I don't think that Mariner's article is at odds with my assertion.
The UAE might do OK because the other Emirates have oil, but at the moment Dubai is starting to look a lot like a gigantic Nauru, and Emirates is beginning to like like a gigantic Air Nauru.
Yes, Abu Dhabi will never allow Dubai to completely fall over. But Emirates is the number one competitor to its own Etihad, and I think it's fanciful to imagine that Abu Dhabi would rescue Emirates.
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 45): One of the reasons people in this thread are pre occupied by NZ domestic operations by Jetstar is that this is the NZ thread. The cancellation of 787s by the Qantas group has had a thread to itself.
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 45): If the 787s had already been delivered and had the long range, Jetstar might already have tried flying to Southern Europe
The high-volume low-yield long-haul LCC business model is basically a train wreck: I can't see any redeeming features for it. The only saving grace is that the low salary base could be rolled into Qantas mainline, just as Australian Airlines was.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 13483 posts, RR: 94 Reply 60, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9051 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 59): The UAE might do OK because the other Emirates have oil, but at the moment Dubai is starting to look a lot like a gigantic Nauru, and Emirates is beginning to like like a gigantic Air Nauru.
I wasn't referring to the short-term fortunes of Emirates the airline. I was referring to the article's assertion that those parts of the UAE with oil would experience growth, while those without (i.e. Dubai) wouldn't.
The problem is that Dubai has positioned itself as a discretionary luxury market for the nouveaux riche (OK, no jibes about Tahiti please) and has found that its real estate / vacations are the first thing that customers from its target markets have chosen to forego.
Emirates' remarkable growth has been based around
1) Dubai's growth and support and
2) the fact that DXB could be a hub both for long-haul traffic and
3) servicing people from the Indian subcontinent a) working in the Middle East, and b) people of subcontinental origin living in the UK raturning for VFR vacations.
(It's easy to forget just how fundamental to Emirates' network the subcontinent is: at the risk of damaging my Koruhub argument I'm well aware that flights from Dubai to Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle and Birmingham largely exist to get Poms of Indian / Pakistani / Bangladeshi origin back to visit the whanau in Karachi / Mumbai / Kolkata / Dhaka, and that they are a useful bonus for people who just want to fly one-stop to Australia or NZ.)
Anyway, elements 1 and 3a are now history, and I struggle to see how Emirates can survive long-term without them.
Koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 1424 posts, RR: 5 Reply 63, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8926 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 62): You think Emirates is starting to look like "a gigantic Air Nauru." I don't see that, so I shrug.
I vividly remember times in the past when Gulf Air and Aeroflot carried much of the through traffic which Emirates does now. Just as no-one wanted to go to Moscow or Bahrain, no-one really wants to go to Dubai either, and even the aspirational Beckham nouveau riche market has dried up, which leaves you with a transit point situated bang in the middle of the most volatile area of the world, splendidly strategically positioned midway between Gaza and Afghanistan and midway between Somalia and Iran.
The car park at DXB is now famously filled with abandoned (financed) vehicles belonging to ex-pats who skipped the country when they lost their jobs.
There is a definite role for midway hubs between Europe and Australia/New Zealand, but I don't see why it needs to be DXB (in the frightening and sweltering Middle East) or SIN (less than a third of the way to Europe, and with a revolting sauna-like climate) when Air New Zealand (or the Virgin group) could do it at least as well via Hong Kong, which at least has a rich population of 7 million.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 13483 posts, RR: 94 Reply 64, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8908 times:
Quoting Koruman (Reply 63): There is a definite role for midway hubs between Europe and Australia/New Zealand, but I don't see why it needs to be DXB (in the frightening and sweltering Middle East) or SIN (less than a third of the way to Europe, and with a revolting sauna-like climate) when Air New Zealand (or the Virgin group) could do it at least as well via Hong Kong, which at least has a rich population of 7 million.
I like Dubai, I like going there. With some obvious exceptions, the Middle East is not all "frightening" to me and although yes, it can be hot, it goes with the territory. Some of the great times of my life have been in the Middle East, where I have encountered extraordinary hospitality.
I like Singapore. I don't find it any more of a sauna bath then Hong Kong and I don't much like Hong Kong. I prefer Shanghai.
And just to keep it with airlines, I see that Virgin Atlantic is reducing their flights LHR-HKG.
I prefer Bangkok to both of them, but hey, I take what I can get and it doesn't take much to persuade me to jump on a plane to Jakarta - or Darwin.
So I guess the old rule applies. Each to their own. Always.
FlyPacificBlue From New Zealand, joined Apr 2009, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 65, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8900 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 21): I've experienced the opposite with PacBlue here. I've had many flights with PacBlue since 2007 and I've seen them keep their check-in open longer if a flights delayed
Correct. If the flight is delayed, check-in can remain open and we may accept LMC's at the supervisors/Load controllers discression. Generally it can remain open up untill boarding commences.
Quoting ANstar (Reply 22): Must be a New Zealand thing as that is certainly not the policy here in Aus with Pac Blue.
You are referring to International flights. Yes Pacific Blue closes strictly at -30 to STD. Unoficially we close at -40 in AKL but will accept LMC's if them being checked in will not affect OTP. This is because of Customs processing, LAGS and the great long walk to Pier B at AKL International Airport
Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Well II suppose international flights are different due to Customs and secuirty.
TG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2838 posts, RR: 15 Reply 66, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8676 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 15): Would WLG be on the cards sometime? I'm very surprised NZ is still the only airline flying WLG-ZQN
WLG - ZQN is designed largely to pick up central North Island traffic for example NPE, ROT, HLZ, TRG – ZQN Traffic, taking them over WLG in place of CHC. I'm not sure how much WLG - ZQN traffic there is on it's own so could JQ do this stand alone?
Quoting ANstar (Reply 18): That is pretty standard with delayed ops. Check in will close at the scheduled time.
Not with NZ. Well not on International anyway.
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 30): Interesting - never experienced it before.
I have but it was during take off, wasn't in the most disgusting manner but any idiot who wants to stand up during take off should be yelled out. If you see what happens during a take off engine failure then you will understand the danger your are putting everyone else in not just yourself. If you're taxing in after landing their is a polite way of doing this.
Quoting Koruman (Reply 36): People on this board seem to be so pre-occupied by Jetstar domestic that they haven't noticed that Jetstar International has put off its massive 787 order (and cancelled a heap of them too) and has abandoned plans to operate to North America and Europe. It's fair to make the call now - Jetstar International has failed.
The new Qantas CEO came from Jetstar, and is making the tough decisions about this unviable carrier which his predecessor could not make.
It is now all but certain that Jetstar International will be folded into Qantas as a lower-cost "Zeal320"-like operation, and that it will stick to its existing routes and some of the more marginal Qantas ones.
And in my opinion it is now a matter of time - and not very much of it - before Jetstar Australia and Jetstar NZ are re-integrated into Qantas just like Song and Ted. Their industrial awards will endure, but their fare model and all-economy seating are basically finished.
I tend to agree with Koruman for once world wide airlines have done the full circle, they split off a built LCC's with a different brand, Freedom, Jet Star, Song, Ted are just a few examples. They are all slowerly coming back under one name, airlines have learnt how to operate with lower operating costs yet maintain a level of service. The Virgin group are the same, DJ and VX were LCC's but are slowly moving away from this image, long term they will be service airlines just like VS.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 44): I remember reading in the last thread about a Tui sign highlighting JQs stuff ups on the Auckland motorway. Could someone get a picture of the Tui sign and post it here please.
Here is it, I will not be able to leave this up for long due to bandwith issues
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46): That may well be the case but my question is, shouldn't ALL NZ government ministers be requierd to fly and support Air NZ
Aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 67, posted (4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8574 times:
Quoting FlyPacificBlue (Reply 65): You are referring to International flights. Yes Pacific Blue closes strictly at -30 to STD. Unoficially we close at -40 in AKL but will accept LMC's if them being checked in will not affect OTP. This is because of Customs processing, LAGS and the great long walk to Pier B at AKL International Airport
What does "LMC" stand for? I flew standby a few weeks back and was confirmed 30 mins before departure. Didn't realise the new Pier B gates were so very VERY far away and had to actually run after customs to make the flight.
Seriously, Pier B at Auckland International is a bit of a nightmare. Not only is it an enormous distance from the main terminal, but it actually goes uphill for half the distance, with pokey little travelators that aren't all that much faster. The extension is notciably colder than the original pier and, frankly, it looks cheap and tinny both inside and out.
AIAL really went the budget route on this one, which is a real shame. It is cool seeing 4 PacBlue 738s all bunched up like that though.
Still, I think this is Auckland's version of the Polderbaan, Amsterdam's newsest but also very distant runway (you can barely make out the central airport when you arrive in AMS). I wonder what the local equivalent would be - what's Maori for "freakin miles away"?
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 17 Reply 68, posted (4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8503 times:
Quoting TG992 (Reply 66): so could JQ do this stand alone?
Definitely without RNP first of all, and they'd have to get their frequencies right on other flights before attempting WLG-ZQN. IMO it's just not worth it. Utilise the planes to service good peak hour flights and more people would obviously be tempted to fly you!
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 67): AIAL really went the budget route on this one, which is a real shame. It is cool seeing 4 PacBlue 738s all bunched up like that though.
It is, however, going to be massively overhauled for when AIA get around to building the entire pier B - both the other side of it and possibly more landside stuff. It sure seems like a long way off, as with the 2nd runway.. But one day I reckon it'll all be different.
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 67): what's Maori for "freakin miles away"?
Hawaiki
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
Last Minute Change - in this context, a manual ammendment to a load sheet, eg. if a traveller no-shows and they must be removed from the aircraft and in turn, the load sheet. Of course, this works the other way too, should an extra traveller be allowed to board at the eleventh hour.
With all this talk about RNP operations into ZQN, it is of interest that PacificBlue will not be using RNP technology for their ZQN ops, they will instead be utilising GPS. This is the DJ Group's preferred option for low-vis approaches (so I'm told).
When PacificBlue commence ZQN, they'll be cleared by CAA to approach to a certain height using their GPS technology, and after they've been flying the route for some time without incident (six -12 months?) that limitation will be removed, or lowered even further.
So, in the initial stages of becoming "GPS Certified", expect even PacificBlue to have to divert / cancel ZQN services on the days when the weather there is SO bad, that they still can't see once below that inital height limit imposed by CAA.
I would assume the certification process is similar for an operator wanting to use RNP.
Qantas in New Zealand have never taken the ZQN market seriously, and in all their years flying to ZQN never made any attempt to adopt either of these technologies to ensure regularity of their flying into ZQN.
Does anyone know if JQ is in fact going through this proving stage for RNP operations? Or are they still not bothering?
Haha, good call. but the online Maori dictionary suggests "tawhiti", so I hereby christen Pier B at Auckland International Airport, "Tawhiti" - Polderbaan of the South Pacific.
Quoting DJ738 (Reply 69): Last Minute Change - in this context, a manual ammendment to a load sheet, eg. if a traveller no-shows and they must be removed from the aircraft and in turn, the load sheet. Of course, this works the other way too, should an extra traveller be allowed to board at the eleventh hour.
Thanks, guess that applies to me then.
A question about Wellington's approach/takeoff routings - when taking off to the north, why do flights headed for the south island turn west over the city? I ask because last night several 733s and 738s heading for CHC or DUD took the left hand route and, possibly because of the weather conditions, were incredibly loud - the noise really lingered around the central city. Why don't they hang a right and turn to the east, avoiding the noise issue?
VirginFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2000, 4239 posts, RR: 54 Reply 71, posted (4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8381 times:
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 67): what's Maori for "freakin miles away"?
I always thought it was "Invercargill"
Last time I was in Auckland, I thought I'd have plenty of time before my flight was due to board to have a wander around the terminal and have a look at Pier B. I got half way down, and decided to give up...
V/F
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large. Then make the dream real. - Donald Douglas Snr
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 17 Reply 72, posted (4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8323 times:
Quoting DJ738 (Reply 69): With all this talk about RNP operations into ZQN, it is of interest that PacificBlue will not be using RNP technology for their ZQN ops, they will instead be utilising GPS. This is the DJ Group's preferred option for low-vis approaches (so I'm told).
Is this also going to use the technology of the locator beacons so that the control tower knows where the plane is? Interesting use of technology - I'd like to see a comparison with RNP.
Quoting DJ738 (Reply 69): Does anyone know if JQ is in fact going through this proving stage for RNP operations? Or are they still not bothering?
Mid next year is when they get it, so we're told.. I guess it'll keep the coaches happy for a little while shipping those pax to CHC.
Take a look at my trip reports! Upcoming Flights: Aussie + NZ Late November
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 9836 posts, RR: 23 Reply 73, posted (4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8243 times:
Quoting TG992 (Reply 66): Quoting ANstar (Reply 18):
That is pretty standard with delayed ops. Check in will close at the scheduled time.
Not with NZ. Well not on International anyway.
Whats NZ cut off time for both domestic and international?. Thanks for the Jetstar pic.
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 70): A question about Wellington's approach/takeoff routings - when taking off to the north, why do flights headed for the south island turn west over the city? I ask because last night several 733s and 738s heading for CHC or DUD took the left hand route and, possibly because of the weather conditions, were incredibly loud - the noise really lingered around the central city. Why don't they hang a right and turn to the east, avoiding the noise issue?
I find this interesting also because the ATRs, Q300s and 1900Ds turn to the right and head over Seatoun when heading south. The turbo-props when coming into WLG from the north also pass over Seatoun
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VirginFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2000, 4239 posts, RR: 54 Reply 74, posted (4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8236 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 72): Is this also going to use the technology of the locator beacons so that the control tower knows where the plane is? Interesting use of technology - I'd like to see a comparison with RNP.
I *think* you might be thinking of ADS-B, in which case, no I don't think that is what is being referred to. From DJ738's description, they're talking about using a GNSS RNAV arrival procedure. Broadly speaking, this is similar to the RNP arrival procedure in that it makes use of a series of GNSS waypoints, but unlike RNP does not have the same degree of navigational precision monitoring, and as such the minima are higher (which to the passengers means greater likelihood of ending up in Dunedin. Or Invercargill. ).
On a completely different topic,
Quote: Air New Zealand (ANZ) will replace Qantas Airways as its maintenance provider in the Australian cities of Sydney and Melbourne.
An ANZ spokesman in Auckland says Cathay Pacific Airways will replace Qantas in Sydney and John Holland Aviation Services will replace Qantas in Melbourne.
FlyPacificBlue From New Zealand, joined Apr 2009, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 77, posted (4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8290 times:
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 67): What does "LMC" stand for? I flew standby a few weeks back and was confirmed 30 mins before departure. Didn't realise the new Pier B gates were so very VERY far away and had to actually run after customs to make the flight.
Last Minute Change. As DJ738 mentioned it is when changes are required to be made to the load sheet as a result of accepting guests after close out. We are usually very accomadationg and can accept all the way up to 15mins prior to STD, however it will depend on baggage, security screening queues etc.
Yep if you check-in right on close out at AKL international, do have your running shoes handy as it is just ridiculously far and will definately require you a fast walk or run. Passengers often complain to us about the distance, but I quietly reply saying "try doing this walk EVERY day?" That often works
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 67): AIAL really went the budget route on this one, which is a real shame. It is cool seeing 4 PacBlue 738s all bunched up like that though.
Sunday morning is even better as there are 5 DJ 738's all parked at Pier B. The 5th A/C is parked at stand 17 whcih is a remote parking stand next to gate 16L
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 3448 posts, RR: 9 Reply 79, posted (4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8129 times:
Quoting TG992 (Reply 66):
Here is it, I will not be able to leave this up for long due to bandwith issues
hahahaha LMAO thats classic
They haven't handled their launch properly in terms of informing people how they operate... that said for a LCC they HAVE done the right thing in sticking to their guns. People just need to stop being lazy and get themselves to the airport on time!
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 17 Reply 80, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7781 times:
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 79): They haven't handled their launch properly in terms of informing people how they operate...
I guess people have just expected it to be like any other carrier serving this country domestically. And I also wonder how this will affect other flights like QF's mainstream such as connecting to and from QF25/26. On the JQ flights they say "welcome onboard JQxxx as codeshare with QF2xxx". I'm sure there would be some people who refuse to fly QF because of their JQ experience.
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Cchan From South Africa, joined May 2003, 939 posts, RR: 2 Reply 81, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7626 times:
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 79): People just need to stop being lazy and get themselves to the airport on time!
People can also be late because of circumstances beyond their control, or unexpected delays on the way to the airport.
From reading the discussion here it seems to me that it would be rather unwise to choose JQ domestic flights if there are activities planned in the few hours before or after the flight, or if connecting to/from an international flight. Say, if the MAF search takes unexpectedly long, and the connecting passenger gets to the check-in desk 25 min before the flight, JQ won't have much sympathy for the poor fellow. Is JQ positively avoiding business and international transfer passengers? These are the people who are often a bit late for check-in.
I have little doubt that Air NZ is watching Jetstar closely - and, properly, taking every advantage they can get - but if there is some coordinated "dirty tricks" campaign, then Mr. Buchanan has recourse for this, as Virgin Atlantic did with British Airways.
Most of Jetstar's problems seem to be of their own making and it seems petty to try and blame a rival.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1076 posts, RR: 2 Reply 85, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7384 times:
Quoting Cchan (Reply 81): Is JQ positively avoiding business and international transfer passengers? These are the people who are often a bit late for check-in.
JQ's schedule and frequency does not make it at all attractive to business customers, and with so aircraft in the fleet it can't hope to attract them by flying the right services at the right times. So I doubt if it's trying for them at all.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 83): Police called to JQs CHC check-in desks
Yes, when I checked in for JQ at AKL on Sat afternoon 27 June there was a police presence that stayed most of the day (we were there nearly six hours longer than anticipated . . . ). All very low-key, but nevertheless a presence. I wondered at the time if it was "just in case".
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
JQ has got no one else but itself to blame for all their problems and JQs CEO comments sounds like words from a desperate man who is keen on impressing his boss. When JQ's CEO decides to grow up and stop making up excuses and lies to cover his backside then he will see the problems going away.
The comments I got back today from some friends who flew to AKL this weekend with JQ for a conference wasn't good and they weren't impressed with the delays they experienced both ways
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Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 3448 posts, RR: 9 Reply 87, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7117 times:
Quoting Cchan (Reply 81): Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 79):
People just need to stop being lazy and get themselves to the airport on time!
People can also be late because of circumstances beyond their control, or unexpected delays on the way to the airport.
So they need to be organised and allow themselves enough time for such circumstances.
I have flown from and worked from/at AKL airport for many years and in that time the latest I have ever been is about 15 minutes for a shift and that was because I hadn't allowed my self any extra time over the 20minute drive (at the time and there was an accident holding traffic up). If you live within 15 minutes of the airport allow yourself 25 minutes. If you live 30 mins from the airport allow 45-50 mins, if you live 45 mins (which is most of Auckland) then allow yourself about 70 mins. These times are for travel to the airport. You should plan on arriving at least 10 minutes before checkin closes. So for most Aucklanders who love within 45 mins drive they should leave 1h20m before checkin closes (or 2 hours from departure time). This would mean at most they will have to wait in the airport 1h 30m but in reality less time than this and also after you takeout the actual checkin time and security and boarding then the amount of wasted time is really only about 20mins.... not hard.
Cchan From South Africa, joined May 2003, 939 posts, RR: 2 Reply 88, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7058 times:
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 87): So they need to be organised and allow themselves enough time for such circumstances.
Theoretically yes, but a lot of times people are held up in unforeseen circumstances, and say, if you have a meeting before you fly and the meeting ran for longer than scheduled, you can't say to the boss "I am going to allow more time for check-in" then get up and leave, or the boss will make sure there is no next time!
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1076 posts, RR: 2 Reply 89, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6983 times:
The JQ check-in issue is just a sideshow - people will get used to that and will accept that these are the rules that a LCC runs by - I have no doubt.
What they won't get used to is being treated badly by a company that seems impervious to the human aspects of travel and, especially, the human cost of delays. Any airline, even a LCC, needs good press, a good image, to thrive in this kind of market place. No one will persuade me that image doesn't matter, and if the airline truly thinks that, then I'm afraid it will learn that it does the hard way.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
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