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W09: V Australia Brisbane Hong Kong  
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9306 times:

Just obtained the following schedule for W09 from our schedule coordinator. VOz has filed for slots in Hong Kong. This is not confirmation they are starting the route.

VAU17 YBBN VHHH 0400Z-1250Z 1234567 361B77W
VAU16 VHHH YBBN 1530Z-0000Z 1234567 361B77W

Connects nicely with VIR200/201 to Heathrow.

[Edited 2009-06-29 05:29:06]


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9275 times:

Good. Gets the stress off the LAX routing. Horrible times though

[Edited 2009-06-29 05:48:31]


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineVHTJE From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9227 times:
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Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 1):
Horrible times though

Could that be maybe to meet up with Virgin Atlantic flights to/from HKG?

For example, VAU016 departing HKG at 15:30 would be a connection with VS238 which arrives in HKG at 12:35pm.

Similarly VAU17 arrives at HKG at 12:50pm would be a good connection for VS239 which departs HKG to LHR at 14:20.

Interesting alternative for BrisVegas travellers hoping to get to LHR. But I agree the times are horrible.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9194 times:

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 1):
Horrible times though

The Z suffix means the times are UTC. This is standard for international scheduling. You may want to reconsider your view.

[Edited 2009-06-29 05:51:57]


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9169 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 1):
Horrible times though

??? In local times leave BNE @ 1400 Arr HKG@ 2050, dep HKG @ 2330 arr BNE @ 10000, doesn't seem too bad, as Cloudyapple says good for LHR connections.

Gemuser

Damm Cloydyapple beat me!



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9111 times:

My apologies. I didnt even notice the Z zulu. Ok, great times. I hope it comes off


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 8460 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Thread starter):
This is not confirmation they are starting the route.

True- there still has been no IASC filing for capcity on the route.

Now the big question will be where is the aircraft coming from.

Is it going to come from BNE-LAX (as that route seems to have low loads) or will it be the MEL-LAX flight that gets sacrificed?

I know there was rumour of MEL0LAX getting scrapped due to the ground handlers laying off people, but that could also have been a resukt of them not launching until SEP and paying staff for doing nothing.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 8423 times:
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Quoting Gemuser (Reply 4):

That timing certainly looks good and provides excellent connections from all Pacific Blue services from New Zealand, but has a wait for connections back to New Zealand


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8352 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
That timing certainly looks good and provides excellent connections from all Pacific Blue services from New Zealand, but has a wait for connections back to New Zealand

They will still get pax even with the long conection. You'd be surpirsed how many PAX I have seen coming off the VA flight in the AM connecting to the SYD-AKL flight at 6.50pm...

LAX-SYD-AKL with a 10 hour layover in SYD! Crazy, but people are doing it.


User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8049 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 6):
So it seems that while QF and BA prefers using BKK and SIN as their Kangaroo Route scissor hub, Virgin group is getting smart by going the HKG route

SQ wants to operate its own metal into oz. Hence, with the 49% stake, they can keep VS out of SIN. But they do codeshare.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8883 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7991 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Thread starter):
VAU17 YBBN VHHH 0400Z-1250Z 1234567 361B77W
VAU16 VHHH YBBN 1530Z-0000Z 1234567 361B77W

In my view that schedule will not work, not enough sector time northbound, and not enough time in the turn around to prevent a slip into the next sector. As you know, midnight in HKG is a very busy time for departures.

Quoting VHTJE (Reply 2):
But I agree the times are horrible.

The other operators on that route with direct flights, at about the same time

BNE-HKG

QF097 0110Z-1010Z
CX102 0320Z-1215Z

VA017 0400Z-1250Z

HKG-BNE

QF098 1515Z-2350Z
CX103 1540Z-0010Z

VA016 1530Z-0000Z



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7974 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 17):
not enough sector time northbound,

Do you mean as in flight time? If so then their times are pretty similar to CX who use an A330.

As for on ground time if 2h20 is not enough would would be ideal??


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7049 times:
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Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 29):
This is where I think VA made a mistake. They should have aimed to match the VS product from start up.

in fairness to them they couldnt . When VS and NZ came to a licensing agreement for the use of VS J class beds one condition was that NZ would have exclusive rights to them on TransPacific routes , so DJ could not have the same product for Australia - USA .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6806 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 13):
This is where I think VA made a mistake. They should have aimed to match the VS product from start up.

To be honest, the VA beds are not that really that much of a poor cousin to VS.... from what I ahve heard people that have flown VA been raving about the VA service and product.


User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

Do Cathay fly their 747s/777s into BNE on the 10x weekly frequencies they currently do?

QF is all A333 (and less than daily), no?

77W = Big plane, likely the biggest on the route.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6742 times:



Quoting Tayser (Reply 15):
Do Cathay fly their 747s/777s into BNE on the 10x weekly frequencies they currently do?

Nope A330/A340

Quoting Tayser (Reply 15):
77W = Big plane, likely the biggest on the route.

Yes - but remember VA will only (likely) fly from BNE, so that 77W will be filled with ADL/PER/MEL/AKL/CHC/WLG, where as QF also fly from PER/MEL/SYD direct... so I'm sure the Virgin "group" will be able to fill the seats... lets not also forget that they will be adding an LHR connection thru VS so you then pic up additional pax as well as AKL-LHR, SYD-LHR, CHC-LHR ... etc etc


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6717 times:
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Quoting ANstar (Reply 14):
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 13):
This is where I think VA made a mistake. They should have aimed to match the VS product from start up.

Hi ANstar ,I did not post the comment that you have quoted above



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6644 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 16):
Yes - but remember VA will only (likely) fly from BNE, so that 77W will be filled with ADL/PER/MEL/AKL/CHC/WLG, where as QF also fly from PER/MEL/SYD direct... so I'm sure the Virgin "group" will be able to fill the seats... lets not also forget that they will be adding an LHR connection thru VS so you then pic up additional pax as well as AKL-LHR, SYD-LHR, CHC-LHR ... etc etc

Pretty ordinary when opting for a two stop trip to LHR with VA/VS via HKG and BNE given there are so many one stop options with far more established carriers.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6522 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):
In my view that schedule will not work, not enough sector time northbound

That's 8h50 which is about the same as CPA102 at 8h55?

Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):
CX102 0320Z-1215Z



Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):
and not enough time in the turn around to prevent a slip into the next sector. As you know, midnight in HKG is a very busy time for departures.

I don't think so. It is true the North Apron is busy late night but the rush really begins at 2330L and before 2330 there aren't that many departures and even fewer from the North Apron.
  • AFR (2305/N36)
  • KLM (2305/S35)
  • BAW (2315/E17)
  • SWR (2315/S21)
  • DLH (2320/S43)
  • VIR (2325/N60))
    There are a few tows on the North Apron though.

    As long as they don't get caught up in the midst of the rush beyond 2330 they should be fine with the 2h40 turnaround.

    VIR201 has almost the same turnaround departing 5min earlier at 2325 from N60. If VAU parks somewhere close to the VIR but on the other side in the West Apron, say W61 or W63, even S35 shifting the KLM along, that should minimize any risk of being delayed. Worst is if they are next to each other in N62 or N36 and calling for push together.

    And don't forget the North Satellite opens later this year and things will change.



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    User currently offlineWowpeter From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

    I rackon this is a smart move. Considering that Voz product on their 77W will be better than the CX product on this route (not sure about QF). Since one of CX flight for this route is via Cairns (with regional 330) and that is fitted with regional business class (which is crap) and old EY. While the other nonstop to Brisbane (343) has the old business class and also old EY... So when compare to the Voz offer (if they do indeed start this route), it will be a major improvement to CX offering, especially if they offer similar price. But of course, that's not to say, CX can't change aircraft to offer a better product on this route, but as of right now, I see this is the best Oz to HK route for any airline to try to compete with the existing carrier.

    User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
    Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6265 times:



    Quoting Tayser (Reply 17):
    Pretty ordinary when opting for a two stop trip to LHR with VA/VS via HKG and BNE

    not ideal, but there will be people that do it...

    If people are willing to fly AKL-SYD-LAX on VA then doing SYD-BNE-HKG-LHR will not be much different.


    User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 6176 times:

    Virgin Atlantic started their second daily flight between LHR and HKG because there was so much competition for seats between HKG passengers and SYD passengers. The VA BNE HKG service will make this situation worse, because the second daily flight does not give good connections onto Australian flights. The BNE passengers will be trying to get onto flights full with SYD passengers.

    BNE-HKG will not be a very strong O/D market - most people will be travelling through to UK.

    I think this is not going to be a MEL-HKG service because VS have said they are interested in doing LHR-PVG-MEL.

    And, old question, but how will V Australia do all the flying they want to do with only four planes? They still have not said officially that they are going to postpone MEL-LAX, and Australia to South Africa is still there.

    And, now that there is a possibility that VA will do BNE HKG, does that mean JQ will have to do an automatic decision to fly the route as well?


    User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6060 times:



    Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 21):
    Virgin Atlantic started their second daily flight between LHR and HKG because there was so much competition for seats between HKG passengers and SYD passengers. The VA BNE HKG service will make this situation worse, because the second daily flight does not give good connections onto Australian flights. The BNE passengers will be trying to get onto flights full with SYD passengers.

    A good question. I don't think you would want to connect the flight with the second LHR-HKG flight though, the times in/out of BNE would be in the middle of the night. Perhaps the second VS flight will be re-timed to be about the same time as the first one?

    I think it is unlikely that VA will have a daily service to HKG, at least initially, so VS are a little better off than when they had the single LHR-HKG flight.

    Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 21):
    And, old question, but how will V Australia do all the flying they want to do with only four planes? They still have not said officially that they are going to postpone MEL-LAX, and Australia to South Africa is still there.

    Perhaps I haven't been paying attention, but aren't they still getting the 7 planes that they initially ordered?
    2 planes: daily SYD-LAX
    1 plane: 3x weekly BNE-LAX
    1 plane: 3x weekly MEL-LAX
    1 plane: 3x weekly Oz-SA
    1 plane: 3x weekly BNE-HKG
    1 plane: maintenance??

    This route is needed to stop their 6th plane from being unemployed.


    User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5983 times:



    Quoting Thegeek (Reply 22):
    Perhaps I haven't been paying attention, but aren't they still getting the 7 planes that they initially ordered?

    Two have been deferred.
    The 4th is due about late August 2009
    The 5th has been deferred until 2011
    The 6th has been deferred until 2012
    The 7th remains on order for October 2010

    This BNE-HKG-BNE Northern Winter 2009 slot application relates to the 4th aircraft as the next one after that is October 2010. Looks like MEL-LAX is cancelled until then at least.

    PA515


    User currently offlineIndianicworld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2921 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5926 times:



    Quoting PA515 (Reply 23):
    This BNE-HKG-BNE Northern Winter 2009 slot application relates to the 4th aircraft as the next one after that is October 2010. Looks like MEL-LAX is cancelled until then at least.

    VA has expressed in an article last month that MEL-LAX is still going ahead as planned. It is also still in the system with no changes made so I have my doubts that the MEL aircraft will be used. Maybe we will see BNE-LAX cancelled to make way for this flight. Who knows what they are planning. They have announced plans in the past for South Africa but nothing has come of that yet so only time will tell.

    MEL-LAX should be a good route for them, however the 777-300ERs range will definately be tested on an ongoing basis on this route.


    25 Jetfuel : The range of the 777-300ER is 14,685 km. Qantas use the 744ER on the same route which has a range of 14,205km. So I dont think it is an issue... I al
    26 PA515 : Cloudyapple. When is a decision on the HKG slots expected. Thanks. PA515
    27 ANstar : Well the additional LHR-HKG flight from VS will be kept for O&D I presume so I don't see the deal if VS200/VS201has a few more from a BNE feeder.....
    28 IndianicWorld : Abit doubtful that many pax will go fromMEL to BNE to get on a HKG flight, with so many options on the route already. With 3 daily CXI and a daily QF
    29 ANstar : Don't be so quick to right it off... I mean if people are willing to fly AKL-SYD-LAX with DJ/VA surely they will fly MEL/SYD-BNE-HGK with them.,
    30 Jetfuel : BNE picks up all the other cities that fly into BNE too. Adelaide Canberra Hobart Rockhampton Sunshine Coast Newcastle Fraser Coast (Hervey Bay) Town
    31 Sydscott : Is it just me or is VA seeming to be a tad desperate to find a use for their 773's now that the Trans Pac strategy has tanked in terms of making them
    32 Jetfuel : NO. VA isn't sitting on it's hands. Smart business operators move with the times. We are in one of the worst ever declines in the airline business. E
    33 Zeke : I put a correction in a post up the list but it does not seem to be here any more, the 30 min edit time for my original post had closed. I said I mad
    34 Smi0006 : Interesting there is another thread (although no source yet) stating that VS will be reducing its HKG route by one daily over winter, I wonder if and
    35 ANstar : VS200/201 will rmeian as it gooes on to SYD, so it will be the flight (not sure of the number) that arrives before it that would likely get cut.
    36 Alangirvan : The VS LHR-HKG flight that is being cut is the one that leaves LHR late afternoon, arrives HKG, about lunch time. Then leaves HKG early afternoon, arr
    37 Post contains links Mariner : Several sources. Here's one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...t-risk-as-Virgin-cuts-flights.html Telegraph: "Virgin said it was not operating i
    38 Sydscott : I didn't say they were sitting on their hands and starting BNE-HKG in the middle of one of the worse declines in history to place where the local bas
    39 SunriseValley : Which is 7900+- nm. According to the most recent load/ range tables the ZFW for that range is about 450K pounds , after allowing about 383K pounds fo
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