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Air Europa Returns To Salvador, Bahia  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

Spain Air Europa announced it will resume MAD-SSA flights from 1 November 2009 with the 2-class B767 which will operate 3 weekly. Air Europa axed MAD-SSA in March 2009 but has reconsidered its decision.

UX083 MAD-SSA 16.00 21.25
UX083 SSA-MAD 23.25 12.15

It is good to see SSA bak in UX network, but it seems Air Europa is taking a lot of confusing decisions in its network building. I am yet to see whether MAD-JFK will bring any profit...

Rgs,

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

Thanks for the very good news, Hardi...

Surely this one will be a stealer from JJ's SSA-CDG weekly non-stop. Perhaps they should consider to boost their Northeast-Europe non-stop offer, creating dedicated 3x weekly REC-SSA-CDG to face AirEurope move.



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User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Good news for both, North-East Brazil and UX. They're getting consolidate like the second Spanish carrier, a real good news to see UX is offering or taking up new long-haul routes.

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
but it seems Air Europa is taking a lot of confusing decisions in its network building

UX is not by size IB neither AF. They could prefer give their 767's to hire (Garuda last year, for instance) before lose money in a route with low loads or low yield. I hope UX can make profit this time in the MAD-SSA route. It's a good news an European carrier, other than TP, is serving North-East Brazil to Europe non-stop.

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
am yet to see whether MAD-JFK will bring any profit...

No much, but there is still room in the MAD-NYC market. Better to try again with JFK instead to resume the Chinese market which even IB could fail. UX did a brave movement when trying the Asian market ...as brave as naive.

UX is improving and consolidate market share step by step. I think they are on the right path.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3575 times:
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Quoting SKY1 (Reply 2):
UX is not by size IB neither AF. They could prefer give their 767's to hire (Garuda last year, for instance) before lose money in a route with low loads or low yield. I hope UX can make profit this time in the MAD-SSA route. It's a good news an European carrier, other than TP, is serving North-East Brazil to Europe non-stop.

All they need to obtain good profits out of SSA is to focus on long term commitment with the market, use G3 network to provide some connections to other places in the Northeast and try to increase frequencies in the future.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Hi Lipe.

I agree with you, but also must be taken into consideration SSA is mainly a leisure destination, and yields are so-so. In fact UX is member of Globalia, a Spain's large turist company. UX as the air carrier of the group is serving leisure destination such as SSA. I have my doubts about if they as an airline itself could be interested in flying some routes with a very average and/or seasonal performance.

I hope they can serving SSA for good, anyhow. I'd like to have the chance of flying North-East Brazil from Madrid non-stop, and like you say, synergies with GOL or any other airline in order to get code-share for other destinations within Brazil might be an Air Europa's smart movement.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3329 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 1):
Surely this one will be a stealer from JJ's SSA-CDG weekly non-stop.

As mentioned above UX flight to SSA will not affect TAM CDG-SSA because it will mainly focus on holiday package from Spain.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 2):
I hope UX can make profit this time in the MAD-SSA route. It's a good news an European carrier, other than TP, is serving North-East Brazil to Europe non-stop.

IB started to fly MAD-SSA weekly A330 operated by Iberworld in June. This means UX will now need to compete with IB. It is the cost it will pay for withdrawing from the route for a few months and lacking commitment.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 4):
SSA is mainly a leisure destination, and yields are so-so. In fact UX is member of Globalia, a Spain's large turist company. UX as the air carrier of the group is serving leisure destination such as SSA.

I agree the focus will mainly be holiday-oriented pax, but UX European network will also allow for some connections.

Rgs,


User currently offlineGatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3282 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
IB started to fly MAD-SSA weekly A330 operated by Iberworld in June. This means UX will now need to compete with IB. It is the cost it will pay for withdrawing from the route for a few months and lacking commitment.

Well, actually the carrier is Iberworld and Iberia is just adding its code to the flight. Iberia is not operating to SSA.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 3227 times:
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Quoting SKY1 (Reply 4):
I agree with you, but also must be taken into consideration SSA is mainly a leisure destination, and yields are so-so. In fact UX is member of Globalia, a Spain's large turist company. UX as the air carrier of the group is serving leisure destination such as SSA. I have my doubts about if they as an airline itself could be interested in flying some routes with a very average and/or seasonal performance.

It's leisure, i agree, but there's space to obtain a premium giving the fact of the lack of flights. TP just obtain the same fares as they got for example to GIG and GRU even for a flight 2 hours shorter. UX can manage to obtain a good yield.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
As mentioned above UX flight to SSA will not affect TAM CDG-SSA because it will mainly focus on holiday package from Spain

In fact is just TAM customers and a very limited number of leisure customers. This flight even with the stop got a good quantitiy of customers from Sao Paulo and south of Brazil.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 3192 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
As mentioned above UX flight to SSA will not affect TAM CDG-SSA because it will mainly focus on holiday package from Spain.

Well, but UX's flights having more frequencies will offer SSA passengers going to Europe better options, even considering their are focusing more in leisure traffic, as you mentioned.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
UX can manage to obtain a good yield.

I agree. How is their C-product? They will have to face TP's good lie-flat seats..



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 3182 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 8):
I agree. How is their C-product? They will have to face TP's good lie-flat seats..

But be in mind, the good yields come more from Y (which is huge) than C
Nowadays C in many Brazil-Europe are sold at very low fares and compared to some Y fares, is not so interesting.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 3131 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 8):
I agree. How is their C-product? They will have to face TP's good lie-flat seats..



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Nowadays C in many Brazil-Europe are sold at very low fares and compared to some Y fares, is not so interesting.

This is not true. C is still much higher yielding than Y, you cannot compare. In Europe you cannot buy C to Brazil for less than EUR 3,000 (except for TAP and IB which sell for EUR 2400). Most cases the discounted C fares comes with full of restrictions.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3081 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
This is not true. C is still much higher yielding than Y, you cannot compare. In Europe you cannot buy C to Brazil for less than EUR 3,000 (except for TAP and IB which sell for EUR 2400). Most cases the discounted C fares comes with full of restrictions.

Yes, but i mentioned Brazil-Europe. TAM is selling MAD at US$ 2,200, LHR at US$ 2,200, IB and TP the same, LH at US$ 2,500, AZ at US$ 2,100.... Y you can't find for less than US$ 700.
Lets say, where you place 6C in same airlines like TAM you can place 24Y. As Y is not 4x cheaper than C, i would say the yields are not that bigger



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3746 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

UX's LGW-MAD flight feeds quite nicely into their MAD-SSA flight.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 3023 times:
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Quoting Richardw (Reply 12):
UX's LGW-MAD flight feeds quite nicely into their MAD-SSA flight.

I'm sure all around Europe there's space for SSA. Bahia is very active in marketing itself



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 3023 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
Yes, but i mentioned Brazil-Europe. TAM is selling MAD at US$ 2,200, LHR at US$ 2,200, IB and TP the same, LH at US$ 2,500, AZ at US$ 2,100.... Y you can't find for less than US$ 700.
Lets say, where you place 6C in same airlines like TAM you can place 24Y. As Y is not 4x cheaper than C, i would say the yields are not that bigger

I disagree with your reasoning, only if the airline is upgrading from Y to C then I agree otherwise there is no way to compare C and Y yields. The above fares have plenty of restrictions and not all C seats sell for the above fares. You cannot assume they are selling all their seats for the above fares. For example, if half the C seats are sold in Europe for EUR3,500, if 2 seats are sold for full business fare then we are talking about EUR 5,000...and so on...

The issue with UX flying to SSA is that probably it will not manage to sell C then the equation is different.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2914 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
where you place 6C in same airlines like TAM you can place 24Y. As Y is not 4x cheaper than C, i would say the yields are not that bigger



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
I disagree with your reasoning, only if the airline is upgrading from Y to C then I agree otherwise there is no way to compare C and Y yields. The above fares have plenty of restrictions and not all C seats sell for the above fares. You cannot assume they are selling all their seats for the above fares. For example, if half the C seats are sold in Europe for EUR3,500, if 2 seats are sold for full business fare then we are talking about EUR 5,000...and so on...

24Y istead of 6C? Isn't that too much? I'd if it is not 16Y/6C... Anyway, you can't just make this math and asume that they'd be doing better business by replacing C with Y, since many pax just won't fly Y if they have C options with other carriers...

In UX's case, as Hardi mentioned, I agree that it will be hard for them to sell a good amount of C, mainly with good yields. Anyone one know the config on their B763?



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User currently onlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4396 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2913 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 6):
the carrier is Iberworld and Iberia is just adding its code to the flight

As far as I know, MAD-CUN is also operated by IberWorld on behalf of IB.
This fact may be likely justified for the own characteristic of Cancun as a leisure station where the business model followed by IB is not plenty adjusted there.
It's not hard to imagine any correlation between Salvador de Bahia and Cancun merely as leisure stations for IB mainline.

Regards.



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