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ORD-HKG On Anyone But UA?  
User currently offlineNomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 444 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7031 times:

When the economy recovers (which it will some day, need to bee optomistic), will someone besides UA fly ORD-HKG?

There have been threads about AA and CX starting this route, but for various reason (pilot contracts, aircraft, economy, SARS, Swine Flu, etc.), no one else has started service on the route. Oasis Hong Kong was planning this route, but I hear there are a few 744's in the desert.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

I'MO AA should have entered HKG a long time ago, and if they are going to do so I'd bet on ORD, as it would have better feeds (due to polar routing) and less competition than any of their other hubs. Dragonair being part of OW now makes it a bigger incentive for AA to fly to HKG than in the past, as it offers much more routes to mid-sized and smaller Chinese cities. And CX Cargo already serves ORD, which is a good sign in terms of them being able to have supplementary revenue for a potential passenger flight.

User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

AA...doubtful.

Look for a CX 77W Daily when the economy rebounds suitably. AA can codeshare.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6548 times:

Does CX have any 77E? If so, maybe they can use it to test the waters before upgauging to a 77W?

Looking at CX's route network, they're relatively O&D oriented (compared to, say, EK). ORD is a tough choice for CX due to small oriental Asian population, and their SFO/LAX/JFK flights already provide sufficient connectivity via AA to most large and mid-sized US cities. Maybe you can't do 1-stop HKG-SDF, but then again how big is that market?


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8280 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5119 times:
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Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 3):

Does CX have any 77E? If so, maybe they can use it to test the waters before upgauging to a 77W?

NO


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4590 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 3):
Does CX have any 77E?



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 4):
NO

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 77E? 777-200LR is 77L...
CO does (did?) EWR-HKG which is slightly longer with the 772ER, which CX operates anyway, so if we talk 777-200ER, yes they could.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4539 times:



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 2):
AA...doubtful

Why would they? They are in the same alliance as CK. UA would be the only other airline except for CO. When CO joins StarA would they extend Mike to Hong Kong or would they run T7's from the west coast?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4539 times:



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 5):
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 77E? 777-200LR is 77L...

A 77E is a 777-200ER

77W 777-300ER
773 777-300
77L 777-200LR
77E 777-200ER
772 777-200



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8280 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4539 times:
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Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 5):
CX have any 77E?



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 4):
NO


Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 77E? 777-200LR is 77L...
CO does (did?) EWR-HKG which is slightly longer with the 772ER, which CX operates anyway, so if we talk 777-200ER, yes they could.

CX has 777-200(non ER), 777-300(non ER & 777-300ER. The 773ER( also 77W) is flown to the USA and other distant points. The others are used regionally and to teh middle east. CX doesn't have 772ER, the most widely operated of the 777 family. The 772LR is the most capable, flying up to 18 hours, it is a niche plane.


User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4514 times:



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 5):
CO does (did?) EWR-HKG which is slightly longer with the 772ER, which CX operates anyway, so if we talk 777-200ER, yes they could.

Yea i just double checked that CX doesn't have 777-200ER (77E). They operate JFK-HKG via 777-300ER (77W).

So I guess CX faces an equipment dilemma - A343, which is the right size but woefully weight restricted for ORD-HKG, or 77W, which is a powerful workhouse but too many seats for a new route.

Does anyone have stats on how UA's ORD-HKG flight is doing? Maybe the market is not large enough for a UA 744 and CX 77W to coexist profitably... who knows  Embarrassment


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4480 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 9):
Does anyone have stats on how UA's ORD-HKG flight is doing? Maybe the market is not large enough for a UA 744 and CX 77W to coexist profitably... who knows

Historically the flight has done very well for UA, but who knows how it's doing now with the recession. Hong Kong is a premium business market and I would expect yields to suffer in a downturn.

Over the last few years, UA has tinkered with additional capacity at HKG. I believe they went to a 10x or 12x weekly frequency from ORD for a while, but cut the extra frequency to add LAX-HKG (which is now gone again). For the time being, I think they're going to hold tight with ORD-HKG and SFO-HKG.


User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1185 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4446 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 3):
Looking at CX's route network, they're relatively O&D oriented (compared to, say, EK). ORD is a tough choice for CX due to small oriental Asian population, and their SFO/LAX/JFK flights already provide sufficient connectivity via AA to most large and mid-sized US cities. Maybe you can't do 1-stop HKG-SDF, but then again how big is that market?

Umm I doubt there's that much of a market between SDF and HKG unless you're a UPS package.  wink 
About ORD-HKG, I've always heard that its one of UA's most profitable routes (correct me if I'm wrong) although that may not be the case anymore due to the huge cost of fuel to operate it. I do think there's room for another carrier, whether it be AA or CX (my guess would be CX due to pilot issues with AA)...however there's the high risk of yields being eroded. But if another carrier were to operate this route alongside UA I think the 787 would be ideal.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4288 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 9):
Does anyone have stats on how UA's ORD-HKG flight is doing?

Hong Kong has been one of the stronger Asia market for United.

The LF on the ORD-HKG services in 2008 were as follows.

Jan- 88.6%
Feb- 76.2%
Mar- 91.7%
Apr- 85.4%
May- 89.8%
Jun- 90.7%
Jul- 86.0%
Aug- 83.5%
Sep- 78.7%
Oct- 82.7%
Nov- 85.2%
Dec- 85.1%



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

How does UA do in the F and J seats? They can pack Y, but the $ is up front.

AA had this problem with NGO and SQ with ORD-AMS-SIN. You can pack the back, but need some seats up front to make it profitable, especially with the environment we are in.


User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3508 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 1):
Dragonair being part of OW now makes it a bigger incentive for AA to fly to HKG than in the past, as it offers much more routes to mid-sized and smaller Chinese cities.

North America to mid- or small Chinese cities via Hong Kong? That'd be like going from Asia to North American cities via Miami. HKG may be better for on-ward connections to South East Asia, lke SIN, BKK.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3274 times:



Quoting B2443 (Reply 14):

North America to mid- or small Chinese cities via Hong Kong? That'd be like going from Asia to North American cities via Miami. HKG may be better for on-ward connections to South East Asia, lke SIN, BKK.

In terms of AA, your other option would be connecting with JL in NRT (with limited flight options to Chinese secondary markets), or fly to PVG and connect to your final destination in China. They have no partners flying from PVG non-stop within China, only CX and KA where you'd have to connect through HKG anyways. So your options are a lot more limited than the USA example you mention.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3152 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 6):
Why would they? They are in the same alliance as CK.

Depends on their strategy. They have been Asia-phobic over the past few years for sure, passing off their pax at NRT.

One reason CX doesn't have 77Es is because when that plane was selling like hot cakes CX didn't completely believe in operating twin-engine jets long haul. They've long had 772/773 for regional routes. This philosophy changed after the efficiency of the 77W became apparent over the A346.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 15):
They have no partners flying from PVG non-stop within China,

I am not understanding why we are talking about PVG here...anyway I thought AA had MU at PVG...since when AA dropped them? Even if PVG is an odd ball for domestic travel in China, it still beats HKG in terms of going else where in China.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 15):
So your options are a lot more limited than the USA example you mention.

limited in that MIA has more connections inward USA on AA and HKG does or does not to China on CX/KA?

My analogy was why would you fly from Asia via MIA to connect to, say, CLE, with MIA at the South eastern corner of the country. My real question was why people from North America would go via HKG to connect to other Chinese cities since 99.99% of Chinese cities are north of HKG and it takes longer travel time to get to HKG in the first place? HKG is not geographically ideal for connection into China from America, just as MIA, or ATL (DL is suspending ATL-PVG as an example/result) is not geographically suited to connect to other part of the US, from Asia that is.

[Edited 2009-07-01 11:33:54]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24817 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2805 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 15):
In terms of AA, your other option would be connecting with JL in NRT (with limited flight options to Chinese secondary markets), or fly to PVG and connect to your final destination in China. They have no partners flying from PVG non-stop within China, only CX and KA where you'd have to connect through HKG anyways. So your options are a lot more limited than the USA example you mention.

I would be surprised if AA doesn't have an interline ticketing agreement with all major Chinese carriers, or at the very least CA/CZ/MU. People seem to incorrectly think that airlines can only interline with their alliance partners.


User currently offlineIahredhead From China, joined May 2006, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2618 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 15):
North America to mid- or small Chinese cities via Hong Kong? That'd be like going from Asia to North American cities via Miami. HKG may be better for on-ward connections to South East Asia, lke SIN, BKK.

You're right. It does involve some overflying, but it's a very popular choice. I'm working and living in Nanjing and the KA/CX option via HKG to both North America and Europe are extremely popular among ex-pats for many reasons: the flights are operated out of NKG daily; KA/CX have a good, consistent product; the cabin crew, pilots, and HKG staff all speak English; etc...

In fact, I'm flying to Houston in July and am doing NKG - HKG - SFO - IAH. It's a great flight on CX over the Pacific.

Scott



"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
User currently offlineORDnHKG From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2383 times:



Quoting Nomorerjs (Reply 13):
How does UA do in the F and J seats? They can pack Y, but the $ is up front.

This is the hardest route to upgrade from Y to C, so you know the answer !

UA is already charging a premium for this route, so even if C load is low, they are already earning quite a bit when Y is packed. The fare is substianially higher if you do ORD-HKG RT than one stop thru SFO or NRT. There are actually companies paying to fly C on this route to HKG and connect to southern China cities like Shenzhen, Dongguan and CAN.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 10):
Over the last few years, UA has tinkered with additional capacity at HKG. I believe they went to a 10x or 12x weekly frequency from ORD for a while, but cut the extra frequency to add LAX-HKG (which is now gone again). For the time being, I think they're going to hold tight with ORD-HKG and SFO-HKG.

Actually UA dropped the 2nd ORD-HKG in order to fly the 2nd SFO-HKG, not LAX-HKG. LAX-HKG is much later and a different aircraft as it is a 744. The 2nd ORD/SFO-HKG is 777.


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