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BA Concorde MIA Schedule?  
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 728 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

Hi

I am trying to find the flight numbers, days of operation and times for the British Airways Concorde service that operated in the 80's and early 90's to Miami. (please don't say this has been discussed many times, I have spent the best part of two days looking at every topic that includes the world concorde and can't find it.)

Two other questions, but not so important.

One of the posts that I saw stated that for a time AF had 10 services a week from CDG-NYC. Does anyone have the schedule for the flight other than AF2/1?

Also

Does anyone have the time, days of operation and flight numbers for the AF service to MEX via IAD or via JFK?

Thanks in advance.

Alex

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 745 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5677 times:

IIRC it was 3 x weekly via IAD, on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays.  Smile


Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

As stated above, it was linked to the thrice weekly IAD route, operated between 1976 and 1994.

The MIA part was between 1984-91.

Here is G-BOAE's schedule 3-4 Jan 1987

3rd Jan 1987
BA189 LHR-IAD / IAD-MIA
4th Jan 1987
BA188 MIA-IAD / IAD-LHR

So the normal flight numbers for services between London and Washington, and back, were also used on the MIA leg.

Unlike the BN crewed IAD-DFW service in 1979/80, the route to/from MIA was supersonic, since the route was mostly over-water.


User currently offlineBURules From United States of America, joined May 2000, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5505 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
Unlike the BN crewed IAD-DFW service in 1979/80, the route to/from MIA was supersonic, since the route was mostly over-water.

Sweet. I had no idea. What was that flight time?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5481 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
Unlike the BN crewed IAD-DFW service in 1979/80, the route to/from MIA was supersonic, since the route was mostly over-water.

The big difference is that they couldn't carry local IAD-MIA passengers as they could on the BN-operated IAD-DFW sectors since those legally became BN fliights.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8422 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5390 times:
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I never understood the reason for Concorde to Miami, with the stop on Washington it really didn't save any time, may be an hour and a half. The MIA-IAD-LHR schedule was a day flight out of miami. BA sold about 20 tickets each flight. It was really an ego trip.

User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
BA sold about 20 tickets each flight. It was really an ego trip.

I am actually surprised they sold that many a day out of MIA

Does anyone know how the concorde sold to Barabados for BA? Did it sell a good percentage of the seats? It came back to service after concordes retirement/upgrades so im guessing it had to have done ok

[Edited 2009-06-30 15:09:04]

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

In the 5/78 ABC, AF11 was to start on 1 June: lv CDG 2130 XTuWe, arr JFK 1915.

11/78 timetable shows AF 53 flying to IAD 2/wk and to JFK 1/wk.

In the 10/82, AF 11 lv CDG 1600 TuWeFrSu, arr JFK 1445; after end of Summer Time, lv CDG 1700 arr 1445.


User currently offlineDeltaCTO From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

If I remember correctly - During the summer of 1988
BA operated Concorde between IAD-DFW as a tag from LHR.
This flight operated 3 times a week - subsonic of course.
Can anyone confirm??


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5206 times:



Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 6):
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
BA sold about 20 tickets each flight. It was really an ego trip.


I am actually surprised they sold that many a day out of MIA

They actually sold more. The average flight was between 35 and 45 seats sold.

If they were only selling 20, do you actually think the service would have operated for eight years?

It ended in 1991 following the Gulf War and falling demand (at the end of its life, it was averaging around 30 tickets sold), and was replaced by a second daily 747 to Heathrow.

It never made sense given that it did not save that much time because MIA-IAD was operated subsonic, but there has always been strong premium traffic between Miami and London, and that continues to be the case.



a.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7616 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5151 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
It never made sense given that it did not save that much time because MIA-IAD was operated subsonic

There is no sense to this comment. Afterall no passenger could join the southerly flight at IAD or disembark on the northerly flight at the same place. All passengers had to start or finish their journey at LHR. So the sector time does not have great relevance.

Even more importantly Concorde certainly did not operate on the IAD-MIA sector subsonically. While it flew subsonically over land, it then flew supersonically over the Atlantic. So the scheduled sector time was only 1 hour 20 minutes. This compares with a typical scheduled IAD-MIA flight time today (by UA) of 2 hours 37 minutes.

So if you could have flown the sector as a stand alone flight the time saving would have been almost a fairly heavty 50 per cent. I suppose you could argue that saving 1 hour 17 minutes is not a substantial time saving, but that is a reflection of the sector length, not the flight speed. And even Concorde found it problematic to reduce any flight time by substantially more than 50 per cent.


User currently offlineTUSAA From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5143 times:



Quoting DeltaCTO (Reply 8):



Quoting DeltaCTO (Reply 8):
If I remember correctly - During the summer of 1988
BA operated Concorde between IAD-DFW as a tag from LHR.
This flight operated 3 times a week - subsonic of course.
Can anyone confirm??

100% correct' and this was in addition to BA's daily LGW-DFW DC-10 flight.


User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Germany, joined Feb 2009, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5075 times:



Quoting TUSAA (Reply 11):
100% correct' and this was in addition to BA's daily LGW-DFW DC-10 flight

I thought British Caledonian was on the Dallas Route at the time not BA, could be wrong though!


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5071 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 7):
In the 5/78 ABC, AF11 was to start on 1 June: lv CDG 2130 XTuWe, arr JFK 1915.

11/78 timetable shows AF 53 flying to IAD 2/wk and to JFK 1/wk.

In the 10/82, AF 11 lv CDG 1600 TuWeFrSu, arr JFK 1445; after end of Summer Time, lv CDG 1700 arr 1445.

Hi

Do you have the JFK-CDG schedules? was there a AF 10 as well as the AF1?

Also do you have the departure times for AF53?

Many thanks

Alex


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3867 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5022 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
Even more importantly Concorde certainly did not operate on the IAD-MIA sector subsonically. While it flew subsonically over land, it then flew supersonically over the Atlantic. So the scheduled sector time was only 1 hour 20 minutes.

Waow. Does that mean Concorde flew that segment, IAD-MIA, at Mach 2 at an altitude of 60000ft? Maybe I exagerate with these numbers but in supersonic regime overwater, it sure flew faster than Mach 1 at an altitude of over 45000ft.

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 12):
100% correct' and this was in addition to BA's daily LGW-DFW DC-10 flight

I thought British Caledonian was on the Dallas Route at the time not BA, could be wrong though!

It was, until BCal was taken over by BA in 1988. All DC-10's BA used to have were ex BCal.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4947 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
the scheduled [IAD-MIA] sector time was only 1 hour 20 minutes.

10/85 timetable shows 1:55 both ways.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7616 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4920 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 15):
10/85 timetable shows 1:55 both ways.

My source was "The Concorde Story" by Christopher Orelbar. But I would rather trust a timetable.


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4797 times:

Hi

Also does anyone know the flight numbers, days of operation and times of the Air France Concorde service to MEX?

Thanks

Alex


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4742 times:

So wthat was the overall flight time MIA-IAD-LHR on the SSC compared to MIA-LHR on the BA B747 flight?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4742 times:

After doing a little research, it seems that Miami-Dulles operated both subsonic and supersonic. It operated subsonic from Dulles, and when it got off the coast of Carolina, it went supersonic to 60,000 feet, but only for about 6-8 minutes before beginning descent to Miami.

Total travel time, however, including the stop, was still 6h30m. It saved only 2 hours from the non-stop 747 flights, but was significantly more expensive. Miami and Dulles each accounted, on average, for roughly half the loads of each flight.

[Edited 2009-07-01 00:31:46]


a.
User currently offlineKlemmi85 From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4730 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 14):
Waow. Does that mean Concorde flew that segment, IAD-MIA, at Mach 2 at an altitude of 60000ft? Maybe I exagerate with these numbers but in supersonic regime overwater, it sure flew faster than Mach 1 at an altitude of over 45000ft.

Wondering the same right now. Having 1.5 hours of total flight time with the CLB and DES part - how much time at CRZ will be left? After all, was this trip efficient in any way? It sure would have fired a whole lot of fuel to get up there, just to stay there for what time? .45 minutes?


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

For those of interested I have just had a look at my log book and these are the actual timings on the following trips. All timings are chock to chock

3/4th May 1984

LHR- IAD 3.54
IAD- MIA 1.30

Total elapsed time including transit at IAD 8.25. Long transit at IAD as all Passengers had to clear immigration etc

MIA- IAD 1.37
IAD-LHR 3.47 Total elapsed time 6.10

30/31st August 1984

LHR-IAD 3.55
IAD- MIA 1.36 Total elapsed time 8.25

MIA -IAD 1.42
IAD- LHR 3.43 Total Elapsed time 6.25

At this time the flight left LHR at 12.00 and left MIA at about 09.00 [I think] local time
By 1988 they were leaving London in the evening at 18.00

Although IAD was served by Concorde from 1976 the flight did not extend on to Miami until 1984

littlevc10


User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3314 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

This might be of some help to you.

http://www.bamuseum.com/

 Wink



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4468 times:



Quoting VC10 (Reply 21):
Long transit at IAD as all Passengers had to clear immigration etc

Transit passengers did not have to clear immigration on same-plane international flights until October 2001.



a.
User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4408 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Transit passengers did not have to clear immigration on same-plane international flights until October 2001.

As I retired in 1998 and I can remember this happening then I will have to disagree with you. The rule was that all passengers had to clear immigration at the first airport within the USA that they landed at. That is how I remember it.

littlevc10


25 MAH4546 : British Airways might have required it; it was not the rule. It was not required until after 9/11. This created headaches for many airlines stopping
26 Osiris30 : I believe 'full' is the word you are looking for. There is a reason why Barbados received Corcorde service after the grounding and continued to oepra
27 ClassicLover : As far as I recall, the passenger load limit was 75 due to the amount of luggage that people took on their trips to Barbados. I also believe it was u
28 Osiris30 : I *believe* that depending on PAX load BA would either send (some of) the luggage on ahead/behind of Concorde, or carry on board. If they sold more t
29 GDB : Trust me, BA did not do 'ego trip' stuff on Concorde. Not on a scheduled route for 7 years. Certainly not after the restructuring in the early 80's,
30 Timz : 5/78 ABC shows AF 12 eff 2 June: lv JFK 2130 XWeTh, arr CDG 0715. No SSC to MEX. 11/78 timetable: AF 53 lv CDG 2000 WeSu, IAD arr 1755 lv 1845, MEX ar
31 Richcandy : Many Thanks guys! Alex
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