Richcandy From France, joined Aug 2001, 696 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4163 times:
Hi
I am trying to find the flight numbers, days of operation and times for the British Airways Concorde service that operated in the 80's and early 90's to Miami. (please don't say this has been discussed many times, I have spent the best part of two days looking at every topic that includes the world concorde and can't find it.)
Two other questions, but not so important.
One of the posts that I saw stated that for a time AF had 10 services a week from CDG-NYC. Does anyone have the schedule for the flight other than AF2/1?
Also
Does anyone have the time, days of operation and flight numbers for the AF service to MEX via IAD or via JFK?
BURules From United States of America, joined May 2000, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3950 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 2): Unlike the BN crewed IAD-DFW service in 1979/80, the route to/from MIA was supersonic, since the route was mostly over-water.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21481 posts, RR: 24 Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3926 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 2): Unlike the BN crewed IAD-DFW service in 1979/80, the route to/from MIA was supersonic, since the route was mostly over-water.
The big difference is that they couldn't carry local IAD-MIA passengers as they could on the BN-operated IAD-DFW sectors since those legally became BN fliights.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7345 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3835 times:
I never understood the reason for Concorde to Miami, with the stop on Washington it really didn't save any time, may be an hour and a half. The MIA-IAD-LHR schedule was a day flight out of miami. BA sold about 20 tickets each flight. It was really an ego trip.
SlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3754 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5): BA sold about 20 tickets each flight. It was really an ego trip.
I am actually surprised they sold that many a day out of MIA
Does anyone know how the concorde sold to Barabados for BA? Did it sell a good percentage of the seats? It came back to service after concordes retirement/upgrades so im guessing it had to have done ok
Timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6468 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3749 times:
In the 5/78 ABC, AF11 was to start on 1 June: lv CDG 2130 XTuWe, arr JFK 1915.
11/78 timetable shows AF 53 flying to IAD 2/wk and to JFK 1/wk.
In the 10/82, AF 11 lv CDG 1600 TuWeFrSu, arr JFK 1445; after end of Summer Time, lv CDG 1700 arr 1445.
DeltaCTO From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 279 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3708 times:
If I remember correctly - During the summer of 1988
BA operated Concorde between IAD-DFW as a tag from LHR.
This flight operated 3 times a week - subsonic of course.
Can anyone confirm??
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3651 times:
Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 6): Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
BA sold about 20 tickets each flight. It was really an ego trip.
I am actually surprised they sold that many a day out of MIA
They actually sold more. The average flight was between 35 and 45 seats sold.
If they were only selling 20, do you actually think the service would have operated for eight years?
It ended in 1991 following the Gulf War and falling demand (at the end of its life, it was averaging around 30 tickets sold), and was replaced by a second daily 747 to Heathrow.
It never made sense given that it did not save that much time because MIA-IAD was operated subsonic, but there has always been strong premium traffic between Miami and London, and that continues to be the case.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6623 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3596 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): It never made sense given that it did not save that much time because MIA-IAD was operated subsonic
There is no sense to this comment. Afterall no passenger could join the southerly flight at IAD or disembark on the northerly flight at the same place. All passengers had to start or finish their journey at LHR. So the sector time does not have great relevance.
Even more importantly Concorde certainly did not operate on the IAD-MIA sector subsonically. While it flew subsonically over land, it then flew supersonically over the Atlantic. So the scheduled sector time was only 1 hour 20 minutes. This compares with a typical scheduled IAD-MIA flight time today (by UA) of 2 hours 37 minutes.
So if you could have flown the sector as a stand alone flight the time saving would have been almost a fairly heavty 50 per cent. I suppose you could argue that saving 1 hour 17 minutes is not a substantial time saving, but that is a reflection of the sector length, not the flight speed. And even Concorde found it problematic to reduce any flight time by substantially more than 50 per cent.
TUSAA From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3588 times:
Quoting DeltaCTO (Reply 8): If I remember correctly - During the summer of 1988
BA operated Concorde between IAD-DFW as a tag from LHR.
This flight operated 3 times a week - subsonic of course.
Can anyone confirm??
100% correct' and this was in addition to BA's daily LGW-DFW DC-10 flight.
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3321 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3467 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 10): Even more importantly Concorde certainly did not operate on the IAD-MIA sector subsonically. While it flew subsonically over land, it then flew supersonically over the Atlantic. So the scheduled sector time was only 1 hour 20 minutes.
Waow. Does that mean Concorde flew that segment, IAD-MIA, at Mach 2 at an altitude of 60000ft? Maybe I exagerate with these numbers but in supersonic regime overwater, it sure flew faster than Mach 1 at an altitude of over 45000ft.
Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 12): 100% correct' and this was in addition to BA's daily LGW-DFW DC-10 flight
I thought British Caledonian was on the Dallas Route at the time not BA, could be wrong though!
It was, until BCal was taken over by BA in 1988. All DC-10's BA used to have were ex BCal.
Ben Soriano
"Aimer jusqu'a l'impossible, c'est possible". Tina Arena.
Timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6468 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3392 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 10): the scheduled [IAD-MIA] sector time was only 1 hour 20 minutes.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3187 times:
After doing a little research, it seems that Miami-Dulles operated both subsonic and supersonic. It operated subsonic from Dulles, and when it got off the coast of Carolina, it went supersonic to 60,000 feet, but only for about 6-8 minutes before beginning descent to Miami.
Total travel time, however, including the stop, was still 6h30m. It saved only 2 hours from the non-stop 747 flights, but was significantly more expensive. Miami and Dulles each accounted, on average, for roughly half the loads of each flight.
Klemmi85 From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3175 times:
Quoting American 767 (Reply 14): Waow. Does that mean Concorde flew that segment, IAD-MIA, at Mach 2 at an altitude of 60000ft? Maybe I exagerate with these numbers but in supersonic regime overwater, it sure flew faster than Mach 1 at an altitude of over 45000ft.
Wondering the same right now. Having 1.5 hours of total flight time with the CLB and DES part - how much time at CRZ will be left? After all, was this trip efficient in any way? It sure would have fired a whole lot of fuel to get up there, just to stay there for what time? .45 minutes?
Readytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2923 times:
VC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1382 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2853 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23): Transit passengers did not have to clear immigration on same-plane international flights until October 2001.
As I retired in 1998 and I can remember this happening then I will have to disagree with you. The rule was that all passengers had to clear immigration at the first airport within the USA that they landed at. That is how I remember it.
littlevc10
25 MAH4546: British Airways might have required it; it was not the rule. It was not required until after 9/11. This created headaches for many airlines stopping
26 Osiris30: I believe 'full' is the word you are looking for. There is a reason why Barbados received Corcorde service after the grounding and continued to oepra
27 ClassicLover: As far as I recall, the passenger load limit was 75 due to the amount of luggage that people took on their trips to Barbados. I also believe it was u
28 Osiris30: I *believe* that depending on PAX load BA would either send (some of) the luggage on ahead/behind of Concorde, or carry on board. If they sold more t
29 GDB: Trust me, BA did not do 'ego trip' stuff on Concorde. Not on a scheduled route for 7 years. Certainly not after the restructuring in the early 80's,
30 Timz: 5/78 ABC shows AF 12 eff 2 June: lv JFK 2130 XWeTh, arr CDG 0715. No SSC to MEX. 11/78 timetable: AF 53 lv CDG 2000 WeSu, IAD arr 1755 lv 1845, MEX ar
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