BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2728 posts, RR: 3 Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 20687 times:
Quote: For the first time in the history of Schiphol, a pilot had his entire plane evacuated after a dozen passengers behaved badly. The aircraft then left empty, and the passengers were sent home.
The incident took place last Friday night on an Arkefly plane. A flight was to be operated for travel agency KomforTours to the Turkish towns of Ankara and Kayseri. "While the plane was already taxiing to the runway, several passengers refused to sit down and fasten their seatbelts. They walked through the airplane and sat down on flight attendant seats. After several warnings the pilot was fed up, the plane turned around and went back to the gate where we were waiting", explained a police spokesman.
Twelve border police officers were awaiting the plane. "It was quite an uproar. Especially because all well-behaving passengers had to leave too. It happens more often that we have to deal with rowdy passengers. [...] But having an entire plane evacuated is unique. We tried to find out who the troublemakers were, but have not been able to file charges."
The pilot then flew the plane to Turkey empty to pick up passengers there. The stranded holidaymakers finally made it to their destination the next day, flying on another airline.
Does anyone know whether this happened before anywhere else? It seems harsh on the other passengers, but if it wasn't possible to establish who the culprits where... Then again, how can they not know, they saw them walking around the plane, right...?
Profcalvin From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 20332 times:
Omg, Another couple dumb as*'s who don't take flying seriously and think they can do whatever they want. It's unfortunate that all of the passengers had to pay the price. I hope they get what they deserve but as mentioned, that seems unlikely of now. I have hear of some passengers having to get sent off board but as for all of the passengers, the pilot must have been really pissed.
B727LVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 579 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 20159 times:
Quoting Profcalvin (Reply 1): the pilot must have been really pissed.
Oh yeah! As a crew member I would have been too. Its sucks for the other passengers, but they also could have, in a polite manner of course, helped the situation by asking those around them to sit down and act right.
I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
USAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1713 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 20001 times:
Quoting B727LVR (Reply 2): Its sucks for the other passengers, but they also could have, in a polite manner of course, helped the situation by asking those around them to sit down and act right.
Yes, because when I get rowdy on a plane, I ignore the crew's directives, but I'll sure straighten up when the random guy in 17C asks me to...
KLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19843 times:
A pilot with intuitive. I like it . Perhaps those pax will pay attention to the crew the next flight.
If Electricity Is Made From Electrons, then Does Morality Comes From Morons?
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1569 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 19572 times:
Let's also remember that the rest of the world is not like the united states, where the passengers act like good little sheep, doing exactly as they're told and those who don't get the crap beaten out of them by other passengers.
I could have elite status if I wanted it, but flying the same airline all the time is boring.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2680 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19379 times:
I think this captain was justified removing the rowdy pax but removing them all? Isn't that a little harsh?
KiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 1803 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19279 times:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6): I think this captain was justified removing the rowdy pax but removing them all? Isn't that a little harsh?
I agree, how ridiculous. Surely a member of the crew could have taken some ownership and accountability for the situation and identified the specific passengers that were to be removed. It seems completely illogical to remove the entire passenger load. Possibly a little emotion getting in the way of the crew doing their jobs??
JRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4492 posts, RR: 54 Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18998 times:
Other sources indicate that none of the passengers was willing to identify the culprits as they were threatened by these same people and the crew was unable to identify all at the time considering multiple people became angry as the aircraft turned back to the gate but were not the original troublemakers. The captain then decided not to take any chances and leave them all.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18992 times:
These guys are lucky they didn't get beat up in the airport parking lot.
If this had happened in certain less civilized portions of the world, they certainly would have been.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 1900 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18819 times:
Well done to the captain,
I think he did the right thing, just like school, if someone behaves badly then the whole class has to stay back after everyone else goes home.
That's what my teacher did and it was VERY effective indeed.
I hope they got the id of the culprits and ban them from flying again !
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
Klemmi85 From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18570 times:
Haha very well done That'll teach em a lesson. Pitty though the rest had to suffer but if you can't make out for sure who causes trouble, remove em all. Would have acted almost the same but would have tried to make other passengers point out the specific troublemakers by threatening them to all be disembarked if none points out those who made the plane turn around. Maybe that would have encouraged em
After all,
must be an experience flying a empty plane after having thrown out all pax. Cabin crew was still on board I guess? Hope they had three hours (or whatever time they had to fly) of fun up there alone
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 18533 times:
Yep, get rid of all the damned customers and this place will run like a well oiled machine.
Good customers, bad customers, it doesn't make a difference; ALL customers get in the way of our work. The only good customer is an ejected customer. Lock the front door.
Retailing, of any kind, depends upon kicking the intrusive customers out of our way.
Elite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2733 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16744 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13): Sorting out the culprit and the innocent might have taken hours. There were passengers waiting in Turkey. Correct decision.
But what about those passengers who were rows and rows away, and who had obviously nothing to do with the racket being caused somewhere else? I don't think this is justified anyway you look like it.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 12350 posts, RR: 69 Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16548 times:
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 5): Let's also remember that the rest of the world is not like the united states, where the passengers act like good little sheep, doing exactly as they're told and those who don't get the crap beaten out of them by other passengers.
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9): These guys are lucky they didn't get beat up in the airport parking lot.
If this had happened in certain less civilized portions of the world, they certainly would have been.
Some years ago passengers started rioting on an Air Berlin flight out of CGN after take off.
The captin informed CGN ATC and returned.
There was a reception commitee of about 100 cops and security guards waiting for the plane, including a platoon of federal riot police all dressed up in combat gear (they are usually sent where there are serious political riots or where football hooligans riot).
The riotpolice stormed the plane and everybody who doidn´t instantly obey the order to sit down and behave, or who started arguing or threatening the cops got the "hickory shampoo" treatment and got arrested. Then the arrested rioters where speeded up out of the plane, again by using the batons and then, out on the ramp, the had to run the gauntlet between two rows of cops, who liberally used their rubber truncheons to make them run faster to the waiting prison vans.
In the US it helps that causing trouble on a plane (or tampering with safety equipment, like life jackets or smoke detectors) is a federal offense with punishment of up to ten years prison and that it is actually enforced. Here often the airlines don´t press charges after a perp has been removed from the aircraft because it would mean that the crew would have to go to the police station to make their statements and this would upset the flight schedule. I know various airport cops, who are quite annoyed about this, first to have to arrest a guy and then to have to let him go.
Aerovelo From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 2 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16379 times:
Safety. Safety. Safety. It's better to be safe than sorry.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8407 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16268 times:
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter): It seems harsh on the other passengers, but if it wasn't possible to establish who the culprits where... Then again, how can they not know, they saw them walking around the plane, right...?
Why didnt the FAs not photograph these unruly pax? That the FAs were not able to identify at least some of the misbehaving people sounds unlikely. This was not A380 at least.
Or were it mainly drunk young men on board which all looked the same?
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13): Sorting out the culprit and the innocent might have taken hours. There were passengers waiting in Turkey. Correct decision.
Overall, yes. But I would be extremely upset if I would have been one of the supposedly mostly innocent pax left behind and would report the wrongdoers to ten police for sure. Who payed their Hotel?
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 744 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15986 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15): Some years ago passengers started rioting on an Air Berlin flight out of CGN after take off.
The captin informed CGN ATC and returned.
There was a reception commitee of about 100 cops and security guards waiting for the plane, including a platoon of federal riot police all dressed up in combat gear (they are usually sent where there are serious political riots or where football hooligans riot).
The riotpolice stormed the plane and everybody who doidn´t instantly obey the order to sit down and behave, or who started arguing or threatening the cops got the "hickory shampoo" treatment and got arrested. Then the arrested rioters where speeded up out of the plane, again by using the batons and then, out on the ramp, the had to run the gauntlet between two rows of cops, who liberally used their rubber truncheons to make them run faster to the waiting prison vans.
That's what I love about the Polizei, they absolutely do not mess around nor worry about "civil rights" crap that everyone in America is wrapped up with just because Rodney King got his 15 minutes of fame. He's lucky he didn't spout off like that to the Polizei or he very well wouldn't have gotten his 15 minutes in the spotlight. One more reason why I love going to Germany. Such an orderly place.
I think the Captain was well within his authority to dump them all if nobody came forward to identify the perps. If they won't point the finger then they must be assumed to be party to the actions. My only question is why the f/a's weren't able to at least identify some of the perps.
Wexfordflyer From Ireland, joined Jun 2009, 548 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15791 times:
I dont see how it is justified to remove all pax. i understand it may have been a very difficult situation and difficult to pick out the culprits. And I think to say that it was the right decision so as not to delay the pax in turkey is also a non-starter. You still have a hundred or so completely innocent pax delayed by a full day. Either way you are putting people out. Would it not have been better to delay the o/b and i/b by an hour or so and sort the decision out but still letting the innocent pax get on their holidays. I am surprised so many people agree with the captains decision.
Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 12): ALL customers get in the way of our work. The only good customer is an ejected customer
This sort of attitude annoys me. Without them you would have no job. Simple as. Remove them, but get them to hand you your P45 first.
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8110 posts, RR: 18 Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15722 times:
Quoting Wexfordflyer (Reply 23): Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 12):
ALL customers get in the way of our work. The only good customer is an ejected customer
This sort of attitude annoys me. Without them you would have no job. Simple as. Remove them, but get them to hand you your P45 first.
I think that you might have missed the sarcasm in ThirtyEchos post (this might be the first time I have seen an Irishman not get a joke made by an American though often I have seen the reverse )
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 Klemmi85: This is not true for the normal "Polizei" to be found on out streets. These are some kind of special trained forces with enhanced rights of enforcing
26 A350: The pax have paid for the flight and getting the lift is not a question of gratitude but their right. While this right is obviously lost for someone w
27 TK787: I first read this at a Turkish forum, and the pax weren't happy about this. Some of the older ones didn't even know what was going on. Apparently the
28 A350: I didn't bear that in mind but alcohol is probably a very important point which leads to an idea for this kind of situations: Turn back to the gate a
29 PanHAM: MD11s story about the Air Berlin flight at CGN is grossly exaggerated. Although I like the term "hickory shampoo" this is not what you get in our nec
30 Trent1000: intuitive what? Did the pilot have a 'gut feeling' that the pax were being naughty? I think you mean 'a pilot with initiative'.
31 Wexfordflyer: I guess my bad!!! Thats the thing I have always thought about sarcasm in text. Sarcasm is alot about intonation, which doesnt come across in text.
32 BubbaJin: If I was the pilot, I would have stated the following, "I have tried to help these passengers. But I have failed. I have failed because YOU have not h
33 Gigneil: I know, right? That stupid Constitution thing... prevents me from beating my slaves, too. I hear Iran is nice this time of year if you prefer places
34 Theredbaron: I think that the Pilot does not have to play police. Also that getting all the baddies out would be difficult since most baddies get "soft" when they
35 DreamsUnited: My grandfather was captain of a United 727 flight in the 80's, he had a very unruly passenger after departing the gate, he was frustrating the other p
36 Burnsie28: You would be surprised if you have other passengers yelling at you, its kinda like if your enemy was yelling at you (in this case the crew) and you w
37 IrishMD11: Wow, you have a wee problem, man! Well, if Johannes zum Gutenberg invented the printing machine, I guess you'll have to asume the rest... What an int
38 Johns624: Yeah, especially if the "random passenger in 17C" played college football and doesn't have to worry about making his employer look bad, like an F/A w
39 PITA333: And thats why I'm proud to be an American
40 1stfl94: Personally I think this shows very poor action taken by the cabin crew. If they couldn't identify the misbehaving pax then what else was the captain m
41 Thestooges: I would think that the police who met this flight, like someone else has mentioned, would have been riot cops. There is a lot more problems in Europe
42 Cytz_pilot: I will go out on a limb and say that these poorly-behaving passengers were probably drunk. When a person's judgement and sense of mental balance is g
43 YYZA330: Good for him. Passengers all need to remember that they are 'passengers'! Therfore, should act like passengers. Yes it's the few bad apples that ruin
44 FrmrCAPCADET: Any number of behaiving passengers would likely be intimidated and afraid to make any complaints. As a US citizen I would really not like to become in
45 AirNZ: Ummm!.......with what exactly? Are you seriously sufggesting that an FA walk around with a camera and photograph the 'offenders'??? What does being a
46 Johns624: That's his PC way of saying "I'm a wimp".
47 Chuchoteur: Talking about police and disruptive pax, I was once on a CDG-HH flight operated by Air France that was supposed to have a deportation on board. We got
48 Pygmalion: it may be a subtle difference but the pax on this airplane were a charter group and the pilot booted the whole charter not a collection of separately
49 Johns624: Good point. Maybe the other passengers weren't afraid of the miscreants, they just didn't want to get their friends in trouble.
50 Marara: Some of the comments on here are quite crazy. I have a cabin with a group of people acting like idiots as we are taxiing out to the runway. They are r
51 Nomadd22: Maybe they should start showing "Midnight Express" as the in flight movie.
52 MD11Engineer: You clearly haven´t got much experience with German riot police (I have from my old rowdy student days in former West Berlin). Remember the EBLT of
53 PanHAM: never ever take second hand stories seriously. I don't waqnt to stray off topic here but I remember bthat thius happened, that police removed the guy
54 FrmrCAPCADET: Have a son who was safety person in his area for the Peace Corps. The strong (and that is an understatement) advice of the US State Department is tha
55 Embajador3: Very well done!! we are not babysitters.
56 Danfearn77: I agree. Happened to me a lot and everytime the pupil in question got a grilling from the class! I have to say i agree with the captains decision. He
57 MD11Engineer: Usually this happens, but they can play hardball as well, as I said I have seen them in action, and at this time I had friends of both sides (cops an
58 TheCommodore: We live in a world that is "unfair at the best of times" It's a real shame that other well behaved passengers had to get involved as well but that's l
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. Perhaps those pax will pay attention to the crew the next flight.
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