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Will AA And DL Invest In Their MD80s?  
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6437 posts, RR: 17
Posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7082 times:

I was reading somwhere that there are some modifications that can applied to the MD80s to make them more fuel efficient. One is on the wings and the other is one the engines. Will these airlines be making these upgrades? In AA's case, I know they are parking some aircraft, but with over 250 left inm the fleet, that's a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnng retirement schedule. Would it be cheaper to to make the modifications instead of buying new metal? And what about Alilitalia and Iberia?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6919 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
I was reading somwhere that there are some modifications that can applied to the MD80s to make them more fuel efficient. One is on the wings and the other is one the engines. Will these airlines be making these upgrades? In AA's case, I know they are parking some aircraft, but with over 250 left inm the fleet, that's a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnng retirement schedule. Would it be cheaper to to make the modifications instead of buying new metal? And what about Alilitalia and Iberia?

AA considered a re-engining mod for their MD-80s, but the project was scrapped in favor of replacing some of the older aircraft with 738s.

DL has installed Wi-Fi on their MD-88s; I haven't heard anything about other mods (besides the leather seat/PSU mods).



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3795 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6911 times:
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I don't know about Delta but I know American has ordered no less than 75 new B737-800 Series to be delivered between 2009 and 2011, which will replace part of the large fleet of 270 MD-80's or so. It all depends on the economy. If by 2011 the economy bounces back then American may keep flying the remaining MD-80's they will still have by then (less than 200 frames. but still quite a large fleet) longer than planned, by applying modifications to make them more fuel efficient. I think that after all the 737-800's on order are delivered, American will wait to see what the 737RS or whatever will replace the 737 will be like to consider it as MD-80 replacement.

Iberia has no more MD-80 Series aircraft, all DC-9 and MD-80 (I think MD-87 in the case of Iberia) are gone, so are the 757s. They have now an all Airbus fleet.

Alitalia, which you mention, and SAS are the only two airlines in Europe still flying the MD-80's. I don't know what their plans are. SAS seems to be happy with the MD-80 aircraft.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineTupolevTu154 From Germany, joined Aug 2004, 2185 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6863 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 2):
Alitalia, which you mention, and SAS are the only two airlines in Europe still flying the MD-80's. I don't know what their plans are. SAS seems to be happy with the MD-80 aircraft.

Add Spanair, Viking, Dubrovnik, Blue Line, Onur, Meridiana, and a whole host of smaller airlines to that list  Wink



Atheists - Winning since 33 A.D.
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
DL has installed Wi-Fi on their MD-88s; I haven't heard anything about other mods (besides the leather seat/PSU mods).

I heard Delta is going to reconfigure the 88s to seat 150 pax.

[Edited 2009-07-01 13:47:19]

User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6593 times:



Quoting Okie73 (Reply 4):
I heard Delta is going to reconfigure the 88s to seat 150 pax.

Source??

I doubt it. The only way to do that is either:

A) Remove F and make it all Y. This is not going to happen - they just switched all the shuttle aircraft there all Y into standard F/Y config.

B) Remove the aft galley. I highly doubt they'd do this. While a lot less is used back there now (ie: no ovens), there is still plenty of stuff in the galley, that would have to be relocated and can't all fit in the forward galley.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6591 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
besides the leather seat/PSU mods

That PSU mod is great- I noticed it immediately upon taking my seat onboard my first Delta MD-88 flight, just last year. It gives the plane a thoroughly improved "look" in the cabin.
Granted, I'm a mechanic, so I notice things the average traveler doesn't give a hoot about, but still..... very nice.


User currently offlineAidanoc5793 From Ireland, joined Apr 2009, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6543 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 2):
SAS seems to be happy with the MD-80 aircraft.

Yah very happy....I read an article and it seems SAS simply don't have the money to replace the MD-80's and their CEO said that. It was only last year.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6456 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 5):
I doubt it. The only way to do that is either:

A) Remove F and make it all Y. This is not going to happen - they just switched all the shuttle aircraft there all Y into standard F/Y config.

B) Remove the aft galley. I highly doubt they'd do this. While a lot less is used back there now (ie: no ovens), there is still plenty of stuff in the galley, that would have to be relocated and can't all fit in the forward galley.

I am not familiar with the seat pitch of the Delta MD-88s, or the size of the premium cabin, but AM used to have 142 seats in a 2-class configuration in its MD-88s (and seat pitch in coach was not miserable at all). Seems to me it should not be too hard to squeeze 150 seats while retaining the galley and the two-class config.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineHawaiian763 From Canada, joined May 2009, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6349 times:

I don't see any point in AA putting any money in their MD-80's since they are replacing most of them with 738's so to upgrade them, than replace them is a waste of money. DL on the other hand is worth it since it is a major aircraft in their fleet and also with them being fitted with Wi-Fi so it would be well worth for DL to invest in the MD-80's

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4469 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6322 times:



Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 9):
I don't see any point in AA putting any money in their MD-80's since they are replacing most of them with 738's so to upgrade them, than replace them is a waste of money

I don't know if this would be considered an "upgrade" but AA is supposed to be putting WiFi in the MD-80s.


User currently offlineAAAL From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6308 times:



Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 9):
I don't see any point in AA putting any money in their MD-80's since they are replacing most of them with 738's so to upgrade them, than replace them is a waste of money. DL on the other hand is worth it since it is a major aircraft in their fleet and also with them being fitted with Wi-Fi so it would be well worth for DL to invest in the MD-80's

You mean to tell me that the MD-80 are not major aircraft in their fleet for AA?The 738's are not replacing all of the MD-80's. AA still plans for 150 MD-80's to be in the fleet for something time now. They are installing Wi-Fi on them too.


User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6230 times:

New engines on the MD-80 would take a decade to return a pay off while the M80 airframes get closer and closer to their life expectancy.

G4 will be happy, though, since they will have a large number of well-maintained ex-AA and DL M80s to choose from, for dirt-cheap prices. That should keep them going well for another decade!


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6116 times:



Quoting Okie73 (Reply 4):
I heard Delta is going to reconfigure the 88s to seat 150 pax.

Where did you hear this? I know that DL will be reconfiguring their MD-90s to 160 pax with the Weber slimline seats. The new configuration will make its debut on the Hello Airlines MD-90s that DL has acquired.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6072 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Where did you hear this? I know that DL will be reconfiguring their MD-90s to 160 pax with the Weber slimline seats. The new configuration will make its debut on the Hello Airlines MD-90s that DL has acquired.

And where did you hear this?  Silly Just curious to see if you have a source. Makes sense though.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6038 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 14):
And where did you hear this? Just curious to see if you have a source. Makes sense though.

It is planned.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5981 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
It is planned.

Thanks. Are there also plans to increase the MD-88 seating capacity to 150?



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

All you need to do on the MD88 is remove 1 row of FC reducing it to only 10 seats in FC. With the additional room from 1 FC row and the rest of the cabin you find a way to squeeze 2 YC rows giving you an additional 6 seats...bringing the total up to 148.

User currently offlineAv8rDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

What about winglets? Seems that Delta and American have been adding them to the entire Boeing fleet to save fuel costs. The regional jet fleet sports them as standard equipment.

The MD's suck gas in comparison and the companies could really benefit from a lower fuel cost. Have there been any solutions developed for this aircraft?



Maintain thine airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and smite thee.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5428 times:



Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 18):

I was thinking about that too, although winglets supposedly aren't as big a benefit on short-haul. Then again the RJ fleet does have them. It might be a good idea to install them at least on the newer aircraft in their fleet.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5173 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 2):
I think that after all the 737-800's on order are delivered,

AA would be smart to look at a 100 seat aircraft to replace some if the MD's that are used on less the full flights.

Quoting AAAL (Reply 11):
You mean to tell me that the MD-80 are not major aircraft in their fleet for AA?The 738's are not replacing all of the MD-80's. AA still plans for 150 MD-80's to be in the fleet for something time now. They are installing Wi-Fi on them too.

He must be drinking something.

I don't think it was his intention to insinuate that the MD aircraft at AA is not major, or if it was then give your head a shake, Theirs is much older then DL's MD aircraft and are probably looking at a more economical solution to the MD aircraft then just re-engining them. It all depends on their plans for the types.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2554 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

The WiFi mod is a pretty minor mod to these planes. I think it is done in a couple of days.

User currently offlineJoseKMLB From United States of America, joined May 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4076 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):
I am not familiar with the seat pitch of the Delta MD-88s, or the size of the premium cabin, but AM used to have 142 seats in a 2-class configuration in its MD-88s (and seat pitch in coach was not miserable at all). Seems to me it should not be too hard to squeeze 150 seats while retaining the galley and the two-class config.

Thats what DL has 142 seats on their MD88s 14F and 128Y. I dont see them adding more seats on the MD88s because there is no space to put them.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4061 times:



Quoting JoseKMLB (Reply 22):
Thats what DL has 142 seats on their MD88s 14F and 128Y. I dont see them adding more seats on the MD88s because there is no space to put them.

Of course, DL could remove a galley and add slimline seats. Also remember that the 2-seat side has more pitch than the 3-seat side. Add the Weber slimline seats and you can reduce the pitch without sacrificing comfort. This is exactly what DL will be doing with the MD-90s to increase their capacity to 160.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3976 times:



Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 18):
What about winglets? Seems that Delta and American have been adding them to the entire Boeing fleet to save fuel costs. The regional jet fleet sports them as standard equipment.

The MD's suck gas in comparison and the companies could really benefit from a lower fuel cost. Have there been any solutions developed for this aircraft?

I don't believe there are any winglet programmes for the MD-80 under development at the moment...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
25 Moman : Yes, and it would have paid off had AA started the program in 2005/2006 as they were initially planning. Lack of manufacturer support killed the idea
26 Okie73 : family member who is an 88/90 pilot. yes.
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