Irishayes From Israel, joined Jan 2008, 2539 posts, RR: 16 Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4387 times:
I saw from a thread dated a few months back that VX decided not to serve ORD because they would have to bus PAX to T5 at peak travel times. In this case, I was wondering...why doesn't VX expand into MDW? I cannot see there being a huge difference in choosing between MDW and ORD when it comes to BIZ pax.
...or is it that flying to ORD (as somewhat of a more mid-continent point) just not in-line with VX's network strategy...?
Atomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 567 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4335 times:
I'm sure they also want to take advantage of other opportunities, such as connecting with international airlines and business travelers, that are available at a major hub like ORD. ORD is where they want to be eventually, so why invest money in MDW only to have to spend more money moving across town when the opportunity arises?
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 7061 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4328 times:
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2): are you saying there are not a lot of high-end flyers on the south side??!!!
While there is a fairly significant and growing amount of wealth in the South and Southwest the majority of the extremely affluent communities and corporations are still located North/Northwest/West of the city.
I don't think that is what is keeping VX out of MDW though, I think its mostly ego.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
Ripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4112 times:
Well they would want to feed the LHR flight from SFO/LAX it's the same reason majors do it as well to connect the lower paying passengers and get more money from non stop flights. AA flys LAX/LHR but they route some of their pass thru DFW/JFK/ORD same reason behind this and they would keep all their resources at 1 airport instead of 2 it would be cheaper. Also I did not know about virgin droping their ORD flight is that just for winter or perment.?
Steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2064 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4094 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 9): You might say that, but DuPage County (WSW of Chicago) has the highest per-capita income in the Chicagoland area, and one of the highest in the countries.
I would consider DuPage County to be strictly west of Chicago, not really west-southwest. If you drew a line directly west from the Loop, approximately half of DuPage would be north of that line and half south. Regardless, it doesn't change the point as far as VX would be concerned as the majority of DuPage County is closer to ORD than MDW. Heck, part of ORD (and a tiny bit of the City of Chicago) is actually in DuPage County!
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34580 posts, RR: 70
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4068 times:
Quoting Ripcordd (Reply 11): Well they would want to feed the LHR flight from SFO/LAX it's the same reason majors do it as well to connect the lower paying passengers and get more money from non stop flights. AA flys LAX/LHR but they route some of their pass thru DFW/JFK/ORD same reason behind this and they would keep all their resources at 1 airport instead of 2 it would be cheaper.
Apples and oranges. AA is one airline; Virgin America and Virgin Atlantic are two.
The reason that VX wants to operate eight daily flights from O'Hare to LAX and SFO has nothing to do with Virgin Atlantic. Such a statement is ridiculous.
ElBandGeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4062 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6): Virgin America has as part of their mission decided to serve the primary/major airport of a city, rather than starting on the fringes like so many other LCCs have done in the past.
That's where I think it's just their ego getting in the way. MDW (as well as similar airports like LGA, DCA, etc) is really not a "secondary" airport in the sense. It's just as vital a part of the city's airport system as ORD (compared to, say SNA/LGB/ONT/BUR vs LAX), and in many respects is much better for certain routes like PD and DL's repective YTZ and LGA flights. The only reason I see VX absolutely requiring ORD is feed for VS, and even then, how much feed are they going to get anyway. I personally think they are scared of being unable to compete with WN and think that flying into MDW will ruin their reputation because as it is a major WN station, people will see it as nothing more than "an LCC hub" (which it really isn't)
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 19320 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4039 times:
Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 14): The only reason I see VX absolutely requiring ORD is feed for VS,
Feed to any of the Virgin carriers anywhere on earth is going to do almost nil for VX. The route has to make sense on its own on local traffic, because connections on VS and even VX metal aren't going to help. VA might help drive some volume but with all the new capacity between the US and Australia it's all going to be garbage fares as everyone tries to fill up their planes with connections to SEA/SFO/CHI/NYC/WAS.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34580 posts, RR: 70
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4012 times:
Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 14): people will see it as nothing more than "an LCC hub" (which it really isn't)
It's not? Tell me, how many daily flights to American, Continental, United and US Airways have to Midway?
Does it ever dawn on people that instead of making up such a stupid remarks like "Virgin America only wants to fly to O'Hare to feed their London flights" (we'll ignore the fact that Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America do not partner with each other and that Virgin Atlantic suspends all flights to Chicago in October) that O'Hare actually is a stronger, more desirable high-yielding airport?
I prefered Midway when I lived in Chicago, but I also lived downtown, so it made sense. The fact is that the demographics Virgin America is going after live on the north side.
I sincerely doubt anyone make important business decisions based on things like "not wanting to be seen as a copycat". In fact, if there's a successful business model out there, people trip all over themselves to be seen as exemplars of it.
Though, I suppose you can call it an attempt at differentiating themselves from a competitor, which would probably be a relatively fair thing to say. But then it does speak to the point that they are offering something a bit different than B6, with a different strategy behind it.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 22161 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3810 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20): Their most recent quarter performance was quite good, and at the rate they are going, they'll be profitable in 6-12 months.
It was not quite good. It was spun by a few as quite good.
At this rate, they will be out of money in 6-12 months.
Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 19): I sincerely doubt anyone make important business decisions based on things like "not wanting to be seen as a copycat".
You can doubt that all you want, but most new products are launched in an effort to differentiate the new product from other products, and being seen as a "copycat" product is something that is worried about by those making those decisions.
VX looked at what people liked about B6 and what they wished were different, tried to copy what worked and "fix" what didn't, and then marketed themselves as a new thing, a different way to fly, etc.
Their brand is all about not being seen as a B6 copycat...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3628 times:
If you ask people in Chicago, they will tell you that MDW is the airport for low-cost carriers, like WN, FL, and F9, and ORD is the airport for the old network carriers, like UA, AA, and DL, and for flights to Europe and Asia on BA, JL, and LH.
Unless you live in southern DuPage County, along I-55, ORD is the closer airport in terms of driving time.
Most of the businesses located outside of the Loop are located off of I-88, I-294, and I-90. They are closer to ORD than MDW, althought when you get up towards Deerfield (Walgreen's) and Waukegan (Abbott Labs), MKE becomes an alternative to ORD.
A friend of mine worked up north and often took Midwest, if it had a non-stop flight, particularly in the late afternoon or early evening, when southbound traffic on I-294 is miserable.
Whether VX gets into ORD depends on what happens to DL's 5 gates on Concourse L. Despite the fact that ORD is UA's largest hub and AA's #2 hub, Mayor Daley loves to bash them for charging too much and wants more LCCs in ORD. So, the City would love to see VX take the gate space.
On the other hand, the Chicago Tribune thinks that AA may very well get the gate space, since it already has the other 5 gates on L.