AABB777 From United States, joined Oct 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3856 times:
From FAA.gov:
Due to UAL ONLY, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Chicago OHare International Airport, Chicago, IL (ORD). To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".
PlateMan From United States, joined May 2007, 652 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3502 times:
Quoting Ualops (Reply 2): ua groundstop cancelled at 0853est..ord computers now backup and running..all ua flights are released to ord..
But still heavily delayed, and possibly cancelled
From the Chicago Tribune: FAA said UA had done a ground stop of its planes on its own, and while that officially that had ended at 7:55 a.m., there was no indication when flights would be leaving the airport again. The problem began about 5:15 a.m., she said.
Amwest2United From United States, joined Jun 2006, 235 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3313 times:
Quoting Ualops (Reply 2): ua groundstop cancelled at 0853est..ord computers now backup and running..all ua flights are released to ord..
Computers are NOT all up and running. They are using phone brigeo various out stations to assist in check-in and boarding. Concourse C is running , B is not and most of the lobby is still down as well as Terminal 2
Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
DescendVia From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3182 times:
Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 6): Doesn't this happen quite regularly to UA? They should really update their system...
Not at all, this is the first time this has happened in a long while. UA has one of the better systems out there.
Just a bit more info on this issue:
Apollo is the system in question that crashed affecting not only ORD but system wide. Apollo is a system that pretty much tracks all the passengers, flight loads, and etc. Unimatic and Skynet where unaffected allowing operations to still continue at a snails pace. If it had been Unimatic, then United would to have had to literally shutdown for the day to get it fixed. Its just amplified in ORD since it happened just before the morning rush. There were thousands upon thousands waiting in lines for hand written tickets. A lot of the early flights still went on time as well as a lot of the UAX flights. Open seating was the name of the game for people who had not printed out their boarding passes before the crash for said flights.
While I don't want to bash "my" company, they did drop the ball a bit on the handling of this problem. See what was requiring the most time was people checking bags. People who were carrying bags on did not need to wait in line, they could have written their own tickets. No announcement was made to this fact and many waited in the lines when they could have just asked some of the agents circling around the crowds for a paper ticket to write out their own info on it to be able to go through security but again no one knew.
Calramper From United States, joined Jun 2008, 90 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2828 times:
Quoting DescendVia (Reply 7): People who were carrying bags on did not need to wait in line, they could have written their own tickets. No announcement was made to this fact and many waited in the lines when they could have just asked some of the agents circling around the crowds for a paper ticket to write out their own info on it to be able to go through security but again no one knew.
No offense, but in reality it is not this simple. A passenger cannot just be handed a paper ticket and told to fill out their flight information on it. Paper tickets are secured items with a record being kept of who issues the ticket as well as the information on the ticket. Secondly, when not using the computer to check the passenger in, it is required that another station be called who will verify the passengers destination as well as run a CAPPS check on the passenger to verify that they are not on the no-fly list. This can not be done if passengers are simply being handed paper tickets and told to fill them out with their flight information. As a side note, having worked as a ticket agent, you would be amazed how many people showed up at the ticket counter and had no clue of their flight information or airline. For example at ICT, a family showed up to check in. When asked what flight they were on the gentleman replied "don't you know that information, you have the computer" When I explained that the computer system did not do know who each person was simply by walking up to the counter, I was told that he and his family were on the flight to Hong Kong. I explained that in ICT we had no flights to HKG and that he would be connecting in another city. I was finally able to get passports from him and could not find him in our reservations system, I informed him that I was not finding him in the system and asked what airline he was flying. He said United. I pointed out that he was at the AA counter, to which he replied "I know that but the line is to long at UA, can you just check me in for them so that I don't have to wait?" Long story, but I feel that it makes the point of regardless of if was allowed by the TSA, I would be very hesitant just to hand the passenger a blank ticket and tell them to fill it out with their flight information.
Jsnww81 From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1711 posts, RR: 23 Reply 9, posted (4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2644 times:
I was a United passenger at ORD today. What a mess!
I checked in online last night but forgot to print up my boarding pass, and figured I'd stop at the kiosk at T1 and print one up. I was carrying on a bag, so didn't need to wait in line. When I came up the escalator into T1 departures, it was complete pandemonium - lines outside, lines inside, people everywhere and news helicopters hovering overhead. All of the easyCheck-in machines said "Closed", so people were forced to wait to check bags. However, more than half of the check-in desks were unmanned - UA hadn't sent in additional check-in agents to cover the spread - so the lines were unbelievably long.
The really amazing part was that there was almost no UA staff on hand to direct traffic and point customers in the direction of the correct line. Passengers were wandering around asking one another where the lines started.
Because I hadn't planned on spending more than 1-2 minutes checking in, I had cut things rather fine and only had 30 minutes until my flight was scheduled to board (I know, my fault, not United's.) I forced my way up to the front of the International Economy check-in area and told an agent I was flying to Manchester (which was true, but I was headed to the one in New Hampshire and not the UK ) and just needed a boarding pass. She gave me a blank boarding card, initialed it and said "fill this out with your details and go through security."
Once at the gate - F4B in Terminal 2, which is pretty much a disaster area even when the computers *are* working - gate agents first boarded everyone who had a printed boarding pass, followed by those of us with handwritten boarding passes who could remember our seating assignments. They then boarded the rest of the pax and offered them open seating in coach.
As I said before, the most startling thing I noticed today was how few staff were on hand to deal with the issue. Airlines (and not just United) have automated things to a point where there's simply not enough people left to deal with crises when they arise. Fortunately, the staff who were there were surprisingly upbeat, and passengers were being uncharacteristically cooperative.
Justlump From United States, joined Jan 2007, 95 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1679 times:
Quoting Calramper (Reply 8): No offense, but in reality it is not this simple. A passenger cannot just be handed a paper ticket and told to fill out their flight information on it. Paper tickets are secured items with a record being kept of who issues the ticket as well as the information on the ticket. Secondly, when not using the computer to check the passenger in, it is required that another station be called who will verify the passengers destination as well as run a CAPPS check on the passenger to verify that they are not on the no-fly list. This can not be done if passengers are simply being handed paper tickets and told to fill them out with their flight information. As a side note, having worked as a ticket agent, you would be amazed how many people showed up at the ticket counter and had no clue of their flight information or airline. For example at ICT, a family showed up to check in. When asked what flight they were on the gentleman replied "don't you know that information, you have the computer" When I explained that the computer system did not do know who each person was simply by walking up to the counter, I was told that he and his family were on the flight to Hong Kong. I explained that in ICT we had no flights to HKG and that he would be connecting in another city. I was finally able to get passports from him and could not find him in our reservations system, I informed him that I was not finding him in the system and asked what airline he was flying. He said United. I pointed out that he was at the AA counter, to which he replied "I know that but the line is to long at UA, can you just check me in for them so that I don't have to wait?" Long story, but I feel that it makes the point of regardless of if was allowed by the TSA, I would be very hesitant just to hand the passenger a blank ticket and tell them to fill it out with their flight information.
Great post! I don't think the TSA would react very kindly to airlines "passing out" paper tickets for security clearance.
You were right-on about your confused passenger comments. I've dealt with similar passengers on dozens of occasions. It never fails to amaze me as to how little attention some people pay to their travel plans.
DL Widget Head From United States, joined Apr 2000, 1879 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1569 times:
Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9): The really amazing part was that there was almost no UA staff on hand to direct traffic and point customers in the direction of the correct line.
All available agents were probably working the counters trying to get people on their way asap.
Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9): I had cut things rather fine and only had 30 minutes until my flight was scheduled to board (I know, my fault, not United's.) I forced my way up to the front of the International Economy check-in area and told an agent I was flying to Manchester (which was true, but I was headed to the one in New Hampshire and not the UK ) and just needed a boarding pass. She gave me a blank boarding card, initialed it and said "fill this out with your details and go through security."
Sorry, no offense, you're probably a nice person but I hate what you did here. It's just plain rude, selfish, and unfair to the numerous people waiting in line to be taken care of.
Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9): the most startling thing I noticed today was how few staff were on hand to deal with the issue. Airlines (and not just United) have automated things to a point where there's simply not enough people left to deal with crises when they arise.
Airlines do not experience these type of computer crises often enough to warrant having more than enough staff on hand at any given time just in case the computer crashes. Most of the time, things work just fine with the machines and automation hence your decision to cut things rather close. I'll bet UA tried to get agents in early or on OT to take care of the passengers but it's a holiday weekend, even airline employees have lives and families and plans and can't always respond to a work call at the last minute.
DAL763ER From Romania, joined Oct 2008, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1013 times:
Quoting DescendVia (Reply 7): Unimatic and Skynet where unaffected allowing operations to still continue at a snails pace.
Sorry, can't help it...I've seen this too much in the past few days!! It's WERE and not WHERE - the former is the past form of the verb TO BE, whereas the second is an adverb indicating a place. Write correctly, people!!
OTOH, yeah, that sucks for UA and all the stranded passengers, but things like this happen...sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride (once the system is up)
Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
Jsnww81 From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1711 posts, RR: 23 Reply 13, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 883 times:
Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 11): All available agents were probably working the counters trying to get people on their way asap.
There were five agents working the domestic check-in counter and six working the international counter. Same as on a normal day, when all the kiosks are functioning. That was the unbelievable part.
Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 11): Airlines do not experience these type of computer crises often enough to warrant having more than enough staff on hand at any given time just in case the computer crashes. Most of the time, things work just fine with the machines and automation hence your decision to cut things rather close. I'll bet UA tried to get agents in early or on OT to take care of the passengers but it's a holiday weekend, even airline employees have lives and families and plans and can't always respond to a work call at the last minute.
If you re-read my first post, I said the most startling thing was that there were no employees on hand just to direct traffic and explain where people needed to go. It was basically left to the customers to figure out what they had to do and where to line up. You don't need to be a trained ticket agent to do that.
DescendVia From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 843 times:
Quoting Justlump (Reply 10): Great post! I don't think the TSA would react very kindly to airlines "passing out" paper tickets for security clearance.
TSA was allowing this and that is how some people, who actually asked, got through security and made their flights that were actually going out on time.
Justlump From United States, joined Jan 2007, 95 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 679 times:
Quoting DescendVia (Reply 14): TSA was allowing this and that is how some people, who actually asked, got through security and made their flights that were actually going out on time
The post I was quoting refered to paper tickets. I think you are refering to paper boarding passes. There is a difference.
Handwritten boarding passes have been allowed by the TSA for years. They are often necessary in computer failures/power losses, etc.
However, paper tickets are quite different. Paper tickets are rarely used today and often require a member of management to unlock and distribute. They have to be validated by the Agent and are a mess with all the various carbon copies. They are not used once travel has been initiated.
Again, someone probably just used the wrong jargon in the earlier posts, but paper tickets and boarding passes are completely different items.
AznCSA4QF744ER From United States, joined Oct 2003, 547 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 566 times:
Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 6): Doesn't this happen quite regularly to UA? They should really update their system...
This problem doesn't happen that often. Last time it happen was at LAX in 2007
Quoting DescendVia (Reply 7): Not at all, this is the first time this has happened in a long while. UA has one of the better systems out there.
Yep!
Quoting DescendVia (Reply 7): A lot of the early flights still went on time as well as a lot of the UAX flights.
Funny, isn't it? I remember when a similar problem took place at LAX back in 07 UAX was the only carriers dispatching their flights while all mainline UAL were on a standstill...
ADXMatt From United States, joined Jul 2006, 790 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 379 times:
Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 13): There were five agents working the domestic check-in counter and six working the international counter. Same as on a normal day, when all the kiosks are functioning. That was the unbelievable part.
Since this was not a "planned" outage how was UA supposed to know the computers would be down to "properly" staff? Once the Chaos started and not know how long it would last I'm sure they tried to call people in for OT but that takes time to get the call out, someone to answer the call, accept, drive in, get the shuttle etc. Also hind sight is always easy.
I would think that in a situation like this that TSA should allow people through without a boarding pass. Showing an itinerary on paper, pda, etc along with their ID should be enough. It's a short term situation that is not planned nor announced. A handwritten BP is about worthless anyhow.
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) and just needed a boarding pass. She gave me a blank boarding card, initialed it and said "fill this out with your details and go through security." 
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