757GB From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 338 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10866 times:
Yes, glad to see it.
There was an article today on Aviation Week speculating - I'm not sure how solidly - that Boeing would be giving a timeline for first flight for #1 before July 22:
Unless more bad news have come out that I don't know about, the fix to make them flyable could actually be done on the flight line, so I doubt it would go to that point.
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7595 posts, RR: 51 Reply 7, posted (5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10004 times:
Quoting 757GB (Reply 5): the fix to make them flyable could actually be done on the flight line,
As I undderstand it, ZA001 can fly now, but Boeing wanted to be on the caution side of things. Yes, I also heard the planes can be fixed on the ramp and no need to go into a hanger. That tells me the fix is relitively minor.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18447 posts, RR: 59 Reply 8, posted (5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9789 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9): As I undderstand it, ZA001 can fly now, but Boeing wanted to be on the caution side of things.
Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with the fix and how it would be implemented. It has been brought back into the factory, and the wings may be removed in order to better study the retrofitting of the fix. #1 is the muliest of the test mules, after all. She gets abused far more than the others when it comes to structural work.
But #2 may not ever go back into the factory if the fix is as they believe it will be: one that can be applied on the flight line without removal of the wings.
That's yet to be seen.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 16058 posts, RR: 64 Reply 9, posted (5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9791 times:
I believe Clickhappy has previously reported that ZA001 has been returned to the hangar, though this might pertain to the completion of those final gauntlet tests originally planned for after first flight.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18447 posts, RR: 59 Reply 10, posted (5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9629 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 11): I believe Clickhappy has previously reported that ZA001 has been returned to the hangar, though this might pertain to the completion of those final gauntlet tests originally planned for after first flight.
He also said not to expect it to leave the building before school starts, so they may be running various gauntlets and ground testing in there, but it leaves them the opportunity to jack up the aircraft, remove engines, wings, etc.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
WarRI1 From United States, joined Sep 2007, 2312 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9494 times:
Give Boeing a break, it is progress, the aircraft will fly eventually, It is better safe than sorry. All this gloom and doom, I think Boeing is up to the job. I do not think the future of Boeing or this aircraft is riding on opinions.
Manfredj From United States, joined Mar 2007, 850 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9380 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9): As I undderstand it, ZA001 can fly now, but Boeing wanted to be on the caution side of things. Yes, I also heard the planes can be fixed on the ramp and no need to go into a hanger. That tells me the fix is relitively minor.
Where did you hear this news? If so, I'm relieved. Even though in my heart I knew it wasn't going to be a catastophic problem, all the speculation in here had me almost second guessing myself.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): He also said not to expect it to leave the building before school starts
When does school start? I hope it's summer classes.
LY4XELD From United States, joined Mar 2000, 800 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9090 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10): It has been brought back into the factory, and the wings may be removed in order to better study the retrofitting of the fix. #1 is the muliest of the test mules, after all. She gets abused far more than the others when it comes to structural work.
You can see for yourself this is completely false. Go to the future of flight center across from the Boeing ramp and you'll see ZA001 still outside.
Manfredj From United States, joined Mar 2007, 850 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9090 times:
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15): It actually IS riding on the opinions of the people who buy commercial airliners, and right now Boeing's credibility is at a nadir.
Actually, it's quite opposite. If anything I would hold them high on my standards. The 727 was one of the best airplanes of its time. The 757 is one of a kind. Need I say more about the 777? The 747?
I rely on Boeing to do what they have to in order to provide the best airplane. If that means the 787 is delayed 2 years, then so be it. At least I know from HISTORY that I'm getting one heck of an airplane.
You see, the trials and tribulations Boeing is going through with composites is such a leap in technology. Yes it has been a difficult learning curve, but once all is a go, they will be so far ahead of the game, the sky is the limit. Hard work now= success in the future.
Credibility is sooo much more than meeting a deadline required by its shareholders and wallstreet. In the end, it's all about building a fantastic airplane. That's what they are in business to do.
NYC777 From United States, joined Jun 2004, 4298 posts, RR: 46 Reply 16, posted (5 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8517 times:
Quoting Starrion (Reply 3): Does this mean that they'll use Za002 to do the taxi tests, and the RTO until za001 comes out with the fix?
No, all the the aircraft (even production aircraft) have to go through taxi tests and RTO. The side of body issue is for the entire 787 fleet both built and unbuilt so they have fix the issue on ZA001 and ZA002 and all the other airplanes coming through the pipeline.
Also ZA001 has started final gauntlet testing as I reported earlier today. I anticipate that this testing would be completed over the weekend and that taxi tests on ZA001 can perhaps begin as early as early to mid next week.
Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 4): Nice, but is it really progress? Aren't they going to remove her wings again?
No the fix would not mean the removal of the wings but of the fairings surrounding the side of body join on the upper wing area.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8): Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with the fix and how it would be implemented. It has been brought back into the factory, and the wings may be removed in order to better study the retrofitting of the fix. #1 is the muliest of the test mules, after all. She gets abused far more than the others when it comes to structural work.
No they won't bring ZA001 back into the factory, they could study ZY997, the static test airframe is they need any more information. Boeing has said that all the test flight aircraft will be kept in a flight ready condition until they're ready to fly after the fix is implemented. ZA001 has not been bought back into the factory, it is outside conductin final gauntlet testing and they can't do that inside, they need to run the engines for those tests.
Iwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1100 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7664 times:
I'll believe this thing works when its been in the air for 3-4 months. AFAIK, firing up an engine 2-years late is hardly anything to be excited about, especially since there is no clue at all as to when its going to fly.
Granted, but progress is progress. Does anyone know if the schedule for the remaining prototypes has changed any (besides the fix)? I know the schedule for them is published somewhere. I'm not being lazy, I simply don't have much time, so please bear with me. Can anyone give a quick glimpse of what the last known schedule was? I recall something about #3 not necessarily following #2 out.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18447 posts, RR: 59 Reply 21, posted (5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6980 times:
Quoting Manfredj (Reply 12): When does school start? I hope it's summer classes.
In the Eastern USA, it's generally Labor Day week (first week of September), but in the midwest it can be August. I don't know what it is in Seattle.
Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 14): You can see for yourself this is completely false. Go to the future of flight center across from the Boeing ramp and you'll see ZA001 still outside.
Then she was taken BACK outside. It is/was NOT false. She WAS brought back into the factory last week.
Thanks for the latest information, but it's pretty rude to call information FALSE when it's just outdated.
ClickHappy's people, who have been right about a lot of things, expected it to stay there.
That it's back out may be a good sign. Maybe the fix won't require as much work as some have predicted. It would be good for the program if it was simple.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
CFBFrame From United States, joined May 2009, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6479 times:
If someone can help me with these two things it would be most appreciated.
1. On the picture of N787EX from June 26 on the Paine Field website , there was a section of the body removed just above the rear section of the wing. Is that one of the failure points? On another note, based on the number of panels removed the 787 has a significnat number of removable panels to be produced as single barrel sections.
2. I've seen pictures of both a/c tail sections (again on the Paine Field website) with quite a few panels removed. Could someone speculate on what is being done in that region of the a/c. I don't know exact dates of the pictures, but the timing was thorughout both a/c being on the flightline.
NYC777 From United States, joined Jun 2004, 4298 posts, RR: 46 Reply 23, posted (5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6221 times:
Quoting 757GB (Reply 20): Granted, but progress is progress. Does anyone know if the schedule for the remaining prototypes has changed any (besides the fix)?
Well until they get the fix implemented they will do all sorts of ground testing. I rather suspect that ground test that were put off until after first flight are now moved up and I'm going to try and find out on that.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18447 posts, RR: 59 Reply 24, posted (5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5987 times:
Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 22): 1. On the picture of N787EX from June 26 on the Paine Field website , there was a section of the body removed just above the rear section of the wing. Is that one of the failure points? On another note, based on the number of panels removed the 787 has a significnat number of removable panels to be produced as single barrel sections.
Yeah, I was thinking that too when I saw all those panels removed before final gauntlet. Seems like a lot of panels...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
LY4XELD From United States, joined Mar 2000, 800 posts, RR: 6 Reply 25, posted (5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5925 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21): Then she was taken BACK outside. It is/was NOT false. She WAS brought back into the factory last week.
Absolutely wrong. ZA001 was NEVER brought back into the factory. I work out there every day and it has not moved since it rolled into the stall.
That's why we're here.
26 LY4XELD: None of the "body" can be removed. Panels, yes. The number of panels really has nothing to do with the number of barrel sections the airplane is made
27 Trigged: Wow... we start August 5th. But did ZA001 go back to the hangar or not?
28 CFBFrame: LY4XELD Reply 26[i/] [i]None of the "body" can be removed. Panels, yes. The number of panels really has nothing to do with the number of barrel sectio
29 Clickhappy: ZA001 is still on the flightline. It won't go back into the factory until: 1) The fix is "known" 2) The machine shop mills the parts 3) There is room
30 KC135TopBoom: It could be anything. But my guess is it may be to run the test equipment/recorders wiring and sensors. It could also be to double check measurements
32 Ikramerica: As I've said before, considering there are as many ground hours as flight hours required for certification, this time won't be put to waste as some p
33 MillwallSean: Why does cheerleaders still insist on saying the plane can fly. It cant, Boeing would have done everything within their power to get it airborne acco
34 757GB: With all due respect, if somebody starts the statement with the words "as I understand it" that person is not insisting, he's relaying the informatio
35 Stitch: Well if they are "cheerleaders" they are at least informed cheerleaders. The President of Boeing Commercial Airplanes stated that ZA001 can fly. So w
36 CFBFrame: I'm learning that these type comments are not worth answering because they cause the post to go on for far too long. So can we just agree to disagree
37 Lightsaber: Thank you for the update. Yea! How extensive is the gauntlet on ZA002 vs. ZA001? Some programs put the first five prototypes through a full gauntlet,
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I hope it's summer classes.
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