The Denver airport is planing a $1B makeover. Preliminary plans were presented to the city council yesterday. It appears the biggest change is to make the great hall under the big tent in the main terminal a sterile area. This would allow customers on the concourses to ride the train into the main terminal, exit into the great hall, shop & dine and ride back to their respective concourse without having to go through security. This would require security screening to be relocated, which could cause the relocation or redesign of ticket counters and baggage carousels.
Personally, I think it's a dumb idea. The only plans that make sense is the addition of a new train station plaza, which will eventually allow for rail from the airport to downtown as well as the construction of a new hotel.
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 6337 posts, RR: 15 Reply 1, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9981 times:
Well a while back they installed what I assume was really done for southwest this ugly orange/yellow carpeting in concourse C that looks like someone threw up. Funny how that only changed once WN started flying in.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Hatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 904 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9949 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1): Well a while back they installed what I assume was really done for southwest this ugly orange/yellow carpeting in concourse C that looks like someone threw up. Funny how that only changed once WN started flying in.
Yeah that carpet is honestly the worst color. The only good addition was the moving sidewalks.
Quoting KingCavalier (Thread starter): Personally, I think it's a dumb idea. The only plans that make sense is the addition of a new train station plaza, which will eventually allow for rail from the airport to down as well as the construction of a new hotel.
KingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 791 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9938 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1): Well a while back they installed what I assume was really done for southwest this ugly orange/yellow carpeting in concourse C that looks like someone threw up. Funny how that only changed once WN started flying in.
I would say more red than orange. However, the entire airport was re-carpeted. Concourse A is green, which works well for F9. Concourse B has not been re-carpeted. The new carpet looks good IMO, but the texture is thick and makes it difficult to roll a bag. I can certainly see what you're saying about the carpet on C, though. It is a little in your face, but doesn't most airport carpet remind you of a casino?
B752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9804 times:
Quoting Trigged (Reply 5): You mean the airport that was budgeted for something like $2bn, cost taxpayers about $5bn, and they want to spend another $1bn now? Wow.
I miss Stapleton.
Would it really cost $1 Billion dollars to move security screening and ticketing? That seems like an awfully high cost.
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5079 posts, RR: 37 Reply 8, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9770 times:
The Denver Post article says the $1 Billion terminal makeowver would include: "a new FasTracks train station at DIA, a train-station plaza, rail bridges for the route into the airport and a new Westin hotel adjacent to the terminal. " http://www.denverpost.com/frontpage/ci_12737663
[Edited 2009-07-02 08:07:59]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
ADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9759 times:
This just sounds stupid. How long of a connection would one need to decide to get on the train to go to the Great Hall to get some different food? 2 hours?
At DIA you rarely need to get on the train to connect if you are staying on the same airline and all the concourses have food.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 5550 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9678 times:
The light rail to the airport is a great idea...long overdue. As for the airport facilities itself, however, I don't think much needs to be done. It's still one of the nicer and more user friendly airports in the country.
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 589 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9629 times:
Quoting ADent (Reply 9): This just sounds stupid. How long of a connection would one need to decide to get on the train to go to the Great Hall to get some different food? 2 hours?
At least 2 hours! Remember, unlike ATL your concourse access options are the train or the train (no walkway tunnels)...and i have seen those train pit stops back up BIG time.
The light rail access has been a LONG time coming...IIRC it was part of the initial DIA proposal and was shelved for cost reasons.
You mean the airport that was budgeted for something like $2bn, cost taxpayers about $5bn, and they want to spend another $1bn now? Wow.
Go look at how much it is costing LAX to move one runway a hundred feet, and the complain about how much DEN has cost again. DEN was absolutely the right decision, and it has paid off in spades for the city of Denver.
Security Setup I am a bit ambivalent about. The current setup works so well that other airports - particularly ATL are copying it. The airport was designed to be able to make the main concourse sterile if needed (there are not a lot of open escalators in and out, and it would be easy to restrict the area) but you also would loose the fantastic fountain area for passengers arriving at the airport.
All said, I think I would rather see them stack some gate space onto A concourse and put in the train station and hotel then this.
GODIA From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9505 times:
I read this story and shook my head. The sheer stupidity of this is mind-boggling. What will this do to handicapped passengers, who might need help from family members? Does anyone (other than the dopes at the City and County Building and some moronic airport managers) REALLY believe anybody is going to take the train, just to SHOP in the terminal? And, when the poor fool who does ends up missing his connection, his airline won't reimburse him...and then he'll sue.
Some people think that hiring that well-known Spanish architect will give this credibility...but the cost is WAY OUT THERE. Maybe the local guy who designed the ugly horse sculpture on Pena Blvd could do the job for less!
BlueF9A320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9466 times:
Quoting GODIA (Reply 13): Some people think that hiring that well-known Spanish architect will give this credibility...but the cost is WAY OUT THERE. Maybe the local guy who designed the ugly horse sculpture on Pena Blvd could do the job for less!
Unfortunately the sculpture fell on on him and killed him before it was installed. So he won't be available...
AirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2583 posts, RR: 41 Reply 15, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9411 times:
By the way, I completely missed the Calatrava point. Calatrava is a staggering architect.
Quoting GODIA (Reply 13): I read this story and shook my head. The sheer stupidity of this is mind-boggling. What will this do to handicapped passengers, who might need help from family members? Does anyone (other than the dopes at the City and County Building and some moronic airport managers) REALLY believe anybody is going to take the train, just to SHOP in the terminal? And, when the poor fool who does ends up missing his connection, his airline won't reimburse him...and then he'll sue.
That was my first reaction, the more I think about this, the more I like it. I would point to airports like LHR and AMS that really maximize the use of sterile space, and result in a system that not only generates revenue but makes waiting for planes much much nicer.
The question is, can they do this without making the security system and arrival area ghetto? The more I think about the existing architecture, the more I think that they can.
Quoting GODIA (Reply 13):
Some people think that hiring that well-known Spanish architect will give this credibility...but the cost is WAY OUT THERE. Maybe the local guy who designed the ugly horse sculpture on Pena Blvd could do the job for less!
Sorry, Calavatra is a huge asset to this project. He designs will fit perfectly for the city, and result in a space for the train system and hotel that help Denver International's image. It will help make the Light Rail line the prerfered way to get to and from the airport.
Allegro From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9276 times:
Quoting KingCavalier (Thread starter): Personally, I think it's a dumb idea. The only plans that make sense is the addition of a new train station plaza, which will eventually allow for rail from the airport to downtown as well as the construction of a new hotel.
Totally agree. Moving the Security check-in so that the shops have more customers (doubtful as the concourses have excellent options), is a HUGE waste of money. Unbelieveable.
I am all for inter-modal tranportation, so the light-rail is an good idea, but not critical.
As a big fan of Calatrava, any excuse to to see his work is OK with me, but at what expense?
The thought that this [relatively] new airport needs $1B upgrade just screams mis-management and disregard for taxpayer dollars ... but not a surprise given the way the Federal government is wasting money.
KingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 791 posts, RR: 21 Reply 17, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9126 times:
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8): The Denver Post article says the $1 Billion terminal makeowver would include:
"a new FasTracks train station at DIA, a train-station plaza, rail bridges for the route into the airport and a new Westin hotel adjacent to the terminal. " http://www.denverpost.com/frontpage/...37663
There is a poll on this news page and so far 61% of those polled are against the plan.
CALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3476 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9126 times:
problem is that the city wants teh airlines to help fund teh cost of the rail to the airport. that is not going to happen. so i dont see the rail anytime in the next decade.
okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
AirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2583 posts, RR: 41 Reply 19, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9031 times:
Quoting Allegro (Reply 16):
I am all for inter-modal tranportation, so the light-rail is an good idea, but not critical.
No, it really is critical. Partially that is because what Denver is doing in terms of it's incredible build out of light rail (it will easily be the most light rail accessible city of it's size when FastTrax + T-Rex is done) but also because there have been lots of situations where the airfield at Denver is open, but Pena blvd is impassible.
Quoting Allegro (Reply 16): As a big fan of Calatrava, any excuse to to see his work is OK with me, but at what expense?
80-160 million for planning out a transition to be a site that generates more revenue, the train station, hotel and concourse expansion (plus two new bridges) seems like a no brainier for me given Calatrava being involved.
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 18): problem is that the city wants the airlines to help fund the cost of the rail to the airport. that is not going to happen. so i don't see the rail anytime in the next decade.
(fixed many typos)
This is incorrect. The funding for the rail comes from a large tax measure called FastTracks that was approved here two years ago. All DEN will be responsible for is part of the cost of the train station. Given that the airlines share revenue from concessions and what not, that's not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination.
Quoting Allegro (Reply 16):
The thought that this [relatively] new airport needs $1B upgrade just screams mis-management and disregard for taxpayer dollars ... but not a surprise given the way the Federal government is wasting money.
The airport was always designed to require upgrades as certain traffic benchmarks were hit, and as the world changed. That trigger point for the next set of upgrades was 50 million passengers per year. With three hubbing airlines, we blew past that last year easily.
Again, compare what is being talked about - hotel, main terminal expansion, train station, and increased retail space - and compare that with what LAX is paying to move a single runway.
N104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 847 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8994 times:
This is such a stupid idea. There are plenty of shops on the 3 Concourses, and I doubt that very many people will take the tram to the main terminal to shop, look how many people don't even shop on the concourses.
DEN is basically the only airport with shops before security so people coming to pick people up, and in DEN there are a lot who do, can go shopping
I hope the city council does not spend this $1b on such a stupid thing, they basically would be completely re-buliding the airport
"Forget regret or life is yours to miss...no other road no other way no day but today"
ExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2255 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8987 times:
It's been a while since I've been through DEN, but I don't remember the airport exactly having a shortage of restaurants and such post-security, so I'm not sure how much revenue would be gained through moving the Great Hall into the sterile area. Most connecting passengers just want a bite to eat and maybe a new book or a few magazines, and DEN can already provide that. A quick look at the DEN website doesn't really suggest there's so much more selection in what's currently pre-security that it would entice connecting passengers to spend more money, so they could just wind up moving spending from concourse vendors to terminal vendors...actually, if the move prevented non-traveling folks dropping off friends or family from spending in the Great Hall, it could even result in a drop in total spending.
Also, why are airport revenues being used for the hotel? If there's demand for a hotel, shouldn't that be built by the private sector?
Quoting GODIA (Reply 13): What will this do to handicapped passengers, who might need help from family members?
I wouldn't think this is that big an issue, since right now anyone accompanying a handicapped passenger has to get a pass to go through security anyway - the relocation of security doesn't change that.
Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 15): Sorry, Calavatra is a huge asset to this project. He designs will fit perfectly for the city, and result in a space for the train system and hotel that help Denver International's image. It will help make the Light Rail line the prerfered way to get to and from the airport.
Quoting Allegro (Reply 16): As a big fan of Calatrava, any excuse to to see his work is OK with me, but at what expense?
Calavatra is a brilliant architect, but he has to be on a tight budgetary and practicality leash, as we here in NYC have learned from the ongoing problems with the WTC PATH station.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 4243 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8948 times:
Quoting KingCavalier (Thread starter): It appears the biggest change is to make the great hall under the big tent in the main terminal a sterile area. This would allow customers on the concourses to ride the train into the main terminal, exit into the great hall, shop & dine and ride back to their respective concourse without having to go through security.
It may make sense. That is how most new airports are designed today, and especially so for predominantly hub airport where the majority of passengers are just transferring between planes. It brings in more revenue, while getting people out of the crowded concourses.
WarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2702 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8908 times:
Quoting Trigged (Reply 5): You mean the airport that was budgeted for something like $2bn, cost taxpayers about $5bn, and they want to spend another $1bn now? Wow.
That is the type of spending that has all of us in the soup now, a billion here, a billion there, it is spent like "funny" money, someone is paying, and it is us. Of course the "big" payments come from "special interests" I bet the 1 billion price does not include financing.
CALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3476 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8891 times:
Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 19): his is incorrect. The funding for the rail comes from a large tax measure called FastTracks that was approved here two years ago. All DEN will be responsible for is part of the cost of the train station. Given that the airlines share revenue from concessions and what not, that's not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination.
a few years ago they approached the airlines saying that they should be the major funds for this. its "their" passengers taht will be using it.
okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
25 BlueF9A320: When did this occur? Do you have a source?
26 AirFrnt: I'm not sure why you keep asserting that this is true now. The rail lines are funded separately. Check out: http://rtd-denver.com/ Your assertion tha
27 Jbernie: 1) build the hotel... absolutely yes, there is already a captive audience for when we have weather issues and it has many benefits just for the Airlin
28 Mikey711MN: I am unsure of the exact funding mechanism for FastTracks, but as you stated, it is a fully-funded project with a green light for rail to DEN. That s
29 BA: As a Denver resident who regularly uses DEN (used it this past Sunday), I am all for the Westin hotel by the terminal and the RTD rail line to downtow
30 BlueF9A320: FasTracks is funded by a 0.4 cent increase in sales tax in the transit district
31 Mariner: One of the great architects at work today - I love the Milwaukee Art Museum: http://www.mam.org/info/details/quadracci.php But I'm confused as to his
32 Mikey711MN: Again, I understand that FasTracks is funded. (and thank you for the spelling correction) My curiosity is what defines the FastTracks project. In my
33 CALMSP: not taking about from downtown, but an extension to the airport.
34 BlueF9A320: There isn't an East Corridor line yet so there isn't anything to extend at this point. So any line to the airport would have to originate from downto
35 AirframeAS: They are also doing construction now on the east side of Concourse A. I agree. It is needed. Why should the airlines have to fund it. The City of Den
36 Airbazar: Not just. Look at all the great hubs of the World. SIN, DXB, AMS, etc.
37 CALMSP: I'm not saying they should.........airlines came back and told them to take a hike. People are going to use DEN wether there is a rail or not. its lu
38 BlueF9A320: Why do you keep insisting the airlines were asked to fund the rail line? When did this happen? You're right, it is ludicrous to ask them to pay for i
39 Steeler83: That does sound like an insanely dumb idea, as many have said on here, DEN is a very nice airport. I love that tent! I've never flown into DEN, but I
40 PITops: It's only 14 years old. It doesn't need this much of a makeover. I agree with the train stations and hotel but moving security... no. That's one of t
41 Steeler83: Ditto that! Ditto that... They should have moved some of the shops from A and B over to the airside terminal when those concourses were closed off...
42 KingCavalier: I agree, so the question becomes "Why would they take this away from the people picking passengers up?" They need buying options as well. As for the
43 Stburke: Agreed, hideous. But I like how Concourse B is blue for UA and Concourse A is green for F9. I have a tough time understanding the rationalization for
44 AirframeAS: There are hotels on Tower Rd. but not enough of them, however.
45 AirFrnt: It's completely tax payer funded. There will be a extension vote shortly, but the Denver to Airport line is gold and moving ahead. The Denver busines
46 AirFrnt: Of the 6.4 billion dollars earmarked (without the current shortages) for the project, only 1.0 billion is from the Fed. The remaining monies are supp
47 CALMSP: you're right...........they were joking when they made that statement.......what was I thinking?
48 BA: Only the North Metro line will be DMU commuter rail. They recently decided that the Boulder line, Gold Line, and airport line will all be EMU commute
49 Steeler83: Wow, a thread about airport and transit planning now. My kind of thread! So I guess this would make Union Pac Station some kind of intermodal hub, pro
50 Jbernie: Any remote chance that they can make it such that everyone can go through to the sterile area after the appropriate security check of course? That wa
51 BA: That's correct. RTD will be transforming Denver Union Station into an intermodal transit hub for intercity rail (Amtrak), commuter rail, light-rail,
52 UAL747DEN: Okay let me try to clear some things up! Handicapped passengers won't see any change is the level of service. The family member cannot help the pax to
53 KGAIflyer: Actually, if it wasn't for conventions, I would probably never visit Denver city ever -- although I change planes at the airport all the time. One thi
54 Denverdanny: I don't think it's a good idea to make the Great Hall into a sterile area. As some have mentioned, it's nice to have a place to sit down with someone
55 AirframeAS: Huh?! The trains are every 4 minutes. I don't see a problem with that. The artwork that is being sold in the art shops are totally boring. I rarely s
56 Manny: I don't know if this has been pointed out as yet. But at DIA passengers can already visit All concourses A, B and C once they have cleared the securit
57 Steeler83: Of course... But is it really going to be necessary to spend $1 billion on such a project? I guess that's the part that is dumb. In that sense, if I
58 BA: It's not the only one. There are plenty of new airports that are a long distance from the city. Athens' new airport is quite a distance from the city
59 Mariner: Is it so far? I think NRT to central Tokyo is quite a lot further. mariner
60 Denverdanny: It's not just the Great Hall security changes that are costing that much. It's also going to pay for the Terminal expansion, train station/plaza, hot
61 Denverdanny: It takes 11 minutes to make the round trip at all times? Or just during peak? And does this include how long you have to wait for the train to come?
62 DenverDanny: You're just taking information off of the website, regardless of whether that is experience or not.
63 Steeler83: Ah... all of that I could see making up the bulk of that billion dollar price tag, especially the hotel and terminal expansion... How many rooms is t
64 UAL747DEN: The information on the website is the correct information. The trains are automated trains and the computer system sets their trip time. It is true h
65 Mkorpal: I'm confused as to how they expect to do this without major reconstruction. Are they planning to put the security checkpoints at the 4 corridors betwe
66 KGAIflyer: Not to mention that the tunnel connecting concourses B and C at ORD is beginning to leak. And since it's under an active taxiway, there is probably n
67 ExFATboy: A good point, but is there really that much more demand for hotels near the airport? I just looked on Hotels.com, and they show 13 hotels near the ai
68 DenverDanny: 500 rooms, 26,000 sq ft conference/meeting space, health club swimming pool and restaurants. They've been talking about this hotel for years though.
69 UAL747DEN: Im sure the plans will be released fairly soon but no the mess you discribe is not at all what will happen. The security areas will still be in big o
70 AirframeAS: And to add, it totally removes the NIMBY factor as well. I work at DEN. Yep. It's a pretty good tram system.
71 Mah584jr: I can't speak for Las Vegas or Chicago, but the Orlando Convention Center is magnificent. It's the largest on the east coast and it very modern. I ha
72 BA: The trains always operate at the same average speed. I believe between 6AM and 9PM, they operate the maximum number of trains possible in the system
73 AirframeAS: You can find these on Tower Road. And there is a lot of space for new hotels. IIRC, right now, there are two hotels being built at the moment.
74 AirFrnt: Huh? I used to transit from DEN about once a week. I never have waited more then ~3 minutes for a train. It may feel like a lot longer when you are l
75 F9fan: see Denver Union Station's website Currently, except during late night hours, trains run every 90 seconds and take about two minutes from concourse C
76 Mkorpal: Thanks. I guess I'm having a hard time imagining what they are going to do to this place. I guess I just believe that if it isn't broken, why fix it?
77 BA: It's about 6 minutes travel time, not 2 minutes. Frequency is about every 2 minutes. Actually Denverdanny is right. What you refer to on pages 3 and
78 AirframeAS: Does anyone have some sort of drawings of what the DEN airport should look like after the proposed expansion is completed?
79 Steeler83: Sounds like an enormous undertaking. How many floors? I would imagine at least 12 or 13. I saw portions of the master plan. It looks like they could
80 F9fan: Yikes! What are they thinking? and besides, what are those two buildings on Wewatta behind the terminal for? Well, at least passengers transferring f
81 BA: I don't think there are any out yet. The project manager and architect were just recently contracted. The original hotel plan I believe called for a
82 Allegro: Good point! If traffic grows then there is a definite to exapnad facilities. IIRC, airport properties are the biggest generator of tax revenues and i
83 Falcon84: $1 Billion, for an airport THAT YOUNG? You're kidding, right?
84 AirframeAS: The airport is ~13 years old or so.....and growing.
85 Jbernie: The hotel & light rail probably should be the main focus, changing the security area could be nice but of debatable use, how much of the DEN traffic n
87 Enilria: United and Southwest probably want to do this because it will ruin the convenience of A concourse which has its own TSA checkpoint which is usually l
88 AirframeAS: Once again, another anti-F9 response from you. UA and WN wouldn't care. The checkpoint at the bridge to A concourse has been there since the airport
89 BA: Security over the bridge into Concourse A can be quite congested and slow. There just isn't much space for queue lines like in the main terminal. Tha
90 AirframeAS: The outbound walkways are only turned off at night when the last F9 flight leaves. Not sure what your point is...
91 BA: I'm talking about the moving walkways before security, not on the bridge itself. There is one that is permanently off, day and night, because it ends
92 AirframeAS: I was talking about the same thing. They are on during the day, but shut off at night. And I non-revved two weeks ago, both were on.
93 BA: They are always off when I've used them and I always went through the bridge during the day. I last went through in March when I flew out on BA to LH
94 AirframeAS: Well, I work at DIA and I can tell you they are on during the day.
95 BA: Like I said, every time I've went through them during the day over the past 7 years, they were off. You working there doesn't change that fact.
96 AirframeAS: I'm not going to argue with you. The fact is that they are now on. End of story.
97 AirportGuy1971: I'll eat my hat if you can prove all 4 of the walk ways have been on at any point in the last 2 years. The second northbound walkway leading TO the c
98 AirframeAS: So am I. Oh give me a break.... I got that info off of the non-rev website, only finding out later it was wrong and I stood corrected. Give me a brea
99 Mcg: [quote=AirportGuy1971,reply=97] Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 96): I'm not going to argue with you. The fact is that they are now on. End of story. The se
100 AirframeAS: Well then with that logic, they turn them off when the line gets backed up. Everytime I am up there, they are always, always on. The lines are never
101 AirportGuy1971: You're inside the airport every day? I thought you were a mechanic. What type of work do you do that leads you inside daily?
102 AirframeAS: Mechanic yes. I come over to the A concourse frequently for lunch. And during those times, the moving walkways have always been on. I'm done debating
103 BA: To the Jeppesen Terminal of course. There is no point in it terminating at the Pikes Peak Shuttle Parking only to catch a bus to the terminal.
104 Slcdeltarumd11: I am hoping that most of this expense is for the train connection ? An airport this young. Is this a joke? To need to spend this much money when it cu
105 AirFRNT: UA does not own the airport. Denver does What you miss in this calculation is that Denver is actually the further away - on average - then the aurora
106 BA: Salt Lake City is building a light-rail line to the airport. Denver is building an electric commuter rail line to the airport which is larger and run
107 AirframeAS: Actually, there are still airports that are catching up with the times on the light rail projects around the country. A good example is PDX and DCA.
108 AirFRNT: Heathrow connect moves quite a bit faster, but has more distance to cover. (BTW, why don't people ever complain about the distance from London to LHR
109 BA: The Heathrow Express/Heathrow Connect route is 16.5 miles. The DEN train will be 23.6 miles. Here's a computer generated image of the DEN train near
110 Airbazar: It may have opened 14 years ago but it was designed a long time before that, when air travel was very different than what it is today. And that's to
111 Airfrnt: One of the big challenges is that prior to 9/11 you could assume that consumers could go all the way to the retail on the concourses, even if they we
112 AirframeAS: While we are discussing DEN....here is a good read about DEN in the NBC Channel 9 website... DIA has fewest passenger complaints It basically talks ab
113 Jbernie: not really... an average of 100 people per airport, given the hours of operations being almost 24*7 at some places, and needing to provide a certain
114 Slcdeltarumd11: boulder to DEN is 42.28 miles. If you somehow never slowed down/stopped/stopped you would need to travel at 126.8 miles per hour. I am calcualting no
115 Enilria: Your response doesn't even make sense. Why would me pointing out that UA and WN might be using this to make A concourse less convenient be considered
116 BA: The Downtown Denver to Boulder train is another line called the Northwest Corridor. It will go passed Boulder to Longmont. The original plan was for
117 Mariner: I'd be interested to hear your views on that. I cannot think when Frontier was "pampered" by DIA. That's a long saga, with more variations than you s
118 BA: This is a topic outside the scope of this thread, but I already gave you some examples. I remember the saga quite well. While it's true that the airp
119 Mariner: It may be outside the scope of this thread, but you have raised it and I think it has to be addressed. By October 2003, Frontier's gate situation was
120 BA: I agree that the gates were underused, although post-9/11, UA was largely using them for UAX flights as its regional facilities on Concourse B were i
121 Mariner: Whether or not United got its regional concourse is a matter between United and DIA. But I'd say $110 million debt relief (plus a cash payment) was p
122 BA: Just as the Frontier gates issue is a matter between Frontier and DIA. In the end, Frontier got the additional gates it had wanted, despite not expan
123 Mariner: And United was a critical player in that. But if DIA had agreed to a regional facility and then did not build what United wanted, Frontier is not in
124 BA: My point is that F9 was accommodated and got the additional gates it needed. UA abided by its end of the 2003 deal mentioned, but did not get the reg
125 AirFRNT: I am afraid I am going to have to agree with Mariner here, much to my own disapointment. As much as I like the Hickenlooper administration, they clea
126 Mariner: In the 2003 agreement, United agreed to make better use of the A gates it still had. I believe they agreed to minimums in numbers of flights. It wasn
127 Flighty: The surprising thing to me is that there are 450 federally inspected commercial airports. 450!!!! We all know some of these airports have more TSA ag
128 BA: The 2003 agreement called for UA to maintain a minimum of three flights a day out of every A gate. Under the 2005 agreement, it was increased to a mi
129 Mariner: Which United had not been doing, which is what started the whole kerfuffle. I also note that United easily moved their flights from A to B without an
130 Enilria: It seems we've found another area of agreement between us. I'd argue even now that the brain-trust at DIA is solely focused on United (and a little o
131 AirFRNT: It already is completely mixed. I would guess about half of the passengers for F9 take the train, the other half walk. It also might be positive for
132 Mcg: I agree, the walk over the bridge is more fun, but using the main security screening is almost always faster. The reason for this is that there usual
133 BA: You misunderstood what I said. I never said I support making the great hall sterile nor did I say I expect a significant flow of transit passengers a
134 ADent: Light rail "phenomenally successful"? We have two lines that are regularly used. The second line cost $700,000,000 for 11 miles of track, carry an ave
135 Mcg: I'd say Fastracks is in pretty deep trouble. The only progress made in five years is to conclude that RTD didn't ask for nearly enough money and will
136 AirframeAS: Who is going to pay for the west line that goes from downtown Denver to Westminster to Boulder and Longmont?
137 Enilria: I apologize if I misunderstood. If people think the A concourse checkpoint is no longer the better place to process TSA then I withdraw my comment ab
138 AirframeAS: This, I totally agree with you on. There isn't much in on the other two concourses (B and C) and there is a lot of space in the middle of each one, i
139 BA: Sorry, I thought you were talking about the levels of the bridge itself, but now I reread and see that you are talking about the mezzanine level of C
140 Jbernie: From someone who grew up using public transit in Sydney all my life, the worst thing they did with T-Rex was the interstate expansion, if they really
141 Enilria: What is even stupider is that there is stuff up there on B concourse when there is no natural flow of passengers up there. Meaning, there is no real
142 BA: A lot of people go to the mezzanine levels of the concourses just to find a more quiet place to sit and use the airport's free wifi. A few years ago,
143 AirframeAS: That's because there is a Crocs store and Jamba Juice up there blocking the flow of traffic. The Crocs store takes up almost the entire space on thei
144 AirFrnt: Interestingly enough, I just got my hands on the second revision of airport layout master plan. I also had a copy of the initial airport layout master
145 BA: AirFrnt, These might interest you if you haven't seen them already: http://www.flydenver.com/diabiz/comm...erplan/docs/masterPlanBrochure.pdf http://w
146 AirframeAS: A is being expanded on the east side of it at the moment.
147 F9fan: Have you been listening to John Caldara and Mike Rosen? To replicate light rail's capacity of 7,500 passengers per hour, you would have to build four
148 Jbernie: How many SUVs do we have on the highways here in rush hour with just a driver? We don't use the roads efficently in many ways so they can't complain
149 AirFrnt: Something that becomes very evident going back to the original discussion, the airport folks are not talking about a separate train station, hotel an
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