FedExIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5386 times:
Well.......They do have a 747 that comes into IND every day that is all white, with no markings. Maybe they didn't have time to paint it? Of course, all white is better than the DC-10-30 that has been seen on the FedEx Ramp at IND lately. It is in United Airlines colors!
AndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 996 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5378 times:
Didn't Evergreen buy out the assetts of Intermountain Airways, which was widely speculated to be a CIA front company? And its been suggested that some dodgy business occasionally goes on at Evergreen's airfield in Arizona (Pinal Air Park). Maybe that's where the idea comes from?
UPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 867 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5360 times:
If I tell you I'll have to kill you
Evergreen has done government work, but so has defunct Southern Air Cargo, Flying Tigers, heck UPS flew 747's along with others to Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm. UPS hauled alot of Humvee's during that time. I'm sure there were items on aircraft that involved national security. Evergreen also has an aircraft grave yard that is of high security. Aircraft parts aren't cheap
Evergreen actually operated UPS's fleet in the early to mid 1980's. Some pilots went to UPS, some didn't. Alot of UPS's 727's, DC-8's and a 74 or two also came from Evergreen.
DC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5350 times:
Any airline that does extensive contract work for the DOD/AMC (e.g. Southern Air Transport, Tower, Evergreen) is always suspected of being the "CIA's" airline.
I can tell you what I do know of them from very limited experience.
The pilot group at Evergreen is very professional. Very high percentage of military pilots. I interviewed with UAL, Atlas, and Evergreen in the same month last spring. I flew out to PDX and interviewed at Evergreen's training center (and HQ) in McMinneville, OR. While the pilots are treated fairly good, the pay is pretty low over all--however first year pay is relatively lucrative.
This company looks for 4000 TT and there is a good chance for the 747--which made it attractive and is why I applied. However, I was offered a FO position on the DC-9 (a move which would have set me back) and I turned it down. 747 Captains peak out at $140k while DC-9 Capts peak out at $100k. They ended up furloughing 7 pilots in August 2000 so I was pretty lucky not to go there, as it turned out. An old acquaintence who flew P-3s and wrote me a letter of recommendation started his days at Rich and bolted to Evergreen in 1996. He is real happy at Evergreen (747FO) and as a single guy is gone 20 days out of the month (including transit time). They stay busy.
The company is pretty involved in many endeavors. Their center in Pinal is just one of many enterprises, and they are qualified for all maintenance checks on virtually every large western airliner (Lockheed, Boeing, Airbus, McDonnell-Douglas). I have never heard of anything shady taking place out there.
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5332 times:
Having had the privilege of visiting Pinal six years ago and being escorted around for a half day by a VP on a shoot what you want - ask what you want basis, I had no question turned down or avoided and this was in line with my previous dealings with the company.
They certainly work on government contracts - but so did Pan Am whose 747s SCDs were converted at government expense for the strategic aircraft reserve.
The question of Intermountain is interesting, I came across one of their DHC6s at Wilkes Barre in 1988 and whilst the airport security guy I was with had no problem about me shooting it, he did comment that I shouldn't let the CIA know I had the shot!
Southern, in the 1980s, is a more open question, particularly its role in the Caribbean and across the Pacific.
Woodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1015 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5321 times:
I think this all harkens back to the days of Air America which was of course a front name for all the US Government airdrop and arms running in Laos and Vietnam in the 60s/70s. If I am right, I think that pilots and maybe even aircraft from Air America are what became Southern Air Transport. Evergreen and SIA did similar work with DOD and other government agencies as well as extensive oil field service and contract cargo hauling work.
When SIA went bust there were pilots and aircraft that Evergreen absorbed as well as business and contracts that SIA had held up to their demise. Evergreen is simply the last of the big government contract holders in the cargo and logistics business that isnt either in serious trouble or long since bankrupt. That may leave them as the only ones to still be the subject of such conjecture.
Lets face it, when you are working for the government you could very likely be hauling stuff for the CIA or Air Force or Treasure or Commerce or DEA or whomever. But no, Evergreen is by no means owned by the CIA!!
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5301 times:
Southern Air Transport were involved with the CIA, but if you want to talk about CIA front companies (other than Air America of course), ST LUCIA AIRWAYS COME ON DOWN!
Yep, those lovely sky blue (plus coincidence) 707s and L130s with the offshore reg were CIA planes. I don't think the airline exists anymore but they were completely owned and run by and for the CIA.
I'm sure certain members of upper management and ops at the likes of Evergreen have signed the US equivalent of the Official Secrets Act and the airlines are used to fulfil semi-secret gov't work. But nothing particularly dodgy, and not CIA front organisations!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
NRA-3B From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 159 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5303 times:
There is a good chance that some of the operations that were performed by companies such as Air America, Continental Air Services (CASI), Intermountain Aviation, and Southern Air Transport are still being carried out by cargo and services airlines like Evergreen.
If you visit the main lobby at Pinal Air Park (If you can get in!) you will be greeted by a large photo of George Doole, the founder of Intermountain, Evergreen, and Air America. Read whatever you want into this.
The CIA owned several companies back in the 60s and 70s through a front company known as Pacific Corporation. This was uncovered in 73 or 74 and they had to dissolve Air America, and sell Intermountain, Air Asia, and Southern Air Transport. I worked for Air America for 5 years, but never knew about the connection until we (Air Asia Co. LTD) were sold to E-Systems.
I'm sure that the CIA still has its contract work done by various airlines, as in the past, but no longer find it necessary to own these companies.
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5241 times:
Do we really have to get into the realms of fantasy?
Why would any "black" projects be stored at a civilian operation, especially when Edwards, Palmdale and the bases on the Nellis ranges, all which are used for secret and semi secret projects, are so close in terms of flying time? All have much better security than Pinal. Even Davis Monthan is more secure in certain areas.
Pinal is regularly visited by nationals of many different countries calling to visit to pick/deliver up aircraft on ferry or to see aircraft with a view to lease/purchase - just what the Pentagon and DoD would want for somewhere they sometimes store black aircraft.
The airfield is not subject to any overfly restrictions and visitors, like myself, can still get photo access if they know the right person.
The reason Pinal is so security conscious is that the value of the aircraft stored is higher, in terms of parts,
than that of the whole airframes - and many of the aircraft beung "parted out" become vulnerable to theft.
There is a vast open area, that if not secured at ground level, could be the subject of pilfering, or just stupid vandalism and the airfield is, after all, private property.
Jfidler From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5219 times:
Why exactly would the CIA want to run an airline front? I could think of two reasons: pax and cargo. But if they need to get their agents around, isn't it less conspicuous to take normal commercial airlines? And if they need to ship sensitive cargo, can't they just box it up and send it on a military transport plane?
PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 5179 times:
Next time I'm in the States, I'll look very carefully at every farmstrip hangar just in case there is a black project RPV or, perhaps, an Aurora hidden behind the Cessna 172, Ag-Wagon and barrels of gas.
A much better hiding place than a busy airfield with hundreds of unvetted workers and visitors