The last sentence is the most interesting. The VP of Turkish Airlines is quoted as being in negotiations with A and B about a possible order of A380s and/or 787s. A decision will be made soon.
Thorben From Germany, joined Sep 2005, 3233 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5769 times:
It also says that they want to become the largest carrier in Europe. Leaving aside geography, how are they ever going to be bigger than BA, AF/KL, or LH? Hard to imagine, even if they are using IST mainly as a hub between Europe and Asia.
Shankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1146 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5713 times:
Quoting Thorben (Reply 2): Leaving aside geography, how are they ever going to be bigger than BA, AF/KL, or LH? Hard to imagine, even if they are using IST mainly as a hub between Europe and Asia.
For the first time this year I actually looked at TK for one of my trips to SA, largely on the basis of some good hear say about their Business Class product.
Doesn't quite work yet for me, but I believe IST is perhaps one the the great unlocked global hubs. If they can come up with a product like BA with a concept of interchange like EK, then they might indeed become a top 3 euro player.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 6795 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5457 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 7): Would be great to see a few A380's in TK fleet. They could use them on their Far East routes.
A huge silver rose on an A380 would surely look nice. I dont know for which route - but it´ll surely make sense to fly it to Little Istanbul at the beginning of the summer holidays, Berlin-Kreuzberg that is!
B777LRF From Bahrain, joined Nov 2008, 106 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5415 times:
Shankly,
Why on earth should TK lower their product standard to the level of BA? This from a guy who flies both TK and BA extensively. Well, not BA anymore for several reasons, chief amongst them the ever lowering service standards. Service/product standards are also, incidentially, the reason I often go via IST on TK, if it's in the general direction of where I need to go. They don't always offer the best of connections, I'll grant that, but the in-flight product is certainly amongt the best, if not the best, in Europe.
As for "interchange like EK" I assume you mean connections. No thanks on that one too; I don't really fancy connecting at 0'dark hundred if a more civilised time of the day is available.
What TK, or rather IST, need to do is work on the infrastructure. Present space in Yesilkoy is, however, very limited and will not support the runway spacing required to do parralel operations (not unless they bulldoze large parts of Yesilkoy that is)
If TK/IST/Turkey harbour major ambitions, and their plans seem to indicate that they do, the only viable option would be a green-field project to the NW of suburban Istanbul, with proper rail and road links.
As for TK purchasing A380s - that's got to be a typo. Look at the context; nobody is pitching the Routemaster against the Screamliner. A350 vs B787, now that I'll belive in, and I'll wager 1 dinar that the order will go in the direction of Toulouse.
FRNT787 From United States, joined Sep 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5379 times:
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 3): No mention of the A350 though which is strange as I thought that this order was a straight decision between the A350 and 787?
I thought so as well, but it seems to be that TK is looking to eventually have a widebodied fleet of :
A330
B787
B77W
A380
I am not sure what to think about the recent A330 order. I believe it may be to add to the fleet near term, and replace the current A330 frames once 787s come in (should they order them) and allow the new order 330s a few more years of operation.
I believe also that their recent 77W orders are a strong sign of commitment to this particular airframe. So the lack of A350 mention in this article can, IMO, be attributed to either an oversight, or to a potential decision by the airline that they may not need the A350. If the 787 order ends up being -9s, then I could easily see the latter being the case.
As for the A380 order, I simply dont know what to think on it.
Tulip, rose, doesnt matter as long as its a nice tree!
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 14): TK doesnt need the A 380 to operate to ANY of its existing routes...not now...not even in 10 years time.
Up to this year no one would have thought they would need 77Ws. Are they filling them? If yes, demand has grown a lot apparently, so why should some A380s not work in a few years? The step from A343 to 77W is not much smaller than from 77W to A380s.
I wonder more why they are interested in 787s when they just ordered A330s and 77W which pretty much cover the 787 territory at least up until around 2015. TK should be in a perfect state with its A330s and 77Ws to wait if the 787 or the A350 will win the midsize-jet race.
MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5173 times:
When we talk Turkish we must remember that this is an airline with a fairly large domestic market. a domestic market that has tons of VFR as a start.
Add on that they have many of the advantages geographically, in fact often the same advantages that the gulf carriers have, and that they have a low cost base.
Turkish can be a huge success if they play their cards right.
Its not easy but if you present Turkish as a secular carrier (Ataturk legacy all the way in service etc) and keep the costs down I see Turkish as bigger than BA in 7 years time...
There will be many obstacles, (political for example) but Turkish is one of the airlines to watch for the future. They have the opportunities the questions is if they are capable of taking them.
Turkey also have the knowhow and the technical knowledge to handle a world airline. That makes Turkish position easier.
Already they are targeting their VFR areas with great fares. Germany, Benelux, swiss/austria and Scandinavia offers tons of potential for them
As long as they understand that they have to present themselves and Istanbul as competitive advantage.
Meaning Istanbul has to improve customer service and smoothness to Bangkok levels. Then Turkish will be a force to reckon with and I reckon Star has made a steal luring Turkish...
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care. Millwall against the world!
Jfk777 From United States, joined Aug 2006, 3353 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5144 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 15): The step from A343 to 77W is not much smaller than from 77W to A380s.
The steps from an A343 to a 77W are about 70 seats, from a 77W to an A380 is 200 seats. TK is better with double daily flights to destinations that would be flown with an A380.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 8537 posts, RR: 34 Reply 18, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5106 times:
Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9): As for TK purchasing A380s - that's got to be a typo. Look at the context; nobody is pitching the Routemaster against the Screamliner. A350 vs B787, now that I'll belive in, and I'll wager 1 dinar that the order will go in the direction of Toulouse.
My thoughts exactly; it must be a typo; the 787 -v- A350 competition has been in the works for a long time. I thought that TK's CEO specifically ruled out a 380 order for the foreseeable future.
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 12): I am not sure what to think about the recent A330 order. I believe it may be to add to the fleet near term, and replace the current A330 frames once 787s come in (should they order them) and allow the new order 330s a few more years of operation.
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Don't forget that some of the A340s are coming up to 16/17 years old now and are regularly used on high density European route; even Dublin has seen A330s and A340s!
What surprised me is that they've switched to RR for the new A330 order.
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?" "Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world".
TK doesnt need the A 380 to operate to ANY of its existing routes...not now...not even in 10 years time.
Their routes to northwestern Europe do very well, with A340's flying to AMS, sometimes twice a day. Especially during holidays, Turkish and RAM use heavies into AMS, so an A380 shouldn't be difficult to fill then.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 6795 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5056 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 17): The steps from an A343 to a 77W are about 70 seats, from a 77W to an A380 is 200 seats.
In size proportion thats not much difference, as I said.
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 17): TK is better with double daily flights to destinations that would be flown with an A380.
Why would that be? Because its "wiser" to operate two aircraft, pay two crews and double the number of pilots instead operating the more fuel efficient AND more comfortable AND more passenger-appealing A380?
B777LRF From Bahrain, joined Nov 2008, 106 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4815 times:
Be that as it may NA, I still don't seem them buying the Routemaster in either the near or semi-distant future. The problem what the big girl is that there's few routes she can be profitably utilised on, whereas your common or garden variety wide-body can potter IST-AMS one day, and bimble across the atlantic the next, with a reasonable expectation of earning a few Yeni Lira's in the process.
Buying the Routemaster for VFR traffic IST-Northern Europe does not sound like a plausible idea to me, much as I'd enjoy taking advantage of such an offering.
I'd say it again - it's a typo. The battle is between the A350 and B787, or as a less kind soul might put it, between two widebodied twin engined ETOPS bores. My money's on Airbus to raise the Raki glasses, for a number of obvious reasons, not least of which is the alarming fact that Boeing seemingly can't find a way to stop digging the hole they're in, or even offer a plausible alternative to the bigger A350 variant (re-winging of existing offering, hang some new noise makers under same, now where have I heard that idea before ..... )
FRNT787 From United States, joined Sep 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4711 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 18): Doesn't surprise me in the least. Don't forget that some of the A340s are coming up to 16/17 years old now and are regularly used on high density European route; even Dublin has seen A330s and A340s!
What surprised me is that they've switched to RR for the new A330 order.
The order for them doesnt suprise me (sorry about the poor wording in my original post). What I wonder about though is what their eventual long term plan is. If the article is correct, (and I cant comment about typos, context, etc, because the article is not in english) then the 787 will likely have a place in the future fleet. So I wonder how long the A330 would fly alongside it (I guess similar to the original Northwest Airlines plan).
If the article meant to say A350, then I could still see the 787 as part of the fleet, especially the -9 model. Recent orders and commitments for the 77W totaling 12(?) orders, indicates the A350-1000 will NOT be required so this comes down to the A350-800/900 or the 787-9. Either way, they will requrie multiple families in their long haul fleet IMO.
Fcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4690 times:
Is there enough space at IST for A380's? It is already very cramped and the taxiways don't look wide enough without significant work which would probably involve losing a lot of other stands.
GBan From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 637 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9): As for TK purchasing A380s - that's got to be a typo. Look at the context; nobody is pitching the Routemaster against the Screamliner. A350 vs B787, now that I'll belive in, and I'll wager 1 dinar that the order will go in the direction of Toulouse.
The article says that they are examining offers for the "Boeing Dreamliner 787" and the "Airbus-Superjumbo A380" and that they will take a decision soon. It does not say or imply that the decision is between those two, and it does not mention the A350.
I don't know if more than one a380's would fit to IST but an a380 already landed on IST with no problem at all.
26 GeorgiaAME: Months ago, someone posted about the possibility of 1000 787 sales before the first flight. At the time, it looked vaguely possible, albeit highly unl
27 BrianDromey: And *A membership can not hurt either. It certainly adds me as a potential customer, Im sure there are others. It also adds an element of 'trust' abo
28 OA260: My top two for longhaul would be TK and LX due to their Star Membership and also the benefits/Miles etc...
29 Moek2000: That's what I was thinking...I don't know the range, but I think PER and ADL are doable... IST is a great location for a worldwide hub and there's de
30 Shankly: Bit of a throw away line that. TK certainly are not BA (T5 at IST?, website as good as BA?) On its day Club World can still be very, very good. If TK
31 TurkishSky: fyi, we are back to turkish lira now (TL)
32 KC135TopBoom: I also think this is a typo and TY is really looking at the B-787 and A-350. Looking at the B-787 and A-380 sounds like decisions have already been ma
33 NCB: A380 to North America and Far East could be very interesting. They could fly to Australia with a 600 pax configuration. Forget about the B787/B777, it
34 PM: I'm stunned to hear you say that. I had my first two TK flights last October (FRA-IST-FRA) and they were shocking. On the first flight (on a new A321
35 Jfk777: Operating a SUPER JUMBO Jet for national prestige is an ego thing that doesn't work most of teh time. Crews on planes are proportional, FA per 100 pa
36 FRNT787: And they are buying more according to the very same press release saying they are buying new A330s. They mentioned 7 77Ws, so either they are orderin
38 NCB: We will know alot more if one of our Turkish friends could translate the following press release: Geniş gövde filosu için 7 adet Airbus 330, 7 ade
39 TK787: Here it is from the English site of TK: 19.06.2009 Incorporation previously announced that the manufacturers Boeing and Airbus are invited to give pr
40 THEENGINEER: I personally don't think TK will ever need the A380 but the current management is ordering every plane that is available in the market, so I wouldn't
41 FCKC: As some people wrote , i guess A380 is a typo .Probably this is the A350 concerned here. Having bought some more A330s at the show last month , the ob
42 PlaneHunter: It simply depends on the specific market. As I have said so many times before - like other users - the SQ CDG operations are not necessarily comparab
43 Aviationbuff: I also thought the same when I read the heading. and/or ....there is no comparison between A380 and 787 so how can it be "OR". This might be a typo o
44 NA: I admit that I was surprised to read that TK could order A380s. I honestly dont know their operations so have no idea of their future potential or pl
45 Danfearn77: Because it gives the passenger a choice. Thats why in some cases its wise for an airline to do say 3 daily on a 773 for example, than 2 daily on an A
46 NA: Could be in some cases. But as the other current thread about the in-service experiences with the A380 indicates, the opposite is happening as a fact
47 PlaneHunter: Yes - and not only that. Numerous airlines are only able to offer several daily departures on a route because those are linked with dozens of connect
48 Danfearn77: And potentially loose custom when those passengers fly again. And i would have to agree to a certain extent. I for one made sure my flight SIN-LHR wa
49 Babybus: I'm really sorry to say this but TK will never own a A380. It's the wrong aircraft with the wrong airline. I can imagine them owning a small fleet of
50 KC135TopBoom: As well as how often he is right about any airplane comparison.
51 FRNT787: Boeing continuously said the 787 would be 20% more efficient than "current models" i.e. 767/A330. That hasnt quite happened yet, and I am inclined to
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