TANS From Czech Republic, joined May 2005, 132 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12029 times:
As part of an “acceleration of its 2009 Action Plan” CSA Czech Airlines will terminate its flights to New York at the start of the 2009/2010 winter flight schedule. JFK-PRG will now only be served by Delta, who started the route on June 18, 2009. The seasonal summer Toronto route will also presumably be dropped.
The two remaining CSA Airbus A310s will only be used for charter flights and the number of flights on certain European routes will apparently also be reduced.
On a separate note, the date on which binding privatisation offers for a majority stake in CSA have to be presented to the Czech government has been moved from July 13 to September 15. The two remaining bidders, Czech Unimex Group and Air France KLM, are thus to be given more time to finalise their offers and consider their options.
Personally, I am quite glad the completely unsuitable A310s will stop tarnishing CSA’s reputation on some of its most exposed routes. A casual read through OK’s online reviews (yes, I know how ‘reliable’ they are, but still) reveals that most of the negative ones are related to the PRG-JFK flights on these birds. Although I love to see CSA metal in JFK or YYZ, given the current situation I think it is better to let these routes go and, perhaps one day, return to them with some newer birds!
OB1504 From United States, joined Jul 2004, 2279 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11619 times:
Quoting TANS (Thread starter): The two remaining CSA Airbus A310s will only be used for charter flights and the number of flights on certain European routes will apparently also be reduced.
What happened to the third A310? Does OK still plan on launching a weekly PRG-MIA charter?
Seemyseems From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2009, 780 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11608 times:
Well at least PRG has DL serving a direct JFK route, also good to see AF-KL still in the running for a CSA take over.
BMIFlyer From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2004, 8170 posts, RR: 71 Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11517 times:
Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 3): Well at least PRG has DL serving a direct JFK route
ATL is daily, and JFK 3 (or 4) times per week, I think.
Commavia From United States, joined Apr 2005, 6775 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11463 times:
Sad, but it makes sense.
Eastern Europe - dependant for so much of its recent economic development and growth on the now-evaporated lose global credit - has been severely impacted on the global recession.
Czech has to do what they have to do, so this is understandable, especially considering that their customers will still have network access to JFK nonstop with Delta.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 25728 posts, RR: 76 Reply 7, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11318 times:
Quoting Jano (Reply 4): Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 3):
Well at least PRG has DL serving a direct JFK route
plus Atlanta....
Atlanta-Prague ends after the summer, and while its supposed to resume next summer, rumor is a lot of these "seasonal suspensions" are turning permanent.
Jano From Slovak Republic, joined Jan 2004, 775 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11203 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7): Atlanta-Prague ends after the summer, and while its supposed to resume next summer, rumor is a lot of these "seasonal suspensions" are turning permanent.
Oops. Now that I was getting ready to do 3 jumps only, TYS-ATL-PRG-ILZ, they cancel ATL-PRG on me.... OK, I guess I keep doing those 4 jumps TYS-DTW-AMS or FRA-PRG-ILZ
TANS From Czech Republic, joined May 2005, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11111 times:
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 2): What happened to the third A310? Does OK still plan on launching a weekly PRG-MIA charter?
OK-WAB and OK-WAA were both sold and flown to Kyrgyzstan and, from what I understand, are now with Kyrgyz Trans Avia. The former should currently be flying for Mahan Air in Iran as EX-35003 on a lease.
OK-YAC and OK-YAD are being kept in the fleet and will only fly charters. I am pretty sure the charters to Miami have been forgotten nearly as quickly as they were conceived.
Krisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1098 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11015 times:
I've been waiting for this for a while. I'm surprised that OK continued to operate its long-hauls for this long. OK was facing the same problem as MA with its TATL operations, that is a need for long-haul fleet renwal and inconsistant yeidls.
IF KL/AF buys OK, I strongly doubt that OK would resume TATLs as it would make much more sense just to feed pax to AMS or CDG.
Lot767sp-lpa From Poland, joined May 2002, 128 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10917 times:
Quoting Krisyyz (Reply 10):
Will LO cancel or seriously reduce it long-hauls?
LO has plans to expand network to one more city in North America next summer, and add another 763 SP-LPH to their fleet. So if it come true, LO will be the only one airline from Eastern Europe to connect EE with USA and Canada scheduled after CSA, Malev, Tarom disappear from this market.
But I have to tell that this is sad that CSA had to suspend those operations due to economics situation. Hope they come back one day.
Seemyseems From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2009, 780 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10773 times:
Cschleic From United States, joined Feb 2002, 618 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10460 times:
Unfortunately PRG - ATL isn't daily. I was on DL's PRG - JFK flight two days ago and the timing made for a really long layover at JFK before heading to the west coast. The flight was packed, and it seemed like many passengers came from other cities (Moscow?) and connected in PRG for the flight to JFK. ATL would have been better.
Anyone know what percentage of passengers are O&D vs. connecting?
The irony of the information age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion.
Seemyseems From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2009, 780 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10294 times:
Quoting Luckyone (Reply 14): It is a 767-300ER. I will be on the flight August 24. Look for a TR to follow
Cool!
Its good that DL serve PRG, its good business for Prague and OK.
AF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9970 times:
Quoting Lot767sp-lpa (Reply 11): So if it come true, LO will be the only one airline from Eastern Europe to connect EE with USA and Canada scheduled after CSA, Malev, Tarom disappear from this market.
Isn't Aerosvit still in this market? Aren't they considered Eastern Europe? And Aeroflot?
Eastern Europe - dependant for so much of its recent economic development and growth on the now-evaporated lose global credit - has been severely impacted on the global recession.
That is part of the story, as turism is still strong into PRG at least during the summer. Another point is that they are getting ready for the future change of ownership - reducing cost and getting rid of uprofitable routes. If AF-KLM is the new owner CSA will depend on intercontinental flights via AMS or CDG.
CSA is also code sharing with DL - so it makes sense to for them to offer a better product with someone else.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 10659 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9676 times:
Quoting AF022 (Reply 18): Quoting Lot767sp-lpa (Reply 11):
So if it come true, LO will be the only one airline from Eastern Europe to connect EE with USA and Canada scheduled after CSA, Malev, Tarom disappear from this market.
Isn't Aerosvit still in this market? Aren't they considered Eastern Europe? And Aeroflot?
Yes both carriers still operate transatlantic services, Aerosvit from KBP to JFK/YYZ/YUL, and Aeroflot to JFK/IAD/LAX.
Transaero (UN) also operates DME-YYZ twice a week, one nonstop and one via YUL.
Uzbekistan Airways (HY) also operates once a week RIX (Riga, Latvia) - JFK with 5th freedom local traffic rights on a flight originating at Tashkent (TAS).
Seemyseems From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2009, 780 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9641 times:
Quoting Lot767sp-lpa (Reply 11): LO has plans to expand network to one more city in North America next summer, and add another 763 SP-LPH to their fleet. So if it come true, LO will be the only one airline from Eastern Europe to connect EE with USA and Canada scheduled after CSA, Malev, Tarom disappear from this market.
But I have to tell that this is sad that CSA had to suspend those operations due to economics situation. Hope they come back one day.
Aerosvit has JFK & YYZ using B767. Its good to see LO expanding in North America, I really like their B763's. Any idea what the new destination will be?
EXAAUADL From United States, joined Jun 2006, 4083 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9573 times:
I never understood why they had a fleet of only 3 aircraft. It must have been very expensive on training and MX and parts. I thought a long time ago that both Malev and OK should drop their long haul intercontinental flights
Usdcaguy From United States, joined Jan 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6461 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7): Atlanta-Prague ends after the summer, and while its supposed to resume next summer, rumor is a lot of these "seasonal suspensions" are turning permanent.
This would not be surprising and is at best a disappointing reality. Hopefully, DL and OK have already discussed the potential benefits of filtering passengers over PRG. The question is, will DL/KL/AF be able to use PRG as a connecting hub if so many destinations are already available via ATL/JFK on DL and via AMS/CDG on AF/KL? With the cuts that DL has made thus far and the glut of capacity that will still be in the Transatlantic market, it would not surprise me if PRG lost its nonstops to JFK altogether.
I doubt it. They [CSA] "missed the train" maybe a decade ago and I don't think it's ever coming back. Maybe if the "Visegrád 4" (Poland, Czech Rep., Hungary and Slovakia) pooled resources together at that time when alliance memberhips were in their infancy and formed some sort of Central European version of SAS the chances of survival might be better, but now the development seems to be heading towards three major clusters of major airlines to dominate Europe and the small ones are destined to be hub-feeders.
Babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2182 posts, RR: 5 Reply 25, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6148 times:
I find it impossible to believe that OK can't fill even one small A310 flight a day out of JFK.
Even if it was every other day they should have tried to maintain it. I think it reflects badly on Czech Republic that they believe no one needs to leave the country and no one is interested in coming.
A long haul replacement aircraft should not have been left so long. They should have had A330s a long time ago.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
26 L410Turbolet: "Fill" and "make profit" are two completely different things... as discussed ad nauseum here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation
27 Styles9002: Slightly off-topic, but aren't the Czech Republic and Poland in central Europe?
28 Cubsrule: LO has a couple of things going for it, though. They have a somewhat larger l/h fleet, which helps tremendously with the fixed costs (each 763 need o
29 EXAAUADL: I dont think that is the issue. The issue is a fleet of 3 aircraft is very inflexible and very expensive on a per aircraft basis. Plus the A310 isnt
30 Rafaelyyz: There is recent speculation that Canada will re-introduce visa requirements for Czech citizens. "Canada will reimpose visa requirements on citizens of
31 Rafaelyyz: ...or presumed cancellation...that's assuming they'll cancel it.
32 TANS: Nope. CSA operated the route while visas were in place in the past – this is a purely economical decision.
33 Slz396: It is quite common to refer to the new EU states Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary etc as eastern Europe, although the governments of these states can'
34 Cubsrule: On which longhaul routes is LO losing money?
35 MaverickM11: ATLPRG and JFKPRG on two carriers was about 3x too much capacity. It was a given when JFKPRG started two of the three would have to go away. It makes
36 Rafaelyyz: Which half? Chicago, New York, Toronto, are all mainstays and won't go any time soon. There are heavy Polish populations in these cities and even if
37 Flylot: these facts are a year or two old, but I believe flights all transatlantic flights to and from Krakow, Rzeszow, and Chicago are the only ones that tu
38 MillwallSean: Worth it and profitable is two very different things. The Czechs are rational and looks at the bottomline. Those flights doesn't make financial sense
39 LAXintl: It was posted here in April in a thread about OK's privatization, however in a February 2009 interview Radomir Lasak the CEO of CSA said the following
40 Cubsrule: That's more than half of their TATL network!
41 Tharanga: This is an interesting idea. Could a SAS-like consortium have allowed these regions to maintain a local long-haul carrier? It's not just Eastern Euro
42 WROORD: First of all I do not think that any of the central and east european countries are disadvantaged because of location, rather they are disadvantaged
43 Slz396: NO??? Have you never looked at the map of the world then? Eastern carriers have for political reasons always been obsessed with flying to the USA eve
44 L410Turbolet: Obsessed? Had they been obsessed they would be keeping the routes alive at all cost which I don't think is happening. Certainly not as "obsessed" as
45 Slz396: You're really overestimating the meaning of any of those Eastern Europe - USA flights to me or in fact anybody in Westers Europe, my friend, but its
46 WA707atMSP: The A310, the 767, and the 757 entered service within a few months of one another in 1982 / 83. The 767 and 757 are still quite common, but the A310 h
47 Konrad: Slz396, I don't see any airline in Eastern Europe being "obsessed" with flying to the US. LOT and CSA have been flying there since 70s with Il-62s bec
48 Viscount724: When Canada imposed the old visa requirement, the Czech Republic reciprocated and imposed a visa requirement on Canadians visiting the Czech Republic
49 WROORD: With all due respect according to geography I had at school Europe ends with Ural Mts in Russia, thus Poland and Czech Republic is really in Central
50 Luckyone: I think they're using Eastern Europe is the political sense rather than the geographical sense. Frequently when one hears "Eastern Europe" most peopl
51 Delta777jet: The difference between Malev and LOT is simply that Malev is now privatized and the investors dont want to serve routes because they were served since
52 PRGLY: We here in Central Europe somehow do not want to be called Eastern Europe, because then we feel like beeing considered same as Russia, what we really
53 Seemyseems: OA still flies JNB, JFK, YUL and YYZ. Either way, as these airline pull these TATL routes, at least they have carriers like DL to serve the routes.
54 LAXintl: Eastern Europe is largely synonymously with Eastern Bloc, or those countries behind the iron curtain. Even the United Nations defines geographic divi
55 Rafaelyyz: I think the "political reasons" argument is a little overdrawn especially in LOT's case. The Polish diaspora is huge in North America and I'm sure wi
56 Uzzzer: That is exactly the reason, why many Ukrainian aviation pundits are arguing for the lack of Open Skies agreement that allows local operators to matur
57 MarcinGDN: LO was doing really well across the pond.. I believe that with the 787 they would have turned a profit.. yes a very good point... LO doesn't pay atten
58 WROORD: I think you are correct, a big portion of the profit is cargo. I think LO loss for long haul flight is partially due to a negative code-share agreeme
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