AirmaleJUM From United States, joined May 2009, 40 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11727 times:
Does anyone remember crazy short flights that were widebodies! United and Delta come to mind when they used jumbos on short routes. United used a DC-10 from DEN-OMA and from ORD-CLE in the 1990s. Delta was flying MD-11s on DFW-ATL in 2003. They also used Tristars on many MCO and FLL flights from ATL. Delta had flight 227 ATL-DFW-SLC it was a Tristar for a long time then changed to a 757 then a 727. Those were the days. DFW-MCO would go back and forth between 1011s 767-200s and 300s and 757s. Even ATL-CVG had 767s and Tristars on it. DL16 HNL-DFW-ATL and DL17 ATL-DFW-HNL. If I remember the flights right, DFW-ATL had about 12-15 flights a day.
KYAir From United States, joined Jan 2004, 361 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11650 times:
Capacity and frequency - nirvana!
I remember lots of L1011s while spotting at CVG in the 90's. I loved seeing DL landing lights stretching out for miles on approach and trying to guess types. In those days, many of them were heavies. Ahhhhhh....
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
Type-Rated From United States, joined Sep 1999, 2270 posts, RR: 28 Reply 4, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11535 times:
Arond 1970 when the 747 began service it seemed it was a prestige thing with the airlines to have them. NW ran quite a few between ORD-MSP per day. They also had a huge artists conception of a NW 747 behind the ticket counter at MSP.
DL, TW,AA, BN all had the 747 for awhile. DL discovered that the -100 series was not very economical and got rid of them pretty quick. A few others did the same as well.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
Delta763 From United States, joined May 2008, 193 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11377 times:
I remember when LGA used to be packed with DC-10s. I'd see them constantly flying over my old home in Yonkers. Now I don't think even 767s go there anymore. I think DL pulled theirs out shortly after I went back there in 2005.
Wasn't it one of AA's original DC-10 requirements the ability to fly in and out of LGA?
We also saw such great aircraft as the L10 on the route, the 772, the 764, and others.
Quoting Delta763 (Reply 7): Wasn't it one of AA's original DC-10 requirements the ability to fly in and out of LGA?
Well, actually, it's was AA's request for an aircraft that was both big and capable of doing LGA that led to the development of BOTH the DC-10 and the L-1011. Thus, both airplanes had to be very similar, as they were both targeted at a very specific requirement.
For unto us a Child is born- unto us a Son is given!
TravelExec From Spain, joined Dec 2007, 367 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11187 times:
Believe it or not, JL still flies B747-300s, B747-400Ds, B767-300s, B777-200s & -300s on domestic flights for example from HND to ITM... a whole 45 minute long flight...
Some of these are 3 class aircraft with F, C & Y class, and the B777-300s are 10 abreast in Y with 500 seats (78 C, 422 Y). They get 546 pax (80 C, 466 Y) into the B747-400Ds.
I think that ANA also use jumbos on domestic flights...
MKENut From United States, joined Jul 2007, 473 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11118 times:
I don't know if this counts but NW use to fly MIA-ORD on a DC-10 then continue on to MKE. They probably picked up PAX at MKE to continue on to MSP. I'm not sure since I always got off at MKE.
N62NA From United States, joined Aug 2003, 1811 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10937 times:
Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 3): Didn't National use a DC10-10 from Miami to Tampa pre-history?
Yes. And at times, FLL-MIA too.
Quoting Delta763 (Reply 7): Wasn't it one of AA's original DC-10 requirements the ability to fly in and out of LGA?
The D10 and L10 were both designed to be able to meet the maximum weight requirements of LGA's "pier" runways - the portions of the runways built out on piers over the water.
Here's some other short widebody flights from the past:
NW D10 PHL-EWR
EA L10 BDL-JFK
AA D10 BDL-JFK
UA D10 LAX-LAS
EA AB3 LGA-BOS
AA D10 SYR-BUF
AA D10 LGA-BUF
Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14): I would have liked to fly on NWs SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-MSP (or ORD) on the DC-10 in early 80s they flew for awhile.
I think at one time or another that flight ended at EWR.
I had made a comment in my thread "The Dismal State of Flying In the USA" that perhaps the airlines were ahead of their time back in the 70s when they had all these widebodies flying domestically - and some on very short routes too. The frequency wasn't as high back then as it is today, but then again, the delays weren't nearly as commonplace or horrendous then as they are today either.
HAL From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1792 posts, RR: 50 Reply 17, posted (5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10754 times:
Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 12): National used a DC10 from SAN-LAX. I flew on it as a child in 1973... They named their palnes and one I was on was "Tammy"
After the sale of National to Pan Am, they sold that plane to AA, and re-registered it as N139AA. Unfortunately it drifted off the runway while landing in DFW in 1993, collapsed the nose and left main gear, and the plane was written off.
HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 3182 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10681 times:
I did the vast majority of my business flying in the 1980s and 1990s...when it was still fun. Lots of neat stuff. Some included DL L-1011s and EA A300s between BOS-LGA. Lots of UA DC-10s and 767s. Today, airlines don't flaunt anything but their own ineptness. It seems like they're all in a never-ending contest to fly the smallest possible plane on the longest possible route.
TAN FLYR From United States, joined Aug 2000, 1490 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10681 times:
For anumber of years TW in the 80's, TW ran an L10 DAY-IND-LAX..or once in while it would be CMH-IND-LAX. also ,as I recall there was L-10 and 767 service from STL to IND.
Also AA ran DC-10 from ORD to IND...it was usuallly the tail froma red-eye from SFO-ORD..then on to IND. It became the 10 am or so to ORD then back to California.
YXwatcherMKE From United States, joined May 2007, 215 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (5 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9865 times:
MKEnut you are oh so correct, NW did do the MIA - ORD - MKE - MSP run with DC-10's and the other way down to MIA. Even before the DC-10 entering service NW did the route with 747's I did the trip 5 times from MKE to MSP & 3 time to MIA. That was a fun time to see those planes at MKE not only did NW have the 747's and DC-10's but so did UA to DEN and EA to ATL with their L1011 for one summer that was a site to see because that was before the big change to the terminal and the "C" concourse was that metal ground level walkway to the plane.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2147 posts, RR: 3 Reply 27, posted (5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10142 times:
BA with L10 and 747 LHR-CDG
EI with 747 DUB-SNN
IT with A300 ORY-SXB , ORY-LYS , ORY-BOD , ORY-BIQ
KL with A310 SPL-CDG
BR with A310 LGW-CDG
LH with A310 , A300 , AB6 FRA-ORY , then FRA-CDG
SR with A310 GVA-CDG
Igneousrocks From United States, joined exactly 1 years ago today! , 152 posts, RR: 1 Reply 31, posted (5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8712 times:
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 23): I took that flight back in 1980. The route was PHL-IAH-SAT-LAX. That was my first trip in a A300
Actually the flight was EA #59 JFK-IAH-SAT and EA#64 SAT-IAH-JFK-BOS. Stated with L1011 in 1977 and finished with and AB3 around '84.
Of course, Eastern flew the AB3 to LAX via its 'Moonlight' hub at IAH.
I can take your igneous rocks or leave 'em. I relate primarily to micas, quartz, feldspar.
JAAlbert From United States, joined Jan 2006, 588 posts, RR: 1 Reply 34, posted (5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7848 times:
I remember in the late 80s, AA flew its new 767 from SAN to LAX. I skipped the first day of law school just so I could fly the plane and see what the 767 was all about. The flight was packed. We had a very hard landing in LAX and the ceiling shook violently.
WILCO737 From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 6141 posts, RR: 90 Reply 35, posted (5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7831 times:
Until 3 days ago LH used the A300 on short haul routes:
FRA-HAM
FRA-TXL
FRA-LHR
FRA-MUC
These routes were served on a regular bases, but I flew on the 300 from FRA to STR or to CDG as well.
and several other short routes. Back in the old days it did some long haul flights and at the end some flights to ALA and TSE.
Mayor From United States, joined Mar 2008, 4274 posts, RR: 11 Reply 36, posted (5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7577 times:
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 4): DL discovered that the -100 series was not very economical and got rid of them pretty quick. A few others did the same as well.
It wasn't that so much as the fact that DL didn't operate any routes where they were economical. Thy operated them for 7 years, not really a short time. Maybe if they had waited another two years, they could have operated them on the ATL-LGW flights when they started.
DL used to operated an ORD-ATL flight with a 747.
Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 8): Heck, DL even brought the L10 into KNOXVILLE (TYS) from ATL in the early 80s...(thanks in part to the K-ville Worlds Fair of 1982)
It was ENTIRELY because of that World's Fair.
Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 28): TW used to fly STL-ABQ with the B762 and L-1011.
TW also used to fly a Tristar STL-SLC in the 80's.
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
MCIGuy From United States, joined Mar 2006, 1779 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6232 times:
We had plenty of wide body traffic at MCI in the 70s but now that I think about it, I don't remember ever actually departing MCI on a wide body. Did DEN (Statpleton) - LAX on CO DC-10s, ATL-NAS on DL L1011s (with a return trip to MCI on a DC-8 one time)!
Cha747 From United States, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 725 posts, RR: 11 Reply 44, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5715 times:
My favorite "domestic" wide body route from 1985 HNL-OGG and back on AA's DC-10....total flight time of 15 minutes. You could even listen to ATC through the entertainment system and watch take-off and landing on the bigscreen at the front of the cabin. In the back, phones or hand-held video games were available to "rent." I played Frogger on the continuation from HNL to LAX.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
Pe@rson From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2001, 16768 posts, RR: 58 Reply 45, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5530 times:
Quoting TravelExec (Reply 10): They get 546 pax (80 C, 466 Y) into the B747-400Ds.
Entirely intentional due to demand. I wonder what effect high-speed trains are having on demand for air travel between some key Japanese cities; for example, Tokyo-Osaka is a quick trip by train nowadays.
EK, QR, etc, use widebody on very short sectors; for example, I flew QR 333 DOH-DXB and 77W DXB-DOH, both around 40 mins. Of course, EK has no aircraft smaller than the 332; its shortest sector is DXB-MCT. SV operates 772s/sometimes older 747s on RUH-JED, etc. BG uses 310s/D10s on DAC-CGP, which has a 40-min block. SQ uses 772s on SIN-KUL, which take around 35 mins. Lots more examples...
JBirdAV8r From United States, joined Jun 2001, 3083 posts, RR: 21 Reply 46, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5540 times:
Back in the REALLY good days DL flew a daily L10 or two ATL-TYS...man, I wish those days were still here...
Edit: whoops, see I was beaten to the punch on that one...sorry! They also flew the Stretch 8's in fairly regularly...
As for me, I was fortunate enough to do the L10 and 764 ATL-DFW, as well as the AA 772 ORD-DFW, and just missed an M11 DFW-ATL (cancelled due to mx, of course)...but in its stead they put us on a 763 DFW-CVG!
I wish I hadn't taken for granted how great the 762s and 763s were when I was flying ATL-JAX a good bit, either.
The only reason that existed is because up until recently, there was a mandatory stop requirement. Any flight to (and/or?) from Dublin was required to stop in Shannon.
Back in the days of props, the aircraft didn't have the range to make it nonstop across the Atlantic and Shannon was used as a refueling stop. If I remember right, the Irish government was concerned that, with the advent of jets that could do the flights nonstop, it would kill the need to stop in Shannon and hurt a great part of the local economy. So, they created the mandatory stop over.
You can bet the Dublin-Shannon route never would have seen anything larger than a 737 or a BAC 1-11 if not for the stop requirement.
Brian
Next trip: 11/30-12/07 - GTF-MSP-AMS-ACC-AMS-MSP-GTF
_AA_777_MAN From United States, joined Oct 2000, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5456 times:
DL operated regularly scheduled daily ATL-ORD with the L1011 it always parked at L10 at ORD. I remember summer or winter it would always have smokey engine starts. I think 2001 was the last year for that flight, but since then ORD has had DL 762 763 764 and M11 I dont recall seeing the 772 but im pretty sure it never came to ORD on a scheduled flight.
Drerx7 From United States, joined Jun 2000, 3229 posts, RR: 8 Reply 49, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5411 times:
Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 48): 764 and M11 I dont recall seeing the 772 but im pretty sure it never came to ORD on a scheduled flight.
When were 764s and M11s ever on the ORD schedules? I remember the L10 and I flew in on a 762 once from ATL and the return was swapped with a 763 - and this was back in '94ish.
_AA_777_MAN From United States, joined Oct 2000, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5326 times:
I never said that the 764 and M11 was on scheduled service I just said that we have had them there on scheduled flight numbers from ATL whether they were subs or not. I know the L10 762 763 were on the regular schedules. But after 9/11 they started disappearing from ORD.
Rampart From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1700 posts, RR: 11 Reply 52, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5122 times:
There are plenty of examples of short tag-on flights. UA did one, for example, from DEN-COS-DEN on a DC-10, early 90's IIRC. It overnighted in COS. I don' think this was as much to "flaunt" a widebody as it was to park it somewhere not so busy and have it positioned correctly for a morning return flight, while taking a few passengers along for the ride.
Nomadic From United States, joined Apr 2004, 293 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5094 times:
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 4): Arond 1970 when the 747 began service it seemed it was a prestige thing with the airlines to have them. NW ran quite a few between ORD-MSP per day. They also had a huge artists conception of a NW 747 behind the ticket counter at MSP.
My first flight on a 747 was in the spring of 1970 on TWA from New York/JFK to Chicago. My father worked for the airline and we flew to Chicago for the day just to experience the new jet. Returning that afternoon on a 727 was a definate let down.
Atlanta From United States, joined Jun 2008, 471 posts, RR: 1 Reply 54, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5052 times:
Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 51): I've done a few Delta L1011 trips between ATL and TPA - not that long ago either (1999). Those were the days....
I flew many 767 flights on that route!!!
I remember when the Eastern Shuttle used to be great to catch a widebody on a short route! I also remember when Delta had the FRA hub and being able to go basically anywhere on the east coast from FRA on DL.
Atlanta
Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
Type-Rated From United States, joined Sep 1999, 2270 posts, RR: 28 Reply 55, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5041 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 36): It wasn't that so much as the fact that DL didn't operate any routes where they were economical.
I always thought that DL bought the 747 to use on the ATL-DAL-LAX route, which seemed to be their most prestigious route at the time. I don't remember exactly, but didn't they later extend that route to HNL? A transcon with one stop seems like it should be economical for them, but with the -100 series I don't know.
Quoting Nomadic (Reply 53):
My first flight on a 747 was in the spring of 1970 on TWA from New York/JFK to Chicago. My father worked for the airline and we flew to Chicago for the day just to experience the new jet. Returning that afternoon on a 727 was a definate let down.
In July of 1970 I took the same trip. Ah, flying in a 747 back then when service was great was really the way to go. We flew tORD-EWR on an AA 707 first. And that was even nice!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
Mayor From United States, joined Mar 2008, 4274 posts, RR: 11 Reply 56, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4927 times:
Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 49): When were 764s and M11s ever on the ORD schedules? I remember the L10 and I flew in on a 762 once from ATL and the return was swapped with a 763 - and this was back in '94ish.
DL had DC-10s on the SLC-ORD route, right after the WA merger. They were only on that particular route for a few months.
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 55): I always thought that DL bought the 747 to use on the ATL-DAL-LAX route, which seemed to be their most prestigious route at the time. I don't remember exactly, but didn't they later extend that route to HNL? A transcon with one stop seems like it should be economical for them, but with the -100 series I don't know.
IIRC, DL didn't have a LAX-HNL route until the WA merger and by then, the 747s were long gone.
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
Mayor From United States, joined Mar 2008, 4274 posts, RR: 11 Reply 58, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4556 times:
Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 48): DL operated regularly scheduled daily ATL-ORD with the L1011 it always parked at L10 at ORD. I remember summer or winter it would always have smokey engine starts. I think 2001 was the last year for that flight, but since then ORD has had DL 762 763 764 and M11 I dont recall seeing the 772 but im pretty sure it never came to ORD on a scheduled flight.
The Tristars, DC-10s and 747s also used to park at H11A/B before DL moved into L concourse.
Are you sure there was a DL MD-11 at ORD? Since they weren't being used for anything but int'l. service, I wonder why it would be there? Maybe a tag on to an ATL TATL flight?
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
_AA_777_MAN From United States, joined Oct 2000, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 61, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4310 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 58): Are you sure there was a DL MD-11 at ORD?
I know it was there at least once early 2000's, the 764 maybe at least twice. Again the M11 and 764 were never scheduled but it was still nice to see them there once in a while. Now we get excited if we see a DL 763 back at ORD.
Aces727 From Colombia, joined Oct 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0 Reply 64, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4121 times:
Today AV operates the A330 between BOG and CLO (35 minute flight) as part of the BOG-CLO-MAD flight. In 2005 RG operated the 777 between GRU and GIG (40 min flight). Also OZ 763 between MEL and SYD. I believe KE still operates the 747 on mulitiple dailies bet ICN and HKG.
ItalianFlyer From United States, joined Nov 2007, 552 posts, RR: 0 Reply 65, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4109 times:
Looking at the 3-1-1973 DL timetable on departedflights, i see that they flew the 747 from ATL to DTW and DC10 from BOS-PHL-MIA, BOS-LGA and LGA-MSY-IAH.
Sspontak From United States, joined Aug 2004, 445 posts, RR: 3 Reply 68, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3618 times:
I remember being on a TWA BOS to JFK flight operated by a 747. The flight was about 1/2 full and the FA actually were able to complete the beverage service. I believe this flight was in the mid 1980's.
AVLAirlineFreq From United States, joined Jun 2008, 171 posts, RR: 0 Reply 69, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3393 times:
AA operated DC-10s between BNA and DFW for a while in the late 80s/early 90s Nashville hub days. As mentioned above, they did the same between RDU and DFW and ORD.
It was not that long ago that DL (and EA when they were around) regularly operated heavy equipment into numerous Florida markets. I was on a 767 from JAX to ATL within the last 12 months.
Danielb From Canada, joined May 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3347 times:
I can remember when AC used to bring their 762's from YYZ / YUL to YEG direct. That is very seldom now as you're lucky to even get an A321. Normally it's an 319/320/ERJ190.
On another topic.....forgive me if this hasnt already been said, but I thought that UA operated their 744's from LAX-JFK ??? Is that right?? I'm just going by hearsay that thet ran a 744 from "LA" to "NY". If they did, do they still?? Somebody help me here.
Mayor From United States, joined Mar 2008, 4274 posts, RR: 11 Reply 73, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3238 times:
Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 71): In the 80's and early90;s they ran an L1011 on a morning flight from SLC-DEN. (I think it went on to JFK from there)
Well, you could be right. The only reason I remember is that they had a container loader on station, there in SLC and we borrowed it once (pre DL/WA merger) when we had a Tristar equipment substitution for a 727 (ski group) out of ATL. As it was, we didn't need the loader because ATL forgot (or ignored us) that we told them that we were all set up for LD-3s. The a/c came in, we opened the bin doors and it was all bulk loaded with bags.....not a single container in sight.
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
MogandoCI From United States, joined Jun 2009, 217 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3204 times:
Quoting TravelExec (Reply 10): Believe it or not, JL still flies B747-300s, B747-400Ds, B767-300s, B777-200s & -300s on domestic flights for example from HND to ITM... a whole 45 minute long flight...
Sorry for splitting hairs, but I believe ITM has instituted a 4-hauler ban (IIRC, due to noise), so no more 744Ds.
AC continues to fly their transcon trunk routes with some widebodies (YYZ, YVR, YUL), and if you're lucky, you can catch that 77W or 77L between Toronto and Vancouver which heads out to NRT and SYD respectively
I can't imagine how chaotic the airspace in Japan would be if they fly 15-minute frequencies between Tokyo and Sapporo using E-jets......thank goodness for sensible slot-controlling policies (which we lack here in US due to all those obsessed with lasseiz-faire and infinite frequencies for the businessmen)
ConvairNut From United States, joined Sep 2008, 27 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3171 times:
Well I know it has nothing to do with widebodies but regarding short hops.....does anyone remember when TWA used fly from Oakland to San Francisco? I got to make the hop in 1975...they didn't even raise the landing gear!
AADC10 From United States, joined Nov 2004, 959 posts, RR: 1 Reply 76, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3173 times:
The airlines touted their widebody domestic service back in the days of regulation. Because of limits on flights, widebodies were a way of increasing capacity since they could not add flights like they do now. In addition, some of the widebody flights into smaller cities were similar to international repositioning flights now: they increased aircraft utilization by using it on a short flight rather than sitting in a big city waiting for the next flight.
Since fares and routes were determined by the CAB the airlines competed mostly on service. Widebodies were touted as more comfortable (and they usually were) than narrowbodies and had much wider seats and pitch than they do now.
Deregulation killed the domestic widebodies. They slowly faded away after deregulation until now there are only a handful of widebody domestic flights. There was a brief golden age after the introduction of widebody aircraft and before the oil embargo when some widebodies had lounge areas even in coach. Even through the 70s and into the early 80s flying was a far better experience than now.
EDICHC From New Zealand, joined Nov 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 4 Reply 79, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3020 times:
1988 on my first visit to the USA I flew MIA-MCO on an Eastern A300, the return was on a 727. Strangely those two flights were my only ones on those types.
Golftango From United States, joined Feb 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2943 times:
Throughout the late 80s I was on several UA DC10 legs between BOS and ORD. I was also on several People Express 742 trips between LAX and EWR. Not that it is a short leg, but for a 742 it is.
As late as 1994 I took a DL L1011 from MCO to ATL (actually it was the same day as US Flight 427).
But my most memorial trips were from MIA to FPO and BDL to BOS on a PA 722. Talk about quick flights!
Mayor From United States, joined Mar 2008, 4274 posts, RR: 11 Reply 81, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
Quoting Golftango (Reply 80): As late as 1994 I took a DL L1011 from MCO to ATL (actually it was the same day as US Flight 427).
There were some DL schedules where EVERY flight ATL-MCO-ATL was a widebody.
I remember coming back from MCO in the early 90's and we got to the airport and the morning Tristar to ATL had been cancelled because of a mechanical delay. The flight we were listed for had a school group on it besides the pax from the cancelled flight. That flight left, without us, but when they fixed the first Tristar, they made it an extra section to ATL and took all of us, mostly non-revs.
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
DCA-ROCguy From United States, joined Apr 2000, 3844 posts, RR: 53 Reply 83, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2884 times:
Another favorite A.net chestnut, along with the NW DC-9's and the wisdom-or-lack-thereof of Deregulation. But it's so much fun to talk about those happy days when airlines flew large a/c into medium-and-smaller markets, and on short hauls. It didn't just end with Deregulation, either, as evidenced by the many post-1978 examples listed above.
My hometown, ROC, only had a brief window of scheduled passenger jumbo-jet service, from 1972 to 1973. AA flew DC-10's--four daily--once each to LGA, ORD, CLE, and how's this for short--SYR. SYR was the last leg of an LAX-ORD-ROC-SYR run. (And you could pay $17 to fly it--fares listed in the back of the timetable!)
It's presumably more efficient and faster to just have the traveler go LAX-ORD, connect, and go ORD-ROC or ORD-SYR. And today there are more options. But it sure must have been fun for an enthusiast (I was too young and missed out) to have all those take-offs and landings in a jumbo jet that goes right to your own airport.
I've long thought that ROC got ripped off during this period. BUF and SYR both had jumbos through the 70's and BUF had them into the 80's. ROC's enplanements were typically comparable to SYR's (now have pulled decisively ahead due to bigger LCC presence and somewhat better economy). I have never been able to find any reason why either of these two markets, and others of similar size, should have held jumbos so long and ROC didn't. But we did have AA 707's until Crandall retired them all in 1981, and those were certainly great to see.
DocLightning From United States, joined Nov 2005, 7511 posts, RR: 50 Reply 84, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 74):
I can't imagine how chaotic the airspace in Japan would be if they fly 15-minute frequencies between Tokyo and Sapporo using E-jets......thank goodness for sensible slot-controlling policies (which we lack here in US due to all those obsessed with lasseiz-faire and infinite frequencies for the businessmen)
Amen, brothah! Say it! Say it loud!
Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 83): It didn't just end with Deregulation, either, as evidenced by the many post-1978 examples listed above.
Well, many widebodies stuck around, but those did so because they were there. NW had their DC-10's, so it made sense to use them. I was on many a full DTW-SFO flight on a DC-10. Now, there are 757's and A320's operating that route.
In the end, I don't care. I'm going to be jammed in a Y-class seat in a plane for 5 hours. Widebodies are not more comfortable because you are still disturbing your rowmates to allow you to get out of your seat and the waits for the lavs are longer. There is a higher probability that you will have neither an aisle nor a window. I love widebodies because they're cool, but they aren't necessarily better.
Jeffry747 From United States, joined Jun 2005, 928 posts, RR: 3 Reply 85, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2737 times:
I remember as a kid flying good ole' Pan Am back and forth between JFK and IAH on 747 aircraft. At one point my grandparents (R.I.P) flew the route on a TWA L-1011. Over the years, the airlines flying the route downsized to 727s and MD-80s. Nowadays you might be lucky to get a 737.
Oh, and if you guys wanna see plenty of widebody action, just watch the freight dogs! Especially UPS, where now the only narrowbody in the fleet is the 757. UPS sends widebodies everywhere now. MD-11s fly SDF to MEM, MCO, DFW, CLE, MCI, STL, MSP, ORD, MSP, DTW. ONT, PHL, EWR. Airbus A300 to OMA, AUS, BWI, BOS, ICT, SGF, MKE, JFK. Boeing 767 to ONT, BFI, SAN, PHL.
I'm sure FedEx has widebodies going just about everywhere to.
BMI727 From United States, joined Feb 2009, 3389 posts, RR: 1 Reply 86, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2688 times:
Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 85): Especially UPS, where now the only narrowbody in the fleet is the 757.
That is true. I like going to STL to see the MD-11 and the pair of FX MD-10s that spend the day there. Heck, even PIA gets an A300 sometimes on RFD-PIA-SDF.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
DCA-ROCguy From United States, joined Apr 2000, 3844 posts, RR: 53 Reply 87, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2647 times:
I'm sure FedEx has widebodies going just about everywhere to.
A good point to remember, because that's how many medium-size markets get widebodies today. FedEx started flying A300-600's to ROC in 2001, and we've had them darkening our skies ever since. This year, ABX started flying 762's too.
In the end, I don't care. I'm going to be jammed in a Y-class seat in a plane for 5 hours. Widebodies are not more comfortable because you are still disturbing your rowmates to allow you to get out of your seat and the waits for the lavs are longer. There is a higher probability that you will have neither an aisle nor a window. I love widebodies because they're cool, but they aren't necessarily better.
Every type of plane has its strengths and weaknesses. I've never had trouble getting a window seat on a jumbo jet, but it's probably because I usually book far enough out. I love the feel of the wider cabin, with its straighter walls and higher ceiling, and the slower-feeling, heavier takeoff and landing. Y seating doesn't bother me, so I'm happy either way.
ATAflyer From United States, joined Jul 2004, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 89, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2117 times:
In the mid-70's I wanted to fly TUS-PHX for a day of airplane watching. So I whipped out my Frontier Youth Fare Card (called the 'Cut-Out-Card') and boarded an AA DC-10 for the 30-minute trip....all of 8 passengers aboard and PHX was busy so we circled for another 30 minutes...I certainly got my money's worth on that trip! Returned in the evening on a Hughes Airwest DC-9...the perfect way to spend a day!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 10968 posts, RR: 13 Reply 90, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2069 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 84): There is a higher probability that you will have neither an aisle nor a window. I love widebodies because they're cool, but they aren't necessarily better.
You're overlooking the 767 where 6 out of 7 Y class passengers have either an aisle or window, far better than a 6-abreast narrowbody.
ElDanno From United States, joined Jun 2009, 17 posts, RR: 0 Reply 97, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1419 times:
My memory is foggy, as I was 5 at the time, but I seem to remember a widebody flight from CLE to ORD in 1984 on UA ... seems that my young mind remembered a staircase, wouldn't have been a 747SP, would it?
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 4240 posts, RR: 8 Reply 98, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1402 times:
Suprised no one has mentioned AA's intra-Texas DC-10 flights, like ELP-DFW or SAT-DFW (both of which I've flown on )...and they were operating into the early 1990's. I took my last AA DC10-10 hop on DFW-SAT in 1992 while reporting to Lackland Air Force Base
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
WA707atMSP From United States, joined Oct 2006, 1078 posts, RR: 6 Reply 99, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1252 times:
Quoting ElDanno (Reply 97): My memory is foggy, as I was 5 at the time, but I seem to remember a widebody flight from CLE to ORD in 1984 on UA ... seems that my young mind remembered a staircase, wouldn't have been a 747SP, would it?
UA did not fly 747SPs until after they purchased Pan Am's Pacific routes in 1986.
UA did fly 747-122s out of CLE regularly in the 1970s and early 1980s, to ORD, MIA, and possibly other cities.
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 96): Did IAH have BN 747 service? I thought it was all out of DFW.
Correct. I don't believe BN ever flew 747s to / from IAH on a scheduled basis. Can someone else confirm?
Ckfred From United States, joined Apr 2001, 3054 posts, RR: 2 Reply 100, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1135 times:
Up until the late 90s, DL used to fly 3 types on ORD-ATL, 757, L-1011, and 767. Now, the largest plane is a 737-800, and there are a number of RJs on the route.
Up until the early 90s, AA used to fly nothing but DC-10s and 767s out of ORD to almost every city west of the Rockies. I think the exceptions were SNA and SLC.
If you see a widebody on a short domestic route today, it's basically a repositioning flight. AA flies a 777 R/T between ORD and DFW. My understanding is that a 777 comes out of the hanger at DFW, leaves for ORD at 1pm, then it goes on to LHR.
Meanwhile, a 777 arrives at ORD from LHR, then goes on to DFW around 5:15 and into the hanger for scheduled maintenance.
Mayor From United States, joined Mar 2008, 4274 posts, RR: 11 Reply 101, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1098 times:
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 100): I think the exceptions were SNA and SLC.
The largest a/c I remember AA had as scheduled into SLC was a 727 and that was from the 80's, on.........now, I think the largest is an MD-82 (does AA have '88s?).
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
DLDTW1962 From United States, joined May 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0 Reply 102, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1061 times:
DL had a flight from DTW-DAY-ATL. Also the same time had DTW - TPA. I think it was sometime in the late 1970's. I remember flight on both flights. That is when I fell in love with
the L-1011 Tristar.
474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 3818 posts, RR: 1 Reply 103, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1033 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 92): DL also flew Tristars LAX-SFO during the 70's, IIRC. This was before we had HNL service from anywhere, so this could have only been for positioning.
LTU use to fly L-1011-500's DUS-SFO-LAX and return. Because the LTU crew was out of time upon reaching SFO the contracted a Lockheed to supply flight crews to fly the SFO-LAX/LAX-SFO legs.
EjMDWfan From United States, joined Mar 2004, 18 posts, RR: 0 Reply 104, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 948 times:
My first flight was back in 1989 on a UA 767 from ORD to MCO. The return flight was a 727. Again in the fall of 1990 back from Orlando was also a 767 on UA. I want to say it was 1994 and a DL 767 form ORD to MCO. I have only flown domestically (and numerous times to MCO) and those were the only times I was ever on a widebody.
Teva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1822 posts, RR: 22 Reply 105, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 829 times:
Quoting FCKC (Reply 27): IT with A300 ORY-SXB , ORY-LYS , ORY-BOD , ORY-BIQ
Even better than this, before the merger with AF, in the mid 90s, IT used A330 on domestic routes. (not sure, but I think it was from ORY to TLS, MRS, NCE)
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)...and they were operating into the early 1990's. I took my last AA DC10-10 hop on DFW-SAT in 1992 while reporting to Lackland Air Force Base 
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