Airevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 592 posts, RR: 3 Posted (5 months ago) and read 14060 times:
Announced today in a memo to the employees, LH will stop serving Portland, OR (PDX) effective 14 September 2009. Sad the route could not be sustained. Well, I guess the opening of Seattle didn´t help...
Flashmeister From United States, joined Apr 2000, 2572 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (5 months ago) and read 13970 times:
Kinda saw that one coming... too bad, though. It provided some of the more interesting spotting here. Guess we should get used to Q400 ... CRJ ... 737 ... Q400 ... CRJ ... 737 ...
ItalianFlyer From United States, joined Nov 2007, 542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 months ago) and read 13822 times:
Any hope of this being seasonal?
This may also speak volumes about the *A's relative weakness in the Pacific Northwest vs SkyTeam and their cozy relationship with AS. I dont know this as 'fact', I am just throwing it out there as superficial conjecture.
LAXintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12141 posts, RR: 22 Reply 5, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13747 times:
I guess this explains why LH was offering some cheaper West Coast-Europe C class seats routed via PDX. (Incidentally both SEA and DEN routings have such similar lower pricing)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 16002 posts, RR: 64 Reply 6, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13713 times:
I have been always under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that PDX used incentives to lure the service from an originally planned SEA launch - since UA was arguably stronger at the time in SEA than PDX and drew from a larger metropolitan area.
Cschleic From United States, joined Feb 2002, 621 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13556 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6): I have been always under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that PDX used incentives to lure the service from an originally planned SEA launch
Not mistaken at all. They received free landing fees or something like that for an initial period. And local businesses pledged traffic (Adidas, Freightliner, Nike, etc.). Major bummer. I've flown it four times and was very convenient, plus planes always full. This summer it's only five days/week rather than usual daily. Much nicer to fly one long route from PDX to FRA, then a short connection to wherever, rather than two or three longer flights to the same city.
The SEA - FRA route certainly can't help much. Plus they fly YVR - FRA as well as SFO and LAX. That's a lot of west coast cities.
Like said above, will reduce the spotting variety. Mexicana pulled out a while back as well. That leaves only Air Canada Jazz and some cargo carriers for the foreign airlines. With the shift from NW 330's to DL 767's to AMS and NRT, plane variety is down, too.
The irony of the information age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion.
Dellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 946 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13535 times:
The american market, among with other ones like Europe, is on a freefall since the crisis and I don't think it will recover soon.
LH service to SEA probably won't servive much longer along with MCO. The margins are smaller then ever even strong markets like JFK, ORD and LAX are getting hit. Unfortunately this is the fate of some weak routes. DL's LAX-SYD & GRU days are number for examples.
Nwaesc From United States, joined Aug 2007, 1898 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13363 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12): I disagree. We still have QX doing Canadian flights, IIRC.
...To say nothing of DL's AMS trip...
That aside, technically you're absolutely correct. However, at the risk of getting in a semantics debate, there's a big difference between a Dash 8 to YVR and a flight to FRA.
Lhpdx From United States, joined Dec 2006, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13336 times:
I really would like to thanks Lufthansa for putting little Portland on the international map, even if it was for a short amount of time...........I guess in the end with Seattle being so close, Portland truly cannot handle or support international flights long term.............Maybe they need to build a highspeed train that connects Portland to Sea/tac.....................
AirframeAS From United States, joined Feb 2004, 9973 posts, RR: 32 Reply 16, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13321 times:
Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 14): However, at the risk of getting in a semantics debate, there's a big difference between a Dash 8 to YVR and a flight to FRA.
I agree with that. I was only saying in general, however.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 16002 posts, RR: 64 Reply 20, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13205 times:
Quoting Cschleic (Reply 8): I've flown it four times and was very convenient, plus planes always full.
Yes before LH launched SEA-FRA I used to shuttle down on a UAX EMB-120 and catch the PDX-FRA flight. Was more convenient then heading to SFO or LAX (plus PDX is a nicer airport then LAX).
Indeed, if they planned to I would assume that they would have made it a seasonal cut (and then make the change permanent if the economy didn't improve).
I kind of assumed NW/DL would blink first with the AMS service, hopefully with the smaller a/c (A330 to 767) and the lack of European competition they will be able to keep that flight going.
On the subject of feed- United actually serves many more non-hub cities from PDX than SEA.
Kwbl From United States, joined Jun 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12905 times:
This is terrible news for PDX. The route had been quite successful since starting in 2003. Even after the incentives dried up. The combination of a bad Oregon economy, the DL/NW flight to AMS, and the increase in int'l service at SEA appears to be too much. PDX has demonstrated it can support flights to Europe during a normal economic cycle. Maybe the port should put anohter incentive package together to get them through this down time.
26 BigGSFO: Perhaps when the economy improves we could see BA to London? Bummer about us losing LH.
27 HAL: Each morning there's two HA 763's going to Hawaii! But yes, it's sad. I flew a UA 747 from PDX to NRT and back in June 1983, but now that's long gone
28 BlatantEcho: oh man, that's the worst aviation news out of Portland in years.... Lufti showed all the faith in the world in that route, sometimes having to upgrade
29 Lhpdx: I think the Port should have stayed with the basics..1 flight to Asia, Mexico and Europe..........Just promote and substain what we had in the beginni
30 Ramprat74: I have a feeling, there will be zero flights to Europe this winter from PDX. We get a lot of SFO connections from the FRA-PDX flight. I guess they won
31 Lexy: A market its size already has more international service than it really "should" have. The economy up there is pushing the flights but I doubt the de
32 Yegbey01: Wow....Canadians travel abroad WAAAAAY more than Americans do. YEG still sends a big chunk of its Europe (and beyond) bound pax to YYC where they con
33 MAH4546: Airports can't really operate like that. They can't stop an airline from starting a service absent lack of slots/gate space, and they have to act for
34 Ml007: Are we absolutely positive about this? I used to be an RSA for Lufty in PDX and I still have some contacts over there. I just talked to one of their m
35 N174UA: No, you're right on about that. Smaller markets need to do that in order to attract the service. Just over 6 years....not really short. First flight
36 RwSEA: What a bummer for Portland! This one stings hard. The problem is, Portland just doesn't have a strong business base, and the city seems to be hit part
37 AirframeAS: They may be full for the next three weeks, but remember...fares fluctuate (sp?) daily.... If LH is making fares heavily discounted (for example), the
38 LAXdude1023: No no. This will actually give DL quite a boost. Since DL now operates the only two transoceanic flights from PDX, I imagine that PDX will be come a
39 TF39: What a bummer. I love hearing the lovely sound in the late morning-early afternoon of the 340 over my house just SE shy of BTG One note here - the Por
40 Cschleic: It ran as a 340-600 for a few days in 2007 but that was just a substitution. There aren't any photos in the database. There's a thread that had photo
41 Usdcaguy: This is quite possible; we shouldn't forget that AMS provides almost as many connections as FRA on any given day and that Schiphol is one of the worl
42 Cubsrule: I do think it was a case of who was going to blink first, and the loss of LH will certainly improve the performance of the AMS flight. DL is in sort
43 SLCUT2777: The percentage of Canadians holding passports is roughly 3 times the percentage of Americans (over 60% vs.over 20% and I doubt the Western Hemisphere
44 Lhpdx: With all of this talks about Portland losing this serice, I'm really surprised that this had not made the local news.....................
45 HT: Still bookable on LH's website for random dates in October 2009; a/c is shown as being an A333, not A343. -HT
46 WILCO737: Maybe the system is a little slow? I don't know. but it would be bad if people are still able to book if the flight does not exist anymore. wilco737
47 MAH4546: Only Y and B fares are bookable. The rest has been zero'd out after September 13th.
48 Atlanta: It could be an interesting route for Condor. Is Condor still owned by LH? Does BA already serve Seattle? Atlanta
49 BA: No, Thomas Cook bought Lufthansa's stake recently. Yes, 13x weekly right now.[Edited 2009-07-04 12:48:47]
50 WILCO737: Condor is not LH anymore. There are still some crews of LH, but they can come back to LH mainline if needed. I have flown to PDX only once, but only
51 Lhpdx: Has anyone else heard anything about an official announcement beside the guy that started this tread?
52 MAH4546: Flight is zero'd out in all but Y and B fares after September 13th. That pretty much confirms it. The Y and B fares will be zero'd out shortly.
53 Doug_or: You know, people like to talk about how the flights available at SEA affect PDX and (vice vera), but I wonder how much it actually matters? I don't kn
54 BlatantEcho: As doug_or said, I sure as heck won't be flying to SEA to connect to Europe now. I guess I am resigned to take the DL flight to AMS, but if AMS is not
55 BigGSFO: I was on Sauvie Island earlier today and saw the LH flight climb out and turn north. Of course I pointed it it out to my friends and told them that th
56 MSYtristar: Ha, funny, I saw the inbound 343 from FRA yesterday while hiking up Stone Mountain near Atlanta and pointed it out to my brother. Do you think he car
57 StuckInCA: You mean that you'd never drive there or never connect there? A high speed rail link between the Seattle metro and Portland would sure be nice.
58 SANFan: What I'm wondering is, when LH started the SEA-FRA service at the end of March, 2008, was that the first official "notice" to PDX? There were those he
59 Pictues: Does no one read the news that states different from the opening message?????? this may not happen but any route is liable to be chopped of course bu
60 BlatantEcho: still fully bookable for november on lufthansa.com I have no sources other than a.net, can we get confirmation either way? if it was cut, I guess they
61 WILCO737: I just tried mid November to mid December and it works fine: Fluginformation Flug LH468 Abflug 10:05 am Mo 16 Nov Frankfurt, Frankfurt International,
62 SANFan: Huh? What do you mean? What "news that states different..."? There are a few things mentioned by others in this thread (see below) that support the s
63 HT: If I combine the FRA-PDX nonstop with a return flight via SEA/ORD/DEN (or vice versa); I get (discounted) fare class "M" displayed for flight LH 468
64 WILCO737: Does it make any difference? I must say, I am not familiar with booking classes, as I mostly travel standby. But the flight shows up as LH468/469. Do
65 SANFan: I was just asking in light of Mark's post: Since I still don't know the sources of any of these availability searches -- a reservation system such as
67 Dreamflight767: One of my colleagues was scheduled on this flight for a trip in October. Last week LH contacted him to provide his new travel itinerary (which takes h
68 Yyzflyboy: Don't forget you also have PDX to YVR to efficiently connect to a host of international cities too - ICN, TPE, HKG, FRA, LHR, and AMS to name a few.
69 BlatantEcho: Yeah, the real questions will be do PDX-AMS and connect onward, or do PDX-ORD and connect from there. I think it will be worth it to fly to ORD or sim
70 RwSEA: DL's 767 service is quite poor, but I still think it's preferrable to connecting at ORD/IAD/JFK/ATL/EWR, etc. Not only is the flying time much shorte
71 LambertMan: Lets go over the chain of events here: October 15, 2007: NW announces Portland-Amstedam November 5, 2007: LH announces Seattle-Frankfurt I would ventu
72 FlyPBA: here is a link to a news article today Lufthansa drops direct flights to Frankfurt from Portland http://portland.bizjournals.com/port.../2009/07/06/da
73 FlyPBA: and ... http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...ufthansa_to_end_portlandfrank.html
74 SANFan: How about that, A.netters. We've had a several-day discussion on the topic BEFORE the announcement, thanks to Airevents. That's what this board is all
75 Alexinwa: Washington State is in the running for a big sum of money that will do just that. High-speed rail between Vancouver, BC and Eugene. It would replace
76 WILCO737: So now it is official I flew that route in 2006 and it was nice. LONG, but nice. And with Internet on board Yeah the good 'ol days wilco737
77 EVA777SEA: Seeing how this has yet to happen despite it being rumored here for years, and the fact that it is still around in these tough economic times, tell m
78 Atlanta: If BA already serves SEA, then I highly doubt BA will serve LHR from PDX also. Atlanta
79 Viscount724: To most points in Europe, a connection via SEA is at least 1,000 miles shorter and a few hours faster than a connection via the other hubs you mentio
80 CGKings317: While I am personally sad to see this go as a PDXer, I am not surprised since the economic and business situation both locally and globally is in the
81 Doug_or: The times I've checked on this flight economy seemed alright, but front cabin bookings seemed consistently light. I have no idea how overall yields a
82 ZKNBS: Bingo! My thoughts exactly. The PDX market is too small to support two European nonstop flights. The Port effectively killed this flight by that sing
83 Aaway: These stats were published in two recent issues of the Portland Business Journal: From July 6th, 2009: International passenger traffic at Portland Int
84 Viscount724: It's strange that a Canadian city like YYC with a metro population of 1.2 million, about half the PDX metro population of 2.2 million, can support 5
85 Aaway: Not really that strange at all - geographic isolation from other large metro areas and oil industry income.
86 Yegbey01: Well... 1) Canadians travel abroad way more often than Americans 2) YYC is the gateway to the rockies - ski and summer mountain destination 3) many o
87 Humberside: 6 carriers, there is GSM as well weekly to LGW/MAN/GLA/DUB, all shared with YVR
88 Burkhard: What I don't get is why airlines don't like ( or it is not economical ) to fly 2 or three times a week if demand isn't there to fill more planes. 3 ti
89 Hywel: When the route first got launched, I seem to remember reading that a main factor was the cargo, and LH were making most of their profit off cargo on t
90 SLCUT2777: Keep in mind the percentage of Canadians holding passports is perhaps 3 times or greater what the percentage of Americans, and Canadians are much mor
91 Doug_or: There's no convenience to that. A non stop is more convenient than a connection, but [almost] no one is going to change the date of travel just to ge
92 Cubsrule: As someone who lives in a city with relatively infrequent nonstops in a variety of markets, I disagree completely. Getting a nonstop both ways is the
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I just flew into PDX on Wednesday and saw LH's A343 sitting there, shiny as ever...
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