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Alaska And 100 Seats  
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

Hello,

I've wondered extensively if Alaska Air Group has considered operating an aircraft in the 100 seat category. Unbeknownst if there's even a realistic market for that capacity in the AS/QX system

I've heard extensively about the airlines commitment to aircraft in the 738 size range as they move away from the 73G/ 734 platform.

Seems like the 737s are well suited to most of their operations. And in lower capacity markets such as PDX, Horizon's smaller aircraft capacity seem to fill-in rather nicely at non-peak times of day, or even on specific routes during the year hence the bay area entirely operated by QX now.

Is AAG in a financial position for such an expenditure to bring a new jet on property? Nonetheless one would have to acknowledge that an airline in AS position would probably be reluctant to spend money on new capital costs.

Personally I wonder if utilizing the Q400's on routes over 500 miles actually provides the Air Group an efficiency platform superior to having a regional jet on property.

Thoughts?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

IIRC, the F28's were 100 seaters....Or were they 90 seaters? I forgot. But why would the AAG want a 100 seater when they are going more towards the Q400s and 738 platforms, while some 73G's were phased out of the fleet?


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2821 times:
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Horizon's F28s were showing 69 seats. Not sue if that was the -1000 or -4000s. Wasn't much difference betwen the two though. Sure miss hearing those quiet jets LOL!


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2813 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
IIRC, the F28's were 100 seaters....Or were they 90 seaters?

Absolute maximum seating on the F28 was 85, and that was at very tight 29 in. seat pitch which no scheduled carriers used. 75 was the more typical maximum seating.

KL's F70s which are about one seat row longer than the F28 have 80 seats and that's at about 31 in. pitch.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2800 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 2):
Horizon's F28s were showing 69 seats.

Oh, my bad! It has been a long while since QX had these.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2790 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 2):
Horizon's F28s were showing 69 seats. Not sue if that was the -1000 or -4000s. Wasn't much difference betwen the two though. Sure miss hearing those quiet jets LOL!

I flew on those quite a bit from BOI to SEA and PDX. They were nice, fast, and Noisy.
Best thing was the QX Snack BAsket which always featured "Hazel Nuts" from Oregon, and a bottle of wine from Ste. MIchelle or Ste. Chapelle Vinyards


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31096 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2790 times:
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Quoting Flyboy80 (Thread starter):
I've wondered extensively if Alaska Air Group has considered operating an aircraft in the 100 seat category.

I would think this is unlikely. I know many people in AS' Fleet Management and Revenue Management departments and their studies have shown that their 157-seat 737-800 is the optimal plane for their system, with trip costs very similar to their 124-seat 737-700, but offering more revenue potential thanks to the 4 extra First Class and 29 extra Economy Class seats. I have heard that AS have subsequently changed their remaining 73G orders over to 738s.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2769 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 5):
I flew on those quite a bit from BOI to SEA and PDX.

I did one on the SEA-GEG.

Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 5):
They were nice, fast, and Noisy.

That, they were... they were super cool, IMO!

Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 5):
Best thing was the QX Snack BAsket which always featured "Hazel Nuts" from Oregon, and a bottle of wine from Ste. MIchelle or Ste. Chapelle Vinyards

Oooo those were good times. Sad to see those not around anymore.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
I would think this is unlikely.

 checkmark  I agree. I believe QX is extremely happy with their Q400's.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
I have heard that AS have subsequently changed their remaining 73G orders over to 738s.

I think you are right. As much as I love the 73G, it is sad to see them not getting anymore after phasing out two of them so far, but good for AS for getting the 738's.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

About 2 years ago there was internal discussion of possibly getting a 3rd
party to operate 100 seaters for AS in markets where QX jets don't have enough
capacity but aren't profitable enough for AS jets to operate.
This was before oil skyrocketed and the economy tanked so it hasn't been pursued
actively for some time.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2553 times:
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In my opinion, if there was even an outside chance that AS would get anything like a 100-seat aircraft, I think they would go for the 737-600.

User currently offlineSuprazachair From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2481 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
In my opinion, if there was even an outside chance that AS would get anything like a 100-seat aircraft, I think they would go for the 737-600.

Not a chance, unless losing money is the goal. E-Jets or C-Series would be the top contenders, but I don't really see it happening at all, so its all moot.


User currently offlineJetboy319 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

I think a 100 seat A/C would be perfect for AAG, operated by Horizon which obviously has lower costs than Alaska. Consider an Embraer 190 in a dual-class configuration (9FC/88CC). They are a supremely comfortable aircraft in both cabins and are incredibly versatile. Air Canada uses the 190 on SEA-YYZ, which is a good indication of the range capabilities. While Alaska can and does provide marginal frequencies to cities like DFW, ORD etc, a 190 could fill in the gap during periods when loads are thinner and could also be a great aircraft to launch new routes with. Of course, this would require a lot of thinking outside the box and will not likely happen.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
offering more revenue potential thanks to the 4 extra First Class and 29 extra Economy Class seats.

This is true only if those extra seats are actually purchased. The four extra seats in First Class go to complimentary upgrades (as do the majority of other FC seats) more times than not. Alaska should have no more than 12 First Class seats on any airplane. Until they do, there is no incentive to make it a true premium product and likewise there will be complaints about the lack of a real First Class Product. My  twocents  Now flame away!  duck 


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2353 times:
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Quoting Suprazachair (Reply 10):
Not a chance, unless losing money is the goal. E-Jets or C-Series would be the top contenders, but I don't really see it happening at all, so its all moot.

Oh I know...I only thought of the 737-600 due to fleet commonality, over the E-jets or C-series jets.

Has the -600 been a money-losing airplane? I don't know. Ask Westjet.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2301 times:



Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 8):

Wasn't that Republic trying to do business with AS?



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31096 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
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Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 11):
This is true only if those extra seats are actually purchased. The four extra seats in First Class go to complimentary upgrades (as do the majority of other FC seats) more times than not.

Depends on the routes. AS transcons, for example, often sell out the First Class cabin which makes the complimentary upgrades harder. And even if the F seats go out at the cost of an Economy seat, that still frees up an Economy seat that can at times be re-sold. And if all the AS Mileage Plan elites have upgraded and there are still seats left, AS can get an extra $50+ by offering them to passengers at check-in.


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