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MH 91 Stopping In ARN And AMS...  
User currently offlinePanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 235 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

Hi all-
My sister is flying on MH 91 tonight from EWR to KUL, and was supposed to be connecting onto the MH 125 from KUL to PER. However, over the weekend we received an email from MH saying that the flight schedule had changed and the flight was now stopping in ARN and then AMS before heading onto KUL. Thus she will miss her connection and arrive in PER 24 hours late. When I asked for an explanation, I was told that "the airport in Stockholm is undergoing renovations and the plane cannot be refueled there and therefore needs to stop in Amsterdam as well." Sorry, but I find this very difficult to believe. We called MH and told them they needed to put her on VS or BA or CO to either LHR or CDG, and then she could make her original connection, but they have been very unhelpful. Can anyone shed any light A) on what the real story is behind the AMS stop, or B) what rights she has as a passenger re getting rerouted?

Thanks!
Nick

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

ARN runway 01L/19R is out of use until at least late July due construction work.
So ARN only have 2 runways of 2,500m active now. Which is too short for the heavy loaded B744's to KUL.

Therefore, MH91 is making a technical stop in AMS for refuelling only.
Pax cannot get off the plane, since it will only have a rather short groundtime at AMS.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

btw, rules of re-routing of a ticket all depend on the flexibility and farebase of her ticket.
Cheap Economy class tickets are usually non-flexible and are not endorsable to other carriers/rerouting. A technical stop is in this case unavoidable, so MH have the full right to do so.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineEBGARN From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

I think this whole matter could have been handled in a much better way by MH. The renovation (new pavement) of 01L/19R has probably been planned for years, with full information to the airlines. Until early June, MH used a B777 which easily could have used the other runways. They had a a low-fares campaign before they switched to a 744, and I guess it successfully filled their cabins.

TG can still fly their 744 out of ARN non-stop to BKK, thanks to a shorter route and likely lighter loads.

Couldn't MH have kept the 777 for a little longer? Why on earth did they wait this long to inform the passengers - They should have known this all along.



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User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5432 times:



Quoting EBGARN (Reply 3):
I think this whole matter could have been handled in a much better way by MH. The renovation (new pavement) of 01L/19R has probably been planned for years, with full information to the airlines. Until early June, MH used a B777 which easily could have used the other runways. They had a a low-fares campaign before they switched to a 744, and I guess it successfully filled their cabins.

TG can still fly their 744 out of ARN non-stop to BKK, thanks to a shorter route and likely lighter loads.

Couldn't MH have kept the 777 for a little longer? Why on earth did they wait this long to inform the passengers - They should have known this all along.

If that's all true, then I agree, MH did not handle this correctly at all. However, as Airbuseric says, a lot of it depends on the fare purchased. Seeing how most of us purchase the cheapest we can, that makes it difficult to grant flexibility on the part of the airline. Tough position for your sister.


User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

They still have to transport her to PER if she purchased EWR-PER ticket on them even if it's 24h later, don't they? And if she has appropriate Travel Insurance, she might even be able to get to PER faster with AirAsia X or someone else if she has proper coverage.

User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

Also JL will operate B744 to ARN later this month and in August on charterflights from/to Japan. These flights can easily depart from the other, 2,500m length runways.


"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineDAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5288 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 5):
They still have to transport her to PER if she purchased EWR-PER ticket on them even if it's 24h later, don't they?

But maybe the pax has stuff to do and can't afford being 24h late due to poor management of a situation by the carrier. As a revenue pax for the airline, regardless of the type of fare, they should try and get her to PER on the same day!



Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5261 times:



Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 6):
Also JL will operate B744 to ARN later this month and in August on charterflights from/to Japan. These flights can easily depart from the other, 2,500m length runways.

Easily no, but with full pax and no freight yes.

ARN-NRT is 4423nm, ARN-BKK is 4483nm, ARN-KUL is 5073nm.

With a full load and some freight, MH needs around 125tons of fuel for KUL. The max that will go off the two runways today is about 110tons. That is sufficient for BKK and so obviously NRT with no freight.
I have no idea why MH did not keep the B777 at ARN. The B777 can get off the short runway on most days for KUL, and could do it with no freight no problem.
I blame lack of foresight at MH planning. They knew about this closure in Feb, and changed to the B744 on 4 Jun, two weeks before the runway closed!


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5238 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 8):
Easily no, but with full pax and no freight yes.

As it's a charter no cargo is on the JL 744's. And full pax/baggage, no problem for 2,500m asphalt.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineBPS3458 From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

What is/was the outcome ? Assume your sister was booked at MH's expense in to the Pan Pacific al KUL (great hotel) while she waits for her connecting flight to PER.

Cheers from Brisbane,

Peter


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4685 times:
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Why MH stops in AMS ?? It would be shorter route if they would stop for refuel in HEL...


Flying high and low
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2303 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4525 times:



Quoting PanAm747LHR (Thread starter):
We called MH and told them they needed to put her on VS or BA or CO to either LHR or CDG, and then she could make her original connection, but they have been very unhelpful.

I don't think telling them what they need to do will make any difference, as MH is obviously in their full rights to make an unscheduled fuel stop. I think it would be better to inform them that this will give you serious problems, and ask if they can come up with a solution on how she could get their earlier.

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 7):
But maybe the pax has stuff to do and can't afford being 24h late due to poor management of a situation by the carrier.

Airplanes are delayed every day. If you're flying around the world you should honestly make some room for unscheduled delays.

Quoting Teme82 (Reply 11):
It would be shorter route if they would stop for refuel in HEL...

With no crew base, no MH representatives, no maintenance contracts, etc?



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

MH is discontinuing EWR-ARN-KUL altogether:

Quote:
We r stopping flights to/from Stockholm & NY Oct'09. Pls contact ur agents, or us KL at 1300883000, LA 18005529264, Stockholm 08-50530050

We'll also maintain our Stockholm office. Customers can cont' to Stockholm via Amsterdam with our code share partner KLM.

We r notifyng the affected. Tkts issued b4 today for KL-NY/Stockholm v.versa & Stockholm-NY v.versa eligible for a refund without fees

http://twitter.com/MAS via http://twitter.com/airlineroute


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4223 times:



Quoting Teme82 (Reply 11):
Why MH stops in AMS ?? It would be shorter route if they would stop for refuel in HEL...



Quoting RedChili (Reply 12):
With no crew base, no MH representatives, no maintenance contracts, etc?

Of the European destinations they fly to, Istanbul is closest along their Great Circle routing...according to GCM it adds 12.7% to the ARN-KUL nonstop. FRA adds 19.5%, and AMS adds 21.3%. So my thoughts are that AMS is just set up best...ground staff already on around the time MH91 is supposed to come in from ARN, etc.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

Retimed flight Stockholm to Kuala Lumpur

We regret to inform our customers that MH 091 will be making a technical stop in AMSTERDAM for refuelling on our ARLANDA KUALA LUMPUR route during the period from 26 June-31 July 2009.

This is due to the main runway at ARLANDA AIRPORT being closed for maintenance works and we are consequently using the shorter runway which is subject to weight restrictions.

The new estimated arrival time in KUALA LUMPUR will be approximately 1035LT (previously 0630) local time. We will offer our passengers dayroom in Kuala Lumpur if no international connection is available for them. Please contact our Reservations Department at info@nordicmalaysia.se for further assistance.

We apologise for the inconvenience.


From the MH wesite....


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3607 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting RedChili (Reply 12):
With no crew base, no MH representatives, no maintenance contracts, etc?

Hmm... true...



Flying high and low
User currently offlineKokolojc From Indonesia, joined Jan 2007, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

This is true. Myself and family are flying MH on July 9 from EWR to CGK and I called MH and they confirmed that our flight will stop at Arlanda and Schipol thus delaying our connection flight from Kuala Lumpur to CGK. We supposed to arrive at 10:10AM in CGK but due to the situations they have we are arriving at 14:55PM.

What I don't understand is that why can't they just re-fuel in Stockholm instead of taking a short hop to Schipol....hmmmm.....I wonder why....



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User currently offlineKokolojc From Indonesia, joined Jan 2007, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3167 times:



Quoting Kokolojc (Reply 17):

Never mind...its because of the weight restriction and the short runways they are using in stockholm



737 is the sexiest aircraft Boeing ever produced !
User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2846 times:



Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 2):
btw, rules of re-routing of a ticket all depend on the flexibility and farebase of her ticket.
Cheap Economy class tickets are usually non-flexible and are not endorsable to other carriers/rerouting. A technical stop is in this case unavoidable, so MH have the full right to do so.

That is correct. However, most tickets are non-endorsable, even most of the fully flexible tickets (technically). However, airlines are much more willing to endorse these high yield tickets as these are people that pay a lot of money for their tickets and expect a high level of service. You can't tell a F passenger that he is delayed 24 h without having the option of putting him on another carrier. It's all about $ in the end.. If the airline wanted to endorse a non-endorsable ticket, its not a problem, it's just about the willingness to do so and what the circumstances are. Rules are rules but rules are meant to be broken and they will be in the right circumstances.

So, if your friend paid 600$ (for example) for EWR-PER, MH is unlikely to want to switch them to another carrier as it costs MH money to do so, especially if it were in the form of a FIM as the cost of the ticket is about 80% of a Y fare, which would be more than the cost of the ticket...



...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
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